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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 18:22:44 GMT -5
Old matchmaking was back during the weekends and now Elo matchmaking torture has started up again. Elo was originally meant for chess, where everyone has equal opportunity to capture your opponent's units. I will have to say that Elo is the dumbest type of matchmaking for this type of games; where there are heavily varying changes between levels. An Orkan at level 8 does not even come close to the power of Orkans at level 12.
So Pixonic, if you are reading this, I hope you will try this out, because this MM solves clubbing and puts people with equal competition. There are 4 broad tiers.
Rookie tier is for pilots level 25 and under. No one above level 25 can enter that tier. In Rookie tier, there are 3 smaller tiers; Light, Medium and Heavies. A player that has 1 heavy bot and 2 lights will be counted in the same tier as a player with 4 heavy bots. However they will not be fighting players will all medium and/or light bot setups. Shield bots and WSP bots have no penalties there mainly because players under level 25 most likely will not have the gold or WSP to buy bots.
After the player reaches level 26, they will be judged according to their highest level bot OR weapon but light bot levels are rated 2 levels lower, and mediums; 1. A 8/8 Heavy bot will be rated the same as a 10/8 Light bot which will be rated the same as a 9/8 medium bot. A 8/6 Gepard will be rated the same as a 7/6 Rog and a 6/6 heavy. A 4/12 Gepard should not be fighting 6/6 Heavies, they should be fighting at least 10/10s.
There will 3 tiers and 2 subtiers per tier that players will be placed in. Diamond will be Bot / Weapon level 11-12. Platinum will be Bot / Weapon level 9-10. Gold will be Bot / Weapon level 6-8. Silver will be Bot / Weapon level 4-6 and bronze will be anything lower than that.
No player should be fighting anyone with anything 3 Bot / Weapon levels above them. If you Shield Bot, then you are put into Gold or above automatically, but the lower half if the shield bot level is lower than 6. WSP weapons will be put into a tier where you fight opponents with weapon / bot 1 level ahead of them. If you think about it, a 7/5 Pinata Gepard will not do jack against a 6/5 Golem let alone a Boa.
There will be a slight Elo matchmaking involved. If your win rate is above 65-75% then you will be fighting players with Bot / Weapon levels 2 ahead. If your win rate is above 75%, then you will be fighting players with 3 bot weapons levels ahead. If your win rate is below 40% then you will be fighting players with Bot / Weapon levels 2 below.
Don't think there is anyway to game the system. I spent a good amount of time fighting Magnum Gepards in low silver while building up my heavy hangar. I have seen how unfair the old matchmaking was, but it is definitely entirely better than this current Elo disaster we are playing here. I don't mind losing to players with the similar 6/8s as me,but asking my 6/8s to kill 12 is just ridiculous. This is clubbing, but with Furies and Galahads. I want to be fighting players with the same level builds as me. The one who is more skilled will win and the less skilled will lose. If Pixonic actually tests this idea, which they probably won't, and players who are clueless are complaining why their hangars are imbalanced, and that their 3/5 Golem with their 10/9 Leo are fighting 10/10, theres a a lot of information around. The is a Wiki, the FAQ, the Forums and a Discord for advice instead of players just complain on FB.
As of now, balancing hangars are a good idea but I can swear that Pix is switching on and off the Elo matchmaking and putting the old one back.
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Post by jckidd on Jan 31, 2017 15:07:02 GMT -5
Here is my two cents. Institute hard tiers based on levels. Doesn't matter if level is your bot or weapon. Use the elo system within the tier to match teams as evenly as possible. 1. Bronze: bot/weapon levels 1-4 (only ag bots/weapons and no squads) 2. Silver: bot/weapons levels 5-7 3. Gold: bot/weapons levels 8-10 4. Top: bot/weapons levels 11-12
All workshop and gold bots/weapons start at level 5. Heavy bots start at level 5. Now optimum hangers are: 1. Bronze: level 4/4 2. Silver: level 7/7 3. Gold: level 9/9 4. Top: level 12/12
New players are protected from OP bots/weapons and players (especially clans that squad up in bronze). Players can run hangers in different tiers for more gameplay experience. Devs can make more money (players will have to arm all bots instead of switching weapons around). All bots and weapons would be relevant again, albeit in different tiers.
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Post by spawnreaper on Feb 1, 2017 0:33:31 GMT -5
I like both but would like to add wsp and gold bots automatcally are silver and cant go to bronze
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beaconboy
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If you have no warning level then you are not really trying. ;)
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Post by beaconboy on Feb 3, 2017 20:10:26 GMT -5
I think that it is not the tiers that are the issue, it's the handicapping. I have played for a long while and studied almost every game I played by reviewing the team boards at the end. To be sure, something has changed recently in that the match making has gotten far looser than it was a couple of weeks ago. Everyone, who is not playing Gold or Level 12 seems to be complaining about this subject. Interestingly, once your bots and weapons hit this threshold, the field of battle is finally leveled. Before this, however, there's a different experience, particularly at the level I play at - probably mid-Silver.
There are 2 issues I have seen: (1) you can have widely ranging player levels (as determined by weapon and bot levels) in the same game or (2) you can have players "gaming" the rating system for an advantage. The former, which I am sure we have all experienced, is pretty frustrating when you find out at game end that the opposing team was stacked with players far stronger than you or your team. Or that you have been playing in a game with players on both sides that far outgun you. The second is seen most often during these medal events where awards are based on relative damage done by either winners or losers. In this case, players stack very low level bots with very high level weapons. For example, Level 10 Aphids on a Level 3 Patton. This player ends up against much weaker opponents and racks up the hit points.
It seems to me, without knowing the internal rating system of bots and players, that the current method is flawed. The objective would be to have a rating system that balances 3 items for each player and returns a handicap: 1) weapon level, 2) bot level and 3) equipment (amount of and type). I could come up with my own analog for this but it's not my software. I'm only suggesting here a more balanced system. The objective is more to avoid pissing people off but putting them into a match where they are massacred easily because this discourages game participation.
Fundamentally, this is what I would do. Weapon level is far more important than bot level, so the primary rating is generated off the average of all weapons on hangered bots. The average of bot levels is blended in. Lastly, adjustments are made for specific equipment factors as needed. This is the tricky part. One guideline would be that if a player fields a bot or weapon at Level 10, 11 or 12 then they could only be matched with similar players. This ends the exploitation of using low bots and high weapons. Personally, I field bots and weapons at the same level so I feel my rating is pretty consistent. Its amazing who I am matched with. Other adjustments would be for numbers of bots in the hanger. I see too many games where people with 3 bots are matched against a team of 5 bot players. Needless to say, the team with more bots generally wins. Just like the team with the greater weapons sums tends to win as well. Another adjustment would be shielded bots, especially the Brit bots. The team with the most Brit bots also tends to win. It has gotten to the point where I can almost determine up front the outcome of a game by observing the bots and weapon damages.
SO what does this look like? For my purposes I set up a simple Excel spreadsheet that generates a player's rating based on what is in their hanger. It takes takes all the weapons and returns a score, then adds in the bot levels. In my case, 5 level 8 bots with 18 weapons of 8 and 9. My summary is 186. Divide by the number of bots and my rating is 37.2. I have no high tier weapons and no Brit bots. I do have a high win percentage that might make for a n adjustment. Lets take a look at another player. 4 Level 5 bots with 16 weapons of Level 10 or higher. His summary would be 190 and a rating of 47.5. In my world we could be matched except for the fact that he is carrying 1 Level 12 weapon. He gets an instant upgrade in rating. For me, I'd move him into the rating 60 group. Given how rating groups would be matched, it is very likely I would never play this guy. The devs can work out a more detailed analog, but this is the idea.
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Post by ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed on Feb 3, 2017 21:06:05 GMT -5
A big problem with instituting fixed brackets for tiers is players who don't research War Robots online (which I'm guessing is 95+%) are getting screwed over when they upgrade a weapon to level 5 and are suddenly facing better trained and better equipped pilots with no way to go back. Same with casual players who want to have fun running random setups without being entirely useless. Not everyone takes the game as seriously as we do, but their experience is just as important.
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Post by spawnreaper on Feb 5, 2017 13:56:33 GMT -5
A big problem with instituting fixed brackets for tiers is players who don't research War Robots online (which I'm guessing is 95+%) are getting screwed over when they upgrade a weapon to level 5 and are suddenly facing better trained and better equipped pilots with no way to go back. Same with casual players who want to have fun running random setups without being entirely useless. Not everyone takes the game as seriously as we do, but their experience is just as important. I agree with u about random players and not enuff people getting the proper info to enhance their playing experience. Perhaps game could install a ingame icon like the fb one to bring people to this forum.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 14:01:23 GMT -5
A big problem with instituting fixed brackets for tiers is players who don't research War Robots online (which I'm guessing is 95+%) are getting screwed over when they upgrade a weapon to level 5 and are suddenly facing better trained and better equipped pilots with no way to go back. Same with casual players who want to have fun running random setups without being entirely useless. Not everyone takes the game as seriously as we do, but their experience is just as important. I agree with u about random players and not enuff people getting the proper info to enhance their playing experience. Perhaps game could install a ingame icon like the fb one to bring people to this forum. Tthey could put a 'Casual' and 'Ranked' mode to solve this...
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Post by ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed on Feb 5, 2017 14:29:27 GMT -5
I agree with u about random players and not enuff people getting the proper info to enhance their playing experience. Perhaps game could install a ingame icon like the fb one to bring people to this forum. Tthey could put a 'Casual' and 'Ranked' mode to solve this... Yeah so many people have suggested it I'd be surprised if they weren't already planning to do that. But they still have to make the ranked mode first (league system)
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Post by [AURA] Pîśtäçhįø on Feb 7, 2017 6:17:34 GMT -5
4/4 for bronze 6/6 for silver 9/9 for gold 11/11 for top
Also kill those clubbers
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beaconboy
Destrier
If you have no warning level then you are not really trying. ;)
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Post by beaconboy on Mar 9, 2017 20:49:22 GMT -5
4/4 for bronze 6/6 for silver 9/9 for gold 11/11 for top Also kill those clubbers Oversimplified, but generally works for me.
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Post by blastronaut on Mar 9, 2017 20:59:50 GMT -5
Can we stop with the gravedigs? Just go to the Rants section if you want to talk about the MM.
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Post by [AURA] Pîśtäçhįø on Mar 10, 2017 18:46:41 GMT -5
Leagues should calm your brain cells
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Post by jckidd on Jun 2, 2017 16:26:44 GMT -5
Here is my two cents. Institute hard tiers based on levels. Doesn't matter if level is your bot or weapon. Use the elo system within the tier to match teams as evenly as possible. 1. Bronze: bot/weapon levels 1-4 (only ag bots/weapons and no squads) 2. Silver: bot/weapons levels 5-7 3. Gold: bot/weapons levels 8-10 4. Top: bot/weapons levels 11-12 All workshop and gold bots/weapons start at level 5. Heavy bots start at level 5. Now optimum hangers are: 1. Bronze: level 4/4 2. Silver: level 7/7 3. Gold: level 9/9 4. Top: level 12/12 New players are protected from OP bots/weapons and players (especially clans that squad up in bronze). Players can run hangers in different tiers for more gameplay experience. Devs can make more money (players will have to arm all bots instead of switching weapons around). All bots and weapons would be relevant again, albeit in different tiers.
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Post by DarkVagabond on Jun 2, 2017 17:08:31 GMT -5
Old matchmaking was back during the weekends and now Elo matchmaking torture has started up again. Elo was originally meant for chess, where everyone has equal opportunity to capture your opponent's units. I will have to say that Elo is the dumbest type of matchmaking for this type of games; where there are heavily varying changes between levels. An Orkan at level 8 does not even come close to the power of Orkans at level 12. So Pixonic, if you are reading this, I hope you will try this out, because this MM solves clubbing and puts people with equal competition. There are 4 broad tiers. Rookie tier is for pilots level 25 and under. No one above level 25 can enter that tier. In Rookie tier, there are 3 smaller tiers; Light, Medium and Heavies. A player that has 1 heavy bot and 2 lights will be counted in the same tier as a player with 4 heavy bots. However they will not be fighting players will all medium and/or light bot setups. Shield bots and WSP bots have no penalties there mainly because players under level 25 most likely will not have the gold or WSP to buy bots. After the player reaches level 26, they will be judged according to their highest level bot OR weapon but light bot levels are rated 2 levels lower, and mediums; 1. A 8/8 Heavy bot will be rated the same as a 10/8 Light bot which will be rated the same as a 9/8 medium bot. A 8/6 Gepard will be rated the same as a 7/6 Rog and a 6/6 heavy. A 4/12 Gepard should not be fighting 6/6 Heavies, they should be fighting at least 10/10s. There will 3 tiers and 2 subtiers per tier that players will be placed in. Diamond will be Bot / Weapon level 11-12. Platinum will be Bot / Weapon level 9-10. Gold will be Bot / Weapon level 6-8. Silver will be Bot / Weapon level 4-6 and bronze will be anything lower than that. No player should be fighting anyone with anything 3 Bot / Weapon levels above them. If you Shield Bot, then you are put into Gold or above automatically, but the lower half if the shield bot level is lower than 6. WSP weapons will be put into a tier where you fight opponents with weapon / bot 1 level ahead of them. If you think about it, a 7/5 Pinata Gepard will not do jack against a 6/5 Golem let alone a Boa. There will be a slight Elo matchmaking involved. If your win rate is above 65-75% then you will be fighting players with Bot / Weapon levels 2 ahead. If your win rate is above 75%, then you will be fighting players with 3 bot weapons levels ahead. If your win rate is below 40% then you will be fighting players with Bot / Weapon levels 2 below. Don't think there is anyway to game the system. I spent a good amount of time fighting Magnum Gepards in low silver while building up my heavy hangar. I have seen how unfair the old matchmaking was, but it is definitely entirely better than this current Elo disaster we are playing here. I don't mind losing to players with the similar 6/8s as me,but asking my 6/8s to kill 12 is just ridiculous. This is clubbing, but with Furies and Galahads. I want to be fighting players with the same level builds as me. The one who is more skilled will win and the less skilled will lose. If Pixonic actually tests this idea, which they probably won't, and players who are clueless are complaining why their hangars are imbalanced, and that their 3/5 Golem with their 10/9 Leo are fighting 10/10, theres a a lot of information around. The is a Wiki, the FAQ, the Forums and a Discord for advice instead of players just complain on FB. As of now, balancing hangars are a good idea but I can swear that Pix is switching on and off the Elo matchmaking and putting the old one back. Credit to you for attempting to provide a solution to our problematic MM. Thank you! May I ask, why do you support the original MMs practice of matching up players with one heavy bot under lvl25, with players with ALL heavies? This sounds very unfair and against the principle of your suggestions. I must confess, I bought a Leo under lvl 25 which I levelled up, which led to a terribly unfair playing experience for me as a result. What is the reasoning for this? Why can't you match 1 heavy with 1 heavy, 2 heavies with two heavies etc?
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Post by FRΞΞDØM☆F1GHTΞR on Jun 2, 2017 17:46:17 GMT -5
A big problem with instituting fixed brackets for tiers is players who don't research War Robots online (which I'm guessing is 95+%) are getting screwed over when they upgrade a weapon to level 5 and are suddenly facing better trained and better equipped pilots with no way to go back. Same with casual players who want to have fun running random setups without being entirely useless. Not everyone takes the game as seriously as we do, but their experience is just as important. Wait a minute... That sounds like... the old matchmaker! Maybe that's why they got rid of it... hmmmm...
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Post by FRΞΞDØM☆F1GHTΞR on Jun 2, 2017 17:48:20 GMT -5
To be perfectly honest, I stopped reading the OP after the first paragraph because OP still thinks that we have an Elo system, and it was established at the onset of leagues that it is not an Elo system.
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