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Post by garunixreborn on Nov 28, 2017 17:42:47 GMT -5
So with the people recently who still complain about the dash bots and the shocktrain, and for those few who complain about the buffs to the zeuses and hydras. You need to understand the background.
I will start off by saying this one sentence.
"The rise of the dash bots now is very comparable to the rise of the britbots in the past"
You may think i sound crazy, but think of it this way. What happened when the britbots first got released? I can tell you one thing. The only way to use a physical shield back in the day was to equip an ecu (not all bots could carry it, and you cannot fire while protecting yourself) or to use a rhino (this was a formidable bot back in the day) However, with the rhino you could only use 2 light weapons while firing. Nothing compared to the 2 lights + 1 medium of the galahad, or the monstrous 2 mediums + 1 heavy the lancelot had. Old players will remember this and they would recall people calling the game pay to win back then. Before now, running a death button was a MUST, otherwise you could not deal with these bots (splash weapons were not very popular back then). After a while, people resorted to using trident furies as a powerful counter to these bots. Later on, that got semi shut down because of the ancilot coming into popularity after the ancile buff. This made these made lancelots much harder to deal with. This led to the eventual buffs of all rocket weapons (except the trident) that finally placed these bots into a more relative position. Skip forward a couple months and the dash bots arrive. This once again, led people to believe this game was pay to win. True, the dash bots were alot more expensive, but you have to remember, pixonic is a business. They need to make money. These bots arrive and cause chaos in the meta, reminiscent of the original britbot era. Another few weeks later, the shocktrain arrives. People are outraged. They were too powerful and NEEDED to be nerfed. However, they were one of the only 2 weapons able to counter the dash bots (the other being the zeus). Their intent was to make the shocktrain a reliable dash bot counter, as their mobility means nothing when facing them. This plan failed. Just like in the past, they buffed the orkan to get rid of the britbots, only to make the britbots use them. Now they introduced the shocktrain, only to make the dash bots use them. Now we use a very reliable counter to kill these bots, the zeus fury (just like the trident fury back in the day). There is a pattern here:
new bots arrive
"they are pay to win"
they are too strong
weapons are buffed to control them
they OP bots instead use those weapons
People find a reliable counter and use the weapon on a fury
Lancelot only: a buff happens making the new counter less effective
Dash bots only: the bulgasari begins replacing the haechi to deal with zeuses
See the pattern there? The same thing is happening now that happened in the past with the britbots. The hydras were buffed to help deal with these bots, but the large amount of haechis made this weapon useless. The hydra was nerfed slightly. Now the haechi is slightly nerfed, just as the galahad and gareth were when backpedaling was removed (even though this was an indirect nerf). The zeus fury is now popular, just as the trident fury was back in the day.
I also asked adrian chong on one of his recent livestreams and he confirmed this saying that the rise of the boa during the early days of the game was also somewhat comparable to what is happening now. He also confirmed the fact that people called the game pay to win back then in the days of the galahad. He also said
"you can get the dash bots for under 100 dollars"
He explained how you can obtain them by first obtaining sufficient components and purchasing the rest for a cheaper price. He also said that he bought 25k gold for $139 in a special deal and completed a full roulette cycle for about 7k gold. Doing that 3 times allowed him to obtain his dash bots for a very cheap price.
He also explained WHY the orkan was buffed, giving reason that in the old days the death button was able to one shot most of the meta bots at the time (patton, boa, galahad, gareth). He then said that the orkan was buffed to deal with the new meta bots that had more health.
In conclusion, don't act like this has never happened before, because it has, The first time with the boa wasnt too bad because it was a silver bot, but in the britbot's prime, 5 galahad, 5 lancelots, or mixed hangars were very powerful (the gareth wasn't as popular because the galahad had more health and firepower), just like the dash hangars today. Please recognize the similarities and don't quit the game because of these bots. Understand the past and the background story behind them. I hope you understand.
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Post by 7iquid on Nov 28, 2017 17:49:32 GMT -5
Great post. Really interesting - thanks.  |
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Post by amidf on Nov 28, 2017 17:58:31 GMT -5
If global inflation were running at 100% annually, this story would make a lot of sense.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2017 19:10:39 GMT -5
All true, but what you don't seem to understand is that people are outraged by the pricing and availability of dash bots. This was the real problem. Pigsonic went ahead and introduced a very expensive and game breakingly powerful weapon that you need three of to be competitive in the top.
Nothing wrong with a company that wants profit and nothing wrong with changing the meta once in a while - but complete bullocks to price a meta setup at $600. Not even going to go into the issue with the black market.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Nov 28, 2017 19:16:23 GMT -5
Seriously...?!? Don't complain that we went from having to, at the most, have 50$ worth of Au to get a Lance... to... what... getting a special deal of getting Au for 139$ in order to get 1 bot on the cheap but only after the community went crazy on them for offering them at 250$ after having them offered in such a way that had people spending 1000s to get 1?
Man... this didn't do a thing to put out the fire... You basically added fuel to it.
I'm not complaining all that much in comparison to some on this forum... but man I don't get what you are trying to say.
Be glad that they are raising both the prices and creating and lengthening, in one fell swoop of upgrades from about 3.0 on, the gap between the spenders and the non/minor spenders?
No.
I won't be glad about that.
I still play the game for fun... but I'll be damned if I give Pix one ounce of credit as a decent game company again. Too many BOHICAs without even 1 reach around for my taste... jus' sayin'.
But, good on you for trying to enjoy it.... I guess.
IMO, YMMV.
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Post by ezekielcrow on Nov 28, 2017 20:50:37 GMT -5
Thanks for this breath of fresh air. Recently the boards have been long on opinions and short on perspective.
I still do think the haechi is a bit OP. Considering the ways that were available to counter the britbots back then,there are a precious few chinks in haechis feature set. Also Pixo could have done much to prevent customer frustration by making prices for the new kbots/inqstr reasonable and by making the new weapons widely available and reasonably priced before releasing the dashes. But then pixo has a long sordid history of throwing good ideas under a bus to make a buck.
Just out of genuine curiosity though, were there also hangars filled with boas and britbots then?
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Post by acdcfan on Nov 28, 2017 21:18:38 GMT -5
So with the people recently who still complain about the dash bots and the shocktrain, and for those few who complain about the buffs to the zeuses and hydras. You need to understand the background. I hope you understand. But what you fail to mention is that all brit bots were available for purchase with gold and WP..... Now all new bots are available either for real money or IP, or components. You cannot buy these as you could buy brit bots... |
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Post by Danny Linguini on Nov 28, 2017 22:06:52 GMT -5
This comparison is wrong on so many fronts, it hurts my head just trying to figure out where to begin punching holes in it. So I'll just let Vinny address it for me.
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Post by T34 on Nov 28, 2017 22:43:10 GMT -5
As per above. You totally missed the relative availability and cost of bots during the previous meta changes and the current meta change. That point alone comprehensively destroys your argument in relation to P2W provided the new bots are superior to the old ones. ….. and they are.
But P2W didn’t just stop at the new bots with recent developments. There is also the difference in match making. No longer hanger strength based and inferior setups are match up against vastly superior ones. There is the MK2 concept. Spend even more and get an extra 20% advantage. And lets not forget the multiple hanger decks.
You are twisting the argument by conveniently selecting certain aspects while omitting other crucial bits of information in order to support your message.
With respect to the Adrian Chong,.What was said in the live stream and in what context it was said and what sort of questions were asked is up for debate in relation to you using it as examples to strengthen your argument. “sort of comparable” does not feel me with confidence. I interpret that as less alike than more alike.
And
"you can get the dash bots for under 100 dollars"
• A lance was not $100 even if you can get a dash for $100
• First obtaining components requires you to invest time into the game which is a value to pixonic.
• Personally I have not seen a 25K gold offer for $139. If they exist they probably come up very infrequently. But even if they exist and they come up frequently 7,000 gold is insufficient budget for a spin cycle. Even more risky if you have a go at it 3 times. It is poor advise to encourage people to budget 7K for a spin cycle. Very poor.
This slow collection mechanism will delay most people getting dashes without investing reasonable amounts. Its like the BM. Most will not get to the superchest. And by the time they would the chest is reset. And here by the time people collect a decent hanger the new bots will be out.
Could keep going but had enough.....
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Post by garunixreborn on Nov 29, 2017 0:46:24 GMT -5
So with the people recently who still complain about the dash bots and the shocktrain, and for those few who complain about the buffs to the zeuses and hydras. You need to understand the background. I hope you understand. But what you fail to mention is that all brit bots were available for purchase with gold and WP..... Now all new bots are available either for real money or IP, or components. You cannot buy these as you could buy brit bots... I did say pixonic is a business and that they need to make money. |
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Post by garunixreborn on Nov 29, 2017 0:54:34 GMT -5
As per above. You totally missed the relative availability and cost of bots during the previous meta changes and the current meta change. That point alone comprehensively destroys your argument in relation to P2W provided the new bots are superior to the old ones. ….. and they are. But P2W didn’t just stop at the new bots with recent developments. There is also the difference in match making. No longer hanger strength based and inferior setups are match up against vastly superior ones. There is the MK2 concept. Spend even more and get an extra 20% advantage. And lets not forget the multiple hanger decks. You are twisting the argument by conveniently selecting certain aspects while omitting other crucial bits of information in order to support your message. With respect to the Adrian Chong,.What was said in the live stream and in what context it was said and what sort of questions were asked is up for debate in relation to you using it as examples to strengthen your argument. “sort of comparable” does not feel me with confidence. I interpret that as less alike than more alike. And "you can get the dash bots for under 100 dollars" • A lance was not $100 even if you can get a dash for $100 • First obtaining components requires you to invest time into the game which is a value to pixonic. • Personally I have not seen a 25K gold offer for $139. If they exist they probably come up very infrequently. But even if they exist and they come up frequently 7,000 gold is insufficient budget for a spin cycle. Even more risky if you have a go at it 3 times. It is poor advise to encourage people to budget 7K for a spin cycle. Very poor. This slow collection mechanism will delay most people getting dashes without investing reasonable amounts. Its like the BM. Most will not get to the superchest. And by the time they would the chest is reset. And here by the time people collect a decent hanger the new bots will be out. Could keep going but had enough..... Well did you like the fact that everyone had britbots back in the day? Pixonic CLEARLY stated they didn't want to overload the meta with dash bots by making them readily available. They made that mistake with the britbots and almost every high league player had a full hangar of them. So before you go off repeating the same old "the problems with the dash bots are that they are not readily available" just toss whatever you have heard from phoenix's video out of the window because that guy is full of BS. The points are: 1) they are a business. They NEED to make money 2) they purposely made the dash bots hard to get so that they wouldn't immediately overload the meta like the galahads and lancelots did. 3) Appreciate the fact that they even give us a black market and roulette spin. They are giving us things for free. They have never done this before. 4) if you don't like excessive dash bots, go to diamond league. There you will find less dash bots and more hydras, orkans, gekkos and trebuchets. FUN! |
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Post by hon_shu on Nov 29, 2017 1:19:44 GMT -5
Charging 225 - 300 USD for the new Cash bots was and is excessive. Now saying they're affordable because they were on sale once (!) for 99 USD (!) several months (!) after release is ridiculous. Recently more means to get the Cash bots have emerged (offers, free chests), but it would still take 3 months of grinding compared to maybe 1-1.5 months for a 5000 Au Lance, and people have started making a science out of how to play the numerous casino games and understand the purposefully obfuscated offers.
I'm not a F2P player, but common sense keeps me from spending more than $30 a month on a mobile game, even though I could easily afford to spend a multiple of that. So I have spent maybe $80 on chests and had significant WSP and Au before the offers hit. Number of Cash bots in my Hangar today: ZERO (although I'm really close to a Haechi now at 9k components).
And that's what I'm upset about and I believe many other players are too. The sheer greediness of the developers can be felt in almost all aspects of the game.
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Post by Payxonic on Nov 29, 2017 1:31:15 GMT -5
lol just lol.. haha I can not even... did pix pay you or something?
You need to understand that the rise of britbots or any old meta was attainable and not by some gambling dirty black market or shady promos, or the materialization of greed(components)
There is no pattern here. Its just greed.
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Post by hon_shu on Nov 29, 2017 1:46:36 GMT -5
lol just lol.. haha I can not even... did pix pay you or something? You need to understand that the rise of britbots or any old meta was attainable and not by some gambling dirty black market or shady promos, or the materialization of greed(components) There is no pattern here. Its just greed. They're probably testing the water for the next price hike: Invisible bots, only $998, so one dollar cheaper than an iPhone X. |
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Post by Russel on Nov 29, 2017 1:54:26 GMT -5
1) if you played good in the past you could get all BritBot pack at instant. Gold were available to collect.
2) I started playing at “Britbot era”, and I never used one. Still Thunder-Pinata and RDB were good vs Brits.
3) You really cannot get Mk2 Shocktrain dash. Nope. Not happening. Not for $100, not for $300, not for $500
4) still, the worst thing is that Mk2 12 OPbots can roam from private to champs easily, and it is definitely the goal Pix is aiming for.
Britbots are not good at lvl6, say, so it was just higher tiers toys. Now those bots are PixToPay enforcers.
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Post by Russel on Nov 29, 2017 2:08:58 GMT -5
On the other hand - you are 100% right in seeing a bigger picture.
The game is NOT dying, it's just the community. The game is evolving, and becoming more of a millennial kids fun BOOM-PEW-WHOOSH type of pay-to-play shooter, with a completely different set of rules.
And of course to pivot a project so hard is painful. But Pix have chosen to do so, so it's happening. Now we need either to adapt and play with rich kids, or just move on.
I know that I will move on with my life because War Robots is losing its originality and concept by moving with the herd of every other game for me.
But the same thing happened with every change, so, in a way, you are right. It's not the "game is broken" thing, it's "the game is now a different game" kind of thing.
Reminds me of a:
Funny but kinda sad, though.
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Post by garunixreborn on Nov 29, 2017 2:22:52 GMT -5
For the people who still think this game is pay to win, i play another game that is 100% pay to win (league of war). Without spending at bare minimum, $80 per week, you will get nowhere. That is much better than the bare minimum of 250 for one dash bot to become competitive (even if silver bots and silver weapons still work). Not only that, but it is also ESSENTIAL to be in a top 10 clan, much harder than you might think. With out spending excessive cash AND being in a top 10 clan which requires a high level of activity, you will get absolutely NOWHERE. This game is still far from that. Another game i used to play that is heavily pay to win is boom beach. It is a game where you upgrade many towers up to level 22 and lay them out to defend your base. One upgrade, only one single upgrade past level 15 or so will cost $30. That is only ONE upgrade. Othwerise, saving up resources to upgrade it would be very very difficult as someone can easily just raid you and take a very large portion of it from you. Wanna know how many towers there are? At least 30. That is a minimum of $900 for only the towers. Not including the various units and other aspects of your base which could easily cost alot more. So before you call this game pay to win, go play a real P2W game and then tell me the difference
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 2:32:30 GMT -5
Pix just called me, they asked if you could play this game forever. Apparently, they love an unending source of money combined with a huge dose of ... (answers on a postcard with the last word).
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Post by acdcfan on Nov 29, 2017 2:39:35 GMT -5
As per above. You totally missed the relative availability and cost of bots during the previous meta changes and the current meta change. That point alone comprehensively destroys your argument in relation to P2W provided the new bots are superior to the old ones. ….. and they are. But P2W didn’t just stop at the new bots with recent developments. There is also the difference in match making. No longer hanger strength based and inferior setups are match up against vastly superior ones. There is the MK2 concept. Spend even more and get an extra 20% advantage. And lets not forget the multiple hanger decks. You are twisting the argument by conveniently selecting certain aspects while omitting other crucial bits of information in order to support your message. With respect to the Adrian Chong,.What was said in the live stream and in what context it was said and what sort of questions were asked is up for debate in relation to you using it as examples to strengthen your argument. “sort of comparable” does not feel me with confidence. I interpret that as less alike than more alike. And "you can get the dash bots for under 100 dollars" • A lance was not $100 even if you can get a dash for $100 • First obtaining components requires you to invest time into the game which is a value to pixonic. • Personally I have not seen a 25K gold offer for $139. If they exist they probably come up very infrequently. But even if they exist and they come up frequently 7,000 gold is insufficient budget for a spin cycle. Even more risky if you have a go at it 3 times. It is poor advise to encourage people to budget 7K for a spin cycle. Very poor. This slow collection mechanism will delay most people getting dashes without investing reasonable amounts. Its like the BM. Most will not get to the superchest. And by the time they would the chest is reset. And here by the time people collect a decent hanger the new bots will be out. Could keep going but had enough..... Well did you like the fact that everyone had britbots back in the day? Pixonic CLEARLY stated they didn't want to overload the meta with dash bots by making them readily available. They made that mistake with the britbots and almost every high league player had a full hangar of them. So before you go off repeating the same old "the problems with the dash bots are that they are not readily available" just toss whatever you have heard from phoenix's video out of the window because that guy is full of BS. The points are: 1) they are a business. They NEED to make money 2) they purposely made the dash bots hard to get so that they wouldn't immediately overload the meta like the galahads and lancelots did. 3) Appreciate the fact that they even give us a black market and roulette spin. They are giving us things for free. They have never done this before. 4) if you don't like excessive dash bots, go to diamond league. There you will find less dash bots and more hydras, orkans, gekkos and trebuchets. FUN! Top league players had a lot of gold that facilitate purchase of brit bots...something something seal clubbing era remember? gold farming? Pixo never learns from their mistakes and you could be potentially narrow minded to believe it. If these were readily available it would even battlefield to some degree. 1) yes they need to make money to keep it a float but prices are excessive and not many have funds to buy them. To me it looks like they are trying to cash in as much as possible and kill this game in next 24-36 months. Heck with all this pricing they cannot come up with enough money for their VR project. Making all these profits yet they don't have, how much was it, around $150k Doesn't that tell you something. 2) is the load of poo-poo I have heard come out of pixonics mouth, not the biggest. If I remember correctly, test server people were stating these are OP and need to be nerfed and Adrian is nothing but War Robots biggest marketing machine on YouTube. Look at his hangar...everything is maxed out ( Mk2 maxed outs ) and you're telling he bought all these with gold? Come on who are we kidding here. I have been playing for over almost 2 years, and yet I am to start on mk2 upgrades. 3) that is crap...it is rigged and form of gambling praying on weak and peoples addiction to gamble. It is rigged every War Robots Royale I spun, eliminated silver prizes, I have got from lowest amount of components, than 2x12 hr premium. Every single time without missing a beat. Only reason you're getting these for free is because of a huge players backlash and criticism, combined with negative comments on all most every possible medium there is. Free stuff is pixonic trying to please the masses 4) I am on iOS and dash bots are even in silver league not just diamond, and these are fully maxed out MK2, champion league players. To me it seems you cannot see forest from the trees. |
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Post by garunixreborn on Nov 29, 2017 2:55:18 GMT -5
Pix just called me, they asked if you could play this game forever. Apparently, they love an unending source of money combined with a huge dose of ... (answers on a postcard with the last word). Hey look! As soon as you said that, a pig flew outside my window! I don't know how many times i will need to explain that i am not a P2W, but i guess none of you have heard of that yet. Here is my hangar that i use in all my battles: imgur.com/a/NRMnXHere is my youtube channel in which you will never see me run a dash bot except on the test server (albeit once). www.youtube.com/channel/UCNUl5AKZ8L1uReYcrZ0gUxA/videosAnd if you STILL go as far as saying that i hide my P2W robots and weapons from you, then you really need help because that is just pure ignorance. One more thing, i don't have to explain twice that the dash bots were purposely made hard to obtain and that this game IS A GODAMN BUSINESS!!! Also about the roulette spins, you have obviously never been to a casino because if it was true RNG, they would be better off tossing their money down the drain. Not only that, but they had the dignity to show us the drop rates for the black market chests. |
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Post by garunixreborn on Nov 29, 2017 2:57:52 GMT -5
Well did you like the fact that everyone had britbots back in the day? Pixonic CLEARLY stated they didn't want to overload the meta with dash bots by making them readily available. They made that mistake with the britbots and almost every high league player had a full hangar of them. So before you go off repeating the same old "the problems with the dash bots are that they are not readily available" just toss whatever you have heard from phoenix's video out of the window because that guy is full of BS. The points are: 1) they are a business. They NEED to make money 2) they purposely made the dash bots hard to get so that they wouldn't immediately overload the meta like the galahads and lancelots did. 3) Appreciate the fact that they even give us a black market and roulette spin. They are giving us things for free. They have never done this before. 4) if you don't like excessive dash bots, go to diamond league. There you will find less dash bots and more hydras, orkans, gekkos and trebuchets. FUN! Top league players had a lot of gold that facilitate purchase of brit bots...something something seal clubbing era remember? gold farming? Pixo never learns from their mistakes and you could be potentially narrow minded to believe it. If these were readily available it would even battlefield to some degree. 1) yes they need to make money to keep it a float but prices are excessive and not many have funds to buy them. To me it looks like they are trying to cash in as much as possible and kill this game in next 24-36 months. Heck with all this pricing they cannot come up with enough money for their VR project. Making all these profits yet they don't have, how much was it, around $150k Doesn't that tell you something. 2) is the load of poo-poo I have heard come out of pixonics mouth, not the biggest. If I remember correctly, test server people were stating these are OP and need to be nerfed and Adrian is nothing but War Robots biggest marketing machine on YouTube. Look at his hangar...everything is maxed out ( Mk2 maxed outs ) and you're telling he bought all these with gold? Come on who are we kidding here. I have been playing for over almost 2 years, and yet I am to start on mk2 upgrades. 3) that is crap...it is rigged and form of gambling praying on weak and peoples addiction to gamble. It is rigged every War Robots Royale I spun, eliminated silver prizes, I have got from lowest amount of components, than 2x12 hr premium. Every single time without missing a beat. Only reason you're getting these for free is because of a huge players backlash and criticism, combined with negative comments on all most every possible medium there is. Free stuff is pixonic trying to please the masses 4) I am on iOS and dash bots are even in silver league not just diamond, and these are fully maxed out MK2, champion league players. To me it seems you cannot see forest from the trees. Oh look, another Phoenix fan. Do i really need to bother with you? I explained all that in my reply above so read that. |
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Post by acdcfan on Nov 29, 2017 3:12:17 GMT -5
Top league players had a lot of gold that facilitate purchase of brit bots...something something seal clubbing era remember? gold farming? Pixo never learns from their mistakes and you could be potentially narrow minded to believe it. If these were readily available it would even battlefield to some degree. 1) yes they need to make money to keep it a float but prices are excessive and not many have funds to buy them. To me it looks like they are trying to cash in as much as possible and kill this game in next 24-36 months. Heck with all this pricing they cannot come up with enough money for their VR project. Making all these profits yet they don't have, how much was it, around $150k Doesn't that tell you something. 2) is the load of poo-poo I have heard come out of pixonics mouth, not the biggest. If I remember correctly, test server people were stating these are OP and need to be nerfed and Adrian is nothing but War Robots biggest marketing machine on YouTube. Look at his hangar...everything is maxed out ( Mk2 maxed outs ) and you're telling he bought all these with gold? Come on who are we kidding here. I have been playing for over almost 2 years, and yet I am to start on mk2 upgrades. 3) that is crap...it is rigged and form of gambling praying on weak and peoples addiction to gamble. It is rigged every War Robots Royale I spun, eliminated silver prizes, I have got from lowest amount of components, than 2x12 hr premium. Every single time without missing a beat. Only reason you're getting these for free is because of a huge players backlash and criticism, combined with negative comments on all most every possible medium there is. Free stuff is pixonic trying to please the masses 4) I am on iOS and dash bots are even in silver league not just diamond, and these are fully maxed out MK2, champion league players. To me it seems you cannot see forest from the trees. Oh look, another Phoenix fan. Do i really need to bother with you? I explained all that in my reply above so read that. I read your reply and you have not said anything new.... and please do not put dignity and pixonic in the same sentence. |
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Post by Russel on Nov 29, 2017 3:30:26 GMT -5
For the people who still think this game is pay to win, i play another game that is 100% pay to win (league of war). Without spending at bare minimum, $80 per week, you will get nowhere. That is much better than the bare minimum of 250 for one dash bot to become competitive (even if silver bots and silver weapons still work). Not only that, but it is also ESSENTIAL to be in a top 10 clan, much harder than you might think. With out spending excessive cash AND being in a top 10 clan which requires a high level of activity, you will get absolutely NOWHERE. This game is still far from that. Another game i used to play that is heavily pay to win is boom beach. It is a game where you upgrade many towers up to level 22 and lay them out to defend your base. One upgrade, only one single upgrade past level 15 or so will cost $30. That is only ONE upgrade. Othwerise, saving up resources to upgrade it would be very very difficult as someone can easily just raid you and take a very large portion of it from you. Wanna know how many towers there are? At least 30. That is a minimum of $900 for only the towers. Not including the various units and other aspects of your base which could easily cost alot more. So before you call this game pay to win, go play a real P2W game and then tell me the difference Said it once, will say that again. Just give Pix time. Look how good they are doing - from $5 as a "starter pack" for one Gepard just a year ago to $100x3 + $$$ for Mk2ing bots + $$$$$ for four more hangar decks. What you are saying is basically what every alcoholic\smoker\inactive person (trying to be politically correct here) is telling to themselves every day. "well, I am alive today, so seems like everything is not as bad as people are telling me". I see clear, concise, motivated and pre-planned strategy to move the game to 100% P2P (not even p2w) here, and it's what makes me sad. Every small move and big change is intended to force people to pay more, watch more ads, spend more time promoting the game, but NOT at playing more. Future "reward chests" are 100% random (you can't pick what you want to buy, you just need to be lucky) and will be awarded for time spent in game, not for QUALITY play. They never rewarded beacon strategies (TDM, anyone?), just dealing more damage. To deal more damage you need more firepower. For this you need more upgrades and more powerful weaponry. Now and again they are throwing a bone to the masses who protest by introducing something irrelevant to gameplay but not OP or $$$ (think Storm, Hover), so people who want to play devil's advocate got something to point out. P.s. and on YouTubers - I rarely watch them, mostly Blitheran and StewPendous. |
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Post by hon_shu on Nov 29, 2017 3:36:45 GMT -5
For the people who still think this game is pay to win, i play another game that is 100% pay to win (league of war). Without spending at bare minimum, $80 per week, you will get nowhere. That is much better than the bare minimum of 250 for one dash bot to become competitive (even if silver bots and silver weapons still work). Not only that, but it is also ESSENTIAL to be in a top 10 clan, much harder than you might think. With out spending excessive cash AND being in a top 10 clan which requires a high level of activity, you will get absolutely NOWHERE. This game is still far from that. Another game i used to play that is heavily pay to win is boom beach. It is a game where you upgrade many towers up to level 22 and lay them out to defend your base. One upgrade, only one single upgrade past level 15 or so will cost $30. That is only ONE upgrade. Othwerise, saving up resources to upgrade it would be very very difficult as someone can easily just raid you and take a very large portion of it from you. Wanna know how many towers there are? At least 30. That is a minimum of $900 for only the towers. Not including the various units and other aspects of your base which could easily cost alot more. So before you call this game pay to win, go play a real P2W game and then tell me the difference but why? |
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Post by garunixreborn on Nov 29, 2017 3:51:32 GMT -5
For the people who still think this game is pay to win, i play another game that is 100% pay to win (league of war). Without spending at bare minimum, $80 per week, you will get nowhere. That is much better than the bare minimum of 250 for one dash bot to become competitive (even if silver bots and silver weapons still work). Not only that, but it is also ESSENTIAL to be in a top 10 clan, much harder than you might think. With out spending excessive cash AND being in a top 10 clan which requires a high level of activity, you will get absolutely NOWHERE. This game is still far from that. Another game i used to play that is heavily pay to win is boom beach. It is a game where you upgrade many towers up to level 22 and lay them out to defend your base. One upgrade, only one single upgrade past level 15 or so will cost $30. That is only ONE upgrade. Othwerise, saving up resources to upgrade it would be very very difficult as someone can easily just raid you and take a very large portion of it from you. Wanna know how many towers there are? At least 30. That is a minimum of $900 for only the towers. Not including the various units and other aspects of your base which could easily cost alot more. So before you call this game pay to win, go play a real P2W game and then tell me the difference but why? Idk. I played both of those games simply because my dad also played them. He quit boom beach, then i did shortly after. I didn't want to get to the stage where i had built so much and just waste it by not being able to pay. For LoW, i still play it because just like War Robots, the game has taken many, many bad turns. However, people adapted and eventually we just forgot about everything. Also i only spend on average $80 every 2-3 months just so i can keep climbing and get stronger. War Robots is not as bad as those 2 games. Trust me, the zeus fury is all you need and those dash bots are as good as dead. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 4:10:07 GMT -5
Pix just called me, they asked if you could play this game forever. Apparently, they love an unending source of money combined with a huge dose of ... (answers on a postcard with the last word). Hey look! As soon as you said that, a pig flew outside my window! I don't know how many times i will need to explain that i am not a P2W, but i guess none of you have heard of that yet. Here is my hangar that i use in all my battles: imgur.com/a/NRMnXHere is my youtube channel in which you will never see me run a dash bot except on the test server (albeit once). www.youtube.com/channel/UCNUl5AKZ8L1uReYcrZ0gUxA/videosAnd if you STILL go as far as saying that i hide my P2W robots and weapons from you, then you really need help because that is just pure ignorance. One more thing, i don't have to explain twice that the dash bots were purposely made hard to obtain and that this game IS A GODAMN BUSINESS!!! Also about the roulette spins, you have obviously never been to a casino because if it was true RNG, they would be better off tossing their money down the drain. Not only that, but they had the dignity to show us the drop rates for the black market chests. The game is a game, Pix is the business. Oh, also, I don't use Youtube. and for that matter, FB, 「roast beef」ter, or the rest of it. This continues my annoyance that you go in game to see 'news' and get redirected elsewhere. They might just as well post it in the game. As to if you're P2W or F2P, I don't give a monkey's which it is. I've no idea who you are. Champion or Bronze? Don't care. That your comparing apples to oranges / Dash to Britbot, is, when all is said and done, laughable. One achieved a new meta, that with a little work, most could achieve. The other, simply, is broken while also being nigh on unachievable for most. |
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Post by garunixreborn on Nov 29, 2017 4:29:21 GMT -5
Hey look! As soon as you said that, a pig flew outside my window! I don't know how many times i will need to explain that i am not a P2W, but i guess none of you have heard of that yet. Here is my hangar that i use in all my battles: imgur.com/a/NRMnXHere is my youtube channel in which you will never see me run a dash bot except on the test server (albeit once). www.youtube.com/channel/UCNUl5AKZ8L1uReYcrZ0gUxA/videosAnd if you STILL go as far as saying that i hide my P2W robots and weapons from you, then you really need help because that is just pure ignorance. One more thing, i don't have to explain twice that the dash bots were purposely made hard to obtain and that this game IS A GODAMN BUSINESS!!! Also about the roulette spins, you have obviously never been to a casino because if it was true RNG, they would be better off tossing their money down the drain. Not only that, but they had the dignity to show us the drop rates for the black market chests. The game is a game, Pix is the business. Oh, also, I don't use Youtube. and for that matter, FB, ?roast beef?ter, or the rest of it. This continues my annoyance that you go in game to see 'news' and get redirected elsewhere. They might just as well post it in the game. As to if you're P2W or F2P, I don't give a monkey's which it is. I've no idea who you are. Champion or Bronze? Don't care. That your comparing apples to oranges / Dash to Britbot, is, when all is said and done, laughable. One achieved a new meta, that with a little work, most could achieve. The other, simply, is broken while also being nigh on unachievable for most. One achieved a new meta that completely dominated the field on both sides, killed all the variety you could have wanted and led to the inevitable buff of the tulumbas and orkan. The other led to no serious buffs and still allowed room for other bots, keeping the game fun and actually challenging rather than boring, and preventing the any league below expert from being overloaded with them. If dash bots are pissing you off, then you can grab some zeuses, grab some scourges and just zap the life out of them. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Nov 29, 2017 12:26:16 GMT -5
The game is a game, Pix is the business. Oh, also, I don't use Youtube. and for that matter, FB, ?roast beef?ter, or the rest of it. This continues my annoyance that you go in game to see 'news' and get redirected elsewhere. They might just as well post it in the game. As to if you're P2W or F2P, I don't give a monkey's which it is. I've no idea who you are. Champion or Bronze? Don't care. That your comparing apples to oranges / Dash to Britbot, is, when all is said and done, laughable. One achieved a new meta, that with a little work, most could achieve. The other, simply, is broken while also being nigh on unachievable for most. One achieved a new meta that completely dominated the field on both sides, killed all the variety you could have wanted and led to the inevitable buff of the tulumbas and orkan. The other led to no serious buffs and still allowed room for other bots, keeping the game fun and actually challenging rather than boring, and preventing the any league below expert from being overloaded with them. If dash bots are pissing you off, then you can grab some zeuses, grab some scourges and just zap the life out of them. No, it didn't create a uniform meta... there were plenty of other bots in play... and the most telling aspect is that the Silver and Bronze tiers were protected from them due to the Hangar based MM giving them penalties to push them up. Now? I see so many tankers with anything from 10/10 to maxed Mk 2s in Bronze 1 and all of Silver in my iOS Silver account that I don't even get upset by it anymore... I expect it. There is no prevention of them below Expert at all... One match with a bad team makeup was cause of all kinds of uproar back then... we had no idea how good we had it. Mad Geps? Geez... I miss them. The only reason Dashes are at all beatable with anything other than the Au weapon and Component weapons and bots you mentioned is the rounds of balancing that Pix did before they were released... which is not one of the things they did wrong... it was welcome and needed and I praised them for it, then. Look, you are arguing things that aren't even what most are arguing about... I'm not sure that there is anything left to argue except to say this... the biggest issue many of us have is that we knew the game before it was sold to mail.ru and that is the game we love. That core game is still there... but every new move that increases the gap between major spenders and non/minor spenders just rots it out a little more. With Brit bots it wasn't near as bad as Mk 2 Dashes and Sucktrains, etc., no matter how many times you repeat it. They have changed the game for the worse and continue to... we see it... and we complain about it. Perhaps it may be worth looking back on the forum and checking out how all of this progressed from last year. There was a shift from many folk backing Pix and defending their moves, myself included, until they went from major game changes, to straight up money based decisions. IDC what other games do. I care what this one did... and it has been painful to those of us who love the core concept of skill based, fun, easily attainable, good, mech-based, game-play. They had several ways to monetize that didn't go down the predatory and greed path, that would have (and has been shown to in other games) worked, but instead they have put it firmly on the P2W path. Can they bring it back from the brink? Maybe... I truly hope so. Like I have said in many posts I can still have fun down in the lower leagues and in the 6-Pack league of Customs. But so many folk have left that I used to play or talk with, that have been here for a long time... that did so precisely because of what Pix has been doing. And the market they are exploiting is not good for quality game-play. Telling us it's right and OK because they are a business is great and all... but there are good and right business decisions that ensure a loyal and happy customer base with any product, and there are crap business decisions that sell a lot but don't deliver customer satisfaction. Opinions will vary as to what makes up both. You are definitely entitled to your own... as are we. IMO, YMMV |
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Post by hyderier on Nov 29, 2017 15:01:34 GMT -5
I will start off by saying this one sentence. "The rise of the dash bots now is very comparable to the rise of the britbots in the past" No it is not. I would have 3 Lancelots now if I just had chosen to get them for the Au I saved. Yet I have no Dashes. So if britbots were OP, at least they weren't pay to win. 3 Lances divided by 0 Dashes equals britbots and Dashes are infinitely not comparable. |
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Post by T34 on Nov 29, 2017 16:51:28 GMT -5
As per above. You totally missed the relative availability and cost of bots during the previous meta changes and the current meta change. That point alone comprehensively destroys your argument in relation to P2W provided the new bots are superior to the old ones. ….. and they are. But P2W didn’t just stop at the new bots with recent developments. There is also the difference in match making. No longer hanger strength based and inferior setups are match up against vastly superior ones. There is the MK2 concept. Spend even more and get an extra 20% advantage. And lets not forget the multiple hanger decks. You are twisting the argument by conveniently selecting certain aspects while omitting other crucial bits of information in order to support your message. With respect to the Adrian Chong,.What was said in the live stream and in what context it was said and what sort of questions were asked is up for debate in relation to you using it as examples to strengthen your argument. “sort of comparable” does not feel me with confidence. I interpret that as less alike than more alike. And "you can get the dash bots for under 100 dollars" • A lance was not $100 even if you can get a dash for $100 • First obtaining components requires you to invest time into the game which is a value to pixonic. • Personally I have not seen a 25K gold offer for $139. If they exist they probably come up very infrequently. But even if they exist and they come up frequently 7,000 gold is insufficient budget for a spin cycle. Even more risky if you have a go at it 3 times. It is poor advise to encourage people to budget 7K for a spin cycle. Very poor. This slow collection mechanism will delay most people getting dashes without investing reasonable amounts. Its like the BM. Most will not get to the superchest. And by the time they would the chest is reset. And here by the time people collect a decent hanger the new bots will be out. Could keep going but had enough..... Well did you like the fact that everyone had britbots back in the day? Pixonic CLEARLY stated they didn't want to overload the meta with dash bots by making them readily available. They made that mistake with the britbots and almost every high league player had a full hangar of them. So before you go off repeating the same old "the problems with the dash bots are that they are not readily available" just toss whatever you have heard from phoenix's video out of the window because that guy is full of BS. The points are: 1) they are a business. They NEED to make money 2) they purposely made the dash bots hard to get so that they wouldn't immediately overload the meta like the galahads and lancelots did. 3) Appreciate the fact that they even give us a black market and roulette spin. They are giving us things for free. They have never done this before. 4) if you don't like excessive dash bots, go to diamond league. There you will find less dash bots and more hydras, orkans, gekkos and trebuchets. FUN! Back on the net but I missed a lot and seems like a lot of people responded to you eloquently, maturely and within proper context of what happened in the past and what is happening now. So wont go there because it seems like there is no point in discussing this matter with you as you are not open to reason and the opinion of others. Sort of stuck on the same point like my young son is at times. 4) seems to suggest I have dash bot envy and I cant handle them. Was that the intent of your remark. As in go to place where your bots are still competitive and stop complaining? |
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