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Post by hyderier on Aug 14, 2017 3:32:32 GMT -5
Rhino is in my opinion the only real option, preferably DB setuo. Speed to get there before any red can respawn even if a red gets there first. HP to survive any rare (at this point in the battle) mid-range rocket bot or (more common) stealthed Stalker, shield to ignore plasma at 300-350 m, and DB power to slug it out with anything under 300 m.
Orkan Rog is nice and all if there's time to use cover. Stalker is nice if there's no enemy Rog or Rhino competing for the same beacon. But this is Beacon Rush. Time for patience comes a bit later (which leads me to complain about idiots who keep pushing forward from Yamantau center beacon, meching out quickly, instead of concentrating on meching out reds who must attack exposed).
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@pricker
Destrier
Posts: 83
Karma: 35
Pilot name: @pricker
Platform: Android
Clan: wikittens
League: Champion
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: rogatka
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Post by @pricker on Aug 14, 2017 7:06:17 GMT -5
Why would somoane use a stalker/gareth or even rogotka and get killed if red is a rhino when you can reach center at same speed with db rhino and be able to defend that beacon? Strange to me. Strange that I only meet others gareths or rogs at the sprint to the center beacon. No matter what map there is no straight line to the center that might explain the absence of rhino's maybe. I use db rhino and sometimes i face gareths followed by galahads wich are easy silver for me, stalker can stay alive until his stealth is over (can be killed by fujin even if his in stealth mode) but dosent have the power to kill nothing in that amount of time so is useless and rogatka/orkan can compete. I replaced my 2x rogs with 2x db rhinos because are far more effective for me, both run at same speed but rog has less firepower, less hp and is vulnerable to plasma and rockets. Just saying
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Aug 14, 2017 14:55:10 GMT -5
Canyon and Yamantau are straight runs to center. Shentzen can be a straight run if you spawn in the right position. Power Plant has straight runs, but there's no real center beacon on PP. Moon is a straight run to the enemy side beacon - as the center beacon is not the priorty in BR for that map. Speed to center though isn't the factor that determines who hold the beacon though. On most maps (especially Canyon and Shentzen, and arguably Yamantau and DC), the center isn't even desirable to expend bots on in a first run blitze, as dropping into the center puts guns on you from virtually every angle. When you throw out the entire idea of a center beacon, dedicated runners like the Stalker or Gareth start to lose appeal as the runs to the critical side beacons make light runners unsuitable either because they can't survive a long run or that they can't survive a beacon defense long enough to flip a beacon or before help arrives. This is why in the Champion levels of play the Rhino and Rog are the choice fior BR, not Stalkers or Gareths. I've always run beacons, but long ago the Power Runner bots (Rog, Rhino, Carnage, and now Doc and soon to be here Dash Mk2) became the only real choice for this job at the highest levels of play. You are absolutely right about the tactics. But the argument was if a rhino can beat a stalker to the center beacon wich he can't. My apologies - it was never my intention to state the Rhino would beat the Stalker. Yes, the Stalker would beat the Rhino hands down to any center beacon. But as I've stated, speed doesn't determine who holds the beacon in the first round. So if you have get insta-killed by a power runner or have to eject a Stalker because you see a DB Rhino or Ork Rog coming up, then you are immediately down 1 bot in the first 30 seconds of the match. Respawning at center with a knifer after your Stalker also doesn't guarantee that you'll kill the incoming Rhino or Rog either, as they will have guns on you already before you finish dropping ---- so at best, you'll hold the beacon and be basically 2 bots down (cause you'll lose at least 3/4 of your HP if DB unloads on your team point blank range) inside 1 minute. This doesn't sound like a job that would appeal to most pilots.
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Aug 14, 2017 16:03:32 GMT -5
I think the Stalker fans as a 1st round BR choice are forgetting that you have to hold the beacon until another red dies and Stalker might get there first, there's no red to respawn since they are behind you and no one has engaged them yet. Now if you say you will kill your Stalker and respawn immediately to defend the beacon, what bot will you bring on to fend off a DB Rhino ------ that will 100% have you covered when you drop back in (cause it was on 5-7 seconds slower than you to the center in the first place) and those Orks/Pinatas will be be firing at point blank range (like inside an Ancil shield close) while you are disoriented with the 3-4 second drop-n-spin respawn motion. Disagree on multiple points here. A) with a stalker you usually get there farsrt enough to prepare for what's coming your way. That means you usually can get two sakvos of aphids in and, if you are killed, your enemy will have most probably depleted its rockets B) if you know what you are doing, you can actually kill an unsupported rhino with a stalker relatively easily if you manage to move behind it using stealth mode C) you can respawn at a beacon even if that is being taken away until there's a sliver of blue. That's usually enough to spawn one or two blues. IfI one is you, you have the advantage to spawn knowing what you will find. A rocket rhino I know with full ammo? Here my ancilot. I managed to have it expend its ammo? I drop a db griffin which, that yes, comesbut fully loaded. D) I haven't noticed a respawn rotation. Is there one except at home spawn at the behinning? Honestly, on every game I played on Yama I was the first at center beacon and we immancably held it for the whole game (which, at times, we lost because BR apparently makes players forget basics and people mass ON the platform to be shredded by tridents... when there are some in play). Same with the fort in springfield. On moonbase I usually manage to cap both red beacons while they are busy slugging it out under the dome, then eject, reappear on a triple thunder fury and proceed to shoot them all in the back. Only place where I suffer greatly is canyon Definitely aphids stalker for me.
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Post by ༒ƜƦƛƖƬӇ༒ on Aug 14, 2017 16:30:18 GMT -5
Ork Rog is my normal first choice.. if im not feeling it, then I go for my Pun/Galahad it lays the lead down and suppresses the reds as you go for the beacon.. But I usually don't want to waste a Galahad for the first hit at the center beacon.. also depends on what I see other Blues spawning in.. If there are 2 or 3 other fast beacon cappers, then I will just spawn in a Carny Thunder and support them when they cap the beacon
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Post by locutis on Aug 14, 2017 17:25:17 GMT -5
Rhino is in my opinion the only real option, preferably DB setuo. Speed to get there before any red can respawn even if a red gets there first. HP to survive any rare (at this point in the battle) mid-range rocket bot or (more common) stealthed Stalker, shield to ignore plasma at 300-350 m, and DB power to slug it out with anything under 300 m. Orkan Rog is nice and all if there's time to use cover. Stalker is nice if there's no enemy Rog or Rhino competing for the same beacon. But this is Beacon Rush. Time for patience comes a bit later (which leads me to complain about idiots who keep pushing forward from Yamantau center beacon, meching out quickly, instead of concentrating on meching out reds who must attack exposed). My orkan Rog eats Rhino's for breakfast. Absolutely will shred Stalkers, Gary's, etc. It is vulnerable to plasma but one of the best bots against rockets with its speed, agility, and jumping ability. Always use the Rog.
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@pricker
Destrier
Posts: 83
Karma: 35
Pilot name: @pricker
Platform: Android
Clan: wikittens
League: Champion
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: rogatka
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Post by @pricker on Aug 14, 2017 17:33:25 GMT -5
I think the Stalker fans as a 1st round BR choice are forgetting that you have to hold the beacon until another red dies and Stalker might get there first, there's no red to respawn since they are behind you and no one has engaged them yet. Now if you say you will kill your Stalker and respawn immediately to defend the beacon, what bot will you bring on to fend off a DB Rhino ------ that will 100% have you covered when you drop back in (cause it was on 5-7 seconds slower than you to the center in the first place) and those Orks/Pinatas will be be firing at point blank range (like inside an Ancil shield close) while you are disoriented with the 3-4 second drop-n-spin respawn motion. Disagree on multiple points here. A) with a stalker you usually get there farsrt enough to prepare for what's coming your way. That means you usually can get two sakvos of aphids in and, if you are killed, your enemy will have most probably depleted its rockets B) if you know what you are doing, you can actually kill an unsupported rhino with a stalker relatively easily if you manage to move behind it using stealth mode C) you can respawn at a beacon even if that is being taken away until there's a sliver of blue. That's usually enough to spawn one or two blues. IfI one is you, you have the advantage to spawn knowing what you will find. A rocket rhino I know with full ammo? Here my ancilot. I managed to have it expend its ammo? I drop a db griffin which, that yes, comesbut fully loaded. D) I haven't noticed a respawn rotation. Is there one except at home spawn at the behinning? Honestly, on every game I played on Yama I was the first at center beacon and we immancably held it for the whole game (which, at times, we lost because BR apparently makes players forget basics and people mass ON the platform to be shredded by tridents... when there are some in play). Same with the fort in springfield. On moonbase I usually manage to cap both red beacons while they are busy slugging it out under the dome, then eject, reappear on a triple thunder fury and proceed to shoot them all in the back. Only place where I suffer greatly is canyon Definitely aphids stalker for me. A: with stalker you dont get at center beacon fast enough to turn it red, here is the problem...no defend power. B: i dont know what rhinos have you killed in stealth mode that fast, maybe you have some epic weapons, ill love to know more about them. Here is how things usually go since i run a rhino orkan/aphids at first to get the center, stalker has a little more speed but not enough, when the beacon is half red im there with rhino, now i can hit aphids at 350 m wich make lil stalker to get his stealth consumed than he mets my orkans about 30% of load no need more...than a db griff kills me after i take half of his hp, untill all this happens my team is close enough and i respown there with whatever setup i need to kill the reds and the haos begin...defend defend defend
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 0:33:27 GMT -5
Whatever is in my hangar that can get to a beacon when needed
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Aug 15, 2017 1:12:51 GMT -5
A: with stalker you dont get at center beacon fast enough to turn it red, here is the problem...no defend power. B: i dont know what rhinos have you killed in stealth mode that fast, maybe you have some epic weapons, ill love to know more about them. A) of course you do, in just about any map. The only problem is if the other side run to it with a Gareth or another stalker, in which case you won't have time to turn it completely. Have you piloted a stalker of late or are you just making things up as you go, stop, turn, go, stop, turn...? B) you are intentionally misreading what I wrote for pointless grandstanding. I didn't write killing a Rhino in stealth mode, I said getting behind it with it. Once there, a stalker well piloted can pretty much circle a rhino without getting hit (unless the rhino pilot is smart enough to move against a wall, but my experience is that most won't). And that's why I said an unsupported rhino: if it is accompanied by any other robot, the stalker is admittedly toast.
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@pricker
Destrier
Posts: 83
Karma: 35
Pilot name: @pricker
Platform: Android
Clan: wikittens
League: Champion
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: rogatka
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Post by @pricker on Aug 15, 2017 3:09:39 GMT -5
A: with stalker you dont get at center beacon fast enough to turn it red, here is the problem...no defend power. B: i dont know what rhinos have you killed in stealth mode that fast, maybe you have some epic weapons, ill love to know more about them. A) of course you do, in just about any map. The only problem is if the other side run to it with a Gareth or another stalker, in which case you won't have time to turn it completely. Have you piloted a stalker of late or are you just making things up as you go, stop, turn, go, stop, turn...? B) you are intentionally misreading what I wrote for pointless grandstanding. I didn't write killing a Rhino in stealth mode, I said getting behind it with it. Once there, a stalker well piloted can pretty much circle a rhino without getting hit (unless the rhino pilot is smart enough to move against a wall, but my experience is that most won't). And that's why I said an unsupported rhino: if it is accompanied by any other robot, the stalker is admittedly toast. A) First i piloted gepard than stalker than jumped to rogatka and now rhino because i can get to any center/side beacons on any map without having to put my shield down. I dont know what league you in, im in expert(android) and a stalker has no chance against a good piloted rhino! Maybe if his smart to save his stealth when aphids or whatever hit him and has 2x mid/range bots for support that can take rhino out in that amount of time but this is no more stalker vs rhino its team vs rhino assuming his all alone there.But in my experience this never happend. B) You said: "you can actually kill an unsupported rhino with a stalker relatively easily if you manage to move behind it using stealth mode" what did i misread? c) this is completely wrong now: "a stalker well piloted can pretty much circle a rhino without getting hit" Let me update you with the turn thing, worked before 3.0 now turn (both turns) are buffed aswell. stalkers speed < rhinos turn
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Aug 15, 2017 4:11:20 GMT -5
A) expert android (currently high diamond due too much hangar experimentation) and i stand by my point B) "if you get behind him using stealth mode" seriously, not even copy pasting it you can read it? C) that might be on paper, but I haven't notice much of a change really. On the other hand, it is also true that there is the possibility that I haven't faced the situation yet since the new update, I'll keep an eye on it when it will.
Seriously, in any case, i don't see the point of the aggressiveness this time around. You have an experience playing apparently different than mine, but the fact I said I can usually take down an unsupported Rhino with a stalker (an event admittedly rare, they are almost never unsupported) doesn't mean rhino players are garbage, nor that i'd manage to take you personally down nor, conversely, that if someone else didn't manage to take you down I'm lying and that can't be done.
Seriously, relax.
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@pricker
Destrier
Posts: 83
Karma: 35
Pilot name: @pricker
Platform: Android
Clan: wikittens
League: Champion
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: rogatka
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Post by @pricker on Aug 15, 2017 5:10:38 GMT -5
A) expert android (currently high diamond due too much hangar experimentation) and i stand by my point B) "if you get behind him using stealth mode" seriously, not even copy pasting it you can read it? C) that might be on paper, but I haven't notice much of a change really. On the other hand, it is also true that there is the possibility that I haven't faced the situation yet since the new update, I'll keep an eye on it when it will. Seriously, in any case, i don't see the point of the aggressiveness this time around. You have an experience playing apparently different than mine, but the fact I said I can usually take down an unsupported Rhino with a stalker (an event admittedly rare, they are almost never unsupported) doesn't mean rhino players are garbage, nor that i'd manage to take you personally down nor, conversely, that if someone else didn't manage to take you down I'm lying and that can't be done. Seriously, relax. Seriously, im not agressive B) I was reffering to "you can kill a rhino easily" part, dosent metter what tricks you use, the truth is you cant kill nothing easy with stalker...not even a cossak/taran. C) I would agreed with you in the past, now thats history. I faced stalkers trying the circle thing. Play what is best for you, also try rhino if you have one, maybe that will open youre eyes
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Post by shagot on Aug 15, 2017 8:42:32 GMT -5
Ok, my ork garry went face to face with rhino , while we both were rushing to center yamatu ( beacon rush).
I reached beacon before him, we bot fired orkans, but managed to turn it blue before I got destroyed. I even landed some rockets on him.
I managed to respawn in db griff, and killed rhino easily, he was close to empty on ammo, and wounded by garry. Secured the C and we won.
Anyhow, both setups seems vaible for beacon rush. Rhino will be my next wsp bot probably, just need to buy/level some mid weapons.
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@pricker
Destrier
Posts: 83
Karma: 35
Pilot name: @pricker
Platform: Android
Clan: wikittens
League: Champion
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: rogatka
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Post by @pricker on Aug 15, 2017 10:37:45 GMT -5
Ok, my ork garry went face to face with rhino , while we both were rushing to center yamatu ( beacon rush). I reached beacon before him, we bot fired orkans, but managed to turn it blue before I got destroyed. I even landed some rockets on him. I managed to respawn in db griff, and killed rhino easily, he was close to empty on ammo, and wounded by garry. Secured the C and we won. Anyhow, both setups seems vaible for beacon rush. Rhino will be my next wsp bot probably, just need to buy/level some mid weapons. On yama ho gets first the center in BR, 90% wins. I was surprised my last match a rog got to center first on yama and both run at 60km speed, my guess is if you have the bad luck to spawn in middele in that side where the tunnel is you wont make it first, the other side of the map is bit coloser to center i think, anyway i was very close to get it about 1 sec late...i managed to kill that rog fast, turn the beacon white but he respawnd with a db griff and bye bye me and in the end we lost that match
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