|
|
Post by bronzeknee on Nov 7, 2017 19:49:12 GMT -5
I'd like to discuss some ideas to fix the Shocktrain, because this is broken (you only need to watch a couple seconds of the video, I queued it up to the good part):
These following ideas come from Manni and Adrian:
#1 - Remake the weapon so it disables abilities
I really dislike the current design of the weapon because it punishes teamwork, use of cover and corner shooting, fires instantly (which reduces the chance for counterplay, what was the Carnage supposed to do the in the video?), and aims itself after you hit the first target.
I do think there could be a role for a weapon that chains from robot to robot though. Let's say it deals only 15% or 20% of the damage it deals now (to both the primary and secondary targets) and its cooldown is increased to ~15 seconds. But whenever it hits an enemy robot, it disables abilities (except for Bastion, Sentry and the shield abilities for the Rhino, Galahad and Gareth) for say 2 or 5 seconds. That would mean you could use it to catch Dash robots, prevent robots from jumping, rushing, or going into stealth mode, and prevent the Hellburner from activating. All of those numbers are speculative; the idea is what matters here.
It'd make a lot of the robots without abilities a bit more viable, give us a new tool to counter the new robots and add a meaningful choice to the meta, do you want damage out of the medium hardpoint or utility? Also, it'd add an element of teamwork to the game.
If Pixonic is unwilling to remake the weapon, they are left nerfing it.
#2 - Nerf the current weapon by making it deal damage over time
The instant damage the Shocktrain makes the weapon extremely hard to counter, which it turns makes it very difficult to balance. The fact that it chains instantly adds insult to injury.
Instead, let's make it a 500 range Gekko that chains. When a target is being hit it has time to move to cover and block further targets from being hit. Also, targets beyond the first target would also have time to move to cover to block the damage from coming in and chaining to other targets.
Making it a damage over time weapon would allow for counterplay and balance the weapon.
What do you guys think about those ideas? I'd love to hear some other ideas too, maybe we can send what we think up to Pixonic.
|
|
|
|
Post by Danny Linguini on Nov 7, 2017 19:51:33 GMT -5
I like this option better.  |
|
|
|
Post by bronzeknee on Nov 7, 2017 19:53:06 GMT -5
Me too, but Pixonic sold it to people and I doubt they want to give refunds.
|
|
|
|
Post by T34 on Nov 7, 2017 20:08:25 GMT -5
They will be nerfing it by 50% as per their recent road map. but you know what. for a longer term solution maybe it would have been better if they were buffed.
|
|
|
|
Post by bronzeknee on Nov 7, 2017 20:10:53 GMT -5
But only nerfing the damage to secondary targets. The initial damage to the primary is the same, and its ridiculously overpowered as the video shows.
You could remove the chain effect and the weapon would still be too strong.
|
|
rydag
Destrier
Posts: 20
Karma: 10
|
Post by rydag on Nov 7, 2017 20:18:27 GMT -5
They will be nerfing it by 50% as per their recent road map. but you know what. for a longer term solution maybe it would have been better if they were buffed. Bounce damage is already reduced by 35%, that's being bumped to 50% reduction, which is only a 15% nerf on the bounce damage. Just stop the weapon from chaining and increase the range to 600m so you have a medium slot Zeus with charges. It's the easiest and most logical change, hitting multiple enemies is either going to be too weak, or overpowered. There is no point of balance for that mechanic in the game right now. |
|
|
|
Post by AcuityAxiom on Nov 7, 2017 20:22:52 GMT -5
An addition to #2: Give it the Gekko's old overheat ability, the longer you're in direct line of sight, the more the damage ramps up, since it charges over time like the Trebuchet does, it would reward the player with damage for cornering the defenseless at full charge, but as you said: "a 500 range Gekko that chains", and perhaps limit the amount of bots you can chain damage, maybe to 3 or 2, not sure how it'll work though, i haven't encountered many Shocktrains in combat, opinions? I also don't like that it can penetrate physical shields, is that just me? TL:DR Think Overwatch's Symmetra and her increasingly painful microwave beam thing, but with no aim assist. |
|
|
|
Post by bronzeknee on Nov 7, 2017 20:24:40 GMT -5
That is a good idea Shotgun. They will be nerfing it by 50% as per their recent road map. but you know what. for a longer term solution maybe it would have been better if they were buffed. Bounce damage is already reduced by 35%, that's being bumped to 50% reduction, which is only a 15% nerf on the bounce damage. Just stop the weapon from chaining and increase the range to 600m so you have a medium slot Zeus with charges. It's the easiest and most logical change, hitting multiple enemies is either going to be too weak, or overpowered. There is no point of balance for that mechanic in the game right now. Even the Zeus isn't instant damage, it deals damage over time, so if the Shocktrain dealt damage overtime like that, it'd be fine too. |
|
rydag
Destrier
Posts: 20
Karma: 10
|
Post by rydag on Nov 7, 2017 20:29:07 GMT -5
That is a good idea Shotgun. Bounce damage is already reduced by 35%, that's being bumped to 50% reduction, which is only a 15% nerf on the bounce damage. Just stop the weapon from chaining and increase the range to 600m so you have a medium slot Zeus with charges. It's the easiest and most logical change, hitting multiple enemies is either going to be too weak, or overpowered. There is no point of balance for that mechanic in the game right now. Even the Zeus isn't instant damage, it deals damage over time, so if the Shocktrain dealt damage overtime like that, it'd be fine too. Umm what? Zeus is an instant zap, without charges like the Shocktrain. There are no DoTs in War Robots... Unless you mean the Scourge? But that's a different mechanic from the Zeus entirely. |
|
|
|
Post by bronzeknee on Nov 7, 2017 20:38:06 GMT -5
Pretty sure it isn't based on my experiences and what Manni said, but I (and he) could be wrong:
In my experiences, it deals damage over a second or so, and you can block some of the damage by moving to cover after you've been hit.
|
|
|
|
Post by leavemealone on Nov 7, 2017 20:40:54 GMT -5
My proposal nerf main target by 50% and second chain only do 30% of damage, with that in mind have 10 second cool down between each fire.
|
|
rydag
Destrier
Posts: 20
Karma: 10
|
Post by rydag on Nov 7, 2017 20:50:14 GMT -5
Pretty sure it isn't based on my experiences and what Manni said, but I (and he) could be wrong: In my experiences, it deals damage over a second or so, and you can block some of the damage by moving to cover after you've been hit. Do you have a demo of Zeus damage being blocked by moving to cover? I've tried dashing into cover from Zeus fire without success. The easiest way to fix the shocktrain is just make it as medium slot Zeus/Treb cross, single target. There is no way to balance that mechanic in the current game. The best they could do is give it rocket splash damage radius, with an energy damage type. Everything else either makes it too strong or too weak. My proposal nerf main target by 50% and second chain only do 30% of damage, with that in mind have 10 second cool down between each fire. That turns it into a mantle piece. |
|
|
|
Post by BigDud on Nov 7, 2017 20:55:34 GMT -5
Is it the shocktrain that is op or the shocktrain and the haechi combo that is op.
|
|
rydag
Destrier
Posts: 20
Karma: 10
|
Post by rydag on Nov 7, 2017 20:57:34 GMT -5
Is it the shocktrain that is op or the shocktrain and the haechi combo that is op. It would be overpowered on the Bulgasari also. The two bots that can carry three of them, they aren't as effective in pairs. |
|
|
|
Post by leavemealone on Nov 7, 2017 21:05:22 GMT -5
That is a good idea Shotgun. Bounce damage is already reduced by 35%, that's being bumped to 50% reduction, which is only a 15% nerf on the bounce damage. Just stop the weapon from chaining and increase the range to 600m so you have a medium slot Zeus with charges. It's the easiest and most logical change, hitting multiple enemies is either going to be too weak, or overpowered. There is no point of balance for that mechanic in the game right now. Even the Zeus isn't instant damage, it deals damage over time, so if the Shocktrain dealt damage overtime like that, it'd be fine too. exactly,u would like to add let the shocktrain have the same attributes as zues and remove the chain damage, and allow it to fire up two times before it get in 10 second cool down |
|
|
|
Post by BigDud on Nov 7, 2017 21:05:55 GMT -5
I think this game and i stand by what i say, the korean bots have unbalanced this game. Yes, the ember is scary on a fury or a carnage but stoppable. 2 shocktrain or 3 on a fujin... still beatable. But on a korean robot the weapons become unbalanced. Look at the orkan haechi for gods sake.
And i own a haechi and speak from direct experience. The last game i played, i saw some of the red team just give up and stand there near the end of the game when they were in the lead until the korean shocktrain crew came out and chained them all on the centre beacon on the moon map.
|
|
|
|
Post by leavemealone on Nov 7, 2017 21:08:10 GMT -5
Pretty sure it isn't based on my experiences and what Manni said, but I (and he) could be wrong: In my experiences, it deals damage over a second or so, and you can block some of the damage by moving to cover after you've been hit. Do you have a demo of Zeus damage being blocked by moving to cover? I've tried dashing into cover from Zeus fire without success. The easiest way to fix the shocktrain is just make it as medium slot Zeus/Treb cross, single target. There is no way to balance that mechanic in the current game. The best they could do is give it rocket splash damage radius, with an energy damage type. Everything else either makes it too strong or too weak. My proposal nerf main target by 50% and second chain only do 30% of damage, with that in mind have 10 second cool down between each fire. That turns it into a mantle piece. please, elaborate. Make yourself more useful to this forum by providing enough details so we all can understand what you're saying . |
|
rydag
Destrier
Posts: 20
Karma: 10
|
Post by rydag on Nov 7, 2017 21:13:42 GMT -5
I think this game and i stand by what i say, the korean bots have unbalanced this game. Yes, the ember is scary on a fury or a carnage but stoppable. 2 shocktrain or 3 on a fujin... still beatable. But on a korean robot the weapons become unbalanced. Look at the orkan haechi for gods sake. And i own a haechi and speak from direct experience.  The last game i played, i saw some of the red team just give up and stand there near the end of the game when they were in the lead until the korean shocktrain crew  came out and chained them all on the centre beacon on the moon map.  Both quad bots are slow and have huge hit boxes, not really a fair comparison. I'd say the Haechi is certainly a problem right now, but the others are fine in the meta. Oh, and buff the 「fluffernutter」ing quad bots for real please. |
|
rydag
Destrier
Posts: 20
Karma: 10
|
Post by rydag on Nov 7, 2017 21:15:03 GMT -5
Do you have a demo of Zeus damage being blocked by moving to cover? I've tried dashing into cover from Zeus fire without success. The easiest way to fix the shocktrain is just make it as medium slot Zeus/Treb cross, single target. There is no way to balance that mechanic in the current game. The best they could do is give it rocket splash damage radius, with an energy damage type. Everything else either makes it too strong or too weak. That turns it into a mantle piece. please, elaborate. Make yourself more useful to this forum by providing enough details so we all can understand what you're saying . Your proposal makes the weapon useless, and this will sit on the mantle in the weapons locker of every hangar. Sorry if you missed the alteration. |
|
|
|
Post by leavemealone on Nov 7, 2017 21:15:29 GMT -5
I think this game and i stand by what i say, the korean bots have unbalanced this game. Yes, the ember is scary on a fury or a carnage but stoppable. 2 shocktrain or 3 on a fujin... still beatable. But on a korean robot the weapons become unbalanced. Look at the orkan haechi for gods sake. And i own a haechi and speak from direct experience. The last game i played, i saw some of the red team just give up and stand there near the end of the game when they were in the lead until the korean shocktrain crew came out and chained them all on the centre beacon on the moon map. The kbot is broken from the gitgo since the time the bot were adjusted in the test server. The term '' challenge '' you can throw that out of the window. Like what OP said, that all the high roller whales get those extra queens giving them the advantage. now make it no more of a challenge... because they get that extra queen |
|
|
|
Post by leavemealone on Nov 7, 2017 21:46:13 GMT -5
please, elaborate. Make yourself more useful to this forum by providing enough details so we all can understand what you're saying . Your proposal makes the weapon useless, and this will sit on the mantle in the weapons locker of every hangar. Sorry if you missed the alteration. good.. Because it's a really a ?firetruck?ing stupid weapon. What do you proposal Mr. Expert. Let hear your idea then. 50% reduction is not enough it still does high collateral damage , i can pop a shot at red and hide behind a cover wait for the reload and shoot again. rinse and repeat. That all it take for pilot to do. The cool down is insane! it doesn't give red enough window to make their attack, by nerfing the cool down at higher time this gives red the opportunity to plan their next attack, otherwise red just be scrawling away in fear and not take damage, otherwise the chain will do rest of the work because eventually someone will be out in the open . Or remove the chain completely. |
|
rydag
Destrier
Posts: 20
Karma: 10
|
Post by rydag on Nov 7, 2017 21:48:02 GMT -5
Again, the Zeus has the same cooldown of 5 seconds. The Shocktrain takes an additional 3 (?) seconds to come to full charge. Reducing the damage by 50% is the same as removing the weapon from the game, it would be worthless. It's a simple fix, stop the chaining effect completely. Make it a single target weapon, it's very easy.
|
|
rydag
Destrier
Posts: 20
Karma: 10
|
Post by rydag on Nov 7, 2017 21:55:41 GMT -5
Or remove the chain completely. That's what I've been saying since my first post. ? There is no effect like it in the game, no strategy against it, no counter to it. It doesn't belong in the game at all. The only area damage should be splash, if they want to change shocktrains to energy splash damage, the damage would have to be reevaluated. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2017 22:03:20 GMT -5
The Zeus weapon can be blocked. But you have to be aware of it being out on the field, and dodge it just as it's about to fire.
|
|
|
|
Post by Payxonic on Nov 7, 2017 22:16:27 GMT -5
The shooter momentarily stops moving for a few seconds due to the emp recoil and energy consumed by the weapon.
It will balance the uncounterable and undodgeable aspect of the shocktrain.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2017 23:09:23 GMT -5
The Zeus deals it's damage over one full second. If you block or cover in half a second, you take less damage. Also, Zeus can hop targets and deal damage for half a sec to one enemy and half a sec to another.
|
|
|
|
Post by leavemealone on Nov 7, 2017 23:38:25 GMT -5
Or remove the chain completely. That's what I've been saying since my first post. ? There is no effect like it in the game, no strategy against it, no counter to it. It doesn't belong in the game at all. The only area damage should be splash, if they want to change shocktrains to energy splash damage, the damage would have to be reevaluated. yah. A bot with a physical shield up, the galahad will still take damage. It bull「dookie」 this weapon is an hybrid of energy with heavy cannon as hard point . The Lancelot is not affected by frontal shield. This weapon is completely broken. |
|
|
|
Post by leavemealone on Nov 7, 2017 23:42:08 GMT -5
Here a video explaining it in detail
|
|
|
|
Post by ezekielcrow on Nov 8, 2017 0:03:05 GMT -5
Is it the shocktrain that is op or the shocktrain and the haechi combo that is op. I think it is both. The haechi is a magjep on steroids. They threw out all the common sense they had in making the fujin. Speed...check, three hardpoints...check, medium Aphid weapon energy equivalent...check. AND threw in ancile and chain. Theres probably a kitchen sink on board too. Try three shocktains on a fujin. If its OP there, its definitely OP on a haechi. |
|
|
|
Post by [CK]erazor on Nov 8, 2017 2:07:03 GMT -5
That is a good idea Shotgun. Even the Zeus isn't instant damage, it deals damage over time, so if the Shocktrain dealt damage overtime like that, it'd be fine too. Umm what? Zeus is an instant zap, without charges like the Shocktrain. There are no DoTs in War Robots... Unless you mean the Scourge? But that's a different mechanic from the Zeus entirely. I, as a Carnage Zeus operator: Zeus isn't instant. It might look like a zap but if you're hitting a bot that is just walking around a corner it only gets partial damage from Zeus. Zeus is indeed damage over time. |
|
![[CK]erazor Avatar](http://storage.proboards.com/6607038/avatar/ELHKjZdxORLnQBpejRhX.jpg)
