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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 22:00:56 GMT -5
I recently won my second Zeus from the chests. I am interested in a mid range Carnage setup in high silver / low gold (really like midrange in squad battles) I was planning on getting a Trident Carnage, and already bought 1 of the 2 tridents. So here's the dilemma: Should I go for a Trident Carnage or put the trident on a Golem and stick the Zeus' on my future Carnage?
Right now my hangars are: 4/6 2x Thunder Boa Taran 1x Thunder Pinata Vityaz 1x Zeus Tulumbas Pin Golem 1x Magnum Ecu Patton
6/8 Pinata Thunder Leo <- might be replaced with a second Rhino or a Galahad Plasma Griffin Death Button Rhino <- will be interchanging with a Carnage Russian Death Button Griffin
5/6/5/5 Death Button Griffin
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Post by Fιεχροιητ™ on Dec 30, 2016 22:30:04 GMT -5
Zeus Carnage is stronger than the Trident Carnage. Only use the Trident Carnage if you plan on transitioning that to a Fury Tridents in the future.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Dec 30, 2016 22:37:57 GMT -5
Zeus Carnage is stronger than the Trident Carnage. Only use the Trident Carnage if you plan on transitioning that to a Fury Tridents in the future. I completely agree, the Trident Carnage is completely outclassed by the Zeus Carnage and I'd hazard to say that a Tri-CRV Gepard would be a better choice in high silver/low gold. In the tiers you mentioned, the dual Tridents deal insignificant damage and they will be ignored. Dual Zeus in the same tiers however are not mosquito bites if you aren't a shield bot (which there aren't as many if in high silver/low gold).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 23:38:22 GMT -5
Zeus Carnage it is then. Should I play it as hit & run or should I play it as a camper?
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mojo81
Destrier
FORGET THE BEACONS! JUST KILL THEM ALL!
Posts: 34
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Pilot name: Mojo-81
Platform: iOS
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Favorite robot: GRIFFIN
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Post by mojo81 on Dec 31, 2016 23:52:44 GMT -5
How about a 2x thunder carnage. If you like knife fighting that is.
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Post by Cyklown on Jan 1, 2017 0:33:29 GMT -5
How about a 2x thunder carnage. If you like knife fighting that is. I'm not saying that there are better knife fighters, but there are plenty that don't just randomly evaporate. At 4/6 a boa will give you a lot more room to get stuff done. Topic at large: I'd say that at 4/6 Zues may be better... But by 4-8 through 6/10 the Tridents become extremely more useful. The damage increases mean that you're still getting things done with your volleys, and the ability to get around hard cover and shields means you're more likely to be able to fire off of cool down. Your fire lines in Shenzen and Lost City are far more flexible.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 10:09:29 GMT -5
How about a 2x thunder carnage. If you like knife fighting that is. Tried that in test server. Didn't even get a chance to shoot back.
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Post by [ധ¡к¡] oDDD on Jan 1, 2017 11:22:37 GMT -5
Zeus Carnage it is then. Should I play it as hit & run or should I play it as a camper? Beacon cap while zapping. I run my zeus carnage from farm to dam, zapping as I go. Carnage can rush from cover to cover getting new firing angles all the time. I. Certain maps the only way to rack up damage is to keep moving all the time.
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Jan 1, 2017 18:49:12 GMT -5
How about a 2x thunder carnage. If you like knife fighting that is. Tried that in test server. Didn't even get a chance to shoot back. works best on shenzhen, dead city and powerplant. More open maps make it difficult to even travel across to the enemies side due to the blatant lack of cover.
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Post by Fιεχροιητ™ on Jan 1, 2017 19:43:33 GMT -5
Carnage Thunder is a high risk high reward robot. Can be a beast in some games but terrible in others.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Jan 1, 2017 21:40:10 GMT -5
IMO, the Thunder is the only logical choice of weapon for the Carnage.
The Trident/Zeus variants are too approachable (by the omnipresent Galahads in the higher tiers and Gepards in the lower tiers) and when that occurs it's mission of mid-range support goes out the window. Once on the defensive, there's not much you can do with 2 mid-range weapons that deliver middling damage.
The Thunder Carnage however can kill just about every bot in the game in 10-15 seconds it's Rush is used correctly and your gunning skills with the Thunder are good (it takes a lot of skill to use a Thunder efficiently).
Yes, the Carnage is fragile, but I believe that is because most pilots don't really understand how to properly utilize Rush (the bot travels a monstrous distance) and that Thunder gunnery skills are something all but former Thunder Schutze aficionados really attained high levels on. I have 2 Thunder Carnage in TT and they are a joy to use on all but Springfield and sometimes Canyon.
If the Heavy Molot ever gets here, the Carnage will become a standard on every TT match, as this weapon is ideally suited for it.
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Jan 1, 2017 21:54:21 GMT -5
IMO, the Thunder is the only logical choice of weapon for the Carnage. The Trident/Zeus variants are too approachable (by the omnipresent Galahads in the higher tiers and Gepards in the lower tiers) and when that occurs it's mission of mid-range support goes out the window. Once on the defensive, there's not much you can do with 2 mid-range weapons that deliver middling damage. The Thunder Carnage however can kill just about every bot in the game in 10-15 seconds it's Rush is used correctly and your gunning skills with the Thunder are good (it takes a lot of skill to use a Thunder efficiently). Yes, the Carnage is fragile, but I believe that is because most pilots don't really understand how to properly utilize Rush (the bot travels a monstrous distance) and that Thunder gunnery skills are something all but former Thunder Schutze aficionados really attained high levels on. I have 2 Thunder Carnage in TT and they are a joy to use on all but Springfield and sometimes Canyon. If the Heavy Molot ever gets here, the Carnage will become a standard on every TT match, as this weapon is ideally suited for it. One could also say that you shouldnt run a thunder carnage due to all the galahads around... zeus carnage performs quite effectively imo. Especially when the zeus actually works T.T.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Jan 1, 2017 23:35:02 GMT -5
IMO, the Thunder is the only logical choice of weapon for the Carnage. The Trident/Zeus variants are too approachable (by the omnipresent Galahads in the higher tiers and Gepards in the lower tiers) and when that occurs it's mission of mid-range support goes out the window. Once on the defensive, there's not much you can do with 2 mid-range weapons that deliver middling damage. The Thunder Carnage however can kill just about every bot in the game in 10-15 seconds it's Rush is used correctly and your gunning skills with the Thunder are good (it takes a lot of skill to use a Thunder efficiently). Yes, the Carnage is fragile, but I believe that is because most pilots don't really understand how to properly utilize Rush (the bot travels a monstrous distance) and that Thunder gunnery skills are something all but former Thunder Schutze aficionados really attained high levels on. I have 2 Thunder Carnage in TT and they are a joy to use on all but Springfield and sometimes Canyon. If the Heavy Molot ever gets here, the Carnage will become a standard on every TT match, as this weapon is ideally suited for it. One could also say that you shouldnt run a thunder carnage due to all the galahads around... zeus carnage performs quite effectively imo. Especially when the zeus actually works T.T. I don't know how effective a dual Zeus Carnage is in TT. I've not seen this bot really impact the match on any of the tight maps. There aren't tons of 500-600m firing positions, so all I have to do is get close and force the Carnage to move and that usually upsets their game for quite some time (so I've basically removed the Carnage from the match for 30-60 seconds while they run or reposition while my options are wide open). As for the Galahad while I am in a Carnage --- well, I can run (the wisest choice) a lot farther and faster than a Galahad while on Rush --- or I can hit the Rush to fight (it's never an easy or automatic kill at knifer ranges against any bot that has a 20KPH speed advantage - and Tarans/Mags miss a lot at extreme close range against an extremely moving target). Taran Lancelots and Taran Fujins are the setups that give me most problems really, not Galahads.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 8:08:43 GMT -5
Oh that's a difficult one, as I'm a big fan of both. There's a tipping point in tiers where the Zeus stops being effective, and the Trident becomes viable / useful. In low to mid silver, the L8/9 Zeus was a favourite, perfect for annoying and then frying Geps in particular. But, as you upgrade into low Gold, the sheer number of shield bots means you just can't do damage, so I switched to Tridents. As you're heading to low gold, be aware that most of the time the Zeus just isn't going to do anything to a Gal, Rhino, Lancelot or Gareth. In Gold it is very difficult to flank, and these bots will make up 1/2 the Reds. I stayed in Silver for a while while I upgraded the hanger for Gold, and the Zeus was perfect and great fun. In Gold, on the right maps (Yam, Shen, and Canyon in particular) the Carnage Trident is very effective. On other maps, nah.... The following is from this morning, in Yam, in a L7 W10 Carnage Trident, and a team mate was running the same setup. 700k Damage with 1 mech (repair cost of 17k).
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Post by RightOn on Jan 2, 2017 8:54:31 GMT -5
Disagree. Carnage doesnt have the HP's to take much advantage of Zeus low reload time. About the only good thing I can say about Zeus Carnage is that you have the speed boost to angle around physical shields.... but that's just a workaround for the issue... (I only recommend Zeus for Raijin)
Physical shields, that's the problem!
The reason Carnage Trident is just as important as Fury Trident, is Carnage can put pressure where it counts, Fury is basically a turret. Carnage will land more integral shots ALL DAY
So yeah, TriCarny is awesome, and ZeusCarn is merely OK
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Jan 2, 2017 9:02:28 GMT -5
Disagree. Carnage doesnt have the HP's to take much advantage of Zeus low reload time. About the only good thing I can say about Zeus Carnage is that you have the speed boost to angle around physical shields.... but that's just a workaround for the issue... (I only recommend Zeus for Raijin) Physical shields, that's the problem! The reason Carnage Trident is just as important as Fury Trident, is Carnage can put pressure where it counts, Fury is basically a turret. Carnage will land more integral shots ALL DAY So yeah, TriCarny is awesome, and ZeusCarn is merely OK This is an opinion, and I acknowledge that. But Zeus Carnage is literally the standard bearer of Glass Cannon. It packs a huge punch (well above its weight), and if it were to be debugged, it'd be a hard counter to mid range with its speed and rapid pace of fire. I wouldn't discount it so easily. Against KFs, of course TrCrn is better, but in MR skirmishes, Zeus dominates on paper. too bad 1/3 shots don't hit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 11:24:32 GMT -5
IMO, the Thunder is the only logical choice of weapon for the Carnage. The Trident/Zeus variants are too approachable (by the omnipresent Galahads in the higher tiers and Gepards in the lower tiers) and when that occurs it's mission of mid-range support goes out the window. Once on the defensive, there's not much you can do with 2 mid-range weapons that deliver middling damage. The Thunder Carnage however can kill just about every bot in the game in 10-15 seconds it's Rush is used correctly and your gunning skills with the Thunder are good (it takes a lot of skill to use a Thunder efficiently). Yes, the Carnage is fragile, but I believe that is because most pilots don't really understand how to properly utilize Rush (the bot travels a monstrous distance) and that Thunder gunnery skills are something all but former Thunder Schutze aficionados really attained high levels on. I have 2 Thunder Carnage in TT and they are a joy to use on all but Springfield and sometimes Canyon. If the Heavy Molot ever gets here, the Carnage will become a standard on every TT match, as this weapon is ideally suited for it. Thunder carnages are free kills for all my bots. Even with the full ancile, my death button griffin can still take it out
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Jan 2, 2017 12:34:33 GMT -5
IMO, the Thunder is the only logical choice of weapon for the Carnage. The Trident/Zeus variants are too approachable (by the omnipresent Galahads in the higher tiers and Gepards in the lower tiers) and when that occurs it's mission of mid-range support goes out the window. Once on the defensive, there's not much you can do with 2 mid-range weapons that deliver middling damage. The Thunder Carnage however can kill just about every bot in the game in 10-15 seconds it's Rush is used correctly and your gunning skills with the Thunder are good (it takes a lot of skill to use a Thunder efficiently). Yes, the Carnage is fragile, but I believe that is because most pilots don't really understand how to properly utilize Rush (the bot travels a monstrous distance) and that Thunder gunnery skills are something all but former Thunder Schutze aficionados really attained high levels on. I have 2 Thunder Carnage in TT and they are a joy to use on all but Springfield and sometimes Canyon. If the Heavy Molot ever gets here, the Carnage will become a standard on every TT match, as this weapon is ideally suited for it. Thunder carnages are free kills for all my bots. Even with the full ancile, my death button griffin can still take it out It is different in TT, I see Death Button Griffs and Plasma Death Button Griffs as easy kills with my Thunder Carnage. The turret speed on Griffs is glacial and I've too much field awareness to let a slow bot like a Griff ambush me. I've had plenty of Plasma Death Button Griff pilots in top tier try to jump in on me and I just hit the Rush and jink towards them ---- and I hold my fire until I'm <75m away. Its an easy kill cause Griffs suck as close combat knifers (please don't tell me they are good bots for this as a TT Mag Stalker pilot can eat a Plasma Death Button Griff alive by ringing them and a Rush Carnage is faster than a Stalker). Silver tier Carnage setups suck - period. Wait till you get to TT, you'll be eaten alive by pilots like me in Thunder Carnages if you use Griffs, Leos, and Rhinos.
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Post by nightmarepatrol on Jan 2, 2017 13:29:29 GMT -5
Carnage Thunder is a high risk high reward robot. Can be a beast in some games but terrible in others. Like he said it's very high risk but can have a very high reward. Sometimes when I run thunders on my carnage and get a Shenzen, Dead City And Powerplant sometimes I do extremely well. On Springfield and Canyon I'm lucky if I can get a kill before getting fried. The trident works well except on the smaller maps where you have to move a great deal to stay out of range of the knifers. When running thunders you have to play the ambush game. I don't have a Zeus and can't give you a comparison. Congrats on actualy winning something of actual value with the snowflakes. I haven't won much from the event except for some gold, silver, a couple of Vityaz, a Patton and a lot of pinatas.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 13:48:19 GMT -5
Thunder carnages are free kills for all my bots. Even with the full ancile, my death button griffin can still take it out It is different in TT, I see Death Button Griffs and Plasma Death Button Griffs as easy kills with my Thunder Carnage. The turret speed on Griffs is glacial and I've too much field awareness to let a slow bot like a Griff ambush me. I've had plenty of Plasma Death Button Griff pilots in top tier try to jump in on me and I just hit the Rush and jink towards them ---- and I hold my fire until I'm <75m away. Its an easy kill cause Griffs suck as close combat knifers (please don't tell me they are good bots for this as a TT Mag Stalker pilot can eat a Plasma Death Button Griff alive by ringing them and a Rush Carnage is faster than a Stalker). Silver tier Carnage setups suck - period. Wait till you get to TT, you'll be eaten alive by pilots like me in Thunder Carnages if you use Griffs, Leos, and Rhinos. I thought top tier was all shield bots and furies...
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Jan 2, 2017 14:11:49 GMT -5
It is different in TT, I see Death Button Griffs and Plasma Death Button Griffs as easy kills with my Thunder Carnage. The turret speed on Griffs is glacial and I've too much field awareness to let a slow bot like a Griff ambush me. I've had plenty of Plasma Death Button Griff pilots in top tier try to jump in on me and I just hit the Rush and jink towards them ---- and I hold my fire until I'm <75m away. Its an easy kill cause Griffs suck as close combat knifers (please don't tell me they are good bots for this as a TT Mag Stalker pilot can eat a Plasma Death Button Griff alive by ringing them and a Rush Carnage is faster than a Stalker). Silver tier Carnage setups suck - period. Wait till you get to TT, you'll be eaten alive by pilots like me in Thunder Carnages if you use Griffs, Leos, and Rhinos. I thought top tier was all shield bots and furies... TT is mostly Griffs by a wide margin. Griffs vs Thunder Carnage depends on the pilots, but I'd rather be the Carnage pilot if the combat distance is <75m. I have both Carnages and Griffins in TT and they both have quite similar attacks in that they both have a attribute that can put them in weapons range instantly. If you don't know the jump distance of a Griff very well, they are the most dangerous bots you will encounter in TT. However, if you are very field aware, Griffs are easy to avoid and easy to kill as the Thunder Carnage has superior firepower, speed, turret speed, and its cover a larger distance with its special ability.
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Jan 3, 2017 19:39:39 GMT -5
Disagree. Carnage doesnt have the HP's to take much advantage of Zeus low reload time. About the only good thing I can say about Zeus Carnage is that you have the speed boost to angle around physical shields.... but that's just a workaround for the issue... (I only recommend Zeus for Raijin) Physical shields, that's the problem! The reason Carnage Trident is just as important as Fury Trident, is Carnage can put pressure where it counts, Fury is basically a turret. Carnage will land more integral shots ALL DAY So yeah, TriCarny is awesome, and ZeusCarn is merely OK you mentioned that the trident carnage is more capable of landing shots more often than the trident fury, this is also the reason that the zeus would be very effective on a carnage, as in order to make best use of the zeus you need to have a line of sight on your target most of the time. Finding positions to take pop shots is what the carnage excels at as a midranger, so if the zeus reliably did damage, it would see much more play, even in high gold and top.
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Post by ŞĆĦŇIŦŽ€Ł on Jan 3, 2017 22:19:37 GMT -5
I'd go trid carny. Tridents have a large splash area, and can hit through physical shields. Zeus can't splash and can only go through energy shields. Tridents take 10s to reload and 3.7s to fire all 3 rockets (each doing the amount listed on the spec sheet), Zeus takes 5s to reload and does 1 burst of (whatever's listed on the spec sheet)
Choice is ultimately up to you.
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Axe
Destrier
Posts: 17
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Pilot name: ΛXΞ
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Post by Axe on Jan 4, 2017 0:31:22 GMT -5
Here's a quick video that I think illustrates when a Carnage/Thunder combo can work well. I talk through a little of what I think during these matches. Since this video I've started running a Zeus Carnage combo because I broaden my hangar to support mid- and long-range maps. This is Still Learning, an officer in 44Mag, and me playing a couple games while talking shop.
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Post by petevb on Jan 4, 2017 0:47:16 GMT -5
From a Top tier, top clan, maxed hanger perspective: Zeus > Trident > Thunder Carnage. IMHO.
Zeus Carnage are fairly common in Top clans. They are very effective run as flankers, where they can hit enemy Fury, RDB Griffin, past shields, etc. Played smart they are very difficult to run down even in a Plasma Galahad. Faced a clan the other day (swarm?) where every player was running at least one Zeus Carnage, some two. We won, (lots of Trident Fury focusing on the same targets) but it was close.
Trident Carnage typically play second fiddle to the Trident Fury, so they are much rarer. Run as flankers they are less of a threat than Zeus due to the lower DPM. Of course Tridents do good damage from center, but if you're playing from center you might as well have the higher DPM of the Fury.
Thunders... the Thunder Carnage is one of my favorite bots to play- tons of fun. Unfortunately I agree with the "hit or miss" sentiment. Top clans run lots of Plasma Galahad, Thunder Ork/ Taran Lancelot, plasma Griffin, etc that can eat a Thunder Carnage alive, and you risk doing very little damage. Hence while top players will run Thunder Carnage for fun, playing solo, etc, you won't see many run on the best clans in squad play...
All that said, while I have 2 maxed Carnage (out of 25 maxed bots) these days I rarely run either of them when I'm playing seriously.
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Post by EatStinkyTofu on Jan 4, 2017 21:14:32 GMT -5
I've been playing with my first Carnage in low gold for about a week using tridents while I get used to the ancile, rush, etc.
It's okay. The damage output is a little underwhelming but can make up for it by its high maneuverability to reposition itself rapidly and frequently. I feel like I'm doing a great job when I'm drawing attention from multiple reds who are trying to shut me down.
I feel like the biggest downside is that I have a hard time gauging how long to stay in it. I'm constantly checking the beacon bar but I get nervous because I can survive in the bot for over 5-6 minutes sometimes and I just can't get a good idea of how fast my teammates are cycling through their bots.
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Post by Cyklown on Jan 5, 2017 12:58:33 GMT -5
I've been playing with my first Carnage in low gold for about a week using tridents while I get used to the ancile, rush, etc. It's okay. The damage output is a little underwhelming but can make up for it by its high maneuverability to reposition itself rapidly and frequently. I feel like I'm doing a great job when I'm drawing attention from multiple reds who are trying to shut me down. I feel like the biggest downside is that I have a hard time gauging how long to stay in it. I'm constantly checking the beacon bar but I get nervous because I can survive in the bot for over 5-6 minutes sometimes and I just can't get a good idea of how fast my teammates are cycling through their bots. When in your roster are you using it? I've been using it second or third- second during those games where my first bot lasts far longer than it should or during games where we create a beacon advantage and can punish the enemy team for trying to get them back. That way you've ground enough value from the beginning of your hang to let others "tank" for you and can start exerting attrition control on the enemy. I'll almost never preemptively eject- I'll just take more aggressive firing positions up or die recapping a beacon in No Man's Land on Shenzen/Yam when the time comes
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Post by EatStinkyTofu on Jan 5, 2017 16:40:59 GMT -5
When in your roster are you using it? I've been using it second or third- second during those games where my first bot lasts far longer than it should or during games where we create a beacon advantage and can punish the enemy team for trying to get them back. That way you've ground enough value from the beginning of your hang to let others "tank" for you and can start exerting attrition control on the enemy. I'll almost never preemptively eject- I'll just take more aggressive firing positions up or die recapping a beacon in No Man's Land on Shenzen/Yam when the time comes I've been using it first on yamantau, canyon, and Springfield (if there's enough cover to get across the map). Otherwise, only at the end. Fortunately, I've generally had at least one teammate with a stalker or something going for center when I've done this. Maybe I got a little tired of being cannon fodder as the only person trying to take center at the beginning, and trying to be a little more patient, waiting for a more advantageous time to grab the center beacon. Also yes, if my teammates are pushing forward, and there is a matchup that I can be helpful for (2:1), then I try to move up with them... especially if I've been in the bot for more than 2 minutes. ... it's just a lot of things to pay attention to, compared to mixing it up right in the middle of the fight, or picking English vs Irish breakfast tea with the natashas.
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Post by Cyklown on Jan 5, 2017 17:16:23 GMT -5
When in your roster are you using it? I've been using it second or third- second during those games where my first bot lasts far longer than it should or during games where we create a beacon advantage and can punish the enemy team for trying to get them back. That way you've ground enough value from the beginning of your hang to let others "tank" for you and can start exerting attrition control on the enemy. I'll almost never preemptively eject- I'll just take more aggressive firing positions up or die recapping a beacon in No Man's Land on Shenzen/Yam when the time comes I've been using it first on yamantau, canyon, and Springfield (if there's enough cover to get across the map). Otherwise, only at the end. Fortunately, I've generally had at least one teammate with a stalker or something going for center when I've done this. Maybe I got a little tired of being cannon fodder as the only person trying to take center at the beginning, and trying to be a little more patient, waiting for a more advantageous time to grab the center beacon. Also yes, if my teammates are pushing forward, and there is a matchup that I can be helpful for (2:1), then I try to move up with them... especially if I've been in the bot for more than 2 minutes. ... it's just a lot of things to pay attention to, compared to mixing it up right in the middle of the fight, or picking English vs Irish breakfast tea with the natashas. Well, you can't go wrong with Tetley. That being said, try running out a Plasmahad first. You won't necessarily win the race to the beacons, but you can make it very expensive for the enemy team to fight over the center; remember that they enemy will face their own "lawl, not enough people are actually playing the game" problems to, you just don't notice it as much. Once your Plasmahad or equivalent is toast you'll be facing a more target- rich environment and won't be dealing with a solid wave, so target selection will be more of a science than an art and you can start turning the attrition screws up really high.
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