inspirace
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Post by inspirace on Sept 13, 2017 10:00:45 GMT -5
If you were trying to limit damage, the DB's are NOT the way to go. Should've loaded up on gekkos and spirals. hmm, these days Gekkos can actually file up damages (and let the team lose, the exact opposite of what I would like to achieve) ... and a too drastic changes to weapons I am not used to would harm the win%. but I would consider your suggestion if I still climb after the introduction of a Stalker, thanks for the comment! EDIT: thinking about it, you are right, the turning point this account begin to rise was when I bought both two Orkans for the Rhino. maybe I should try something else (but Rhino is fun to drive and Orkans fit best to a Rhino...) (will think more about it),
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inspirace
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Post by inspirace on Sept 13, 2017 10:12:46 GMT -5
so to my question your answer is that there is no way to stay in, or lower, a league standing without harming the blue team. fine. but I cannot agree with one particular point (the underlined). I think there is a way to run a beacon-oriented hanger without harming and actually helping the blue team. you may have imagined an extreme, like all light bot hanger, but I am not planning to run such a thing. also, I'd like to point out that extreme dmg-seeking is as harmful as extreme beacon-running play. it's like " beacon capping is all up to you guys" - a very common mindset who harvest silvers by bringing out a maxed Treb Fury in a map like PP, sitting on the hill all the time. I am not talking about Champions league, where a slight slip out of meta may mean an intention of tanking, where Ancilots are beacon runners. this is mid-Diamond league, where there is still room for some flexibility. what I aim to achieve is not dropping leagues in one day. even if dropping is possible at all, it would be very slow process. perhaps zer00eyz put it the best: stop chasing damage, start chasing win. I aim to build a hanger that does less damage, cap more beacons, and win more. ideally, with each win I gain small league standing and with each loss I lose -14 or -19 points (assuming I capped some beacons in a losing effort). this will at least slow my league progression. and if I lose during squading with clanmates (high chance if we keep meeting full Champion squads as a couple nights ago), my league standing may actually dropping. the change I am going to try is to add a Stalker, replacing the brawler Leo, and playing DM. and I will stop upgrading main gears. so far I had two solo wins, placed 5th and 3rd in dmg, with most beacons in both matches (and 1W 2L squading). I will see how it goes, You need to switch your focus to helping your team out so that you are still contributing. 1. Running a beacon capper. Already been said. Not saying run 5 Stalkers, just 1 maybe, and maybe a faster hanger like a Rogatka instead of Griffin. 2. Run Thunder Carnage or Punisher Griffin. Both make excellent Ancile poppers. 3. Get dangerous beacons. Run that Rhino fast to centre of Yamantau or Shenzhen. Most games are won by whoever is gutsy enough to get it first. 4. Break that Lancelot shield. Help your teammates out by choosing to target the frontal shield of Lancelots. Let them get all the juicy Griffins and the meaty gooey insides of Lancelots. Can't tell you how many times I've been shooting at shield bots all game and getting no damage. 5. Be the vanguard. Vanguard means in the front, the first one. Lead the assault with your knife-fighting bots. Yes, you can still have a total knife-fighting hanger and still do good for your team. Someone has to be the first bot to lead a charge and die a quick and honourable death. 6. Run an Ancile Carnage and help your teammates live longer. Your teammates will appreciate you. 7. Hold down the fort. Get that Ancile Raijin and sit on important beacons. Yamantau comes to mind. Also doesn't have to be with that bot. Sometimes, one bot needs to stay behind to defend a beacon and deter reds from capturing it. Moon map centre beacon, the top level comes to mind. Stay behind and hold it up top so some red down below doesn't turn it back. It's a thankless job, but someone needs to do it. 8. Volunteer for dangerous missions. If there's a RDB Griffin or gekko Leo taking out half your team, gun for him and try to take him out. This will usually put you in range of multiple knife-fighters for red plus all their long range in the back. This isn't a suicide mission because you do need to take out your target. So you still need to play smart and approach carefully. 9. Drop in your support bots first like Treb Fury. Take out their long range. This is helping your team remove annoying snipers and RDB Griffins at the beginning of matches. If the match ends early, usually the knife-fighters on your team will outscore you. Doesn't work on long maps though. 10. Just to make this a top 10 list, I'll add one more for ya. Have fun. Don't be afraid to try different bots and set-ups. If you've always wanted to run a Rhino but lacks the skillz, do it. Ironically, I do all the opposite when I am going for damage and trying to move up in Masters. thanks for a thorough tips as usual (and with paragraphs and bullet points!) yes, I plan to do what you said
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Post by Uhnonimis on Sept 13, 2017 10:51:16 GMT -5
I have not seen so many distasteful posts in one thread in quite a while.
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Post by zer00eyz on Sept 13, 2017 10:56:10 GMT -5
I suggest running a capping hanger, because I RUN A CAPPING HANGER.
4 lights, one medium, sometimes 5 lights. Today I'll be loading up a few heavies to clear a task and back to it.
First of all, my win rate is probably the best metric around my "contribution to the win". I rarely drop below win rate %60 and can hit and maintain %70. What screws up my win rate more than anything else is me playing like trash, or literal bad luck --- together it is a deadly combination and might take me down to %50.
So having me, and my capping hanger may make you groan at the start of a match, but having me on your team will tip the balance of a game.
BR vs DM: The capping hanger doesn't matter here that much. I oddly have a higher win rate in BR, BR will push my win rate UP and DM will push it down ~%4 +/-2. DM will get me more gold than BR.
This thread seems to contain a lot of advice about how "fading is bad" and the hoops you should jump through to avoid it.
The issue is that MM is so horribly broken from the player perspective that "fading" doesn't really matter, because the system is "broken". Case in point: I ended up in two matches yesterday (one BR one DM) where I got the top spot and 10 au in a 6 on 6 game. I was the ONLY diamond player in those games mixed in with silver and gold players, and they were both over in under 5 minutes with super low damage scores (5 beacon leads will do that). Though 10au is uncommon, being the one (or select) diamond player in gold and silver games is a fairly frequent occurrence for me, and it is rare that I finish in the top 3 spots even in those games.
A hanger full of lights isn't "only" good for capping, it makes an amazing flanker as well. Popping out from behind one of your fat teammates to make something that is a threat to them turn is ONLY to your teams benefit. I can't tell you how many times I have appeared from behind a carnage to take pot shots at a plasma griff only to have them turn and shoot at me (mistake) and have both of us survive rather than the carnage die. I can't tell you how often a lance pilot will turn to shoot at a gary only to have it dive for cover and get blown up with shots from the side.
Because your gold poor for now, what should you run to get caps? Well your first bot will always DIE to withering fire. Everyone loves to kill the capper: make it fast, and make it long range! I have run a Schütze with long range weapons before (for fun) and it can be just as effective as a stalker if not more so because people tend to stop charging things that shoot back. You don't have to burn your only stalker as a sacrifice and those early beacons can be the difference between a win and a loss.
Having a medium or two will help you (and your team). Boa's are quick enough to do the job and easy to arm, a carnage can cap as well (and defend) and the shield gives you time to linger on the battlefield. The worst thing you can do however is to mech out too soon (and thats easy in lights). Having something that can let you play a support/supression role is helpful. Hydra's and Molots are great for this, you can linger back from the action and still be of utility to your team, even better if you throw them on a fujin with it's bubble for support.
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Post by mechtout on Sept 13, 2017 11:12:30 GMT -5
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inspirace
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Post by inspirace on Sept 13, 2017 11:23:08 GMT -5
your point is? what I am trying to discuss here is not how to lose, but how to win without focussing on damage. thanks,
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Post by Koalabear on Sept 13, 2017 11:30:42 GMT -5
You could also use the same bots, but unleveled versions of the weapons. That way, you can play like your normally do, but deal less damage. With a 7/7 hangar, I usually average about 300k to 400k damage per game. That one time I almost got to a million was a total fluke - one that I have not been able to come close to again.
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inspirace
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Post by inspirace on Sept 13, 2017 11:33:08 GMT -5
I suggest running a capping hanger, because I RUN A CAPPING HANGER. 4 lights, one medium, sometimes 5 lights. Today I'll be loading up a few heavies to clear a task and back to it. First of all, my win rate is probably the best metric around my "contribution to the win". I rarely drop below win rate %60 and can hit and maintain %70. What screws up my win rate more than anything else is me playing like trash, or literal bad luck --- together it is a deadly combination and might take me down to %50. So having me, and my capping hanger may make you groan at the start of a match, but having me on your team will tip the balance of a game. BR vs DM: The capping hanger doesn't matter here that much. I oddly have a higher win rate in BR, BR will push my win rate UP and DM will push it down ~%4 +/-2. DM will get me more gold than BR. This thread seems to contain a lot of advice about how "fading is bad" and the hoops you should jump through to avoid it. The issue is that MM is so horribly broken from the player perspective that "fading" doesn't really matter, because the system is "broken". Case in point: I ended up in two matches yesterday (one BR one DM) where I got the top spot and 10 au in a 6 on 6 game. I was the ONLY diamond player in those games mixed in with silver and gold players, and they were both over in under 5 minutes with super low damage scores (5 beacon leads will do that). Though 10au is uncommon, being the one (or select) diamond player in gold and silver games is a fairly frequent occurrence for me, and it is rare that I finish in the top 3 spots even in those games. A hanger full of lights isn't "only" good for capping, it makes an amazing flanker as well. Popping out from behind one of your fat teammates to make something that is a threat to them turn is ONLY to your teams benefit. I can't tell you how many times I have appeared from behind a carnage to take pot shots at a plasma griff only to have them turn and shoot at me (mistake) and have both of us survive rather than the carnage die. I can't tell you how often a lance pilot will turn to shoot at a gary only to have it dive for cover and get blown up with shots from the side. Because your gold poor for now, what should you run to get caps? Well your first bot will always DIE to withering fire. Everyone loves to kill the capper: make it fast, and make it long range! I have run a Schütze with long range weapons before (for fun) and it can be just as effective as a stalker if not more so because people tend to stop charging things that shoot back. You don't have to burn your only stalker as a sacrifice and those early beacons can be the difference between a win and a loss. Having a medium or two will help you (and your team). Boa's are quick enough to do the job and easy to arm, a carnage can cap as well (and defend) and the shield gives you time to linger on the battlefield. The worst thing you can do however is to mech out too soon (and thats easy in lights). Having something that can let you play a support/supression role is helpful. Hydra's and Molots are great for this, you can linger back from the action and still be of utility to your team, even better if you throw them on a fujin with it's bubble for support. thanks for the post. to me four lights would be too much :/ right now, Boa, Rhino, Stalker will do the capping in my lineup, and Pun and RDB Griffs will provide support/suppression/mid-range. a Carn is being upgraded in the background, and when I have enough gold, I would add a Rog in the mix, perhaps replacing the RDB Griff or Rhino. will see...
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inspirace
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Post by inspirace on Sept 13, 2017 11:38:08 GMT -5
You could also use the same bots, but unleveled versions of the weapons. That way, you can play like your normally do, but deal less damage. With a 7/7 hangar, I usually average about 300k to 400k damage per game. That one time I almost got to a million was a total fluke - one that I have not been able to come close to again. thanks for the comment, but I am afraid using unleveled weapon may harm the win%. but I do plan to stop the upgrade (currently 8.5/8.5), which is inevitable, too, with the little Ag output in a non-paying account,
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Post by zer00eyz on Sept 13, 2017 11:47:42 GMT -5
thanks for the post. to me four lights would be too much :/ right now, Boa, Rhino, Stalker will do the capping in my lineup, and Pun and RDB Griffs will provide support/suppression/mid-range. a Carn is being upgraded in the background, and when I have enough gold, I would add a Rog in the mix, perhaps replacing the RDB Griff or Rhino. will see... I am running 2 garys, a jessie, a stalker and a carnage for a fair bit of my games, not something your going to be able to do on the economy package. Pay attention to how quick the leading capper dies, even your rhino is going to face withering fire. If your getting melted out of the gate (you will) then don't be afraid to throw in something disposable... 2-3 days of leveling can make a cossack hard enough to survive an initial blast or two. 4 lights might be too many but one might not be enough to get the job done.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 13, 2017 12:37:17 GMT -5
See... fading is one of those Grey Line scenarios.
Keeping an account in a specific place (for... say, a 2nd low league squad account, or something similar) is difficult because of the way the Leagues are designed to push you up if you play well, win or lose. So, if you have any skill you will rise without too much effort or upgrading of weapons. It is almost a guarantee up to a certain point.
Well, the underlying thoughts of the forum users is that anything other than pushing hard at all times is unethical. (I'm painting in the broad strokes of generality here, so if you don't agree, you don't have to tell me, I know it's not 100% across the boards.)
So, it seems that both Pix and the majority of players, here, would see it as either not acceptable or not desired.
HOWEVER... I distinctly remember Pix saying when the Leagues were created, something like "you can run what you want, the MM will, eventually, place you where you should be." Pretty vague statement, really, but it certainly gives the impression that you can run low level bots and weapons and end up in a comparable league, to me. In fact, the implication is that it is designed that way.
Thing is, there isn't really any set level for weapons or bots in any league... so it almost becomes a moot point. Levels of experience and skill become the major differences in leagues, from what I have seen. Which, if you think about it, is really where any truly valid complaints will stem from: vet vs noobs, AKA, smurfing, is generally seen as a low ethic way to play.
My general thoughts on it vary from day to day and case to case... but... typically, I think that if you are doing it to train your new folks, then I don't look at it quite as negatively as if you are trying to 'pwn noobz' or farm.
As to how you do it.... ethically? I honestly can't say or add more than what has been said already. Only a loss will get you to fall, so there is really no way to not screw someone else's game up and drop with any speed. Also, any of the ways that would have caused the least impact and still give the game a chance to replace the player, even if late at the beginning, are a path to the LQ. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.
I can't see a truly ethical way to cause others to lose... so... you just have to judge your purpose's worth, and decide if it is worth dropping in such a way that will cause losses. A lot of the tips I saw in this thread, like capping only, will still usually result in a win but just give you a slower rise, so I don't see the help for your situation. True, if you lose with only beacon caps, you will lose a lot of points, but if you are truly playing hard to win with caps, it will be a long, drawn out process.
The solution???
TBH, I think the best solution would be to start a new account and just rock it until you get to the spot you need to be at to run with your Trainees, then try and stay there and make your aim just showing them what to do, not being good at it. At least until the Custom Matches arrive.
Just a random thought about the whole concept... take it or leave it!
Good luck!
IMO, YMMV
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Post by stokr on Sept 13, 2017 12:42:59 GMT -5
what I am trying to discuss here is not how to lose, but how to win without focussing on damage. So, essentially, you want to tank leagues and not cause your team to lose? I dunno...I don't think it's possible to tank and not adversly impact your team. Just tank hard and get it over with fast. Accept that your screwing other people over, because deliberately underperforming to get into a lower league has no other definition. Trying to pretend you're not while you are seems more of an effort to save face than to do the right thing. The right thing is not to F your team and that cannot coexist with tanking. That said I don't care if you tank. I'm pretty sure that the percentage of losses due to tankers I've experienced is relatively equal to the wins where my team has been the beneficiaries of tanking. It would be disingenuous to suggest that tanking has only given me, or anyone else losses alone. I do apologize if this seems mean, or offensive. I just don't know to express my opinion on this subject without getting a little blunt and I'm no wordsmith. Just not that smart. I'm sorry.
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Post by Landy on Sept 13, 2017 13:36:02 GMT -5
You can run a training hangar where the number one goal is to become a better player. This is best accomplished with mostly light bots equipped with molots. My light bots are all leveled up to at least level 9 for mobility.
These would be my goals (in descending order of importance) playing this hangar: 1. Become a better player 2. Win Medal of Capture
I run a mix of bots so that I get good at different styles and special abilities. The hangar is Cossack, Gary, Rog, Stalker, and a final Gary (would like a Jesse). The main training aid that I do is to always look at the enemy even as I make my way around the map. This means jumping sideways with the Cossack even when I am not actively fighting.
On Yama, I'll jump to the first beacon, turn toward the center platform or past it to look for snipers, then jump sideways to the left towards the side beacon while looking forward. The first couple times I did that was not pretty, I would hit the building or jump off the platform and get stuck next to the ramp. Then after, I wouldn't be able to jump up to the bridge correctly. It would have been so much easier to turn left and look where I was jumping, I wouldn't make any mistakes at all. But that would give up my intel gathering ability gained by looking at the enemy.
By looking at them as you go about your normal movement, you see what your up against(Treb sniper vs DB Griff vs Carnage, all providing different threats and needing different approaches), and also where they are going and what they are doing(is there a Red camping the on the right beacon, I guess I can't go for that). Your map memory also gets much better. You begin to know where buildings are and what your weapons will get stuck on without having to look at them. When you are actively engaged with an enemy, you can't look left or right so practicing this really helps.
The Molots are a good tool because not only do I look at the enemy as I move sideways and cap beacons, I shoot at them as soon as they are within 800 meters, all while jumping at the same time. This will also train my fingers to push the big red button, quickly hit the jump button then immediately back to the red button before the molots lose there accelerated firing rate. Remember, a Cossack is slow on the ground, so you should always be jumping when your trying to get somewhere unless jumping makes you a target for Trebuchets for instance.
This is multi-tasking at a high level. The long range means that you should be firing at them from a long distance away, you can't take a breather like you can with Orkans where you don't do much until 300 meters.
Finally, with this low firepower hangar, you will become much better at getting beacons. When you can't force your way onto the beacon, you will have to develop different strategies. You will have to be there when the Reds aren't. You will have to use your teammates to your advantage. You will need to be cunning and learn to predict what the Reds will do. When you get it wrong and a Red drops in on a beacon or you meet face to face with one en-route, your quick destruction will only motivate you not to make that mistake again.
I never skip a map or leave early. I equip the strongest molots in my inventory because that does not detract from my improvement as a player and only helps getting the Medal of Capture. I also play to win because you don't get the gold for losing.
I also think running an all knifer hangar is beneficial to development as a player. There you learn the right amount of aggression to get max damage. Too much and you wasted your bots and have a low score because you ran toward three Reds. Too little and you don't use your bots fully and end up not fighting very much.
Putting it all together, I am now much much more effective with my favorite hangar, 2 beacon cappers and 3 knifers with a lot of Orkans, where my goal is Medal of Capture first and top damage second.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Sept 13, 2017 16:23:00 GMT -5
There is no such thing as "squadding safely". If you're in a squad, you'll face other squads. Sometimes they'll be a menagerie, sometimes they'll be a full clan death squad.
Such is the way of things still.
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inspirace
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Post by inspirace on Sept 13, 2017 18:47:28 GMT -5
thanks for a well-thoughted out, as usual, comment, ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 , and a blunt but frank one, stokr , maybe I should have phrased the question differently (in fact, I realized what was the question I am pursuing during the discussion, way after the OP): what is the way to maximize win rate while minimizing league advance (or even retreat in standing), in my current league? I should also have removed any terms related to morals / ethics here (such as the oxymoron "good fader"), because what I am looking for is wisdom and thoughts, not a nod of approval or a pat on the shoulder. I will also drop the notion of "not harming blue team's gameplay" since it is vague and subjective - I will replace it by the condition "maximize win rate", something more measurable. this will be achievable, ideally, if you earn +2 when winning and lose -22 when losing. in theory, the win rate can be as high as 91.67% (11W, 1L) while you stay in the same league standing. but how one can do something remotely similar to that? I think we can find clues in many people's "rants" and posts asking for tips and advice (many ideas I am writing below, I get from discussions in this thread). for example, many complained that they cannot advance in leagues, because when they win they get +2 and when they lose (due to firetrucking lame blue campers who do not care to cross the riverbed in SF) they lose -22 (while trying to cap beacons alone). typical advice would be "play a bit selfish, when it's clear that you are going to lose, go for damage rather than beacons", "add mid-rangers to increase damage while staying safe", "upgrade weapons and add more Orkans", "buy a Lance and more bralwers", etc. you will notice that these tips are not necessarily aimed to increase the chance of winning, but to increase the damage, so that even if you lose you can advance and avoid the punch of -22, etc. I am thinking what if you play as you usually do , but following the opposite of the above advice? ... ... ... time to go for shopping with my wife, so I will jump to the conclusion: what I decided to try is as follow: (1) I will stop upgrade. not that I will use a lower level weapons - my bot/weapons (8.5/8.5) are already high enough to compete in the current league (D1), so this decision will not particularly affect win rate, as long as I stay in this league (this decision is also a lucky one for me, since I can stop griding for silver in this non-paying account, and focus more on my first account, forever in master3, which I buy premiums), (2) I will run a hanger slightly geared towards faster bots. the hanger composition is in my signature, and I will choose the Stalker over the Leo, when doing solo. in short, TT Boa, Rhino, and Stalker run for beacons, while Pun and RDB Griffs provide supports, (3) I will not pursue damage output when it become obvious that we are going to lose (e.g. all other blues are campers, we have one or two missing pilots, all reds shine a champ clan marks, etc). when a -22 (or -19) fall on me, I will laugh rather than rant. except for these, I will try to do my best in battles, since that's what I would enjoy. this I hope will at least keep me in the league standing, and I will surely lose some while squading. so I guess I can actually go down in league standing. will see. thanks for reading, ... P.S. thinking of it, I am already achieving this goal in my master3 account, with which I do whatever I can to advance in league standing (except for spending cash other than premium and buying a Lance) (not buying a Lance is just a personal oath). I win 58~62% but not advancing much in league standing, due to periodical series of -22 matches (against champion squads). the league standing moves up very slowly mostly responding to weapon upgrades. I run a beacon running, supporting hanger there.
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inspirace
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Post by inspirace on Sept 13, 2017 18:52:03 GMT -5
There is no such thing as "squadding safely". If you're in a squad, you'll face other squads. Sometimes they'll be a menagerie, sometimes they'll be a full clan death squad. Such is the way of things still. actually, per forum member's recommendations, I found a "safer" way to do squads: (1) squad in small numbers. especially I found a squand in two often just matches as if we were random solos, (2) reduce the league disparity among squad members. essentially the reason this thread started, (3) don't play squads after midnight (US time) ... with this, I think we meet much less number of champions squads.
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Post by T34 on Sept 13, 2017 20:15:54 GMT -5
Ahhh, karamba.
This hanger, that hanger…. Whatever….. Because of your league standings you are there because of performance reasons contributed to by your approach, skills, size of your valet and hanger…. If you don’t keep up that performance level and deliberately aim to reduce your ranking via any mechanism you are attempting to manipulate the system. No ifs, no buts, that’s what we are talking about. If you start capping because that’s what you truly desire to do in the game for the time being than stuff anybody who tells you that’s not an acceptable behaviour. If you start capping for manipulative reasons than that’s a different matter.
You really only have four options 1. Fade – Very time consuming. You are going to be affecting matches as long as you use that approach. The odd few will wonder why you are capping. As in for the reasons of manipulation or because that’s what you like doing. Some of those who think you are manipulating will be pissed off. 2. Tank – extremely time effective (very short term and minimal impact on the NQ blues provided there is a LQ). 3. A new account (Then you have to build it up again and then it will be out of the desired league eventually and then you have to start over again). 4. Squad where ever your account is – (then you have the issues you’ve described)
Option 1 is the worst option by far. From a so called ethical point of view and from a logical perspective. Choose your poison as the game has a significant short coming in this respect.
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Post by zer00eyz on Sept 13, 2017 21:08:23 GMT -5
If you don’t keep up that performance level and deliberately aim to reduce your ranking via any mechanism you are attempting to manipulate the system. Lets clear something up: The system, as it stands today is designed to manipulate you. MM isn't about "fair play" It is about "value extraction". There is no level playing field till you get to 12/12 and only fight other 12/12's, even then it doesn't happen because pix will still feed seals in an attempt to separate them from their cash. Your not so naive to think that the current imbalanced astable state of MM isn't intentional, that it isn't motivated by money? Why are you preaching about ethics to a player when the company who built the game is more than willing to exploit its user base to extract the maximum amount of value from them, in the least transparent way possible? The behavior that you are encouraging only serves to inflate Pix's bottom line.
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Post by T34 on Sept 13, 2017 21:53:01 GMT -5
If you donât keep up that performance level and deliberately aim to reduce your ranking via any mechanism you are attempting to manipulate the system. Lets clear something up: The system, as it stands today is designed to manipulate you. MM isn't about "fair play" It is about "value extraction". There is no level playing field till you get to 12/12 and only fight other 12/12's, even then it doesn't happen because pix will still feed seals in an attempt to separate them from their cash. Your not so naive to think that the current imbalanced astable state of MM isn't intentional, that it isn't motivated by money? Why are you preaching about ethics to a player when the company who built the game is more than willing to exploit its user base to extract the maximum amount of value from them, in the least transparent way possible? The behavior that you are encouraging only serves to inflate Pix's bottom line. Hmmm, not sure what message you are trying to convey. Maybe because i havenât had had my coffee this morning and am very slow. Response lines aligned to your lines. Strongly agree Strongly agree Partially agree to Agree - as I donât know the player base numbers. if the player base is âlarge enoughâ I would totally agree. The recent further widening of the MM allocation seems to further suggest the widening was made for increasing revenue. So for all for intensive purposes we have the same view. Not preaching ethics what so ever. No such intent. I only drew one conclusion that fading is the bad option for his circumstance. From my perspective I know which one I would choose but he does as he wishes as its his online gaming experience. If the whole fading/tanking thing gets out of control I am sure pix can put an end to it. Not sure what you are trying to say (not intended to be a smart 「bum-bum」 or jovial comment).
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Post by zer00eyz on Sept 13, 2017 22:13:51 GMT -5
Lets clear something up: The system, as it stands today is designed to manipulate you. MM isn't about "fair play" It is about "value extraction". There is no level playing field till you get to 12/12 and only fight other 12/12's, even then it doesn't happen because pix will still feed seals in an attempt to separate them from their cash. Your not so naive to think that the current imbalanced astable state of MM isn't intentional, that it isn't motivated by money? Why are you preaching about ethics to a player when the company who built the game is more than willing to exploit its user base to extract the maximum amount of value from them, in the least transparent way possible? The behavior that you are encouraging only serves to inflate Pix's bottom line. Hmmm, not sure what message you are trying to convey. Maybe because i haven’t had had my coffee this morning and am very slow. Response lines aligned to your lines. Strongly agree Strongly agree Partially agree to Agree - as I don’t know the player base numbers. if the player base is “large enough” I would totally agree. The recent further widening of the MM allocation seems to further suggest the widening was made for increasing revenue. So for all for intensive purposes we have the same view. Not preaching ethics what so ever. No such intent. I only drew one conclusion that fading is the bad option for his circumstance. From my perspective I know which one I would choose but he does as he wishes as its his online gaming experience. If the whole fading/tanking thing gets out of control I am sure pix can put an end to it. Not sure what you are trying to say (not intended to be a smart ?bum-bum? or jovial comment). Sorry to be snarky/terse, long day myself. (too much coffee perhaps?) I have just seen this thread overloaded with people opposed to the idea of any sort of score manipulation, in various forums and flavors, and we apparently agree this is only to the benefit of pix.
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Post by amoebastudios on Sept 13, 2017 22:44:43 GMT -5
There's no ethical fading.
And fading is not viable anymore. LQ is re-enabled on iOS.
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Post by Landy on Sept 13, 2017 23:24:58 GMT -5
If you are really concerned about win rate, listen to what zer00eyz says about his capping hangar. My capping hangar enjoys the same win rate of around 70%. I have gone as high as 78% and if I drop down into the 50's, I am having a bad run. zer00eyz high win rate of his capping hangar reinforces a theory of mine about how beacon capping hangars naturally have higher win rates because they are rewarded less when they win and penalized more when they lose in terms of league points.
So what happens is that players of equal skill in a beacon capping hangar will stabilize in a lower league while an equally skilled player with a knife fighter hangar will get bumped up and stabilize in a higher league. Keep in mind, the players are identical in skill and strategy and everything that matters to win the match, they just choose to run different hangars.
In the higher league, players are better and the knife fighter ends up with the usual 50% win rate. The beacon capper is in a lower league, playing against lesser opponents. But he still does the same things, getting 7 beacons per match and really helping turn the tide of every match. So he naturally wins more than 2/3rds of the matches and will not go up in league because when he wins, he gets 5 league points, when he loses, he is hit with the -22 or -17. The beacon capper stabilizes at 70% for good.
I think my teammates like that when I'm on the team, we win more than 2/3rds of the time, consistently and permanently. It's easy gold for the team.
Beacon capper seal clubber, is that a thing?
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Post by WilsonK on Sept 13, 2017 23:29:51 GMT -5
There is no such thing as "squadding safely". If you're in a squad, you'll face other squads. Sometimes they'll be a menagerie, sometimes they'll be a full clan death squad. Such is the way of things still. Yeah, it's all about who is in the queue. I'm pretty sure the servers just link two squads into a match.. Good luck to you if you're a Full-8 Hangar Squad going up against a Full-12 Hangar Squad.
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Post by T34 on Sept 13, 2017 23:33:22 GMT -5
There's no ethical fading. And fading is not viable anymore. LQ is re-enabled on iOS. source of info?
but anyhow, with or without the LQ, fading and tanking was a viable mechanism in respect to the context of this thread prior to 3.1. the question is if it is the same LQ mechanism or not.
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Post by amoebastudios on Sept 14, 2017 0:07:03 GMT -5
There's no ethical fading. And fading is not viable anymore. LQ is re-enabled on iOS. source of info?
but anyhow, with or without the LQ, fading and tanking was a viable mechanism in respect to the context of this thread prior to 3.1. the question is if it is the same LQ mechanism or not.
Source? I'm in it. And it's the same mechanism as before.
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Post by moses on Sept 14, 2017 0:09:21 GMT -5
this will be achievable, ideally, if you earn +2 when winning and lose -22 when losing. in theory, the win rate can be as high as 91.67% (11W, 1L) while you stay in the same league standing. but how one can do something remotely similar to that? Agree this is the theoretical way to do it and as zer00eyz pointed out he is managing 60-70% win rate consistently with a capping focused hangar so clearly no one could argue that his fellow blues are suffering from his actions. In fact, if you can sustain max win rate and consistently rank 6th in your team then that means you are the best possible random team mate around as you leave max possible league points behind for other 5 blues to share (assuming none of them have the same mission as you). One small tweak to the maths is that you probably then get +3 league points for most capped, so it is likely you get closer to +5 for win and -19 for loss. This is working on the assumption that you can't have a positive influence on overall win rate without capping beacons if you are not doing meaningful damage. The Important point that has been missed from the discussion in terms of maths is the effect of squading on league points since no matter what hangar you run and what place you rank 1-6 by damage your whole squad gets the same points win or lose. Therefore if you always run full squad with your clanmates then the gap between your league points in absolute terms will never widen - you all move up or down together and if your win rate is around 50% you will stay pretty much where you are. Taking this point I think the key conclusions are: 1) to move down league points without negatively impacting other player experience the theoretical best option is running a beacon optimised hangar and play style and doing it solo until you get to your desired league standing. During this period you are still playing all out for the win. 2) once you have got to the league level you need then you only squad with your clanmates with this account so that you are all either going up or down the leagues together and this disparity never arises again. If you do go solo again it should be with the beacon hangar only.
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Post by Landy on Sept 14, 2017 0:16:22 GMT -5
^^^nicely said
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Post by T34 on Sept 14, 2017 0:25:47 GMT -5
source of info?
but anyhow, with or without the LQ, fading and tanking was a viable mechanism in respect to the context of this thread prior to 3.1. the question is if it is the same LQ mechanism or not.
Source? I'm in it. And it's the same mechanism as before. 「dookie」, now I have to change my avatar
how many "violations" you reckon before you got put in?
same usual suspects/distribution of player levels?
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Post by amoebastudios on Sept 14, 2017 11:08:28 GMT -5
Same as before. About the same number of games to get in. Same mix of players.
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