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Post by hyderier on Feb 7, 2017 1:19:21 GMT -5
So, it's kinda boring at the moment, with fast-paced light bot fighting almost a thing of the past.
How about changing the hangar slots slightly:
2 -> 1H+1L
3 -> 1H+1M+1L
4 -> 2H+2L
5 -> 3H+1M+1L
Numbers just examples, keeping total bot count the same. Of course this would have to be introduced with some kind of ability to get gold refunds (otherwise those who bought 5 maxed heavies would get ripped off).
Alternative, without need for refunds:
Instead of slots, you get slot points, which could go from 40 to 100, equal to current 2 to 5 slots. Then a heavy takes 20 slot points, medium takes 15 and light takes 10 (for example). So you could run 4H+2L or 3H+2M+2L instead of 5H heavies, for example. If necessary, limit max bots to 7 or even just 6. And of course these numbers are just examples.
Then it would be possible to sell the points in smaller increments too, like 5 at a time (with equal or even higher total Au cost). People like to progress, and this would give them more steady progress to max size hangar.
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Post by sonofsam on Feb 7, 2017 6:08:50 GMT -5
I've seen several threads similar to this and they have all confused me. I see Stalkers and Gary all the time and other than when they are dumb enough to run in front of my Tosh that I built just for the purpose of blasting cappers they still do quite well. This includes against my Griffins and Leos.
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Post by nocluevok on Feb 7, 2017 6:57:03 GMT -5
I've seen several threads similar to this and they have all confused me. I see Stalkers and Gary all the time and other than when they are dumb enough to run in front of my Tosh that I built just for the purpose of blasting cappers they still do quite well. This includes against my Griffins and Leos. I still run a mag/taran Gary expressly for capping. Half the battles I've been in it has largely been ignored... Until I'm standing on the red's home beacon 2 minutes in. Suddenly the red's rush to the center beacon becomes less of a priority. Far from useless, but disposable. |
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Post by frunobulax on Feb 7, 2017 7:42:32 GMT -5
I still run a mag/taran Gary expressly for capping. Half the battles I've been in it has largely been ignored... Until I'm standing on the red's home beacon 2 minutes in. Suddenly the red's rush to the center beacon becomes less of a priority. Far from useless, but disposable. Which levels do you play? I have been experimenting with a Gary recently, and made the opposite observation. I am rarely able to snatch even two beacons, unless I go on a suicide mission like center on Shenzen. Players tend to start more heavy robots with splash weapons than before, which make short work of my Gary. In the end I swapped it for another Leo. |
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Post by nocluevok on Feb 7, 2017 9:00:19 GMT -5
I still run a mag/taran Gary expressly for capping. Half the battles I've been in it has largely been ignored... Until I'm standing on the red's home beacon 2 minutes in. Suddenly the red's rush to the center beacon becomes less of a priority. Far from useless, but disposable. Which levels do you play? I have been experimenting with a Gary recently, and made the opposite observation. I am rarely able to snatch even two beacons, unless I go on a suicide mission like center on Shenzen. Players tend to start more heavy robots with splash weapons than before, which make short work of my Gary. In the end I swapped it for another Leo. Lvl 8 Grif 11 pins 11 Orkans Lvl 9 Grif 11 mags 11 Tarans Lvl 11 Gep 11 aphids Lvl 9 Gary 10 mag 10 Taran Lvl 6 Leo 10 mags 10 Thunder I have a lvl 8 Thunder Carnage that I swap out with the Leo now and then. I have no idea what level that puts me on. I just play what the MM throws at me. |
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Post by hyderier on Feb 7, 2017 12:34:17 GMT -5
I've seen several threads similar to this and they have all confused me. I see Stalkers and Gary all the time and other than when they are dumb enough to run in front of my Tosh that I built just for the purpose of blasting cappers they still do quite well. This includes against my Griffins and Leos. I don't have Gareths or Stalkers. I got one Gepard before MM change, but now it is just too squishy/slow (yes, slow), when faced with anything I normally run against, making it a too unreliable beacon capper (better use lvl9 Cossack). And it'll be a while before I can justify a spending my limited Au/WSP on light bots, because I still have just 4 hangar slots (currently saving for 5th). Fooling around with lights is just that, fooling around (unless it is tanking...). This is boring. I'd like the variety to be not fooling around (or tanking), simple as that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 12:51:16 GMT -5
Light bots were being used as brawlers in the old MM (hell, everything was). Now they have very distinct roles.
Gareth can stall and work on it's own while defending.
Stalker is pure harassment. Poke at every angle, make people see the red mist.
Gepard has been reduced to an aphid chucker, making it so that it's role is almost pure anti-heavy/camper.
Ag lights were meant to be inferior to premium bots, it's a conversation similar to running a golem over a Carnage or Galahad. Cossack is the last hope, cossack is love, cossack is life.
Pix has stated that they will have a far easier time balancing bots and weapons with the new MM once it truly settles, as each bot's performance now directly contributes to a player's placement opposed to just the bot/weapon level.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 15:02:50 GMT -5
Heavies, and especially Griffs are getting stupid boring. Bring lights and mediums back!
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Post by hyderier on Feb 7, 2017 16:04:38 GMT -5
Pix has stated that they will have a far easier time balancing bots and weapons with the new MM once it truly settles, as each bot's performance now directly contributes to a player's placement opposed to just the bot/weapon level. I agree with your post otherwise, but I think having light bots on the field (which is what this thread is about) is not a balancing issue. The problem with evaluating a player's performance on damage over many matches is, you can change bots between every battle if you want. Unless damage potential of current hangar is accounted for fully for each individual battle, the new MM can't handle changing bots. The core idea of this threads suggestion is, that no matter how MM changes, it's always viable to have diverse hangars (be it because you simply have slots where you can't have a heavy bot, or because you can have about same hangar power with light bots by being able to have more of them). |
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Post by Lionheart on Feb 7, 2017 16:19:04 GMT -5
I miss running light bots. It's as you say; we can cap beacons with them, but rarely defend them, and accomplish very little damage in many cases. In Gold, where apparently everyone plays now bey default at higher player level, the Stalker is my go to for a light bot, as a Gepard has a life expectancy of about 4 seconds, on a good day. Yet, I might as well equip nothing at all, as there's only so much damage you can do with just two light hard-points. I can be quite irritating, and grab a beacon or three, but I never achieve much damage.
The Gareth always seemed interesting to me, but I greatly dislike it/s lower health margin. From what I'm hearing though I may have to get one. Not sure what hope the lights have left.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Feb 7, 2017 17:18:04 GMT -5
I miss running light bots. It's as you say; we can cap beacons with them, but rarely defend them, and accomplish very little damage in many cases. In Gold, where apparently everyone plays now bey default at higher player level, the Stalker is my go to for a light bot, as a Gepard has a life expectancy of about 4 seconds, on a good day. Yet, I might as well equip nothing at all, as there's only so much damage you can do with just two light hard-points. I can be quite irritating, and grab a beacon or three, but I never achieve much damage. The Gareth always seemed interesting to me, but I greatly dislike it/s lower health margin. From what I'm hearing though I may have to get one. Not sure what hope the lights have left. IMO, the Gareth is the only light that can hold anywhere near its own with the big boys. Now, don't get me wrong, it aint gonna slug it out with a Lance... but if you play it smartly, it can take out just about anything. You may need help, or not, but you will deffo have to treat it like a light bot and always try to be able to inflict damage without receiving it. It IS fragile... but the shield helps A LOT. And the 64KMH at level 9... it's like an F16 compared to a c130 Gunship as far as the comparison between it and most Heavies. Again though, while yes you can fight with it, you CANNOT come at a heavy like you were one too... I have most success as a flanker/harasser/Red Home Beacon Stealer/anti-Stalker bot in my Gary. I used to take it to center a lot, on every map but Shen and PP. Now, with MM pitting me against all levels of bots / weapons, I prefer it to be either on the edges of the action, or running after the stalker that thinks it's getting my side/home beacon. |
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Post by sonofsam on Feb 7, 2017 17:31:05 GMT -5
I miss running light bots. It's as you say; we can cap beacons with them, but rarely defend them, and accomplish very little damage in many cases. In Gold, where apparently everyone plays now bey default at higher player level, the Stalker is my go to for a light bot, as a Gepard has a life expectancy of about 4 seconds, on a good day. Yet, I might as well equip nothing at all, as there's only so much damage you can do with just two light hard-points. I can be quite irritating, and grab a beacon or three, but I never achieve much damage. The Gareth always seemed interesting to me, but I greatly dislike it/s lower health margin. From what I'm hearing though I may have to get one. Not sure what hope the lights have left. If you run a Stalker or Gary right there really isn't much a heavy can do unless they surprise you. Gary is made to be a corner shooter with enough speed you can flee most splash damage from a Pinta/Ork. People want to hide behind the shield and run it like a heavy, these are the people I send back to their base very quickly. The biggest problem with the stalker is most hit the invisible too early and forget that they need to be behind cover again when it wears off so I make them go boom too. I have been on the wrong end of a skilled stalker/Gary pilot trust me if driven properly they are every bit as lethal as a DB Griffin. Maybe more so because you can disengage the Griffin. The light bot either kills you, holds you there until another enemy comes over and kills you, or annoys you until you try to disengage then it kills you. Don't blame the bots they are lethal in the right hands. Instead why don't you work on making yours the right hands. |
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Post by nocluevok on Feb 7, 2017 17:32:29 GMT -5
I miss running light bots. It's as you say; we can cap beacons with them, but rarely defend them, and accomplish very little damage in many cases. In Gold, where apparently everyone plays now bey default at higher player level, the Stalker is my go to for a light bot, as a Gepard has a life expectancy of about 4 seconds, on a good day. Yet, I might as well equip nothing at all, as there's only so much damage you can do with just two light hard-points. I can be quite irritating, and grab a beacon or three, but I never achieve much damage. The Gareth always seemed interesting to me, but I greatly dislike it/s lower health margin. From what I'm hearing though I may have to get one. Not sure what hope the lights have left. The Gareth has a shield that can absorb a good bit of the punishment. With the shield down, your left flank is somewhat protected. Right flank not so much... unless you're good at running backward. I can do it now running across the dam. I can take out a thunder carnage if I stay far enough away, or a plasma Grif head on. They often commit suicide so I don't get the kill, but who cares... They aren't in the battle anymore. |
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Post by jckidd on Feb 7, 2017 17:41:06 GMT -5
I have killed every type of robot in my orkin piñata gareth. Destriers up to lancelots. Play smart, hit and fade, ambush, flank and harass. It is not a brawler, but it is a killer.
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Post by Lionheart on Feb 7, 2017 19:57:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the tips, guys! That's actually quite helpful in my decision making going forward. I'm usually a pretty solid player with tactics and strategy, and I love having a good light beacon capper that will give the right skills a good fighting chance. Gareth, here I come. Well, eventually anyways when I earn the Au. Thanks again!  Pix is pretty good about releasing a robot for each class when they do it. I wonder what the next light will be. |
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Post by hyderier on Feb 8, 2017 1:47:11 GMT -5
So the concensus in this thread seems to be, there is 1 decently usable light bot (Gareth, but only if you pilot it better than average), one light bot with special role only (Stalker, but only if you are cut out for special ops). And then there is, of course, Destrier, which must exist as a starter bot, and can be sold for Ag ASAP (poor Destrier, I'd never sell mine...).
My conclusion: All other light bots are basically deceptions, decoys which will slow a newbie's progress. Use the hangar slot for something else, and you're better off.
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