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Post by tonyfla on Aug 1, 2017 12:02:22 GMT -5
Thought I'd share this since it gives some insight into Pixonic's attitude towards players who spend money on their game.
So yesterday, I bought a bunch of gold. Not trying to pay to win; I just don't have the patience to wait for these slow upgrades. Waiting on them drives me up the firetrucking wall.
Even though it was my choice to spend the money, I still felt a little...cheated is not the right word. But definitely like I wasn't getting my money's worth.
I sent Pixonic a note telling them what I thought and suggesting they offer players a little more in return for our dollars.
My message:
And Pixonic's response:
It was about what I'd expected, a canned non-response. But I'd held out a little hope that even though they were unlikely to act on my suggestions, at least they would offer a personal response that acknowledged the point I was making.
You know, at the very least try to show they gave a ?poo-poo?. Silly me.
By the way, I know there are some of you who are thinking right now "?firetruck? you, you made the choice to spend that money." So just to be clear, I own my decisions and I'm not crying about this, nor am I looking for sympathy or trying to foster outrage.
This is a great game which I've enjoyed playing and will continue to play as long as it continues to be fun.
Anyway, for those who do spend, it's just something to think about the next time you're considering a real-money purchase. Maybe it'll make you think twice, maybe it won't.
But it always helps to know the mindset of the people who're getting your money.
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buford
Destrier
Posts: 78
Karma: 62
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Post by buford on Aug 1, 2017 12:16:02 GMT -5
I have made a very similar statement to them in the past without any response at all.
I suggested they rethink their pricing as many more people spending small amounts of cash would certainly earn them more money then a small amount paying larger sums. Prices are rediculous in this game for not much return. They also don't seem to understand currency values on a basic level. Maybe if we all payed in rubles?
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kingdavid1
Destrier
Posts: 121
Karma: 60
Pilot name: King David1
Platform: iOS
Clan: [Mexic0]
League: Diamond
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Leo
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Post by kingdavid1 on Aug 1, 2017 12:16:33 GMT -5
370$$!?!. You must have some nice money cause I spent 10 dollars on the game so far and I would say I'm doing decent. Might be a little over board for me but that's your money.
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Post by Domino on Aug 1, 2017 12:30:21 GMT -5
What's wrong with no spending any money at all?
I would like to see the player base without people who didn't pay. One of the foundations of this game in particular is numbers. If you don't have more people signing up and staying than leaving you're bound to go bankrupt
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Post by adrenachrome on Aug 1, 2017 12:32:26 GMT -5
I hate freemium...
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Post by make7upyours on Aug 1, 2017 12:37:44 GMT -5
It's funny. I'm over this game but still spent $40 on 4th of July lottery. Mostly because I was getting closer to bonus spin. I didn't really get much good this time. Got a bunch of gold tho.
There's very little in spending money. I actually forgot about amazon again, so I really F'd myself over.
The only thing I think is kinda worth the money but isn't, is the premium. I wouldn't be able to play this game without premium. Ag income is way too low. It's too slow even with premium.
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Post by thefalsehuman on Aug 1, 2017 12:50:25 GMT -5
"In fact, many players exploit that by never paying anything for the game, which is not right, either."
What are you even saying? All players should pay for this game?
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Post by stokr on Aug 1, 2017 12:52:23 GMT -5
I've spent money and probably will continue to spend money on this and other games in the future. For many, many years now I've maintained subscription service games like Eve (go back to M59 for when I first started paying for them). So...I figure $15/month + $50/year for typical expansion pack, or software updates. Ummmm, lessee... That throws roughly $230/year into the bucket based on my typical single game spending habits. I've been playing now for 9+ months and have spent around $60-$70. We'll see what happens when Dash and Scourge hit the scene. One thing though, after years of playing Eve, I am patient with upgrades and won't spend on those.
Edit: Was just thinking, many games, like Eve, I maintained full second accounts. In Eve, it was for my scout. Sooooooo...technically...I'm good for closer to $420 year. hey HEY Hey!! Dat's a nice number! Didn't see that coming.
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Post by tonyfla on Aug 1, 2017 13:15:13 GMT -5
"In fact, many players exploit that by never paying anything for the game, which is not right, either." What are you even saying? All players should pay for this game? Yes. Do you work for free? I certainly never did, except for one internship. That's the way the world works. You provide something of value, people pay you for it. Everyone deserves to be rewarded for their hard work. Pixonic is not a charity. They don't give us hours of entertainment just for the warm feeling it gives them in their hearts. Now, the caveat: I strongly support acts of piracy against companies that actively try to exploit people. For example, movie studios that pay some silly actor $20 million for six months' work, then turn around and gouge customers at the box office, at home through PPV, and at the store with $25 DVDs. Or, an insurance company that gladly takes hundreds of dollars a month from you, but when your kid needs an MRI, claims it isn't medically necessary and refuses to pay. I do not feel that Pixonic falls completely into that category, though. While they do use the shady freemium model, the company does make a concerted effort to balance that with in-game rewards such as daily gold and events that lavish players with free gear. They also put considerable effort - regardless of their mistakes - into making the game a great experience for the player. We all get a lot of entertainment value from the game. So, yeah, I think we should all be paying something for that value. That's not unreasonable at all. It's just a matter of how much. But that is simply my personal opinion, and we all know how much value opinions have.
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Post by cheap on Aug 1, 2017 13:17:48 GMT -5
I spend money every now and then on this game cause I enjoy it, everyone should at least spend 5 or $10 on the game at least once. I agree the premium is lackluster it should have a gold bonus maybe 150 to 250 au weekly a 10%-15% faster upgrade time the Ag bonus is fine for it. Another thing that would be great is if they let people who have premium for 3-5 months the option to purchase a extra upgrade slot or maybe a 6th bot slot(you know six choices but only allowed 5 to use in battle). I know I would pay regularly for premium service if this was available, but that is just me don't know about everyone else.
Edit: maybe 2months intead of 3months would be better
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Post by tonyfla on Aug 1, 2017 13:19:37 GMT -5
370$$!?!. You must have some nice money cause I spent 10 dollars on the game so far and I would say I'm doing decent. Might be a little over board for me but that's your money. No, actually I'm a broke-「bum-bum」 living on a small pension. I really shouldn't be spending that kind of money on anything, let alone a frickin' game. If my GF knew I'd been doing this...well, God help me. It's possible I might have a wee bit of an addiction. Cheaper than heroin, I guess. But not by much.
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Post by tonyfla on Aug 1, 2017 13:22:06 GMT -5
What's wrong with no spending any money at all? I would like to see the player base without people who didn't pay. One of the foundations of this game in particular is numbers. If you don't have more people signing up and staying than leaving you're bound to go bankrupt Simple. If no one spent money, there'd be no game. Also, like I said above, everybody deserves to be paid for their work.
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Post by infraviolet on Aug 1, 2017 13:27:21 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I've spent close to $500 since I started playing nearly six months ago.
My original plan was to simply hash out $20 every payday for 2500 Au. But then the 3rd Anny event came along, and then the daily side deals. But I pretty much ignored the 4th of July event. I'm still picky about what I'd want to buy though. Not gonna buy another something I already have. And the WSP weapon deals are just garbage.
My long term game investment now lies ultimately at a crossroads - either get my first Galahad, or wait for the Korean bots. (Which is safe to assume at this point that they will cost less than 14K Au.)
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Post by Domino on Aug 1, 2017 13:36:31 GMT -5
What's wrong with no spending any money at all? I would like to see the player base without people who didn't pay. One of the foundations of this game in particular is numbers. If you don't have more people signing up and staying than leaving you're bound to go bankrupt Simple. If no one spent money, there'd be no game. Also, like I said above, everybody deserves to be paid for their work. Not true. Ads can generate income. Also people are willing to pay to escalate upgrades, purchase weapons, etc. How many people would freely give money to Pixonic without a return? Without players, there wouldn't be a fight. Therefore my time is contribution to the game, that is worth more than money to Pix and the guy I'm playing against.
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Post by Dredd77 on Aug 1, 2017 13:46:39 GMT -5
This game could not survive without players. The so-called "shady freemium model" allows for a wide base of nonpaying players to keep the population of the game up while others pay for additional enjoyment.
There is nothing wrong with enjoy this game for free. There is also nothing wrong with paying money to enjoy this game.
Some folks on each side try and look down their nose that the other side, but this is silly. The game needs them both.
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Post by noobcake on Aug 1, 2017 14:56:49 GMT -5
Everyone can play war robots and there is no pay wall. A completely playable hangar is available early on and premium currency is easy to acquire. Dredd77 did a great article in his blog about the actual dollar amount in premium currency that is given out DAILY. I don't remember the number but it is very generous. By this standard, pixonic is downright progressive. The new viral marketing and daily sales might be a step in the shady direction but their current model is pretty good! Another point I would like to make is that our expectations of customer support are sometimes a little unrealistic. No doubt we all have been frustrated with canned responses from Pixonic but what did we expect? The dude/chic on the other side has very limited ability to do or say anything other than collect information and send out canned responses. They are not the developer and don't have a controlling interest in the company. On our side we need to be humble enough to understand that we are one of thousands or even millions and individually we have very little leverage, power, or importance. We are bound to be disappointed when we pour our feelings into a manifesto and send it in to customer support expecting a thoughtful response befitting the effort put in.
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inspirace
Trusted Contributor
Posts: 2,670
Karma: 2,959
Pilot name: inspirace
Platform: iOS
Clan: NEW
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Rog, Griff, Carn, Doc, Rhino, Haechi, Kumiho, Bulgasari, Mender, Inquisitor, Spectre, Strider,
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Post by inspirace on Aug 1, 2017 15:26:38 GMT -5
What's wrong with no spending any money at all? I would like to see the player base without people who didn't pay. One of the foundations of this game in particular is numbers. If you don't have more people signing up and staying than leaving you're bound to go bankrupt Simple. If no one spent money, there'd be no game. Also, like I said above, everybody deserves to be paid for their work. no, there is nothing wrong playing this game without paying. non-paying players also do service to developers, by providing the mass of players vital for this kind of game. plus, if they talk, write, review (, and rant) about the game, they contribute to expanding the playerbase, etc. and paying for this game certainly bring a lot of advantage already to the play. and the developers, I think, have been doing a decent job creating an environment where both paying and non-paying players can survive and enjoy. I have payed so far ~$250 (gambling and upgrade...) and plan to continue buying premium (for silver) for my first account, while I spent 0$ for my second. I enjoy playing both accounts, both stabilized and slowly advancing in different leagues, especially after the Punisher/Molot buff. they do make updates and changes that I don't like, but I don't have much to complain about their business models. I am against further bumping up the reward for cash, especially sth like "unlimited upgrade(?)" for cash. that will right away destroy the balance of the game, reduce the player base, and only much smaller numbers of paying players would survive. I feel the premium account already serves well, without which it would be almost impossible to go beyond level10+,
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Post by Firebeard on Aug 1, 2017 15:44:04 GMT -5
What, exactly, were you looking for? - a Win streak, a Damage Bonus, a more Gold/Silver/IP points, etc..?
I've spent close to $400 since March and I'm will be spending considerably less, actually zero, with the current state of the game. Even the 'Butch on Sale didn't phase me .. and I at one point really wanted a Butch.
Pixonic needs to address the gameplay to encourage spending ..
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Post by tonyfla on Aug 1, 2017 16:28:12 GMT -5
This game could not survive without players. The so-called "shady freemium model" allows for a wide base of nonpaying players to keep the population of the game up while others pay for additional enjoyment. There is nothing wrong with enjoy this game for free. There is also nothing wrong with paying money to enjoy this game. Some folks on each side try and look down their nose that the other side, but this is silly. The game needs them both. Not looking down my nose at anybody for not paying. That's you giving your own meaning to my words. While I don't think it's right to play the game without ever paying anything, not thinking it's right does not equal feeling superior to those who don't. It doesn't even mean I think everybody should see it the same way I do. As for the idea that free players make the game...no. This is not a chicken-or-the-egg thing. Without paying players, the games wouldn't exist in the first place. Game developers create games for the purpose of making money. If they thought no one would pay for the game, they wouldn't make it. Saying the game needs them is just a way for free players to justify not paying. It's disingenuous and yeah, that part irritates me some. Look, if someone can't pay for the game because they can't afford it, or won't pay for the game because of certain principles they have, OK, fine. I have zero problem with that, trust me. I'm not a Lannister; I don't 「dookie」 gold or dollar bills. And like I said above, I'm all for piracy against companies that exploit their customers. Firetruck 'em right back. But saying you're paying for the game by playing the game is silly. C'mon. That's like eating at a restaurant every day and saying you pay for the food you eat by eating the food you eat. Again, as I made sure to mention in a previous post, this is my own personal opinion about this. If somebody sees it differently, that doesn't make them wrong, or me wrong, or Justin Bieber wrong. Wait, no...yeah, that guy is always wrong. But just him. Meanwhile, on the freemium thing, I'm a little more firm. ( Note: Quit reading here unless you give a 「dookie」 what I think about how freemium games work. The tl;dr is Freemium games bad, Rocky Road good.) Yes, the freemium model is shady. If you haven't already, I suggest you do a little background reading on it. Mobile gaming companies hire social psychologists to design aspect of the games specifically to exploit quirks of human behavior so people spend money they normally would not. They're the same behavioral experts who came up with the manipulative tricks used by casinos, such as pumping in oxygen-rich air to make players giddy and not having visible clocks so players become time-disoriented. That's why so many freemium games, War Robots included, use some form of gambling such as opening chests. Because they are based on that same principle of stimulating the VTA portion of the brain to release dopamine. Every time a player gets a reward from the game, dopamine is released, giving the player a feeling of happiness and well-being. Players will return time and again to get more of that feeling. And to get it, you have to slowwwwlllyyy accumulate game currency. Many players are content to wait. But for players whose brain chemistry tends toward compulsive behavior - comprising a smaller but significant portion of the base - devs are only too happy to offer quicker dopamine fixes through the spending of cash. Because those are the real targets of freemium games...the ones most likely to become addicted to some degree. If you look closely at most freemium games, you'll see that just about every aspect of gameplay, in ways subtle and not-so-subtle, focuses those players on the path to a purchase. For example, Hothead Games, makers of Kill Shot Bravo, offers its premium weapons, which become obsolete within one or two levels (maybe three days of game play), for prices ranging from $40 to $70 worth of game currency. Most players are unwilling to pay those prices because of how quickly the weapons lose their value. However, Hothead also puts those same premium weapons into chests that players can open for about $5 worth of currency. Well, obviously that's a much better deal. Except that the drop rates are so low, you usually don't get a premium weapon until the 20th chest, which is a guaranteed winner. Even then, it will be one of several "premium" items, not necessarily the one you wanted, so you might have to continue. Yet, knowing it's an obvious scam, players still hit those chests over and over, looking for that dopamine release. And Kill Shot Bravo is not even the most egregious example. Players have reported spending $500 a week on games like Mobile Strike and Clash of Kings, which focus on building bases. Upgrading bases takes so long, players can spend months or years waiting to reach a competitive level, or, as the game constantly reminds them, they can buy packages that cost hundreds of dollars and level much more quickly. Kings, especially, requires so much expensive game currency, it's spawned its own Chinese gold farming market. The reason for all of this is that the mobile gaming industry nearly tanked because people refused to pay for games. Developers had to scramble for a way to recoup their investments and decided to try the in-game purchase model. They soon found that only about 2% of players would pay, but that 2% would really pay, especially when psychologically manipulated. Making a tidy profit wasn't enough. It became an industry-wide practice to squeeze players for every possible dollar. And while some of them will try to justify it in interviews and at conferences by saying it's wealthy sheiks and whatnot who are paying most of it, that's bull「dookie」. The reality is, most of the money comes from regular working people who intend to spend $20 and end up spending $200. It's one thing when a game is straightforward about purchasing, as War Robots is for the most part. But it is something else entirely when the game disguises itself as entertainment, but in reality is nothing more than a psychological process for extracting money. Especially when that game is cynically and specifically crafted at every stage to exploit people's weaknesses. And that is predominantly what freemium games are. The mobile gaming industry itself acknowledges this. And yeah, it's shady AF. Actually, sleazy is probably a better word.
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Post by tonyfla on Aug 1, 2017 16:35:54 GMT -5
What, exactly, were you looking for? - a Win streak, a Damage Bonus, a more Gold/Silver/IP points, etc..? I've spent close to $400 since March and I'm will be spending considerably less, actually zero, with the current state of the game. Even the 'Butch on Sale didn't phase me .. and I at one point really wanted a Butch. Pixonic needs to address the gameplay to encourage spending .. Um, looking for exactly what I said in my message to Pix. And I made pretty clear in the OP that I'm not looking for pay-to-win options. I don't have a problem with the gameplay, other than the lag, which I figure they will clear up eventually. But even if they tweaked the game til the playing experience was the better-than-sex most awesome thing ever, it still wouldn't be worth hundreds of dollars. If they want to encourage spending, they should just set the prices so that value paid is equal to value received.
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Post by lilryry on Aug 1, 2017 16:42:51 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I've spent close to $500 since I started playing nearly six months ago. My original plan was to simply hash out $20 every payday for 2500 Au. But then the 3rd Anny event came along, and then the daily side deals. But I pretty much ignored the 4th of July event. I'm still picky about what I'd want to buy though. Not gonna buy another something I already have. And the WSP weapon deals are just garbage. My long term game investment now lies ultimately at a crossroads - either get my first Galahad, or wait for the Korean bots. (Which is safe to assume at this point that they will cost less than 14K Au.) in my opinion with rockets as powerful as they are a Galahad is a waste of gold at this point...I'm saving for Korean bots
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Post by Jame-thon on Aug 1, 2017 16:47:43 GMT -5
I have no problems spending money on this game. I've played games in the past where it was subscription based like someone mentioned above as well. To me that's fine. If I'm going to be spending my free time on a game like this, I' don't mind making an investment on something I enjoy. Especially if it helps me along the game. I'm not dropping like loads of money all at once, but here and there is fine. I find that they are constantly trying to make improvements and there have been some really nice turns for the better. Still things to work on but it is what it is and hopefully they'll address them someday. Hopefully they get better with different aspects, but I feel like they are trying.
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Post by infraviolet on Aug 1, 2017 16:51:07 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I've spent close to $500 since I started playing nearly six months ago. My original plan was to simply hash out $20 every payday for 2500 Au. But then the 3rd Anny event came along, and then the daily side deals. But I pretty much ignored the 4th of July event. I'm still picky about what I'd want to buy though. Not gonna buy another something I already have. And the WSP weapon deals are just garbage. My long term game investment now lies ultimately at a crossroads - either get my first Galahad, or wait for the Korean bots. (Which is safe to assume at this point that they will cost less than 14K Au.) in my opinion with rockets as powerful as they are a Galahad is a waste of gold at this point...I'm saving for Korean bots Might be the wisest thing to do at this point. I'll probably just keep saving Au then until the Korean bots actually arrive, so we all know their Au price, as well as META probability.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Aug 1, 2017 16:55:56 GMT -5
Caveat: tl;didn't read it all, skimmed. Didn't read another single post in this thread.
I'd not read too much into canned responses. Automated delivery is a feel good mechanism that works about as well as one would expect when there are thousands and thousands of players.
No one could hope to read even 1% of their monthly emails, let alone respond in a thoughtful manner.
This is about as good of a deal as one could expect, unfortunately.
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Electronetic
Destrier
Deprived of AU and WSP
Posts: 33
Karma: 10
Pilot name: Electronetic
Platform: iOS
Clan: UnitedWarRobots
League: Diamond
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Leo
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Post by Electronetic on Aug 1, 2017 17:04:17 GMT -5
For me, working hard and completing missions is much more satisfying than buying Au. Since War Robots has such little variety of bots and weapons, I would like to take my time grinding and enjoying the game rather than buying Au.
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Post by amidf on Aug 1, 2017 17:24:26 GMT -5
Haven't paid. Never will. Thanks to those of you who do.
It's taken me 7 months to build a nice 10/10 hangar. I got there by playing the game. Which is supposed to be fun.
-Amid
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Post by tonyfla on Aug 1, 2017 17:27:59 GMT -5
Caveat: tl;didn't read it all, skimmed. Didn't read another single post in this thread. I'd not read too much into canned responses. Automated delivery is a feel good mechanism that works about as well as one would expect when there are thousands and thousands of players. No one could hope to read even 1% of their monthly emails, let alone respond in a thoughtful manner. This is about as good of a deal as one could expect, unfortunately. I get what you're saying, and you're right. That's why I kind of expected the response I got. Guess I was not reading into this particular message so much as the system that allowed it. With good customer service, when a paying customer makes a complaint like that - concise, specific, and not foaming at the mouth - there is a procedure in place to escalate it up the chain. Low-level reps are trained to recognize messages that need further attention for the sake of customer retention. They forward them to someone who receives a much lower volume of complaints and who does have the time to craft a personal response at least acknowledging the customer's frustration. Maybe even make a symbolic gesture...in this instance, I dunno, hey, here's 100 gold to help make it better. Something that doesn't really fix the issue, but at least makes it look like they care. Last week, I complained to my ISP about frequent outages we've been having. Few days later, a "customer advocate" called and told me she was crediting my account for the days we were down. Only cut my bill by about $25, but it impressed the hell out of me. I know Pixonic doesn't have those kind of customer support resources. But it does seem significant to me that there's apparently nothing in place to even pretend they are actually listening to customers.
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Post by HoneyNutCheerios on Aug 1, 2017 17:32:48 GMT -5
I'm sorry sweetbuns but you made a poor decision and you must be held accountable for said decision.
Pix gets millions upon millions of dollars every year, thousands of messages from thousands of users...what do you expect? They're a business. They don't have the time or the patience to create a personalized message for every special sweetheart that gives them money.
If you want to get through a business, don't give them your money.
If you feel dissatisfied with their response leave them and find another game. There are hundreds of free-to-options out there, all ready to entertain you and give you more bang for your buck.
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Post by tonyfla on Aug 1, 2017 17:53:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry sweetbuns but you made a poor decision and you must be held accountable for said decision. Pix gets millions upon millions of dollars every year, thousands of messages from thousands of users...what do you expect? They're a business. They don't have the time or the patience to create a personalized message for every special sweetheart that gives them money. If you want to get through a business, don't give them your money. If you feel dissatisfied with their response leave them and find another game. There are hundreds of free-to-options out there, all ready to entertain you and give you more bang for your buck. Oh noooo, that's not condescending at all. Thanks for your thoughtful input. It was invaluable. Really. Can't wait to tell the GF that I got called 'sweetbuns' by some crotchety internet rando. She'll be so jelly.
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Post by HoneyNutCheerios on Aug 1, 2017 18:00:55 GMT -5
Can't wait to tell the GF that I got called 'sweetbuns' by some crotchety internet rando. She'll be so jelly. Awww, no problem honey buns! Send your misses my regards. Toodles <3 xoxoxo Edit: You just reminded me that I'm almost out of organic strawberry jelly. Gotta go get some.
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