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Post by soulcoffr on Jan 20, 2017 12:00:13 GMT -5
I'm running in iOS, and I think I might try leveling up my bots to their weapon level. It seems like my weapons are doing enough damage, but my bots are lacking in hit points available in the new MM scheme. My hangar is pretty much all 4/6 setups. Opinions?
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jan 20, 2017 17:37:25 GMT -5
4/7 then bots. +2 weapon level over bot level is a great plan, stick to it. But weapons first.
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Post by soulcoffr on Jan 20, 2017 17:48:08 GMT -5
4/7 then bots. +2 weapon level over bot level is a great plan, stick to it. But weapons first. Interesting. I'm wondering if this formula is going to work in the new MM. Thanks for your input! |
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Post by zman on Jan 20, 2017 18:10:28 GMT -5
I believe the new MM is weighting weapons more heavily in the past, so having Weapon Levels higher than bot levels is no longer gaming an advantage out of the MM.
Can't confirm this yet, but I feel like I have seen a ton more low level bots with high level weapons than I did evenly distributed mid levels.
I think we'll find the old Weapons+2 rule of thumb is dead.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jan 20, 2017 19:54:40 GMT -5
I believe the new MM is weighting weapons more heavily in the past, so having Weapon Levels higher than bot levels is no longer gaming an advantage out of the MM. Can't confirm this yet, but I feel like I have seen a ton more low level bots with high level weapons than I did evenly distributed mid levels. I think we'll find the old Weapons+2 rule of thumb is dead. That doesn't make it dead, it makes it relevant. I'd rather have 10 weapons vs 6 bots than the reverse any day of the week. It's not about gaming the mm, it's about affecting the battlefield. |
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Post by zman on Jan 20, 2017 20:17:49 GMT -5
I believe the new MM is weighting weapons more heavily in the past, so having Weapon Levels higher than bot levels is no longer gaming an advantage out of the MM. Can't confirm this yet, but I feel like I have seen a ton more low level bots with high level weapons than I did evenly distributed mid levels. I think we'll find the old Weapons+2 rule of thumb is dead. That doesn't make it dead, it makes it relevant. I'd rather have 10 weapons vs 6 bots than the reverse any day of the week. It's not about gaming the mm, it's about affecting the battlefield. And what if the difference is 7/8 or 8/8 vs 4/9? It is relevant, just ask the 4/12 that got tossed way way up. |
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jan 20, 2017 22:31:52 GMT -5
None of those examples are +2. Not even sure what you're saying here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 22:47:27 GMT -5
None of those examples are +2. Not even sure what you're saying here. If my theory of the new MM only taking the highest level between bots vs weapons into account is correct, 4/6,6/4 and 6/6 are treated the same per weight class. It means MM doesn't care how you try to gimp your gear for an advantage, whether it be HP or firepower, bringing lv X into battle means facing anything else with lv X regardless of the inferior stats on either party. In old MM, 4/12 was approximately equal to 9/9, and 4/9 was approximately equal to 7/7,the theort is, in new MM, 4/12 is equal to 12/12, 4/9 equal to 9/9 etc. |
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Post by soulcoffr on Jan 20, 2017 23:33:18 GMT -5
None of those examples are +2. Not even sure what you're saying here. If my theory of the new MM only taking the highest level between bots vs weapons into account is correct, 4/6,6/4 and 6/6 are treated the same per weight class. It means MM doesn't care how you try to gimp your gear for an advantage, whether it be HP or firepower, bringing lv X into battle means facing anything else with lv X regardless of the inferior stats on either party. In old MM, 4/12 was approximately equal to 9/9, and 4/9 was approximately equal to 7/7,the theort is, in new MM, 4/12 is equal to 12/12, 4/9 equal to 9/9 etc. If this is truly the case, then I'd rather make the bot/weapon level even so I have more HP and speed to go with the firepower. |
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Post by zman on Jan 21, 2017 0:02:03 GMT -5
None of those examples are +2. Not even sure what you're saying here. Nope, because the entire point of everything I said was that weapon levels are now likely weighted heavier than before. Having a weapon level more than one level higher than Bot level is nowhere near as advantageous as it previously was. The old rule of Weapons +2 likely results in an inferior hanger to Weapons +1. Weapons +3, or +4, or +5/6 are likely now equivalent to gimping your Hanger. |
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Post by zman on Jan 21, 2017 0:03:57 GMT -5
None of those examples are +2. Not even sure what you're saying here. If my theory of the new MM only taking the highest level between bots vs weapons into account is correct, 4/6,6/4 and 6/6 are treated the same per weight class. It means MM doesn't care how you try to gimp your gear for an advantage, whether it be HP or firepower, bringing lv X into battle means facing anything else with lv X regardless of the inferior stats on either party. In old MM, 4/12 was approximately equal to 9/9, and 4/9 was approximately equal to 7/7,the theort is, in new MM, 4/12 is equal to 12/12, 4/9 equal to 9/9 etc. I definitely believe Weapons are weighted higher than before, but I don't think it is highest of Weapons or Bot. Interesting theory, but Then I shouldn't have been getting all those 4/12 Geps since my highest weapon level is only 10, haha. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 2:05:27 GMT -5
If my theory of the new MM only taking the highest level between bots vs weapons into account is correct, 4/6,6/4 and 6/6 are treated the same per weight class. It means MM doesn't care how you try to gimp your gear for an advantage, whether it be HP or firepower, bringing lv X into battle means facing anything else with lv X regardless of the inferior stats on either party. In old MM, 4/12 was approximately equal to 9/9, and 4/9 was approximately equal to 7/7,the theort is, in new MM, 4/12 is equal to 12/12, 4/9 equal to 9/9 etc. I definitely believe Weapons are weighted higher than before, but I don't think it is highest of Weapons or Bot. Interesting theory, but Then I shouldn't have been getting all those 4/12 Geps since my highest weapon level is only 10, haha. The chances of MM finding a hangar that matches your rating(in any timely manner) are about the same as lighting a match in 30mph winds. |
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jan 21, 2017 8:47:42 GMT -5
If my theory of the new MM only taking the highest level between bots vs weapons into account is correct, 4/6,6/4 and 6/6 are treated the same per weight class. It means MM doesn't care how you try to gimp your gear for an advantage, whether it be HP or firepower, bringing lv X into battle means facing anything else with lv X regardless of the inferior stats on either party. In old MM, 4/12 was approximately equal to 9/9, and 4/9 was approximately equal to 7/7,the theort is, in new MM, 4/12 is equal to 12/12, 4/9 equal to 9/9 etc. I definitely believe Weapons are weighted higher than before, but I don't think it is highest of Weapons or Bot. Interesting theory, but Then I shouldn't have been getting all those 4/12 Geps since my highest weapon level is only 10, haha. This makes no sense to me at all. My hanger is: - (9) griffin 11/11/10/10 ork/ork/pinata/pinata - (8) patton 11/11/10/10 aphids - (9) Lancelot 12/10/10 Thunder/taran/taran - (9) Galahad 11/11/11 taran/mag/mag - (8) Fury 10/10/10 tridents At LEAST 50% of my matches have me up against maxed hangars of all stripes. |
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Post by jckidd on Jan 21, 2017 8:58:10 GMT -5
I definitely believe Weapons are weighted higher than before, but I don't think it is highest of Weapons or Bot. Interesting theory, but Then I shouldn't have been getting all those 4/12 Geps since my highest weapon level is only 10, haha. This makes no sense to me at all. My hanger is: - (9) griffin 11/11/10/10 ork/ork/pinata/pinata - (8) patton 11/11/10/10 aphids - (9) Lancelot 12/10/10 Thunder/taran/taran - (9) Galahad 11/11/11 taran/mag/mag - (8) Fury 10/10/10 tridents At LEAST 50% of my matches have me up against maxed hangars of all stripes. there is still a "range" for you to fall in and you are banding up. I think they are weighting weapons way more now, and even bots/weapons will become the norm. It also seems like knifers are dying. You either cap beacons, play mid-range, or die fast |
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Post by zman on Jan 21, 2017 9:05:37 GMT -5
I definitely believe Weapons are weighted higher than before, but I don't think it is highest of Weapons or Bot. Interesting theory, but Then I shouldn't have been getting all those 4/12 Geps since my highest weapon level is only 10, haha. This makes no sense to me at all. My hanger is: - (9) griffin 11/11/10/10 ork/ork/pinata/pinata - (8) patton 11/11/10/10 aphids - (9) Lancelot 12/10/10 Thunder/taran/taran - (9) Galahad 11/11/11 taran/mag/mag - (8) Fury 10/10/10 tridents At LEAST 50% of my matches have me up against maxed hangars of all stripes. You are literally supplying evidence for my theory that weapons are being weighted more. Your 9/11s are drawing super stiff competition. Ie you are being weighted closer to the 11s. Now, my 9/10 is drawing quite a bit too, but the number of 12/12s has been going down and I'm seeing feeer maxed guys. |
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Post by soulcoffr on Jan 22, 2017 10:45:05 GMT -5
I've been working on leveling up my bots but leaving the weapon levels the same in my hangar. I haven't noticed a bump in my competition, but I have been able to last longer against the heavier bots/weapons systems.
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situmas
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Post by situmas on Jan 22, 2017 14:50:26 GMT -5
My experience
I've run both scenario in the past;
Best outcome (generally) is what ThunderKiss mentioned. I feel that under classed bots can stay relevant with a good strategy, and with better weapons you're more likely to tally a better score.
I also think this will help you develop in the game; the 'fire from cover' approach is going to serve you well no matter what class bot/weapon you have.
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tttt
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Post by tttt on Jan 22, 2017 16:18:59 GMT -5
Good thread, been thinking about this too.
I'm wondering what the new 'balanced' hanger would be, if all weapons are the same level. It might be too soon to answer this question but...
Say weapons at level 6. Would it make sense if you have your mediums at 6/6, to have lights at 8/6 and heavies 4/6?
Or start with the heavies at 6/6, then mediums 8/6 and lights 10/6?
There's really no practical way, according to the matchmaker guide on the wiki, to level up only your bot enough to make it even. But if it is weapons that are getting the weight, seems like we should be leveling mediums and lights higher.
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situmas
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Post by situmas on Jan 24, 2017 7:42:28 GMT -5
supposedly MM is balancing these factors differently; My experience has been that slightly higher weapon level over bot levels is more 'enjoyable', in game play. Although, I should post a few pic of my battles over the weekend. Totally creamed by a series of T/T lineups. I've not seen so much power in a game (opposing team of course) before.
Still hanging with my thoughts; increment weapons and then bots. I actually think, depending on play style, that lighter bots have a better low level advantage, allow better movement. With the heavier bots your going to want more splash weapons.
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