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Post by GHOST ina SHELL on Oct 10, 2017 11:13:14 GMT -5
K A Z I appreciate the explanation. Also, I recently had a coworker start, and quit, the game in a matter of the week. He asked how I could put up with the constant ?bum-bum? whoopings. I explained that I didn't really have to put up with it. That what he experienced is a, fairly, new phenomenon. He told me that he mechd out of more than 50% of matches in bronze and just got too frusterated. I asked him if I could run a match for him... sure enough... 4/6 reds were 9-11 hangar tankers.
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ma'ElKoth
GI. Patton
Posts: 138
Karma: 87
Pilot name: ma'ElKoth
Platform: Android
Clan: [F₂P] Ø Ca$h = Ø Daϟh
League: Expert
Server Region: Europe
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Post by ma'ElKoth on Oct 11, 2017 2:40:03 GMT -5
In can absolutely understand your coworker.
I created a second account about 2 weeks ago for testing purpose. I was facing a L9 Fujin with L4 Tarans when I was in RECRUIT 2. No, not Bronze but Recruit. There are Gekkos and god knows what all over the place in those low leagues now.
Don't know if that has not been the case when I originally started playing 3 months ago or if I, being completely new, just would not realize what I am facing back then.
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Post by [CK]erazor on Oct 11, 2017 2:47:47 GMT -5
In can absolutely understand your coworker. I created a second account about 2 weeks ago for testing purpose. I was facing a L9 Fujin with L4 Tarans when I was in RECRUIT 2. No, not Bronze but Recruit. There are Gekkos and god knows what all over the place in those low leagues now. Don't know if that has not been the case when I originally started playing 3 months ago or if I, being completely new, just would not realize what I am facing back then. I started around Christmas 2016 if I remember correctly and back then, no fancy weapons like Gekko were to be seen in the low leagues. The game even allowed that I, just learning the game, was making a lot of mistakes but still managed to win a lot of matches. From the impression I was having back then, I thought that this was a game of skill and not very equipment-related. The game was also a lot slower and the fights lasted way longer. Even the now so common Orkans were a rare sight. This all has changed in just 3/4 year to the point, where we are right now. It's like black and white, a total change how the game feels in just about 10m.
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Post by gman4hire on Oct 11, 2017 3:20:12 GMT -5
I to have started a fresh game while i await pix on finding my lost account.. i only began playing 2 months ago and the difference in bronze from then to now is ridiculous! if i was a new unskilled player it would be impossible to gain currency to upgrade and learn.. ide of quit within a week for sure.. my new small account runs a lvl 2 des pun, lvl 1 cossack molot, lvl 6 griff molot pin and a lvl 6 golem pun/molot/ pin. how long do you think my game lasted against this answers on a postcard to pixonic : )
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Post by [CK]erazor on Oct 11, 2017 3:53:47 GMT -5
I to have started a fresh game while i await pix on finding my lost account.. i only began playing 2 months ago and the difference in bronze from then to now is ridiculous! if i was a new unskilled player it would be impossible to gain currency to upgrade and learn.. ide of quit within a week for sure.. my new small account runs a lvl 2 des pun, lvl 1 cossack molot, lvl 6 griff molot pin and a lvl 6 golem pun/molot/ pin. how long do you think my game lasted against this answers on a postcard to pixonic : ) Whoa! That's even worse than the guys in my OP. Pix MM working perfectly;)
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Post by WilsonK on Oct 11, 2017 4:24:29 GMT -5
I to have started a fresh game while i await pix on finding my lost account.. i only began playing 2 months ago and the difference in bronze from then to now is ridiculous! if i was a new unskilled player it would be impossible to gain currency to upgrade and learn.. ide of quit within a week for sure.. my new small account runs a lvl 2 des pun, lvl 1 cossack molot, lvl 6 griff molot pin and a lvl 6 golem pun/molot/ pin. how long do you think my game lasted against this answers on a postcard to pixonic : ) That really sucks...
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Post by northempire on Oct 11, 2017 4:47:46 GMT -5
I to have started a fresh game while i await pix on finding my lost account.. i only began playing 2 months ago and the difference in bronze from then to now is ridiculous! if i was a new unskilled player it would be impossible to gain currency to upgrade and learn.. ide of quit within a week for sure.. my new small account runs a lvl 2 des pun, lvl 1 cossack molot, lvl 6 griff molot pin and a lvl 6 golem pun/molot/ pin. how long do you think my game lasted against this answers on a postcard to pixonic : ) That really sucks... awesome! I must assume your already in the champion league with the caliber of your opponent(s)! You must be a truly exceptional pilot with your destriers and cossacks! Haha
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Post by WilsonK on Oct 11, 2017 4:51:52 GMT -5
awesome! I must assume your already in the champion league with the caliber of your opponent(s)! You must be a truly exceptional pilot with your destriers and cossacks! Haha LOL?! Destriers and Cossacks aren't even in my storage room... But seeing that screenshot with a Full-12 hangar in Bronze league.... mother「fluffernutter」ing clubbers...
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Post by northempire on Oct 11, 2017 4:57:09 GMT -5
awesome! I must assume your already in the champion league with the caliber of your opponent(s)! You must be a truly exceptional pilot with your destriers and cossacks! Haha LOL?! Destriers and Cossacks aren't even in my storage room... But seeing that screenshot with a Full-12 hangar in Bronze league.... mother?firetruck?ing clubbers... 8> haha maybe after the champion league, players get promoted to the bronze league?
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Post by GHOST ina SHELL on Oct 11, 2017 10:27:44 GMT -5
LOL?! Destriers and Cossacks aren't even in my storage room... But seeing that screenshot with a Full-12 hangar in Bronze league.... mother?firetruck?ing clubbers... 8> haha maybe after the champion league, players get promoted to the bronze league? It's the new "advancement" mechanic. When you top out in champion, you start all over in recruit. The endgame being the "Moby ?wee-wee?" leuges.
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Post by WilsonK on Oct 11, 2017 22:01:53 GMT -5
LOL?! Destriers and Cossacks aren't even in my storage room... But seeing that screenshot with a Full-12 hangar in Bronze league.... mother?firetruck?ing clubbers... 8> haha maybe after the champion league, players get promoted to the bronze league? 「dookie」... That would be totally 「fluffernutter」ed up...
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Post by zeframmann on Oct 11, 2017 22:21:54 GMT -5
What's the point in shaming a clan that is taking advantage of a broken system Pixonic created?
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ma'ElKoth
GI. Patton
Posts: 138
Karma: 87
Pilot name: ma'ElKoth
Platform: Android
Clan: [F₂P] Ø Ca$h = Ø Daϟh
League: Expert
Server Region: Europe
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Post by ma'ElKoth on Oct 12, 2017 1:23:43 GMT -5
What's the point in shaming a clan that is taking advantage of a broken system Pixonic created? The clan taking advantage.
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Post by WilsonK on Oct 12, 2017 1:37:46 GMT -5
What's the point in shaming a clan that is taking advantage of a broken system Pixonic created? What's the point of supporting the idea of taking advantage?
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Post by zeframmann on Oct 12, 2017 2:47:08 GMT -5
What's the point in shaming a clan that is taking advantage of a broken system Pixonic created? The clan taking advantage. And? Pixonic could easily fix the problem if they wanted to. They created a system easy to exploit, so it's on them to fix it.
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Post by Estoplast on Oct 12, 2017 3:28:40 GMT -5
Nothing can be done if you have been raised without ethics and morals.
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Post by WilsonK on Oct 12, 2017 3:30:55 GMT -5
Nothing can be done if you have been raised without ethics and morals. Ouch.
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Post by zeframmann on Oct 12, 2017 17:10:55 GMT -5
What's the point in shaming a clan that is taking advantage of a broken system Pixonic created? What's the point of supporting the idea of taking advantage? The point is that you don't make it easy, even beneficial, for someone to do something and then complain when they do it. Again, this is Pixonic's problem to fix.
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ma'ElKoth
GI. Patton
Posts: 138
Karma: 87
Pilot name: ma'ElKoth
Platform: Android
Clan: [F₂P] Ø Ca$h = Ø Daϟh
League: Expert
Server Region: Europe
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Post by ma'ElKoth on Oct 13, 2017 3:23:23 GMT -5
The clan taking advantage. And? Pixonic could easily fix the problem if they wanted to. They created a system easy to exploit, so it's on them to fix it. So, if I go across the street and beat someone that is weaker than me because I can, all is fine? Because it is the job of the police to prevent it and they don't? Harsh example, given. I agree that Pix should try to prevent it. I don't agree that exploiting something is justified by being able to do it.
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Post by WilsonK on Oct 13, 2017 3:50:46 GMT -5
What's the point of supporting the idea of taking advantage? The point is that you don't make it easy, even beneficial, for someone to do something and then complain when they do it. Again, this is Pixonic's problem to fix. Is there even the slightest bit of moral ethics in you?
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Post by Estoplast on Oct 13, 2017 3:59:00 GMT -5
The point is that you don't make it easy, even beneficial, for someone to do something and then complain when they do it. Again, this is Pixonic's problem to fix. Is there even the slightest bit of moral ethics in you? Morathics? ?
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ma'ElKoth
GI. Patton
Posts: 138
Karma: 87
Pilot name: ma'ElKoth
Platform: Android
Clan: [F₂P] Ø Ca$h = Ø Daϟh
League: Expert
Server Region: Europe
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Post by ma'ElKoth on Oct 13, 2017 6:56:41 GMT -5
Trying to steer this away from getting into senseless discussion on moral and Pix's responsibility or not.
This is all about the issue with Tankers/Clubbers . Pix is trying to do something about it with their LQ, but fails. Why is that and what to do about it?
My 2cc on this. I believe the issue is how Pix is trying to address the issue. They are trying to detect the way that people do it.
People are leaving matches right away without even dropping a bot. Pix is checking that and puts you to LQ if done too often. People realize that leaving matches that way will get them to LQ. They find out that if they drop a bot and then leave it will not take them to LQ. Pix is checking if you got bots left when you leave. People realize, drop all 5 bots, then leave. Pix is checking whether you have done any damage. People realize, do some small damage. ...
Whatever they check for, players will always find a way to get pass the checks and still reach their goal.
However, there is but a single fact that will remain unchanged, regardless on the way to achieve it. It's the goal or, phrased different, the result. Whatever they do, their goal is to drop to a (much) lower league, fight their way back up again, then drop again .....repeat. The players cannot change that. Tanking without dropping to a lower league? Clubbing without starting at a lower, non-competitive league? No way.
I believe, for this reason, Pix should change their LQ detection from trying to detect the way to detecting the result.
A player dropping significantly then raising back again within a certain amount of time. A player starting at League X, later being found in much lower League Y, again later being back to high League. Repeating.
Finding this the first time, maybe just set some counter C to 1. After a given, longer, period of time decrease by -1. Finding this the second time, put the player to LQ for C weeks, increase C. Finding the third time, repeat. Ie. player will be in LQ for 1 week, then 2 weeks, .... something along those lines. In LQ, do not allow to gain any Silver, Gold or Keys. Maybe go as far as disabling any bot/weapon upgrade while you are there.
There is obviously all kinds of adjustments that can be made there. From the time within that drop/raise of leagues occurs, the number of leagues one drops/raises down to the time within the player repeats this. There could be upfront warnings, the punishment in LQ may depend on counter C or whatever.
What do YOU think about this approach?
Cheers
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chaosbunny
Destrier
Little Bot Big Guns.
Posts: 94
Karma: 125
Pilot name: Netsuko
Platform: Android
Clan: Steel Cats [CATS]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Rogatka & Fury
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Post by chaosbunny on Oct 13, 2017 12:59:55 GMT -5
Drastically reduce a Tanker/Clubber/Fader/OJ Simpsons damage.
Like, "LOL Hay noobs. I r noob 2, lookit mah level 12 trebs lol sack up iz just stoopid game nublets~"
to
"LOL Hay noobs. I r noob 2, lookit mah level 12 trebs lol" Then unlike last time, each max charge shot does like, 1 damage.
That'll show those meanies.
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Post by GHOST ina SHELL on Oct 13, 2017 13:46:14 GMT -5
Everyone should just stop whining. Tanking is Pixo's bread and butter. How else will they get gamers with addictive attributes to spend their paychecks on an early 90s game?
"Congratulations Pilot! You have been promoted to Bronze leuge! Get ready for meta gameplay! If you wish to be a predator instead of lurking around dodging death as prey, you'll need to buy AuWspIpKeyComponents. Don't worry in this world you don't need sustenance or a good credit score, so pick up that overtime shift and just have it wired directly to us for the newest weapon releases (at level 1 of course well need your first born's immortal soul to upgrade it to level 6). ENJOY BEING AT THE BOTTOM it's a long way to the top!"
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Post by zeframmann on Oct 13, 2017 18:07:27 GMT -5
The point is that you don't make it easy, even beneficial, for someone to do something and then complain when they do it. Again, this is Pixonic's problem to fix. Is there even the slightest bit of moral ethics in you? In a game? None whatsoever. If you can't make a pragmatic argument, then you're wasting our time. It is in everyone's best interest for Pix to fix the problem. It is in no-one's best interest for you to put the onus on players and absolve the makers of the game of their responsibility in fixing a problem they created. So, if I go across the street and beat someone that is weaker than me because I can, all is fine? Because it is the job of the police to prevent it and they don't? Harsh example, given. I agree that Pix should try to prevent it. I don't agree that exploiting something is justified by being able to do it. Congratulations, you yourself just spotlighted the very flaw in such an idiotic comparison. There are laws against such actions, and police and courts to enforce them. It is therefor not in your best interest to commit such an action. Socially, you would also be seen as an aggressive and disagreeable person and face possible ostracization from your community. Also, aside from all that, there is very little to gain from such an action, aside the contents of the person's wallet. Pix has created a situation where you not only face minimal, if any, consequences for committing the action in question, but have made it extremely desirous to do so. Whining about the people who take advantage of it might make you feel good and morally superior, but it won't dissuade a single person from doing it or convince Pix to fix the problem.
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Post by moses on Oct 13, 2017 18:19:39 GMT -5
haha maybe after the champion league, players get promoted to the bronze league? It's the new "advancement" mechanic. When you top out in champion, you start all over in recruit. The endgame being the "Moby ?wee-wee?" leuges. It’s called Mk II, only costs $500 per bot, thats 137% profit...
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Post by T34 on Oct 13, 2017 18:44:50 GMT -5
Just an interesting observation from a silver 3 account. The league table consisting of 100 names included 4 super tankers (one was a marginal super tanker). Based on averages this means that every second game will probably have one super tanker included and thus the results are a forgone conclusion every second time.
Tanking is encouraged and assisted by Pix. Don't want to go into that discussion in this post as that's not what I am trying to discuss.
I think it is important to recognise that the MM is a friend and a foe as it will get everyone to a 50/50 win loss rate over time. Everything else is an illusion. The issue tho is that if a person is defeated by his peers than that is likely to be accepted but not when defeated by op content as that will stick in the persons memory vividly.
Pix is reluctant to change this. We all know why. I think the game has to go further down hill for the issue to be addressed as it is making Pix heaps of money at the moment. So I say let it go downhill and let's hope Pix reacts prior to the implosion. Alternatively we could be looking at the sunset of this game which could also be a viable strategy from Pix. Milk the cow until it has no more milk.
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Post by T34 on Oct 13, 2017 19:22:01 GMT -5
K A Z I appreciate the explanation. Also, I recently had a coworker start, and quit, the game in a matter of the week. He asked how I could put up with the constant ?bum-bum? whoopings. I explained that I didn't really have to put up with it. That what he experienced is a, fairly, new phenomenon. He told me that he mechd out of more than 50% of matches in bronze and just got too frusterated. I asked him if I could run a match for him... sure enough... 4/6 reds were 9-11 hangar tankers. That must have been an exceptional match and not representative of the overall situation. However I would say his frustrations are caused by a different reason. That reason being attributed to the MM where it is now mixing bronzes all the way up to gold. I would love to know if this is due to a decline in participation numbers or whether the MM was loosened to generate more revenue. Something big is going on with pixonic. I suppose we will see in a month or two.
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Post by Estoplast on Oct 14, 2017 4:04:31 GMT -5
Is there even the slightest bit of moral ethics in you? In a game? None whatsoever. If you can't make a pragmatic argument, then you're wasting our time. It is in everyone's best interest for Pix to fix the problem. It is in no-one's best interest for you to put the onus on players and absolve the makers of the game of their responsibility in fixing a problem they created. So, if I go across the street and beat someone that is weaker than me because I can, all is fine? Because it is the job of the police to prevent it and they don't? Harsh example, given. I agree that Pix should try to prevent it. I don't agree that exploiting something is justified by being able to do it. Congratulations, you yourself just spotlighted the very flaw in such an idiotic comparison. There are laws against such actions, and police and courts to enforce them. It is therefor not in your best interest to commit such an action. Socially, you would also be seen as an aggressive and disagreeable person and face possible ostracization from your community. Also, aside from all that, there is very little to gain from such an action, aside the contents of the person's wallet. Pix has created a situation where you not only face minimal, if any, consequences for committing the action in question, but have made it extremely desirous to do so. Whining about the people who take advantage of it might make you feel good and morally superior, but it won't dissuade a single person from doing it or convince Pix to fix the problem. As they call it... "This!!" ? You are thinking only for yourself anf making vague inappropriate excuses. You RUIN the game!!! The game itself and gaming experience for others. Oh... The internets...
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Oct 14, 2017 5:10:48 GMT -5
While I deplore tanking for the sake of simply getting easier competition I actually hope that if enough of this occurs, and Pixonic finally figures out that their ridiculous "leagues" used in combination with the MM is completely unfixable, that Pixonic will have to do away with their ridiculous ranking system and rebuild an actual hanger based MM.
I gave Pixonic a formula for a MM based on hanger slots along with bot and equipment sizes and upgrade averages. No more clubbing. No more "leagues". Instead it makes room for statistical rankings. More ways to reward players and actually get some idea where you actually rank skill and ability wise.
Right now I'm clubbing my way through the Silver leagues with my main profile after finally being let loose from the LQ. It's like being Gulliver walking on the Lilliputions. And although at first I wasn't feeling good about it I came to realize one important thing. Pixonic is the actual party responsible for making it happen in the first place, not I. They created it just so and if people are actually playing it as it was built then tanking is just a part of the game. Because the second I get bored playing with what's in my profile's hanger at the moment I'm as liable to change it up and start right back down due to my damage potential dropping dramatically. And that's because I simply will not use only my highest upgraded equipment at all times. It's just boring doing that all the time. Pixonic made it possible for us to use anything in our hangers and that's exactly what I do, and I will continue to do.
I've just become a tanker. Not by actual intent on my part, but because of the way Pixonic put together their little travesty. Who was the dumb「bum-bum」 that thought up that stupid "league" system anyways? And how could anybody link it with the MM and not know exactly what was going to be possible and exactly what would happen?
I now look at it this way. Since Pixonic deliberately built it to work the way it does then we just have to deal with it or quit playing. They've been hearing us screaming at them about that MM ever since they started using it and they have done diddly to "fix" it. To me that says they are not going to because they like it just the way it is.
So I ain't feeling any sympathy for the noobs anymore. Pixonic wants them clubbed then they're going to get clubbed. By me by circumstance, or by others who are actively seeking to do so. And since I always disregard those stupid rankings, and I'm continuously upgrading, I'm going to ride up and down those "leagues" like a toy boat in the ocean and just enjoy it until I don't any longer.
So go ahead and post my profile on that Wall of Shame when you guys & gals in Bronze & Silver see me tearing through the opposition. Or when I'm running a spread of lights just grabbing beacons and barely scoring and we lose anyways. Won't bother me in the least. Nor will it affect how I play.
Oh yeah. Ya'll don't forget this either. Pixonic has been sponsoring "Crazy Builds" and giving out prizes to players who deliberately screw over other players unfortunate enough to get caught in their maelstroms. What does that tell you about Pixonic's sense of "fair gameplay"? To me it proves Pixonic's duplicity and the fact that the LQ is just sick and depraved joke is aptly named. It sure as hell isn't the "Tankers Queue".
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