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Post by Dredd77 on Sept 14, 2017 20:56:45 GMT -5
Hey folks! I wrote some thoughts about the most recent developments in the game, and what they mean for the business model. Enjoy!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 21:03:06 GMT -5
Nice article Dredd77 . One thing to comment on, though. Once you fight clans who drop all Haechis, Bulgasaris and Kumihos on the start of the match and spawn charges you just like the Gepards would do in the Magnum Gepard meta, your take on Dash bots will change drastically.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 21:09:14 GMT -5
Git gud or die tryin
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Post by peterw35 on Sept 14, 2017 21:23:11 GMT -5
Conclusion: So Pix finally found a way to stop players from stockpiling a particular currency by spending time to play the game.
personally I don't like the direction the business is heading towards. I feel now this game no longer encourages more play time. I'll hold my judgement until further releases and see if this game is worth continuing.
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Post by shakingrabbit on Sept 14, 2017 21:30:59 GMT -5
I've pretty much decided to ditch this game once BoT hits. Decided I'm not spending any more $$$ on this game either. They've made some nice improvements like BR mode but they've also made plenty of suck. I have a feeling I'm not the only one.
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Post by bronzeknee on Sept 14, 2017 21:31:43 GMT -5
I disagree with the idea that this was a game design decision. Because as a game designer, it doesn't make any sense. Pixonic had tons of objective feedback on the Dash Robots, and why they were broken. They ignored it. Pixonic also had large amounts of time to test them. The argument made is fallacious. I think anyone could see before they even played them on the test server that they would be broken, and to think Pixonic didn't understand that is folly. I called them out with factual arguments the moment I saw their initial stats, as did many others: war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/9324/analyzing-summer-roadmap-conflicted-design?page=1www.firebase88.com/2017/03/06/dash-mk-ii-war-robot-make-existing-war-robots-obsolete/Ockham's razor is useful here. Pixonic would have to be dumb to have released the Dash Robots the way they did if it was a game design decision. It infuriated the most invested members of the playerbase and showed a complete inability to process feedback about how strong the Dash Robots actually are and even understand their own game. It makes no sense. But if they wanted to make money, everything makes sense. Release the Dash Robots knowing they were game breaking using the Black Market. If people want one, they have to pony up, and lots of players have with huge sums of money. When they eventually release them to everyone, they will nerf the Robots. So it is pay to win (or gamble to win to be more precise), with people paying for the right to be the first to own the Robots and to have the experience of piloting an OP Robot for a time. And this isn't a one time thing, this is how everything will be released now, through the permanent Black Market first so people pony up! I suspect that the Dash Robots and Black Market made them more money than any other release by far. The problem is how Pixonic made the money. They have alienated and infuriated parts of their playerbase in an effort to milk the whales. But Pixonic needs a large player base, otherwise the whales have no one to stomp. So this is a bad long term decision, but I've said from the start that I don't think Pixonic is thinking long term. War Robots is a short term ploy, evidenced by the shady deals they've been offering for a while now ($74.99 for a Taran and Magnum? If anyone actually bought that they didn't understand the value of those items, and probably felt had after they realized the true value of WSP). I can't wait for Battle Titans. And I'm learning the Unity Engine right now in case that doesn't satisfy.
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Post by shakingrabbit on Sept 14, 2017 21:33:53 GMT -5
Double post
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 22:20:17 GMT -5
The way to go about this is to drop leagues, as simple as that
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 23:00:04 GMT -5
My thing is, this is a terrible business strategy, even if it's a cash grab. Cash grabs give the whales something to blow money on, but at the same time, releasing content in a way that only the whales (and the very lucky) obtain it means you're shiving no one but the whales (and the very lucky) if/when you do nerf the content. It's inviting to gamblers and whales to blow hundreds (to hoe-lee shyte: thousands) of dollars to get content that is starkly superior to everything else available, then kicking them in the teeth with a nerf.
Yes, the dash bots are broken. Idk who else has played the Armored core games, but the dash bots are essentially AC4 NEXTs if they were released in AC2. EVERYONE that had content about them said they were a bit much, and all of the people that defended them here, are nowhere to be seen because they were knocked off their perch with the BM shenenegans. Even without player feedback, even without their Dash, Kumi mirrors rog, Hae has more health than Fujin and carnage with more firepower, and Bulga has the highest base speed of all heavies with firepower similar to the highest DPS bots in game.
Mail.ru has stated several times that they will be moving away from the legacy weight classification on bots, the dashes exemplify this by all of them being mediums. If they removed the legacy system and SERIOUSLY rebalanced all of the current bots in the game, so that it's not "Hey, light bots are trash, here are medium bots with heavy bot firepower and Light bot agility", then it might have made sense.
Their statement outright says 'These bots may upset the meta and make many of the current bots' obsolete IN THEIR PATCH NOTES.
So, no, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt. I can't wait for BoT, just so I can play WALKING War Robots again.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 23:04:05 GMT -5
My thing is, this is a terrible business strategy, even if it's a cash grab. Cash grabs give the whales something to blow money on, but at the same time, releasing content in a way that only the whales (and the very lucky) obtain it means you're shiving no one but the whales (and the very lucky) if/when you do nerf the content. It's inviting to gamblers and whales to blow hundreds (to hoe-lee shyte: thousands) of dollars to get content that is starkly superior to everything else available, then kicking them in the teeth with a nerf. Yes, the dash bots are broken. Idk who else has played the Armored core games, but the dash bots are essentially AC4 NEXTs if they were released in AC2. EVERYONE that had content about them said they were a bit much, and all of the people that defended them here, are nowhere to be seen because they were knocked off their perch with the BM shenenegans. Even without player feedback, even without their Dash, Kumi mirrors rog, Hae has more health than Fujin and carnage with more firepower, and Bulga has the highest base speed of all heavies with firepower similar to the highest DPS bots in game. Mail.ru has stated several times that they will be moving away from the legacy weight classification on bots, the dashes exemplify this by all of them being mediums. If they removed the legacy system and SERIOUSLY rebalanced all of the current bots in the game, so that it's not "Hey, light bots are trash, here are medium bots with heavy bot firepower and Light bot agility", then it might have made sense. Their statement outright says 'These bots may upset the meta and make many of the current bots' obsolete IN THEIR PATCH NOTES. So, no, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt. I can't wait for BoT, just so I can play WALKING War Robots again. Stop whining. If a game doesnt release OP content for whales to feed on then it beats the purpose of running a biz all together. Bottom line is, new OP content = more money for them. Geddit? Will business ever stop making money? No. Cuz if they do, this game will be gone for gud. Drill that into your head guys.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 23:37:08 GMT -5
navyseal101I've played a few games that have spiraled so deep into the same direction, that they are held up SOLELY by money whales. Official and unofficial forums get 1-2 posts a month (usually asking how the OP can advance at all). The game's are still chugging, but no new players dare enter. Whales just troll each other seeing who can get their OTK/coffin nails in first. War Robots's biggest problem for quite some time is how little players are entering the upper echelons of play. New currency for every flavor of the month only widens that gap. Hell, the only reason I keep coming back is because of how much I enjoy the gameplay and the members of this forum, but the latter group, the people I first started out with and learned from are fleeting. I don't find many games I enjoy where the community is enjoyable as well, though I'm sure someone like you would just walk away if it became too rich for your blood.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 23:43:57 GMT -5
navyseal101I've played a few games that have spiraled so deep into the same direction, that they are held up SOLELY by money whales. Official and unofficial forums get 1-2 posts a month (usually asking how the OP can advance at all). The game's are still chugging, but no new players dare enter. Whales just troll each other seeing who can get their OTK/coffin nails in first. War Robots's biggest problem for quite some time is how little players are entering the upper echelons of play. New currency for every flavor of the month only widens that gap. Hell, the only reason I keep coming back is because of how much I enjoy the gameplay and the members of this forum, but the latter group, the people I first started out with and learned from are fleeting. I don't find many games I enjoy where the community is enjoyable as well, though I'm sure someone like you would just walk away if it became too rich for your blood. Well at least dash bots are for the rich or the lucky. At least not EVERYBODY can gets em. At least I dont meet them at all in bronze. Im contented, tho I still meet 12/12 ancilots from time to time. Its annoying but manageable. Im feeding on scrubs (not like my team arent made up of scrubs anyway). I get bot and weapons up > Dash bots get nerfed. Game still gud. Got about a few months to go before I get fury and triple zeus maxed out.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 23:44:49 GMT -5
And btw I dont cash, im f2p and I just started out 3 months and owning 90% of the peeps in bronze/silver XD
Hence, I dont find it a problem and enjoying my games.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 23:47:30 GMT -5
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 23:51:51 GMT -5
Yes I know its laughable but im working on weaps and bots till max lvl and then i'll start raping the top dogs Mark my words, they'll soon get what they deserve. Im the living incarnation of hades.
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Post by bronzeknee on Sept 14, 2017 23:58:52 GMT -5
My thing is, this is a terrible business strategy, even if it's a cash grab. Cash grabs give the whales something to blow money on, but at the same time, releasing content in a way that only the whales (and the very lucky) obtain it means you're shiving no one but the whales (and the very lucky) if/when you do nerf the content. It's inviting to gamblers and whales to blow hundreds (to hoe-lee shyte: thousands) of dollars to get content that is starkly superior to everything else available, then kicking them in the teeth with a nerf. Yes, the dash bots are broken. Idk who else has played the Armored core games, but the dash bots are essentially AC4 NEXTs if they were released in AC2. EVERYONE that had content about them said they were a bit much, and all of the people that defended them here, are nowhere to be seen because they were knocked off their perch with the BM shenenegans. Even without player feedback, even without their Dash, Kumi mirrors rog, Hae has more health than Fujin and carnage with more firepower, and Bulga has the highest base speed of all heavies with firepower similar to the highest DPS bots in game. Mail.ru has stated several times that they will be moving away from the legacy weight classification on bots, the dashes exemplify this by all of them being mediums. If they removed the legacy system and SERIOUSLY rebalanced all of the current bots in the game, so that it's not "Hey, light bots are trash, here are medium bots with heavy bot firepower and Light bot agility", then it might have made sense. Their statement outright says 'These bots may upset the meta and make many of the current bots' obsolete IN THEIR PATCH NOTES. So, no, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt. I can't wait for BoT, just so I can play WALKING War Robots again. Stop whining. If a game doesnt release OP content for whales to feed on then it beats the purpose of running a biz all together. Bottom line is, new OP content = more money for them. Geddit? Will business ever stop making money? No. Cuz if they do, this game will be gone for gud. Drill that into your head guys. There are so many other and better ways to run a gaming business that doesn't involve releasing OP content exclusively to whales. Look at League of Legends, only the most successful game and E-Sport on planet? Or Counterstrike? Or Dota 2? Or SC2? None of the big players pull any of this garbage, it isn't necessary, don't pretend it is. And when you actually get high enough in the game, you'll realize being free to play means you'll be at a huge disadvantage.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 15, 2017 0:08:44 GMT -5
Stop whining. If a game doesnt release OP content for whales to feed on then it beats the purpose of running a biz all together. Bottom line is, new OP content = more money for them. Geddit? Will business ever stop making money? No. Cuz if they do, this game will be gone for gud. Drill that into your head guys. There are so many other and better ways to run a gaming business that doesn't involve releasing OP content exclusively to whales. Look at League of Legends, only the most successful game and E-Sport on planet? Or Counterstrike? Or Dota 2? Or SC2? None of the big players pull any of this garbage, it isn't necessary, don't pretend it is. And when you actually get high enough in the game, you'll realize being free to play means you'll be at a huge disadvantage. Nah. Other than the dash bot everything can be bought by gold and upgraded by silver. End up im still gud as long as im still playing i'll be churning out gold on a daily basis
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Post by bronzeknee on Sept 15, 2017 0:24:23 GMT -5
You don't know what you don't know. I am about 4 months ahead of you in Expert, and am facing Champion League players now. When you face them and their 12/12 Dash Robots, I think you might feel differently.
Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 0:27:24 GMT -5
There are so many other and better ways to run a gaming business that doesn't involve releasing OP content exclusively to whales. Look at League of Legends, only the most successful game and E-Sport on planet? Or Counterstrike? Or Dota 2? Or SC2? None of the big players pull any of this garbage, it isn't necessary, don't pretend it is. And when you actually get high enough in the game, you'll realize being free to play means you'll be at a huge disadvantage. Nah. Other than the dash bot everything can be bought by gold and upgraded by silver. End up im still gud as long as im still playing i'll be churning out gold on a daily basis Just wait until upgrades cost more than 5 million Ag with 2-3 day wait times, your optimism may not last. Oh, and anything you own that isn't premium, or named Griffin, Pin, Tulumbas, or Pinata, you can total up the Ag and time spent leveling it up and using it, and kiss it goodbye.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 15, 2017 0:32:05 GMT -5
Nah. Other than the dash bot everything can be bought by gold and upgraded by silver. End up im still gud as long as im still playing i'll be churning out gold on a daily basis Just wait until upgrades cost more than 5 million Ag with 2-3 day wait times, your optimism may not last. Oh, and anything you own that isn't premium, or named Griffin, Pin, Tulumbas, or Pinata, you can total up the Ag and time spent leveling it up and using it, and kiss it goodbye. At least lvling them up to 10 is ermmm requires the effort only one finger? Dude I grind out 250-300k per game of silver easily per match and it only takes like 20+ matches to get 5m? #gitgud
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Post by bronzeknee on Sept 15, 2017 0:51:05 GMT -5
Ok, let's say you farm 5 million in 20 matches, great! So how fast can you get a single DB Griffin?
Well to get enough silver to level a single Orkan to level 12 you'll need to play 225 games. The Griffin itself will take you 227 games. And a single Pinata? 128. That is 933 games total for a single fully leveled DB Griffin. So to get 5 top tier Robots to level 12 including weapons, you're looking at roughly 5,000 games (I rounded up because you don't start with top tier Robots, you need to play a bunch of games to acquire them). And don't forget that the Griffin was just made obsolete by the Haechi. And new Robots and weapons are always being released that make whatever you've got obsolete. The Rhino once dominated, and that beast took would have taken you 245 games to get enough silver to level it to 12. And people had hangers with 5 level 12 Rhinos.
Ignorance is bliss.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 15, 2017 1:03:56 GMT -5
Ok, let's say you farm 5 million in 20 matches, great! So how fast can you get a single DB Griffin? Well to get enough silver to level a single Orkan to level 12 you'll need to play 225 games. The Griffin itself will take you 227 games. And a single Pinata? 128. That is 933 games total for a single fully leveled DB Griffin. So to get 5 Robots to level 12 including weapons, you're looking at roughly 5,000 games. But don't forget that the Griffin was just made obsolete by the Haechi. And new Robots and weapons are always being released that make whatever you've got obsolete. The Rhino once dominated, and that beast took would have taken you 245 game to get enough silver to level to 12. And people had hangers with 5 level 12 Rhinos. Ignorance is bliss. Lmao. In my league, there is no such thing as haechi, kumijo, bulgasari or any bots from the korean faction (and I plan on maintaining it this way). Anyways, its all gud Farming is a piece of cake for me since I play many mmorpg games last time, hence I know where is the sweetest spot. PS: The only league that u will be meeting alot of whales will be the higher league and im not a part of that yet so im in the safezone. Rather than keep whining about how hard the top league is and all the whales around, why not consider lowering em leagues since u cant bite off more than u chew?
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Post by bronzeknee on Sept 15, 2017 1:07:31 GMT -5
But you said they would soon get what they deserve when you level your weapons and robots to the max... by soon you meant 1-2 years from now by that... right?
Because that is what it would take a free to play player to get five maxed out Robots. 5,000 games, 10 games a day is 500 days. And by the time you reach 500 days, there will be other better stuff to level.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 1:18:51 GMT -5
Ok, let's say you farm 5 million in 20 matches, great! So how fast can you get a single DB Griffin? Well to get enough silver to level a single Orkan to level 12 you'll need to play 225 games. The Griffin itself will take you 227 games. And a single Pinata? 128. That is 933 games total for a single fully leveled DB Griffin. So to get 5 Robots to level 12 including weapons, you're looking at roughly 5,000 games. But don't forget that the Griffin was just made obsolete by the Haechi. And new Robots and weapons are always being released that make whatever you've got obsolete. The Rhino once dominated, and that beast took would have taken you 245 game to get enough silver to level to 12. And people had hangers with 5 level 12 Rhinos. Ignorance is bliss. Lmao. In my league, there is no such thing as haechi, kumijo, bulgasari or any bots from the korean faction (and I plan on maintaining it this way). Anyways, its all gud Farming is a piece of cake for me since I play many mmorpg games last time, hence I know where is the sweetest spot. PS: The only league that u will be meeting alot of whales will be the higher league and im not a part of that yet so im in the safezone. Rather than keep whining about how hard the top league is and all the whales around, why not consider lowering em leagues since u cant bite off more than u chew? You can't get demoted in or to bronze. Once you hit silver 3 you are stuck there no matter the splatter. Silver 3 often matches with silver 2 and 1. Full plasma/Tulu+Pin Griffins start showing up constantly at silver 3, at silver 2 you will encounter more 6/6 to 8/8 hangars(and 12/12 clubbers), at silver 1, you will be fighting against 8/8+ Premium hangars, including Dash bots and the occasional Lancelot. In order to drop your league score, you have to purposely waste time and gain very little silver, so your 5 million Ag in 20 games becomes 5 mil in 40 games. As you level up your gear, repair costs increase exponentially, to where 400k damage will MAYBE get you 150k Ag. Oh, and getting too finicky with trying to drop your league score can put you in the leavers queue, where many of the "Legend league" players slum around hoping to pick on silver and lower players with their 12/12 lance/Dash hangar. The whales and clubbers don't start showing up in diamond+, they show up as soon as you're out of the noob gates.
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Post by llama4president on Sept 15, 2017 1:23:36 GMT -5
Good Article Dredd77 , agree on everything. i would also say that the past experience during the anniversary in which i managed to open 3 super chests and around 25 gold chests, and considering my bad luck in all those openings, i don't feel good at all at focusing my efforts on the Black Market, both as a paying or as a free player. About the business strategy, it's totally in Pixonic's right to exploit the reveneus of a Black Market, i only hope tho it will just lasts a few months before they change the way dash bots are delivered to the community.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 1:31:51 GMT -5
But you said they would soon get what they deserve when you level your weapons and robots to the max... by soon you meant 1-2 years from now by that... right? Because that is what it would take a free to play player to get five maxed out Robots. 5,000 games, 10 games a day is 500 days. And by the time you reach 500 days, there will be other better stuff to level. Don't forget the gold grind! The amount of Au needed to even play the most bots you can per match totals up to 6100Au. At 20-25 matches a day one would be lucky to get more than 30 au from matches unless they're purely going for beacons (and thus, making less Ag), that, with 2 daily tasks amounts to 90-100 au at most per day. That's 62 days worth of grinding on just slots. Orkans are by far the most valuable Au weapon, most hangars run 4 at a minimum, thats another 48 days. Lancelot and Rogatka are the only two Au bots worth putting any resources into, so thats another 50 days and 25 days respectively. Lance almost NEEDS Ancile because of the rocket buffs, so thats another 15 days, and once you get beyond Gold 2, Lancelot is almost a necessity unless you're running 5 tricked out griffins. So thats, at the very least, two months to get a 5 slot hangar, and another 2 months for just weapons, that's just to get out of silver league, which he'll be forced into in a matter of days.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 15, 2017 2:00:01 GMT -5
But you said they would soon get what they deserve when you level your weapons and robots to the max... by soon you meant 3-5 years from now by that... right? Because that is what it would take a free to play player to get five maxed out Robots as I showed. 3-5? Thats too long lol. 1.5 year sounds about right. By then im pretty sure pixonic will nerf em due to the complains of so many whiners lol.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 15, 2017 2:04:26 GMT -5
Lmao. In my league, there is no such thing as haechi, kumijo, bulgasari or any bots from the korean faction (and I plan on maintaining it this way). Anyways, its all gud Farming is a piece of cake for me since I play many mmorpg games last time, hence I know where is the sweetest spot. PS: The only league that u will be meeting alot of whales will be the higher league and im not a part of that yet so im in the safezone. Rather than keep whining about how hard the top league is and all the whales around, why not consider lowering em leagues since u cant bite off more than u chew? You can't get demoted in or to bronze. Once you hit silver 3 you are stuck there no matter the splatter. Silver 3 often matches with silver 2 and 1. Full plasma/Tulu+Pin Griffins start showing up constantly at silver 3, at silver 2 you will encounter more 6/6 to 8/8 hangars(and 12/12 clubbers), at silver 1, you will be fighting against 8/8+ Premium hangars, including Dash bots and the occasional Lancelot. In order to drop your league score, you have to purposely waste time and gain very little silver, so your 5 million Ag in 20 games becomes 5 mil in 40 games. As you level up your gear, repair costs increase exponentially, to where 400k damage will MAYBE get you 150k Ag. Oh, and getting too finicky with trying to drop your league score can put you in the leavers queue, where many of the "Legend league" players slum around hoping to pick on silver and lower players with their 12/12 lance/Dash hangar. The whales and clubbers don't start showing up in diamond+, they show up as soon as you're out of the noob gates. I don't. I just start off at around 980-1000+ ish and play till my batt reaches 5% which I will then on my nox player and leave it to afk while I watch my games of thrones. #soundsaboutright
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Post by Pilot Moby_dic on Sept 15, 2017 2:05:37 GMT -5
Yes I know its laughable but im working on weaps and bots till max lvl and then i'll start raping the top dogs Mark my words, they'll soon get what they deserve. Im the living incarnation of hades. Enjoy the year(s) long grind to max lvl lol
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 15, 2017 2:07:41 GMT -5
But you said they would soon get what they deserve when you level your weapons and robots to the max... by soon you meant 1-2 years from now by that... right? Because that is what it would take a free to play player to get five maxed out Robots. 5,000 games, 10 games a day is 500 days. And by the time you reach 500 days, there will be other better stuff to level. Don't forget the gold grind! The amount of Au needed to even play the most bots you can per match totals up to 6100Au. At 20-25 matches a day one would be lucky to get more than 30 au from matches unless they're purely going for beacons (and thus, making less Ag), that, with 2 daily tasks amounts to 90-100 au at most per day. That's 62 days worth of grinding on just slots. Orkans are by far the most valuable Au weapon, most hangars run 4 at a minimum, thats another 48 days. Lancelot and Rogatka are the only two Au bots worth putting any resources into, so thats another 50 days and 25 days respectively. Lance almost NEEDS Ancile because of the rocket buffs, so thats another 15 days, and once you get beyond Gold 2, Lancelot is almost a necessity unless you're running 5 tricked out griffins. So thats, at the very least, two months to get a 5 slot hangar, and another 2 months for just weapons, that's just to get out of silver league, which he'll be forced into in a matter of days. Rogatka and lance is the last robot that i'll invest my gold in. I'm way suited playing griff than a walking mass of captain upperbody asking to be bombarded constantly from all sides. Rogatka is just too paper in health to be even considered as a gold bot. I've got better plans to use em gold trust me. And lance is not an option for me as of now.
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