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Post by Pilot Moby_dic on Jun 1, 2018 20:21:59 GMT -5
I left War Robots several months ago because I could not stand the cheating I was seeing. On top of that, the issues with pay to play, overpowered weapons and dashbots, match making, leagues, etc. made the game more stressful than fun so I bailed. I returned to check in on things to find that there have been changes, but nearly enough to correct the failures. So here is my rant on leagues and match making again, new for 2018. Cheating is unfair behavior or playing. Hacking is when someone modifies the game pieces to be better than as provided by the developer. I have only seen this 2 or 3 times where a robot or weapon does not behave the way it is supposed to. While I marvel at the effort and talent it takes, it's still cheating and should result in a player account being banned. Exploits are using some quirk of the game to gain an advantage over other players. Most people think of using exploits as just being creative and resourceful, but I have it from Pixonic that they consider this cheating. Essentially an exploiting player side steps the basic gameplay intended by the developers in order to gain an advantage for personal benefit. Tanking is considered to be an exploit and is a tool used by cheaters (Pixonic's definition) to participate in battles that give them an unfair advantage over other players. We have all seen Tanking being performed (assuming you are paying attention) and know the results. Tanking itself results in a player rating far below the capabilities of the hangar. This makes enemies hard to kill, games difficult to win and rewards, which are based on generating damage points, very challenging to earn. We have all seen this before. In fact I see evidence of it in EVERY game I play at Diamond 2 league level. EVERY one. Two examples are full hangars with very high level weapons one expects in Champion league, playing down several leagues below. Or, a single very high level robot and with weapons far beyond the players league rating. Alternatively, there are lower level robots with very high level weapons mounted. My personal favorite is a hangar full of dashbots mounting mk 2 weapons rated as Diamond. The process of tanking is easy to spot as well. Typical is players dropping out of a battle after half a minute or so. It's always upsetting to see that your team has shrunk to 3 players in about 3 minutes of play. Next would be players just standing around out of battle. Third is my favorite, where players cycle through their hangars to replace their robots in Deathmatch. The Deathmatch game has become the ultimate enabler for Tanking. So why is this thread here under Leagues? That is because the League system created this monster. As long as Pixonic stays with Leagues for match making, this will continue to be a problem with the game. Their fix is to allow players to report other players suspected of tanking, which they claim to investigate. Their response is to quarantine offending players in a penalty box called the Tanker's League. There is a better fix. I have called for a rating system in match making that is based on a hangar's power, not the player's average trophy count. Trophy count is based on a player's activity, which obviously can be manipulated. Weapons ratings are just that. They are unbiased. I propose two screens: one for the sum of all the weapons mounted and one for the levels. In the first screen, a hangar gets rated for it's combined damage capability. A player gets matched with players of similar capability regardless of their league rating. This way, Champion players can be in Diamond battles for fun and not be accused of seal clubbing because their hangars are no more powerful than everyone else's. An alternative would be to have the game AI downgrade a weapon's capabilities temporarily for the game level being played. That way a Level 12 weapon cannot do more damage than, say, a Level 9 weapon if in a Diamond league battle. This is how on-line MMORPG's even things out. Secondly, a player's hangar should be rated based on the maximum weapon or robot rating in the hangar. This insures that someone running a single Level 12 robot with Mk2 Level 12 weapons is only going to see players with Level 12 Mk2 weapons. This would also promote players upgrading their robots and equipment at the same pace. There would be no incentive to having very high level equipment in a hangar with lower stuff because they would be matched with players who may have entire hangars with higher level items. If Pixonic is committed to the League system, then add these changes to discourage cheating and exploits to make sure it works. I would add that once a player hits a certain League, all the restrictions come off, be it Master or Champion league. The problems I see are not at the upper tiers, it's in Diamond and Expert. You don't see it as much in Gold, but I do run across a few Gold level players who are obvious tankers running massively overpowered hangars. Lastly, I will tell you that I report EVERY tanker, or suspected Tanker I come across regardless of the team he's on. I send a screenshot and explanation to Pixonic tech support of why I think the player is a cheat. We should all do the same because that is the only way this mess gets cleaned up. This way we all have more fun, we still upgrade our robots and equipment, we still buy gold and keys while combating the pay-to-win culture that seems to dominate this game. Post in rants...I just wasted a minute of my life reading some of this.
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Post by acdcfan on Jun 1, 2018 20:22:58 GMT -5
Here is an interesting tidbit I was unaware of. I am constantly messaging Pixonic tech and they me and I recently found myself in the Penalty League for no reason I could see. I am not a tanker. I report tankers. I don't join games to quit them. Nor do I use Deathmatch to lose and lower my league rating. I do select which games I wish to join, because, face it, sometimes you absolutely have the wrong hangar for the random match you end up with. Before dropping into a match, you have the option to not join it. Sometimes, however, the stupid game drops you into one before you get a chance to refuse it. The previous documentation for the game gave you a chance to bail out of a game in the first few second if you decided not to play it. I can't remember the time interval, but it was enough for you to make that decision and it was very useful when you find yourself in a 2v6 match on the wrong side. Guess what, fans? That is no longer the case. Yessir, the rules have changed and I never saw the memo. You now have to play EVERY game. Not playing it means a tanked game on the server record. The server rules allow you to tank a few games before you get banished to the penalty league. Interestingly, I was doing just that and I triggered the algorithm and got sent to the Box. The good news that I exited after playing a few normal games without a hitch. So be warned, do not ditch any game. Once you hit "Battle" you are committed. And the worst thing about LPQ is that is still shrouded with secrecy... Still no any indication you're in it, until you notice dismal payout and long wait times. Once you're in, you ( not you specifically) don't know how many games you need to play to get out. Also there is no warning about skipping matches or modes. We all know about it, as people talk/talked about it. Pixnoic needs to address it and advise players who are in LPQ and how may games are required to get out it. Being in it and not knowing when you could be out is just not good enough
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maracas
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Post by maracas on Jun 2, 2018 14:45:24 GMT -5
honestly doesnt matter how much few players complain, or the 'definition' of pixonic.
pixonic throws something, players do something with it.
the current meta is ugly but working, gold league: bots are lvl 9-10, diamond is bots 10-12, expert and above is pretty much mk2... FAIR ENOUGH, i see spectres/pursuer in gold, but they still go with the logic 9/10/10/10/10 , there are some rlly ugly guys with mk2 full hangar but i barely see them (something relative more common is 1 bot or 2,3 weapons mk2 but not fully lvled either).
i am playing in gold and go to diamond from time to time and i see this pretty much standard. ofc when i reach diamond i see expert full mk2, and champion league with 4 hangars with full mk2... why would i be insane enough to go to those leagues if i barely have an hangar with lvl 12 or below non-mk2... that is been masochist period.
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maracas
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Post by maracas on Jun 2, 2018 14:49:57 GMT -5
And the worst thing about LPQ is that is still shrouded with secrecy... i support this 'secrecy', humans tends to use loops in the system to get what they wanted (we see it every day irl, and IT HAPPENED with the gepard slaughter house, gepard mangnum 1/8/8/8) that they need to change the rules of lpq it in a weekly basis (if they do it) i see it as a necessity too. sure there are a lot of victims (myself include, because fking isp fk their system), but we have to suck it up...
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Post by acdcfan on Jun 2, 2018 19:33:34 GMT -5
i support this 'secrecy', humans tends to use loops in the system to get what they wanted (we see it every day irl, and IT HAPPENED with the gepard slaughter house, gepard mangnum 1/8/8/8) that they need to change the rules of lpq it in a weekly basis (if they do it) i see it as a necessity too. sure there are a lot of victims (myself include, because fking isp fk their system), but we have to suck it up... it cannot be like this.... Players need to know what they need to do to get out of it. Being in the dark is not the way to go. At least, they can advise those individuals how many games they need to play to get out. Just playing games not knowing if and when is driving some of them away from the game. No because they want but because they did not know why they ended up and what they need to do to get out.
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Post by Thumpmonkey1 on Jun 3, 2018 18:58:10 GMT -5
Here is an interesting tidbit I was unaware of. I am constantly messaging Pixonic tech and they me and I recently found myself in the Penalty League for no reason I could see. I am not a tanker. I report tankers. I don't join games to quit them. Nor do I use Deathmatch to lose and lower my league rating. I do select which games I wish to join, because, face it, sometimes you absolutely have the wrong hangar for the random match you end up with. Before dropping into a match, you have the option to not join it. Sometimes, however, the stupid game drops you into one before you get a chance to refuse it. The previous documentation for the game gave you a chance to bail out of a game in the first few second if you decided not to play it. I can't remember the time interval, but it was enough for you to make that decision and it was very useful when you find yourself in a 2v6 match on the wrong side. Guess what, fans? That is no longer the case. Yessir, the rules have changed and I never saw the memo. You now have to play EVERY game. Not playing it means a tanked game on the server record. The server rules allow you to tank a few games before you get banished to the penalty league. Interestingly, I was doing just that and I triggered the algorithm and got sent to the Box. The good news that I exited after playing a few normal games without a hitch. So be warned, do not ditch any game. Once you hit "Battle" you are committed. This has been the case for a while now. Map skipping has put you in the Leavers Queue for many months now.
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beaconboy
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Post by beaconboy on Jun 4, 2018 19:44:07 GMT -5
New update: Last messages to Pixonic mentioned that tanking is their number 1 priority right now. This after I complained about how overpowered Shocktrains were ruining the game. (Different rant subject) Tanking by dropping out is one way they are watching, but to my knowledge, they have no way of catching people who drop into a battle and either hang around in the backfield contributing nothing, or cycle through their hangars to the last bot which they throw into an enemy's guns. Or catching a player who joins a battle to basically get killed off as fast a possible. After this, the only way to spot a tanker is by their hangars which will show overpowered bots and items compared to a player's League rating. At some point it will be too hard to track or question. I mean who draws up the boundaries? You can say that a Gold with a maxxed hangar is a sign of tanking. Any hangar that has one maxxed Mk2 robot and equipment against the balance being lower bots and items is a sign. But without extremes what other signs are there? Certainly you cannot count on informants, like me, to tip off the devs on tanker behavior.
Maybe if they just deny the ability to leave a battle until it is done. Ultimately, it is my opinion that you cannot control tanking through the behavior, but rather to disincentivize it. The only reason it is being done is to capture gold and maybe glory for those players who are insecure ppl. This is why containing matchmaking through hangar power makes more sense. Back to establishing a scoring system that reflects the overall power of a hangar and only matches like players' hangars. Or create a player leveling system (like the 30 point system they have now) that factors in hangar power. Or possibly disallow high level weaponry from playing in battles not more closely matched. Or, lastly, limiting the power of all weapons based on the League level battle they play in.
Of course, as a developer, you have to want to do this as opposed to be focused on driving in-game purchases regardless of the gaming consequences.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Jun 5, 2018 10:03:37 GMT -5
Come to Amazon: tanking doesn't exist over where we come from! True. Pointless to tank when the minnows are thrown in with the sharks right out of training. Considering the very Darwinian nature of combat there Amazon is a very appropriate name for the servers as well. Welcome to the Jungle, we got fun and games..
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Jun 5, 2018 10:23:54 GMT -5
New update: Last messages to Pixonic mentioned that tanking is their number 1 priority right now. This after I complained about how overpowered Shocktrains were ruining the game. (Different rant subject) Tanking by dropping out is one way they are watching, but to my knowledge, they have no way of catching people who drop into a battle and either hang around in the backfield contributing nothing, or cycle through their hangars to the last bot which they throw into an enemy's guns. Or catching a player who joins a battle to basically get killed off as fast a possible. After this, the only way to spot a tanker is by their hangars which will show overpowered bots and items compared to a player's League rating. At some point it will be too hard to track or question. I mean who draws up the boundaries? You can say that a Gold with a maxxed hangar is a sign of tanking. Any hangar that has one maxxed Mk2 robot and equipment against the balance being lower bots and items is a sign. But without extremes what other signs are there? Certainly you cannot count on informants, like me, to tip off the devs on tanker behavior.
Maybe if they just deny the ability to leave a battle until it is done. Ultimately, it is my opinion that you cannot control tanking through the behavior, but rather to disincentivize it. The only reason it is being done is to capture gold and maybe glory for those players who are insecure ppl. This is why containing matchmaking through hangar power makes more sense. Back to establishing a scoring system that reflects the overall power of a hangar and only matches like players' hangars. Or create a player leveling system (like the 30 point system they have now) that factors in hangar power. Or possibly disallow high level weaponry from playing in battles not more closely matched. Or, lastly, limiting the power of all weapons based on the League level battle they play in.
Of course, as a developer, you have to want to do this as opposed to be focused on driving in-game purchases regardless of the gaming consequences.
I always drop from any match not Domination. That is the biggest issue in the game at this time. People do not like being forced to participate in game modes that are chosen for them. They especially do not like being punished for not liking or enjoying game modes that have been thrust upon them without choice. That is why I and many others no longer play on the Android servers. At this time there is no LPQ in the Amazon and we bail on any game mode or map that we don't like with impunity. And you know what? It works. Matches are filled and players enjoy the game as they should be able to, win or lose. So for PIXONIC to claim that mode bailers "ruin matches" and that they cannot give us mode choice is total crap. I'm playing the game for my enjoyment alone, not the enjoyment of other players. I have no intention of ever being the Ag fodder of others for their amusements while I am forced to play in any game modes that I do not like or enjoy playing or face some kind of punishment.
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Post by $$SupportsNewHires/NewContent on Jun 6, 2018 23:01:03 GMT -5
New update: Last messages to Pixonic mentioned that tanking is their number 1 priority right now. This after I complained about how overpowered Shocktrains were ruining the game. (Different rant subject) Tanking by dropping out is one way they are watching, but to my knowledge, they have no way of catching people who drop into a battle and either hang around in the backfield contributing nothing, or cycle through their hangars to the last bot which they throw into an enemy's guns. Or catching a player who joins a battle to basically get killed off as fast a possible. After this, the only way to spot a tanker is by their hangars which will show overpowered bots and items compared to a player's League rating. At some point it will be too hard to track or question. I mean who draws up the boundaries? You can say that a Gold with a maxxed hangar is a sign of tanking. Any hangar that has one maxxed Mk2 robot and equipment against the balance being lower bots and items is a sign. But without extremes what other signs are there? Certainly you cannot count on informants, like me, to tip off the devs on tanker behavior.
Maybe if they just deny the ability to leave a battle until it is done. Ultimately, it is my opinion that you cannot control tanking through the behavior, but rather to disincentivize it. The only reason it is being done is to capture gold and maybe glory for those players who are insecure ppl. This is why containing matchmaking through hangar power makes more sense. Back to establishing a scoring system that reflects the overall power of a hangar and only matches like players' hangars. Or create a player leveling system (like the 30 point system they have now) that factors in hangar power. Or possibly disallow high level weaponry from playing in battles not more closely matched. Or, lastly, limiting the power of all weapons based on the League level battle they play in.
Of course, as a developer, you have to want to do this as opposed to be focused on driving in-game purchases regardless of the gaming consequences.
I always drop from any match not Domination. That is the biggest issue in the game at this time. People do not like being forced to participate in game modes that are chosen for them. They especially do not like being punished for not liking or enjoying game modes that have been thrust upon them without choice. That is why I and many others no longer play on the Android servers. At this time there is no LPQ in the Amazon and we bail on any game mode or map that we don't like with impunity. And you know what? It works. Matches are filled and players enjoy the game as they should be able to, win or lose. So for PIXONIC to claim that mode bailers "ruin matches" and that they cannot give us mode choice is total crap. I'm playing the game for my enjoyment alone, not the enjoyment of other players. I have no intention of ever being the Ag fodder of others for their amusements while I am forced to play in any game modes that I do not like or enjoy playing or face some kind of punishment. Does you bailing on certain maps create a numerical advantage for the reds? I think creating separate modes( like in the past) is a good way to solve this issue.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Jun 7, 2018 0:40:27 GMT -5
I always drop from any match not Domination. That is the biggest issue in the game at this time. People do not like being forced to participate in game modes that are chosen for them. They especially do not like being punished for not liking or enjoying game modes that have been thrust upon them without choice. That is why I and many others no longer play on the Android servers. At this time there is no LPQ in the Amazon and we bail on any game mode or map that we don't like with impunity. And you know what? It works. Matches are filled and players enjoy the game as they should be able to, win or lose. So for PIXONIC to claim that mode bailers "ruin matches" and that they cannot give us mode choice is total crap. I'm playing the game for my enjoyment alone, not the enjoyment of other players. I have no intention of ever being the Ag fodder of others for their amusements while I am forced to play in any game modes that I do not like or enjoy playing or face some kind of punishment. Does you bailing on certain maps create a numerical advantage for the reds? I think creating separate modes( like in the past) is a good way to solve this issue. I don't think so since I'm often dropped into running matches up to a minute in. But I don't care if it does. PIXONIC created this Random monstrosity not I. Throwing four more game modes that I never asked for or wanted into my game is not right either. It's like saying, "You can only enjoy 1 match in five. If you're very, very lucky."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 1:33:25 GMT -5
Does you bailing on certain maps create a numerical advantage for the reds? I think creating separate modes( like in the past) is a good way to solve this issue. I don't think so since I'm often dropped into running matches up to a minute in. But I don't care if it does. PIXONIC created this Random monstrosity not I. Throwing four more game modes that I never asked for or wanted into my game is not right either. It's like saying, "You can only enjoy 1 match in five. If you're very, very lucky."
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Post by ♧SGT FURY 24/7♧ on Jun 7, 2018 6:34:35 GMT -5
As has been said, Amazon MM is bananas, but wait times are seconds, and teams are generally balanced, although the players on each team vary from Bronze to Champion. My strongest stuff is 9/9. Made Champ league by 6/6. I spend way more time there than on Android lately.
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Post by echodangerfox on Sept 25, 2018 19:49:47 GMT -5
I don't see the league mismatchmaking working. I am frequently in silver league matches with lvl 30 players that have multiple level 12 bots with level 10+ top shelf weapons. The simplest solution is to level cap each league. If you have level 12 weapons and you drop yourself to silver league, they will become level 7. If your bot is a level 9 mk2, it will become a level 7. You may have a slight advantage due to top shelf weapons or bots, but it will be severely curtailed. You won't be able to have a toe to toe fight against a level 7 griffin sporting punishers with your magnum armed stalker, and expect to live. You won't be a level 12mk2, and you won't have level 12 guns.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Sept 28, 2018 19:36:09 GMT -5
Come to Amazon: tanking doesn't exist over where we come from! I'm sorry but I must disagree. I have seen tankers plenty! a level 30 player with L10-12 bots and weapons in silver? If he is not a tanker than no one is. Tanking is a cancer effecting every server. And how do you know that they aren't just some kid that inherited their parent's or sibling's profile? This is happening more often these days with all the unwanted changes done to the game. I know of several who joined my Amazon clan a while back. And there is no tanking anywhere because PIXONIC doesn't actually acknowledge tanking as defined by the gaming moralists among the playing community. Their definition of a tanker is just someone who leaves matches too often. I've actually had them tell me this over and over recently because my all light bot Android profile was placed in the LPQ briefly for refusing to participate in undesirable game modes too often. They continued to label me as a "tanker" despite the fact that I completely owned being a "leaver", which is entirely different. This doesn't happen on the Amazon servers because we have no LPQ thankfully. I absolutely despise playing anything but Domination.
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Post by RedRaider on Sept 29, 2018 13:23:41 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I must disagree. I have seen tankers plenty! a level 30 player with L10-12 bots and weapons in silver? If he is not a tanker than no one is. Tanking is a cancer effecting every server. And how do you know that they aren't just some kid that inherited their parent's or sibling's profile? This is happening more often these days with all the unwanted changes done to the game. I know of several who joined my Amazon clan a while back. And there is no tanking anywhere because PIXONIC doesn't actually acknowledge tanking as defined by the gaming moralists among the playing community. Their definition of a tanker is just someone who leaves matches too often. I've actually had them tell me this over and over recently because my all light bot Android profile was placed in the LPQ briefly for refusing to participate in undesirable game modes too often. They continued to label me as a "tanker" despite the fact that I completely owned being a "leaver", which is entirely different. This doesn't happen on the Amazon servers because we have no LPQ thankfully. I absolutely despise playing anything but Domination. what happened Thor? you went back in your time machine to dig this one up??? This from April for pete's sake...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 13:43:46 GMT -5
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Sept 29, 2018 15:04:43 GMT -5
RedRaider, sorry, echodangerfox has been digging up the dead left and right and I've just now noticed that I'm chasing zombies with a butter knife.
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