tsunkai
Destrier
Posts: 82
Karma: 32
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Post by tsunkai on Sept 14, 2017 14:39:01 GMT -5
First I tried to look up tanking and fading in the glossary. Founding tank as basically throwing games by playing poorly. Couldn't find a definition of fading so if some one could give one and update the glossary. This brings me to my question cause I have seen quite a few thread s on subject.
The basic consensus is that not playing your best to win is BAD. For reason that it harms your fellow blues. My quandary comes in that who defines playing best to win and by what criteria. A juxtaposition of damage and beacon capping are the way the game judges the rewards and all important ranking points. As I have noticed on my meteoric climb to the Diamond levels. My rise has stopped as my 6/7 hangar of silver bots and prizes run smack into the ancilot wall of level 8-11/8-11.
Question one? Is it bad play to turn away from reds to turn and cap a beacon or is it bad play to try and kill another mecha ignoring the beacon bar imbalance? I have done both winning and losing by doing both! I tend towards the beacon side but I have seen the damage side paying dividends in causing a mechout. If the person is trying their best at their strategy for winning i don't think it matters. I really think there is more than damage to a match result.
This brings up us to Question 2? Does hangar composition denote fading or tanking? I really don't think it is realistic to state "this guy is a fader or tanker their in X league cause they don't have a ancilot (insert any meta mecha such a dash bot this or death button that)". Obviously a hangar of all level one unequiped mechs is not valid. But where does line become drawn? My hangar in the diamond league was way underpowered. Was I fading by getting there with that hangar?
Question 3? Is it fading or tanking to use a mecha that does not conform to the meta or will more likely lead to a loss? A large portion of higher leagues hangars have a Lancelot in one form or another. Is it fading cause I use a boa instead? An aside is it is what I have! The second part of the question may seem silly but hear me out. Which mecha are you more likely to win with your tried and true mecha ( doesn't matter which just one you know the ins and outs of and can do whatever task in game you want) or new mecha that may be a level behind and which you have no clue how to use yet (think new rhino pilots which according to posters here has a huge learning curve)? Is it fading or tanking to try new mecha or different load outs? I really don't thinks so but I have to acknowledge by doing so my team is more likely to lose.
I know this from experimenting with nomis and zenits. I had learn to use the weapons and it sadly meant that my team lost more than if I was using a RDB or Pun. The same goes with mecha. The gold chest I earned had a Gepard in it so leveled it a bit and tried it with different weapons to see if it was a fit. While learning I am sure I cost my team games but don't care cause my game experience matters as well. If only cookie cutter are there it will get boring but to step out of box means every game is more likely a loss. I don't believe this is fading or tanking. Also something that I haven't heard stated is that there is no alternative!
What I mean is that there is option of a different place to play. Yes you can choose BR or DOM. But what is the difference? Your stuck in the same MM. There is no real way to learn, test, or just mess around outside of a MM match. Want to try a gecko/pun combo? Only in game. Also you truly learn under fire.
So in the truly legalistic sense where does my right to poke and prod the game end and my obligation to facilitate the victory of five other blues begin? Cause I , selfishly maybe, judge it to be in favor of former. I am playing and maybe paying this game shouldn't I be able to do it my way?
Note this does not advocate trying to lose on purpose in any fashion just trying to win my way which may not produce the highest win percentage the quickest or even overall.
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Post by seanh on Sept 14, 2017 15:03:08 GMT -5
I think as long as you try your best to contribute to the win, in whatever way you can feel you do that best, with the hanger that honestly works for you, then you can't ask for more. iMHO
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chaosbunny
Destrier
Little Bot Big Guns.
Posts: 94
Karma: 125
Pilot name: Netsuko
Platform: Android
Clan: Steel Cats [CATS]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Rogatka & Fury
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Post by chaosbunny on Sept 14, 2017 15:03:47 GMT -5
You're a player, nothing more nothing less. Do you and just enjoy yourself. In the end, who gives a flying 「fluffernutter」 what anyone thinks about how you play? If they don't like it they can always find another game or play with people of a similar mindset. Just have fun and 「fluffernutter」 pleasing anyone. Because then you're playing for them instead of you. It's different if you're squadding as you may know, but in the end you also gotta have fun.
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Post by amidf on Sept 14, 2017 15:09:01 GMT -5
A fader is a tanker who takes the slow route by just playing poorly but not outright ditching the game. Fading is a thing because tankers don't want to play with other tankers in their own special queue.
Playing your best means making decisions for the good of the team. That doesn't mean always making the right decision. It doesn't mean playing perfectly. If you are not sure if ditching a fight to grab a beacon or killing a red before grabbing one is the right choice, you are not a tanker. A tanker wouldn't have that moral quandary to begin with.
Playing the style you want to with the bots you prefer is not tanking. Tanking is lowering your league level so you can dominate games with weak opponents. If you stick to your playstyle and bot choices, you will get to the league level you belong in. That is not tanking. Heck, if you change your mind and start playing heavies and then rise up in leagues, you're not a tanker.
A tanker will switch to an all cossack hangar, sink down multiple leagues, then put in his heavies and seal club. Rises up a bit, switches to cossacks, and does it again. A person who switches their hangar for personal enjoyment and not to manipulate the opponents they will face is not tanking. There are tankers who will rationalize what they are doing along these lines. But they know - and we know - what they are doing. They probably skirt the laws and screw people over in real life too. They're poo-poo places online and offline, and everyone knows it.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 14, 2017 17:05:41 GMT -5
tsunkai Welcome! My thoughts on all this... please forgive the rambling... I think you sound like you have a good grip on the game. A tanker, in my mind... are like those POSs that take maxed hangars and drop to Bronze. Practicing with weapons and experimenting is not purposely fading or tanking. Is there a line that faders can cross and go from "playing their way" and dropping to a lower league, to becoming a detriment to the Blues enough that they are worthy of shunning? Prolly... but it's very hard to tell that from another player's POV, just looking at a hangar shot. I don't even try, personally, unless it is a clan member. I don't have any say in anything anyone does in the game, and neither does anyone else. I just help determine if we want someone who does that in our clan or not. If a player decides they want to drop to Bronze and then club, for example, well, they can do it somewhere else. That's as far as my involvement goes in anyone else's hangar unless they ask for advice or I want to know how a build acts for them. I have tried almost every weapon config, on one account or another... and even on the Leo Zenit Nori I tried on the FB server, I was killing folks and trying to win. I just used the hangar like it was a 4 slot hangar and used the experimental 5th bot once the win was assured, or close to it. Not fading... but still, very much non-meta and not the most damage based build... Same with the Spydra Griff I ran, recently, on my main Diamond 2 acct. So what? Just a couple of examples. The point is... there is a variety of bots and weapons here that are meant to be played. Arguing effectiveness is what we are here to do... but even so, what you play is all you. You can't know A.) how best to counter a build, or B.) whether you like it, if you don't run whatever build it is you are interested in. The players I look down upon are the ones that deliberately try to feed on extremely new noobs with max or close to max hangars, because the tanker lacks the skill of my 5 year old nephew, and can't hang in higher leagues against peeps with similar bots (I'm sue they would say it's to farm, but whatever, I call them no skill hacks ). But, even if I do look down on them... it doesn't make a damn to them, and I don't expect them to care. It is what it is. As far as this forum goes... it doesn't allow threads that encourage or instruct how to engage in un-sportsman like behavior or cheating, true... but it sounds like you are just a normal player trying to have a good time in a game. The Forum is here for that. The thing is, there are many voices here. No one expects anyone to NOT experiment and try new things. The arguments arise when someone tries to pass off dubious and incorrect advice, as a proper way to play. We started as, and are still, affiliates of the Wikia. As such, what works is what we try to stick to when someone asks "how to do better in my hangar," or something like that. I won't call out names or instances, but it's only when the path one takes, and advocates as advice, is very ANTI playing fairly and sportsmanlike, or misleading, that I say my piece about it. By the same token... If someone here says "That 4 slot all Cossack Hydra hangar is crap, no wonder you are losing," it is not trying to dictate what to play, it is pointing out that the poster may be complaining about losing but not running what it takes to win. Some folks look for fights and trolling opportunities, and make a fuss about it.... but they are not who we are trying to help. They have their minds made up. My humble advice: Try the builds you like, choose to go for Beacons or damage if you want, and play for fun or for the "W". Up to you... but realize that the other 5 players on your team probably DO care and ARE affected by your play. That fact is what drives people here to comment on things that are obviously detrimental to the win. If they are pointing stuff out that you don't care about, ignore them and focus on whatever it is that you are trying to discover by posting and on the people who are actively trying to help you. If someone wants to debate and you do to, by all means. But don't let it get to ya if they disagree. As long as you aren't advocating for obvious noob killing and seal clubbing MM manipulation, it's not a big deal if you want to run 4 level 12 Cossie Hydras and need to know the best spots to hide and shoot from. We may gag and scoff and point at you... but so what? If you are effective with it and enjoy it... meh. But if you are telling a noob that 4 Level 1 Hydra Cossies are the key to victory and farming, well, you will draw some ire that is justified. In closing... Enjoy yourself and post about your findings and let us know what you do to handle the league placements you get in with that 6/7... if you want to and feel like it. (That really is a low hangar to reach Diamond in... so I understand why you are asking about at all this. BTW, it takes a good amount of skill to do that... if you DO get some meta builds that are Dash this or Death Button that... you will prolly do VERY well with it.) FWIW, JMO.
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Post by Deadeye on Sept 14, 2017 17:14:56 GMT -5
I'm going to label you a tader...mostly because fanker doesn't sound as cool...and possibly mean.
Good luck to you tader (salad)
p.s. I heard that parenthesized word in my head.
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Post by ♧SGT FURY 24/7♧ on Sept 14, 2017 17:25:59 GMT -5
Yeah, there's no sense in being "legalistic" about tanking/fading etc. No one is obligated to bring as many weapons and hp to each battle as they possibly can. It'd be an all out Griffin-Rhino-Leo fest, and who'd want that?
I like a mostly medium hangar. I have heavies and I have lights. I break them out when I feel like it. I have several lvl 12 weapons that sit in the warehouse. But no matter what my hangar is at any given time, I put it to the best use I can to try to win.
Play the bot/weapon combos YOU like, and do the best you can to win. That's all any other player can expect, and all you should expect from any other player. It's easy to tell who does and doesn't.
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tsunkai
Destrier
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Post by tsunkai on Sept 14, 2017 18:39:30 GMT -5
Thanks all for your insight and the definition.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 19:41:18 GMT -5
No, running a Rhino is not fading.
I think you're listening to the propagando on here too much.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 20:17:54 GMT -5
tsunkai Welcome! My thoughts on all this... please forgive the rambling... I think you sound like you have a good grip on the game. A tanker, in my mind... are like those POSs that take maxed hangars and drop to Bronze. Practicing with weapons and experimenting is not purposely fading or tanking. Is there a line that faders can cross and go from "playing their way" and dropping to a lower league, to becoming a detriment to the Blues enough that they are worthy of shunning? Prolly... but it's very hard to tell that from another player's POV, just looking at a hangar shot. I don't even try, personally, unless it is a clan member. I don't have any say in anything anyone does in the game, and neither does anyone else. I just help determine if we want someone who does that in our clan or not. If a player decides they want to drop to Bronze and then club, for example, well, they can do it somewhere else. That's as far as my involvement goes in anyone else's hangar unless they ask for advice or I want to know how a build acts for them. I have tried almost every weapon config, on one account or another... and even on the Leo Zenit Nori I tried on the FB server, I was killing folks and trying to win. I just used the hangar like it was a 4 slot hangar and used the experimental 5th bot once the win was assured, or close to it. Not fading... but still, very much non-meta and not the most damage based build... Same with the Spydra Griff I ran, recently, on my main Diamond 2 acct. So what? Just a couple of examples. The point is... there is a variety of bots and weapons here that are meant to be played. Arguing effectiveness is what we are here to do... but even so, what you play is all you. You can't know A.) how best to counter a build, or B.) whether you like it, if you don't run whatever build it is you are interested in. The players I look down upon are the ones that deliberately try to feed on extremely new noobs with max or close to max hangars, because the tanker lacks the skill of my 5 year old nephew, and can't hang in higher leagues against peeps with similar bots (I'm sue they would say it's to farm, but whatever, I call them no skill hacks ). But, even if I do look down on them... it doesn't make a damn to them, and I don't expect them to care. It is what it is. As far as this forum goes... it doesn't allow threads that encourage or instruct how to engage in un-sportsman like behavior or cheating, true... but it sounds like you are just a normal player trying to have a good time in a game. The Forum is here for that. The thing is, there are many voices here. No one expects anyone to NOT experiment and try new things. The arguments arise when someone tries to pass off dubious and incorrect advice, as a proper way to play. We started as, and are still, affiliates of the Wikia. As such, what works is what we try to stick to when someone asks "how to do better in my hangar," or something like that. I won't call out names or instances, but it's only when the path one takes, and advocates as advice, is very ANTI playing fairly and sportsmanlike, or misleading, that I say my piece about it. By the same token... If someone here says "That 4 slot all Cossack Hydra hangar is crap, no wonder you are losing," it is not trying to dictate what to play, it is pointing out that the poster may be complaining about losing but not running what it takes to win. Some folks look for fights and trolling opportunities, and make a fuss about it.... but they are not who we are trying to help. They have their minds made up. My humble advice: Try the builds you like, choose to go for Beacons or damage if you want, and play for fun or for the "W". Up to you... but realize that the other 5 players on your team probably DO care and ARE affected by your play. That fact is what drives people here to comment on things that are obviously detrimental to the win. If they are pointing stuff out that you don't care about, ignore them and focus on whatever it is that you are trying to discover by posting and on the people who are actively trying to help you. If someone wants to debate and you do to, by all means. But don't let it get to ya if they disagree. As long as you aren't advocating for obvious noob killing and seal clubbing MM manipulation, it's not a big deal if you want to run 4 level 12 Cossie Hydras and need to know the best spots to hide and shoot from. We may gag and scoff and point at you... but so what? If you are effective with it and enjoy it... meh. But if you are telling a noob that 4 Level 1 Hydra Cossies are the key to victory and farming, well, you will draw some ire that is justified. In closing... Enjoy yourself and post about your findings and let us know what you do to handle the league placements you get in with that 6/7... if you want to and feel like it. (That really is a low hangar to reach Diamond in... so I understand why you are asking about at all this. BTW, it takes a good amount of skill to do that... if you DO get some meta builds that are Dash this or Death Button that... you will prolly do VERY well with it.) FWIW, JMO. I would like to point out that those "feeders" whom u normies call em "tankers" or whatsoever reasons are caused by people who blast holes in their wallet yet to recover those holes within seconds. The problem arises are from players who overused DB and PDB ancilots meta in almost every game. When someone is being pushed to a corner long enough, they will either 'fight or flight'. Thus lowering their leagues to farm or should I say "fight" newbies with the skills or experience they learnt from higher leagues. Or on the other hand, quit "flight" war robots completely. Without knowing the root of the causes it is biased to say that u despise "tankers" in anyway because u didnt been through that cycle. And oh yes, 12/12 ancilots aren't a rare sight even on silver or gold leagues nowadays. And also skillz? Meh. This game is about p2w brah, no such thing as skillz. U just need a single press of a red button to end a bot. Unleash full salvo of pikans, PDB and u win. Now tell me, how does that translate to fair gaming? I just started out 3 months ago and i'm already a self declared commander of the Navy SEAL. To top that off I dont spend a single dime on this game. Whatever works well for me I would stick with that. Peace out yo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 20:31:49 GMT -5
and i'm already a self declared commander of the Navy SEAL. To top that off I dont spend a single dime on this game. Whatever works well for me I would stick with that. Peace out yo. First of all, don't bullcrap on stuff you don't know about. There is no such thing as a 'Self-declared commander' / officer in the Navy SEALS. The US Navy picks who's the best through complicated training, not having any random soldier 'Self Declare' themselves as a leader. navyseals.com/buds/become-a-seal-officer/
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 20:33:23 GMT -5
and i'm already a self declared commander of the Navy SEAL. To top that off I dont spend a single dime on this game. Whatever works well for me I would stick with that. Peace out yo. First of all, don't bullcrap on stuff you don't know about. There is no such thing as a 'Self-declared commander' / officer in the Navy SEALS. The US Navy picks who's the best through complicated training, not having any random soldier 'Self Declare' themselves as a leader. navyseals.com/buds/become-a-seal-officer/Im the best in my league, no one can stop me. Thats why im a self declared commander of the Navy SEAL get it?
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 20:34:49 GMT -5
One press of a red button is sufficient enough to kill a bot. That is equivalent to a 4 star general gameplay btw.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 20:35:36 GMT -5
First of all, don't bullcrap on stuff you don't know about. There is no such thing as a 'Self-declared commander' / officer in the Navy SEALS. The US Navy picks who's the best through complicated training, not having any random soldier 'Self Declare' themselves as a leader. navyseals.com/buds/become-a-seal-officer/Im the best in my league, no one can stop me. Thats why im a self declared commander of the Navy SEAL get it? That isn't a good metaphor. Also, I saw some of the pictures you were posting about the Bronze League tankers you were fighting. Being the best in Bronze League or Silver League isn't saying much...
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 20:41:14 GMT -5
Im the best in my league, no one can stop me. Thats why im a self declared commander of the Navy SEAL get it? That isn't a good metaphor. Also, I saw some of the pictures you were posting about the Bronze League tankers you were fighting. Being the best in Bronze League or Silver League isn't saying much... Can u do 900k+ dmg with a single bot throughout the match with a press of a red button with lvl7 & 8 pikans? I doubt u can do so without dying prematurely. So yeah there u have it.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 20:46:44 GMT -5
Im the best in my league, no one can stop me. Thats why im a self declared commander of the Navy SEAL get it? That isn't a good metaphor. Also, I saw some of the pictures you were posting about the Bronze League tankers you were fighting. Being the best in Bronze League or Silver League isn't saying much... No one in my league can accomplish this feat. That makes me superior than any other players.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 20:47:42 GMT -5
That isn't a good metaphor. Also, I saw some of the pictures you were posting about the Bronze League tankers you were fighting. Being the best in Bronze League or Silver League isn't saying much... No one in my league can accomplish this feat. That makes me superior than any other players. Why don't you post a picture of the hangar you used to achieve that score?
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 20:49:49 GMT -5
No one in my league can accomplish this feat. That makes me superior than any other players. Why don't you post a picture of the hangar you used to achieve that score? U can check out on the repair cost. I only used a griffin to accomplish that. And it was just L7 pinatas & L8 orkans
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 20:51:12 GMT -5
No one in my league can accomplish this feat. That makes me superior than any other players. Why don't you post a picture of the hangar you used to achieve that score? See? I just started out 3 mths ago
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 20:51:24 GMT -5
Why don't you post a picture of the hangar you used to achieve that score? U can check out on the repair cost. I only used a griffin to accomplish that. And it was just L7 pinatas & L8 orkans I cannot tell what's in your hangar just by the repair costs. Please post your hangar to prove your credibility. Edit: I mean your entire hangar. The one that has your League rating and shows all your bots.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 21:01:34 GMT -5
U can check out on the repair cost. I only used a griffin to accomplish that. And it was just L7 pinatas & L8 orkans I cannot tell what's in your hangar just by the repair costs. Please post your hangar to prove your credibility. Edit: I mean your entire hangar. The one that has your League rating and shows all your bots. What for do I need to ss my whole hangar when im just telling u what I used to achieve that feat lol. That repair costs is for one heavy bot as u can see.
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tsunkai
Destrier
Posts: 82
Karma: 32
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Post by tsunkai on Sept 14, 2017 21:30:25 GMT -5
I also would like to see your hangar cause I wonder if you have five slots or used your gold on orkans cause I haven't been able to afford more the one gold weapon working on my second okran and leveling my first. I still think that at higher leagues a five slot is worth more than 3 high bots cause the reds will have 5 quality bots and if you don't you mech out.
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Post by shakingrabbit on Sept 14, 2017 21:47:03 GMT -5
I don't care who is a tanker/fader. People are just playing the game Pix gave em.
Pix doesn't care. They love the MM. They have state-sponsored seal clubbing. They have/had some mysterious other queue that was supposedly some form of punishment but not really. Personally I think they WANT the player frustration to induce players to buy something.
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Post by amidf on Sept 14, 2017 22:12:10 GMT -5
Somebody in this thread has terrible interpersonal skills. I'm not saying who it is. I wouldn't want to attack anyone. Maybe it's me.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 22:26:31 GMT -5
I don't care who is a tanker/fader. People are just playing the game Pix gave em. Pix doesn't care. They love the MM. They have state-sponsored seal clubbing. They have/had some mysterious other queue that was supposedly some form of punishment but not really. Personally I think they WANT the player frustration to induce players to buy something. And im one of them. Tho I dont consider myself to be a sealclubber as I just started out 3 months ago without spending a single dime on this game. Im just a natural talented and skilled commander. Just press the button thats all I need to destroy a robot
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Post by shakingrabbit on Sept 14, 2017 22:30:37 GMT -5
I don't care who is a tanker/fader. People are just playing the game Pix gave em. Pix doesn't care. They love the MM. They have state-sponsored seal clubbing. They have/had some mysterious other queue that was supposedly some form of punishment but not really. Personally I think they WANT the player frustration to induce players to buy something. And im one of them. Tho I dont consider myself to be a sealclubber as I just started out 3 months ago without spending a single dime on this game. Im just a natural talented and skilled commander. Just press the button thats all I need to destroy a robot I don't really care that you tank. If it makes you feel good about yourself, whatever. Everybody needs some sort of validation I guess. You got gud son.
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Post by navyseal101 on Sept 14, 2017 22:54:48 GMT -5
And im one of them. Tho I dont consider myself to be a sealclubber as I just started out 3 months ago without spending a single dime on this game. Im just a natural talented and skilled commander. Just press the button thats all I need to destroy a robot I don't really care that you tank. If it makes you feel good about yourself, whatever. Everybody needs some sort of validation I guess. You got gud son. Yup including u. Deep down u know u need it.
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Post by Diablo86 on Sept 14, 2017 23:24:44 GMT -5
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Post by hyderier on Sept 14, 2017 23:46:54 GMT -5
As long as you are not hoping for, and working towards blues losing, it's not really tanking.
Ask yourself honestly, will you be happier to get -22 on losing side, or +2 on winning side? Will you be happier to get +2 than +3 on winning side? If the first, you probably are a in a danger of being a tanker PoS. If you actually work towards the first, then you definitely are that.
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