kingzam
Destrier
Posts: 56
Karma: 51
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Post by kingzam on Feb 9, 2017 6:24:07 GMT -5
I really feel this is very wrong. I got two Lancelots, 5000 gold a piece, nearly 100 dollars spent, actually upgrading them a little did easily take it to 100 dollars, they are slow, so not like they can dart in and dart out of danger, very susceptible to death button, and once damaged it's just a quick matter of time. This really shows the aptitude of the development team to forget that this premium bot's only advantage was its shield, so they lowered it. To me this has turned into the essence of the game, lowering bots power or health or making bots obsolete altogether while mm places you in with tt players, IF, you can do "reasonable well". Do developers even hear the complaints of people? Do they really understand why so many people took up tanking (because their 8/8's can't compete)? But honestly, do they even care? Why is my 350k average damage put in with 630k average damage players? Their guru god, Andrian, even said that the Lancelot was actually better with a thunder and not the ancile, I agree, just two medium weapons and a weakened shield makes it a big pile of expensive junk. Spent money on bots just to see them useless, I for one am tired of it.
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Post by Dredd77 on Feb 9, 2017 7:43:26 GMT -5
I'm sorry if you equate a 10% debuff to "useless." To each their own, I suppose. I take the approach that the game- like literally every other game in existence- is subject to buffs and nerfs as development learns and adjusts. "They should have known this in testing" isn't entirely unfair, but it's not entirely fair either. You can't expect a small group of people to be able to figure everything out through internal testing, once it goes wide to a massive playerbase.
Magic: the Gathering- no slouch in the R&D department, struggles with the same issue.
I understand seeing something you valued getting slightly less valuable can be frustrating. You might be better off going in to any potential future transactions with the expectation that things may- and often will- change.
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Post by blognio on Feb 9, 2017 7:44:03 GMT -5
I may not have a lancelot, but I feel like you are right. The Lancelot's shield breaks apart one by one, but then one the first breaks, they other only cover a little part of it, making you able to shoot even with the shield. I may be wrong, who knows?
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Post by duckdecoy on Feb 9, 2017 8:07:31 GMT -5
The shield bots were way stronger than the three new Wild Wwest bots. To make the WW bots more attractive for future sales, Pix has to dial back the HP (and desirability) of last year's hot favorites.
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IRON Mechhuntr. Amazon.
Destrier
Posts: 114
Karma: 92
Platform: Multiple
Clan: IRON (Amazon)
League: Champion
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Heichi
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Post by IRON Mechhuntr. Amazon. on Feb 9, 2017 8:09:15 GMT -5
I must admit, once mm changed and I started to come across ancelots for the first time I was pretty intimidated by them. It didn't take long to realise that, actually, if I've got one of my Orkan griffs handy I can pretty much make it disappear in a puff of smoke without breaking a sweat. Or max level hyrda/spiral it to death at my leisure from the safety of the bar, which has the added value of the irritation factor when they realise their expensive bot is being quickly chewed up by what should be crappy weapons.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 9, 2017 10:18:36 GMT -5
At least they fixed the ancile double damage bug, so this is offset some on the ancilot.
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✦SmokeJα✦
Destrier
Posts: 50
Karma: 28
Pilot name: SmokeJα
Platform: iOS
Clan: Core
League: Master
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Lance
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Post by ✦SmokeJα✦ on Feb 9, 2017 11:51:05 GMT -5
I really feel this is very wrong. I got two Lancelots, 5000 gold a piece, nearly 100 dollars spent, actually upgrading them a little did easily take it to 100 dollars, they are slow, so not like they can dart in and dart out of danger, very susceptible to death button, and once damaged it's just a quick matter of time. This really shows the aptitude of the development team to forget that this premium bot's only advantage was its shield, so they lowered it. To me this has turned into the essence of the game, lowering bots power or health or making bots obsolete altogether while mm places you in with tt players, IF, you can do "reasonable well". Do developers even hear the complaints of people? Do they really understand why so many people took up tanking (because their 8/8's can't compete)? But honestly, do they even care? Why is my 350k average damage put in with 630k average damage players? Their guru god, Andrian, even said that the Lancelot was actually better with a thunder and not the ancile, I agree, just two medium weapons and a weakened shield makes it a big pile of expensive junk. Spent money on bots just to see them useless, I for one am tired of it. I feel you on that. I get it, that games will adjust an such from time to time. But the more I think of my 5 Lance investment and see Pix finally confess (or someone got the confession) they nerfed ny bots on the down-low with update 2.5 really pisses me off. (Was not mentioned they would do this in the update release notes!)I knew something was wrong when that update hit.. and further more, they mucked up the 360 circular walk rotation that has made Lances even more of a sitting duck trying to two step away from a ammo hit! Ok so you got me in the pocket book over $200... I'll just finish the slow burn weapon max. You got my investment in your product to better this game for everyone; it's how I saw my contribution trade off to spending my hard earned monies. Now FIX the damn game and stop depreciating my damn bots!! Bc I surely will NOT Invest in half-「bum-bum」 developed new ideas that your trying to sell off as the new flavor of the year!! I don't want to hear "get over it". I run a clan in this game, I'm one of the reasons why ppl wants that new Hummer with shinny rims and a phat-「bum-bum」 system; I own 5!!!! (Open letter to Pix if u reading this)
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aussieds
Destrier
Posts: 20
Karma: 7
Pilot name: DS [RUIN]
Platform: iOS
Clan: RUIN
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Post by aussieds on Feb 9, 2017 15:28:31 GMT -5
Give them 1 star in the App Store and say why, or ask for a refund
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Post by Thunderkiss on Feb 9, 2017 15:39:42 GMT -5
I really feel this is very wrong. I got two Lancelots, 5000 gold a piece, nearly 100 dollars spent, actually upgrading them a little did easily take it to 100 dollars, they are slow, so not like they can dart in and dart out of danger, very susceptible to death button, and once damaged it's just a quick matter of time. This really shows the aptitude of the development team to forget that this premium bot's only advantage was its shield, so they lowered it. To me this has turned into the essence of the game, lowering bots power or health or making bots obsolete altogether while mm places you in with tt players, IF, you can do "reasonable well". Do developers even hear the complaints of people? Do they really understand why so many people took up tanking (because their 8/8's can't compete)? But honestly, do they even care? Why is my 350k average damage put in with 630k average damage players? Their guru god, Andrian, even said that the Lancelot was actually better with a thunder and not the ancile, I agree, just two medium weapons and a weakened shield makes it a big pile of expensive junk. Spent money on bots just to see them useless, I for one am tired of it. I don't think you know what you're talking about in the slightest, or, alternatively, you aren't as a good a pilot as you thought you were. Either way, as they sit now, Lancelots are still beasts. The fault doesn't lie with the bot.
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Post by blognio on Feb 9, 2017 16:00:51 GMT -5
Everyone fears lancelots! Except for dbs
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 18:44:48 GMT -5
Everyone fears lancelots! Except for dbs Also add in Trident Fury.
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Post by moody on Feb 9, 2017 20:59:57 GMT -5
I got my lance shortly before this nerf. I thought it was fragile already.
In the field my Galahads survive a lot longer, the lance shield should (each three parts) be as strong as a galahads shield, not weaker.
At level 8 the lance is actually doing some good, but It isn't doing a 3/1 trade-off by any means.
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kingzam
Destrier
Posts: 56
Karma: 51
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Post by kingzam on Feb 9, 2017 23:11:35 GMT -5
[/quote]I don't think you know what you're talking about in the slightest, or, alternatively, you aren't as a good a pilot as you thought you were. Either way, as they sit now, Lancelots are still beasts. The fault doesn't lie with the bot.[/quote]
I think the topic was mainly about money spent on bots - geps, rogs, lances etc.. only to see them nerfed, weapons nerfed etc. As far as the lancelot being a beast.. interesting, since so many people have resorted to pins/pinatas/orkans etc.. and tridents, the lancelot generally is a big slow sitting duck, like a previous poster had mentioned, even the turning and go motion has been exploited. The only thing this thing has is its shield, once the shield is depleted, doesn't take long at all to get knocked out. Also interesting that these guys that disagree on something have to attack the person posting even when the subject has been discussed many times by people complaining about buying premium gold bots only to see them downgraded or in fact made obsolete altogether. Scary lancelot?, lol I'll go face to face with one with a galahad, least it has some speed and mobility, and take the damn thing out. Heck a leo will take it out if he is set up right.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 10, 2017 12:46:18 GMT -5
I got my lance shortly before this nerf. I thought it was fragile already. In the field my Galahads survive a lot longer, the lance shield should (each three parts) be as strong as a galahads shield, not weaker. At level 8 the lance is actually doing some good, but It isn't doing a 3/1 trade-off by any means. I have noticed my gal lasts longer that my ancilot as well. I think it is 3 things- 1) the speed of the gal definitely improves it's survivability...great bot, 2) a lance seems to have a target painted on it. I draw 2 or 3 reds every time I field my lance (which does make it a great distraction), and 3) my play style is different with my lance- I use this bot to take and defend the highly contested beacons or to camp the red spawn to allow my team to get some of the remote beacons. You put these 3 things together and I burn my lance pretty quickly. Is it worth the 2x Au costs compared to the gal? I think so. It does what I use it for really well. Back to the OPs main point, and I am not trying to defend Pix, but in all MMOs that involve multiple classes (bots) with a large choice in weapons, there is ALWAYS ongoing rebalancing. Nerfs and buffs should be expected. It does suck when your shiny new bot takes a hit. That is a risk you take though when spending real $. It may get better or worse than what you originally bought. I dont think this particular change makes a huge difference though. Especially if you run a ancile on it since this just had the double-damage bug fixed.
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Post by Heishiro on Feb 10, 2017 23:06:53 GMT -5
people complain that Lance is OP, PX nerf the shield 10% Lance users complain that it is too SLOW! can we get 10% speed buff?
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whitecrow666
GI. Patton
Posts: 144
Karma: 36
Pilot name: whitecrow666
Platform: Android
Clan: 2017 war Gods
League: Gold
Favorite robot: Gareth
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Post by whitecrow666 on Feb 11, 2017 7:22:36 GMT -5
I was playing springfield and i killed Lancelot 1v1 with a Gareth with level 9 and 8 Molots.
It could not touch me.
I felt sad for the Orkin Lacelot which is like 7400 worth gold .
if i had video that you would all die laughting.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Feb 11, 2017 9:24:30 GMT -5
I don't think you know what you're talking about in the slightest, or, alternatively, you aren't as a good a pilot as you thought you were. Either way, as they sit now, Lancelots are still beasts. The fault doesn't lie with the bot.[/quote] I think the topic was mainly about money spent on bots - geps, rogs, lances etc.. only to see them nerfed, weapons nerfed etc. As far as the lancelot being a beast.. interesting, since so many people have resorted to pins/pinatas/orkans etc.. and tridents, the lancelot generally is a big slow sitting duck, like a previous poster had mentioned, even the turning and go motion has been exploited. The only thing this thing has is its shield, once the shield is depleted, doesn't take long at all to get knocked out. Also interesting that these guys that disagree on something have to attack the person posting even when the subject has been discussed many times by people complaining about buying premium gold bots only to see them downgraded or in fact made obsolete altogether. Scary lancelot?, lol I'll go face to face with one with a galahad, least it has some speed and mobility, and take the damn thing out. Heck a leo will take it out if he is set up right.[/quote] Whatever, I have 3 and I'm not unhappy, even post nerf.
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Post by petevb on Feb 11, 2017 11:17:56 GMT -5
I take the approach that the game- like literally every other game in existence- is subject to buffs and nerfs as development learns and adjusts. "They should have known this in testing" isn't entirely unfair, but it's not entirely fair either. You can't expect a small group of people to be able to figure everything out through internal testing, once it goes wide to a massive playerbase. Magic: the Gathering- no slouch in the R&D department, struggles with the same issue. I understand seeing something you valued getting slightly less valuable can be frustrating. You might be better off going in to any potential future transactions with the expectation that things may- and often will- change. I fully agree that the expectation is "things change", and that today's overpowered weapons will become tomorrow's benchwarmers. I take a less charitable view as to why this is, however... I believe it's largely by design. The game is monitized by purchases and especially upgrades, but once a player maxes a set of bots their incentive to do either is dramatically reduced... Introduction of new bots, weapons and constant rebalancing of both creates that incentive. It's called "churn", and it's a clear strategy. One could argue that the game would get boring if it didn't change, but Pix is clearly going beyond that IMHO. You're welcome to complain about it, but I'd also suggest saving your $100 next time- it's going to happen again.
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Post by Dredd77 on Feb 11, 2017 11:34:54 GMT -5
I take the approach that the game- like literally every other game in existence- is subject to buffs and nerfs as development learns and adjusts. "They should have known this in testing" isn't entirely unfair, but it's not entirely fair either. You can't expect a small group of people to be able to figure everything out through internal testing, once it goes wide to a massive playerbase. Magic: the Gathering- no slouch in the R&D department, struggles with the same issue. I understand seeing something you valued getting slightly less valuable can be frustrating. You might be better off going in to any potential future transactions with the expectation that things may- and often will- change. I fully agree that the expectation is "things change", and that today's overpowered weapons will become tomorrow's benchwarmers. I take a less charitable view as to why this is, however... I believe it's largely by design. The game is monitized by purchases and especially upgrades, but once a player maxes a set of bots their incentive to do either is dramatically reduced... Introduction of new bots, weapons and constant rebalancing of both creates that incentive. It's called "churn", and it's a clear strategy. One could argue that the game would get boring if it didn't change, but Pix is clearly going beyond that IMHO. You're welcome to complain about it, but I'd also suggest saving your $100 next time- it's going to happen again. Good points, petevb. Worth noting that even a player with maxed bots, without any incentive or interest whatsoever in upgrading, still provides Pixo with a valuable and vital service. When I used to own my game store, I bought it from someone who hated having non-paying customers in the store (sadly, a not uncommon approach in the industry). His feeling was that paying customers take care of the overhead, but that this wasn't a library. I took the opposite approach. I knew that giving the appearance of a bustling, vibrant store would make it a place folks would want to come to. That positive atmosphere would in turn encourage others and, ultimately, result in increased sales. Even if someone never bought anything in my store (and there were a few), they still were every bit as welcome. Maxed out non-paying players, at the bare minimum, provide opponents for paying customers. And a path of aspiration for those coming to the game. Certainly innovation and development will keep the "churn" going, I absolutely agree. I see them as expansions for games, like Magic: the Gathering. On the point as to whether or not Pix engages in a deliberate buff/debuff cycle as a way to stimulate monetary action by the playerbase, though, I am a little bit more skeptical.
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Post by petevb on Feb 11, 2017 12:33:38 GMT -5
On the point as to whether or not Pix engages in a deliberate buff/debuff cycle as a way to stimulate monetary action by the playerbase, though, I am a little bit more skeptical. - Plasma weapons were introduced, making bullet weapons obsolete.
- Shields and the Rhino were introduced, nerfing energy weapons and making other heavies obsolete.
- Heavies got a speed buff and more shield bots were introduced, making Rhinos and old mediums obsolete and Fury/ Griffin dominant.
- The Aphid was buffed, making other light weapons nearly obsolete.
- The Ancile was buffed, limiting Aphid and rocket weapon effectiveness.
If you play at the top of the game as I do these are not small changes that slowly work their way through the system. Most of these forced nearly complete revisions of top tier hangers. And there was clearly no attempt to "balance" these mechs and weapons before they were introduced. Plasma was massively overpowered upon introduction, both higher DPM and in a pre-physical shield era. Every Punisher and Molot disappeared from top. The Rhino was so dominant I ran four. Brit bots come out and suddenly I'm running zero Rhino, etc. There's a fairly obvious pattern here: introduce a new, overpowered, must have weapon or bot, wait a few months for everyone to get and upgrade them, then nerf them. It's predictable enough that many top players debate which upgrade/ nerf cycle to skip entirely. Do I really believe that Pix is so bad at balancing that they've repeatedly introduced new changes that completely unbalanced the game accidentally? Or do I think they realize that repeated "pumping" is in their financial interest? Stick around a while and catch a few cycles, then ask yourself the same question...
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Post by throwawayyyyy on Feb 11, 2017 13:38:54 GMT -5
I really feel this is very wrong. I got two Lancelots, 5000 gold a piece, nearly 100 dollars spent, actually upgrading them a little did easily take it to 100 dollars, they are slow, so not like they can dart in and dart out of danger, very susceptible to death button, and once damaged it's just a quick matter of time. This really shows the aptitude of the development team to forget that this premium bot's only advantage was its shield, so they lowered it. To me this has turned into the essence of the game, lowering bots power or health or making bots obsolete altogether while mm places you in with tt players, IF, you can do "reasonable well". Do developers even hear the complaints of people? Do they really understand why so many people took up tanking (because their 8/8's can't compete)? But honestly, do they even care? Why is my 350k average damage put in with 630k average damage players? Their guru god, Andrian, even said that the Lancelot was actually better with a thunder and not the ancile, I agree, just two medium weapons and a weakened shield makes it a big pile of expensive junk. Spent money on bots just to see them useless, I for one am tired of it. I totally understand your pain. But the thing is this game is more about tactics than brute force. A lance is a force to be reckoned with and it can kill every bot out there if taken one on one. But you have to be careful when running it. Even if it has a physical shield you still need to strafe and use cover to avoid damage. The 10% nerf is not that much if you are not reckless. I use a Lance to clear and hold beacons and that is what they should be used for. Take them out in the open like Springfield and even a Natasha can kill it with continuous salvos.
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kingzam
Destrier
Posts: 56
Karma: 51
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Post by kingzam on Feb 11, 2017 17:16:34 GMT -5
Wow, great insight petevb, that is invaluable information from someone who been around and see how things are all related when it comes to buffs and nerfs. I've heard similar from other "oldtimers" but you did a nice job spelling it out clearly.
I know one in particular that really is cautious when upgrading what bot or weapon, already warning me about tridents as he feels they very well may be on that list of nerfing soon.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 11, 2017 17:27:54 GMT -5
Listen fellas... 「cotton headed ninny muggins」 me and I will bleed cynicism. But I think some folks are reading entirely too much into Pixo's motivations. Yes, they are motivated by profits, but they also have a game to run for longer than a month. The cycle of buffs and nerfs is never ending... and then you get the 'squeaky wheel' effects. Adapt, or die, your choice. www.pcgamer.com/dvas-defense-matrix-to-get-a-small-buff-in-next-overwatch-patch/Great article, highlights a lot of the buff/nerf cycle that my main D.Va has gone through. Regardless of what they've done to her, I've continued to use her and have adapted to the changes. I gots mad skillz.
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