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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Jan 23, 2017 0:00:58 GMT -5
With the coming if so many mid-long range and mid-range indirect fire weapons, there's definitely a problem coming fIf any pilot that favors knifing.
Wouldn't a simple fix be to implement similar minimum range restrictions that mortars have to all weapons with ranges 600-1,500?
Say that weapons that have 600-800 ranges have a minimum of 150m to be able to fire? This would allow the weapon to be powerful - and knifers would still get slaughtered if hit between 150m and the max weapon's range. However, if you let a knifer knifer inside 150m of you, you can't fire at them and you'll be dead --- like mortar Tasha are when you are under 400m.
For the 801-1,500M weapons, a min range of 250m be the restriction.
IMO, this is a decent and fair way to keep everything balanced between all ranges. If this games goes to the norm being mid-long rangers, the game will die, as this game is too simple/crude to be played at out of sight ranges - unless Pix adds in telescopic vision and pinpoint aiming so I can shoot out legs at 800m (which us doubtful) ------ wait, I can get that on WoT Blitz......you see where this is going.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Jan 23, 2017 0:11:30 GMT -5
I forgot to add, this min range restriction would breath life the light bot class and it would give clans a reason to have fast interceptors that would be rewarded greatly for risking it all to get inside a mid-long ranger's min weapon range for the kill.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 0:13:25 GMT -5
Agree. Every weapon should have an effective range within their possible ranges. Kinda like how Plasma (mags/tarans) has decreased accuracy over 300M, Pinatas can be dodged at over 200M, and bullet weapons only hit for full damage at 50% of their max range.
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Post by Golden Sabre on Jan 23, 2017 0:50:02 GMT -5
These are all fantastic and smart scenarios....which is precisely the reason Pix won't stand for them. If we're shooting for the moon, how about no more cooldowns, like ever
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carvr
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Post by carvr on Jan 23, 2017 1:18:10 GMT -5
Doesn't actually sound reasonable for non-artillery long range weapons to not be able to shoot at a close target but I like the idea.
Bad part would be that knife fighters would have more(and looks a bit unfair) advantages in battle field. This would lead to a slow demise for long range weapons.
(Don't get me wrong, I'm all about knife fighting. I only have a tt fury as a non-knife fighter but I like having diversity even though I never use a long range weapon, even though most friendly long Rangers are a disadvantage to the team, even though it is easier to take out most red long Rangers.)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 3:13:49 GMT -5
Doesn't actually sound reasonable for non-artillery long range weapons to not be able to shoot at a close target but I like the idea. Bad part would be that knife fighters would have more(and looks a bit unfair) advantages in battle field. This would lead to a slow demise for long range weapons. (Don't get me wrong, I'm all about knife fighting. I only have a tt fury as a non-knife fighter but I like having diversity even though I never use a long range weapon, even though most friendly long Rangers are a disadvantage to the team, even though it is easier to take out most red long Rangers.) In higher brackets, mid and long range bots make knife fighting an uphill battle. The shield bots and Aphid buff brought out all of the Tri-Tri Furies, and the speed increase in heavies made closing distances for CQC far harder than it was. Knife fighting weapons have inherent weaknesses and drawbacks,in the form of random fail/misses, whereas mid-long range damage is a sure thing with tridents,and more or less instantaneous for cannons. Instead of just having mid-long range not able to fire, there should be a penalty to targeting at closer ranges so that they have a chance at missing. The kwk and kang say that they are difficult to handle at closer ranges, this isn't really the case for them, nor any of the non-bullet hoses. I'd just suggest the change on cannon and Mid-range rockets, as the spiral/hydra don't do enough damage to warrant the nerf, Zeus is a lightning gun, and treb takes 1/3 of a minute to fire at it's best DPM. Irl, the larger the gun, the slower the turret moves, which is why an aircraft carrier is still susceptable to high speed assaults, in War Robots, that's not the case, the mid/long range weapons snap to target just as fast as the light-close/knife weapons. In other games, the longer the range of a weapon, the smaller the lock reticule, in War Robots, the lock box is thr same for all direct fire weapons outside of Zeus. That, imho, is why mid-long weapons are seeing so much play in recent metas. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 3:23:20 GMT -5
These are all fantastic and smart scenarios....which is precisely the reason Pix won't stand for them. If we're shooting for the moon, how about no more cooldowns, like ever Skill cooldowns need to be a thing. Automatic reloads for weapons over a period of time (for full reload) is plausible as long as it makes reload-fire have substantially less DPS than a full chamber. Many cries came from the rocket reload proposition, they'd have to see how that plays out before suggesting it for other weapons. IF they inbuilt faults into each type of weapon like this thread is discussing, it would definitely be a possibility. |
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Post by carvr on Jan 23, 2017 3:52:56 GMT -5
Alright, I have no idea how I managed to ignore how strong those weapons are, especially aphids. An aphid platform can literally sit behind a "hard to reach" wall and spew "mediumweaponx1.5" damage missiles. I agree that it would be great to have low range miss chance on such weapons. (I'm aware aphids aren't long range weapons and need to be addressed somewhere else, though.) |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 4:15:11 GMT -5
Alright, I have no idea how I managed to ignore how strong those weapons are, especially aphids. An aphid platform can literally sit behind a "hard to reach" wall and spew "mediumweaponx1.5" damage missiles. I agree that it would be great to have low range miss chance on such weapons. (I'm aware aphids aren't long range weapons and need to be addressed somewhere else, though.) Aphids are now balanced in 2.5, the missiles don't converge as close when on their downward path, and their maximum travel arc height has been lowered. Tridents and 500M rockets are guaranteed damage for anyone that can aim, as their splash makes corner cover useless. Tridents short reload only adds to the problem, as a Tri-Tri Fury can kill most bots in 3 salvos. Cover, and the terrain differences that are commom for where the 500-600M weapons fire on other bots, means getting those 2-3 salvos in (3rd being IN KF range), is easier than it should be. The damage on all of these weapons is, imo, where it should be, its them having no discernable downside(reload time isnt enough) that sets them apart is the problem. |
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 23, 2017 6:18:34 GMT -5
I have a few problems:
-Makes little sense. Artillery face upwards so for those it does make sense.
-Long-range should hardly threaten knifers, likelier annoy. Long-range isn't even viable right now.
-Mid-range rockets are the main problem for knifers. This does nothing.
I use 4 close combat bots and never found snipers more than an annoyance. I like Long-range best but can't even do it consistently without severely lowering overall combat ability, and alas, zero snipers in hangar.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 6:39:04 GMT -5
I have a few problems: -Makes little sense. Artillery face upwards so for those it does make sense. -Long-range should hardly threaten knifers, likelier annoy. Long-range isn't even viable right now. -Mid-range rockets are the main problem for knifers. This does nothing. I use 4 close combat bots and never found snipers more than an annoyance. I like Long-range best but can't even do it consistently without severely lowering overall combat ability, and alas, zero snipers in hangar. There are two main fixes to the rising problem of Mid-range rockets. I can see the chance of pix including either of them to be close to nil. A) Remove proximity detonation so that the rockets have to connect with a surface or bot to explode. No more shooting at air next to cover to deal damage. It would make sense irl, as they are higher calibur dumb rockets with better propultion mechanisms, while Pinata/Orkan rockets are slower and weaker individually because of proximity sensors. B) Incorporate physics so that direct fire weaponry has a parabolic trajectory that ends in the ground instead of just disappearing into nothing. Doing this would affect all non-energy weapons, with their max range becoming the point where the munitions hit the ground. It would definitely make bullet weapons look a lot better, having Punisher/Molot shots go over a bot and just disappear is funny looking, as is being beyond the max range of any weapon and watching shells disappear into nothing. |
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Post by carvr on Jan 23, 2017 6:53:38 GMT -5
Sorry for contributing nothing and being bit off-topic but it would look like the bot is peeing if punisher/molot projectiles are affected by gravity.  |
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Jan 23, 2017 9:12:57 GMT -5
Alright, I have no idea how I managed to ignore how strong those weapons are, especially aphids. An aphid platform can literally sit behind a "hard to reach" wall and spew "mediumweaponx1.5" damage missiles. I agree that it would be great to have low range miss chance on such weapons. (I'm aware aphids aren't long range weapons and need to be addressed somewhere else, though.) Aphids are now balanced in 2.5, the missiles don't converge as close when on their downward path, and their maximum travel arc height has been lowered. Tridents and 500M rockets are guaranteed damage for anyone that can aim, as their splash makes corner cover useless. Tridents short reload only adds to the problem, as a Tri-Tri Fury can kill most bots in 3 salvos. Cover, and the terrain differences that are commom for where the 500-600M weapons fire on other bots, means getting those 2-3 salvos in (3rd being IN KF range), is easier than it should be. The damage on all of these weapons is, imo, where it should be, its them having no discernable downside(reload time isnt enough) that sets them apart is the problem. Completely agree, the lack of downside to the Trident and Zeus is inconsistent with the nerfs placed on all the short range weapons (mags/Tarans missing at their extreme range, Aphid accuracy nerf, Piñatas/Orkans needing pinpoint accuracy). A minimum range restriction would at least give the Trident/Zeus some kind of downside and be consistent with the treatment the short range weapons have had. As they are basically being used as assault weapons rather than support weapons at this point. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 9:18:58 GMT -5
Nice idea, but would way overpower Stalkers. Stealth up to target, run in circles, kill it, run off and restealth to the next target.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 10:08:59 GMT -5
Nice idea, but would way overpower Stalkers. Stealth up to target, run in circles, kill it, run off and restealth to the next target. Stalker currently has no place in higher level play, and would still get melted by knife fighters. Mid range and snipers are supposed to be support, not used as brawlers. If a Stalker gets into the 1-200M range of a support bot, and the SUPPORT ROLE bot has absolutely no allies to help it, or at least be in the stalker's way, it deserves every minute of the back-stab its gonna get. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 10:25:03 GMT -5
OK, but the changes would effect all levels, not just the high levels. That's if levels still exist.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Jan 23, 2017 10:36:09 GMT -5
Nice idea, but would way overpower Stalkers. Stealth up to target, run in circles, kill it, run off and restealth to the next target. Stalker currently has no place in higher level play, and would still get melted by knife fighters. Mid range and snipers are supposed to be support, not used as brawlers. If a Stalker gets into the 1-200M range of a support bot, and the SUPPORT ROLE bot has absolutely no allies to help it, or at least be in the stalker's way, it deserves every minute of the back-stab its gonna get. This is were the disconnect is --- support tanks in the real world have light armor (cause they don't need heavy armor as they don't expect to come into contact with a main battle tank), aren't fast to deploy (as they require setup and carry much heavier weight in the gun), and they aren't accurate (which is why they use HP or fragmentation shells). Howitzer, mortar, or rocket support tanks also require a lot of protection, as they can't protect themselves --- which is why they are not used anywhere near areas where the enemy can't be kept far away (cause 1 modern shoulder or tripod fired RPG can usually kill a support tank even if the shot hits its frontal armor). That being said, I think it is completely fair that a Stalker or even a Cossak can kill any support bot that is left unprotected. The minimum range restriction would make light bots important again too --- and give this game another dimension. As it is right now, you can simply advance with near impunity as the vanguard of an assualt if your team has 3 TT Furies and the other team has less none. |
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 24, 2017 6:48:55 GMT -5
I have a few problems: -Makes little sense. Artillery face upwards so for those it does make sense. -Long-range should hardly threaten knifers, likelier annoy. Long-range isn't even viable right now. -Mid-range rockets are the main problem for knifers. This does nothing. I use 4 close combat bots and never found snipers more than an annoyance. I like Long-range best but can't even do it consistently without severely lowering overall combat ability, and alas, zero snipers in hangar. There are two main fixes to the rising problem of Mid-range rockets. I can see the chance of pix including either of them to be close to nil. A) Remove proximity detonation so that the rockets have to connect with a surface or bot to explode. No more shooting at air next to cover to deal damage. It would make sense irl, as they are higher calibur dumb rockets with better propultion mechanisms, while Pinata/Orkan rockets are slower and weaker individually because of proximity sensors. B) Incorporate physics so that direct fire weaponry has a parabolic trajectory that ends in the ground instead of just disappearing into nothing. Doing this would affect all non-energy weapons, with their max range becoming the point where the munitions hit the ground. It would definitely make bullet weapons look a lot better, having Punisher/Molot shots go over a bot and just disappear is funny looking, as is being beyond the max range of any weapon and watching shells disappear into nothing. Still didn't answer the problems with minimum range. A) I would be cool with that. I am not cool with minimum range. Why do you suggest something that hardly fixes anything when you have a better suggestion in mind(imo)? I'm all in for this. Always felt weird and not immediately obivious to me. B) Hard(just a random guess btw, take it with a grain of salt) to program for something minor. Rockets and missiles should also not be affected as they are fuel powered, unless they show running out of fuel. |
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