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Post by B30RLL on Dec 29, 2016 3:40:04 GMT -5
Hi all, I run a 7/9 hanger in trash/low gold tier. For the past several months my win rate has been around 60-70%, sometimes dipping into 50%. But in the past 10 days or so I've been on a major losing streak and win rate dropped to 38% now. This has never happened before. What am I doing wrong? I run a pretty 'by the book' hanger and I think I do ok skill-wise. For losses, 4 out of 5 games I finish at top for damage and usually have most beacons too, albeit in vain. Half the time rest of blue team does less than 100k damage either camping or afk, and the other half the time, blue team hustles but red team is on avg 2 levels higher on bots/weaps. I have not seen any other player in battle with a lower win rate than me. Even noobs and trash gold guys are 40-50% range. I tried switching my hanger around (below). Used to have an aphid leo which I swapped for thunder carny thinking maybe I have too many heavies. And I tried plasma griff instead of hellfire rhino to try no-wsp bot line up too, but none of them made meaningful changes. I'm still playing since we get snowflakes even when losing, but when the event is over, and this pattern persists, I'm considering throwing in the towel. Sure, win rate the number itself doesn't matter - but wasting my hanger in 3-4 mins trying to get in as much damage as I can before going down while fighting 1v4 is just not fun. This is the longest game I've ever played, because there's a good mix of ups and downs. Mindlessly firing until I'm dead just isn't fun. Anyway... Any thoughts on what i'm doing wrong? Anybody else seen long streaks of loss? (How to overcome?)  |
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Post by Heishiro on Dec 29, 2016 3:42:41 GMT -5
Go 7/10, they are just the same as 7/9.
after some match check the bot and weap levels of your random team and REDs.
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Dec 29, 2016 4:07:21 GMT -5
Dude, I don't think 'you're' doing anything wrong, your hangar looks pretty solid to me. I think you're just having a bad luck run with the blue side of things. But I kinda gotta ask; Have you scoped the opposition? Is their hangar grossly overpowered compared to yours (implying MM stuffup)? Are blues grossly underpowered compared to you?
Next question may not be relevant but.... Are you playing outside your normal 'play' window due to holidays etc? I ask because I notice a drop in opposition strength/skill if I play during the day on weekends and during weekdays now I'm on holiday as opposed to my usual window at night time.
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Post by B30RLL on Dec 29, 2016 4:36:10 GMT -5
Heishiro yes 7/10 is indeed the next step. But 9->10 weaps is so much silver! LOL Doesn't help that most of my bots are 4-hardpointed (griff, rhino, leo) 《₩hirl》 yeah, I suspect MM just hates me. I don't have a detailed log but a pattern I noticed is more often than not blue team has more AFK than red. And I end up with the guys who run 3 or 4 bot hangers. Other than that, level-wise most are similar 7~9 range for both bots and weaps. I see a lot of 8/9 or even 9/9 guys, so I'm starting to think the "weapons 2 levels higher than bot" thing becomes less relevant at some point? From time to time, I also get placed in high gold (11~12 bots weaps) where I die pretty quick, which is surprising as I thought "push up" happens only to players with HIGH win rates. My game time schedule hasn't changed significantly... I lose a lot throughout the day haha
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 29, 2016 4:37:28 GMT -5
When in doubt blame the reptilian who coded MM
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Dec 29, 2016 6:18:17 GMT -5
In regard to the whole lvl+2 rule, its around here (I also see up to 9/9ish) that many players divert and run their bots higher and still post good damage averages and winrates. I guess with all the weapon shuffling that's been going on its opened things up as far as personal preferences are concerned.
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asie
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Post by asie on Dec 29, 2016 15:16:56 GMT -5
Hi all, I run a 7/9 hanger in trash/low gold tier. For the past several months my win rate has been around 60-70%, sometimes dipping into 50%. But in the past 10 days or so I've been on a major losing streak and win rate dropped to 38% now. This has never happened before. What am I doing wrong? I run a pretty 'by the book' hanger and I think I do ok skill-wise. For losses, 4 out of 5 games I finish at top for damage and usually have most beacons too, albeit in vain. Half the time rest of blue team does less than 100k damage either camping or afk, and the other half the time, blue team hustles but red team is on avg 2 levels higher on bots/weaps. I have not seen any other player in battle with a lower win rate than me. Even noobs and trash gold guys are 40-50% range. I tried switching my hanger around (below). Used to have an aphid leo which I swapped for thunder carny thinking maybe I have too many heavies. And I tried plasma griff instead of hellfire rhino to try no-wsp bot line up too, but none of them made meaningful changes. I'm still playing since we get snowflakes even when losing, but when the event is over, and this pattern persists, I'm considering throwing in the towel. Sure, win rate the number itself doesn't matter - but wasting my hanger in 3-4 mins trying to get in as much damage as I can before going down while fighting 1v4 is just not fun. This is the longest game I've ever played, because there's a good mix of ups and downs. Mindlessly firing until I'm dead just isn't fun. Anyway... Any thoughts on what i'm doing wrong? Anybody else seen long streaks of loss? (How to overcome?) _______________________________________________________________ Just an idea: I think it could be because of the level of your robots. If I were you, I would opt for level 6 heavy robots, and develop the guns higher. And the higher weapon level I would have, the lower the robot health should be set. I had the same problem, changed back my level 7 robots to level 6 (bought new ones), developed guns higher, and it worked. For medium robots this is not sich a big issue, but for heavies it is. |
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Post by josette2 on Dec 29, 2016 16:24:05 GMT -5
Buy a trident fury and carry your team even more, run with clan, or just duo run with someone good.
I run 6/8 with full heavies with both penalties mainly duo queue with my bro and have a steady 86-90% Winrate. Unless the map is in deadcity or power plant, I always start with my TT fury and most of the time end the game without ejecting from it.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Dec 29, 2016 16:50:55 GMT -5
I have had similar streaks...
One option that may turn the tide some...
Get a capper in that hanger. Either a Stalker or Gary, or at the least, Gep. Preferably something you already have to test it out for you.
What I found on solo games that have crap Blues, is that once the reds get center on lock and then start pushing back at my campers, I could jump into my Gary and run to their far side beacon and/or home beacon and cause them to A.) lose a beacon and slow my beacon bar down, even if only temporarily, and B.) come after me and distract those that might have, instead, gone after my home or side beacons.
This doesn't work all the time, but it is one more ace in the hole. In theory, either the Gala or the Rhino should be able to do this, but I found the extra speed of the Gary and/or Stalker to be the tipping point as it could run to beacons and change them, then run to the next one and have it turned by the time the reds got to the previous one (Particularly in SF, Canyon, and Yam... and to a lesser degree, Shenzen). It isn't the most fun way to play all the time, but it can be quite satisfying when you get 8 beacon caps and top damage and the win against, what is essentially, the whole of the Red team.
Also, and this isn't about you, but after a loss, invite some of the quality reds to squad if you aren't in a clan or no one is online in your clan to squad with. Like was said above, just 1 wingman can turn the tide.
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Post by moody on Dec 29, 2016 18:03:57 GMT -5
I have had similar streaks... One option that may turn the tide some... Get a capper in that hanger. Either a Stalker or Gary, or at the least, Gep. Preferably something you already have to test it out for you. What I found on solo games that have crap Blues, is that once the reds get center on lock and then start pushing back at my campers, I could jump into my Gary and run to their far side beacon and/or home beacon and cause them to A.) lose a beacon and slow my beacon bar down, even if only temporarily, and B.) come after me and distract those that might have, instead, gone after my home or side beacons. This doesn't work all the time, but it is one more ace in the hole. In theory, either the Gala or the Rhino should be able to do this, but I found the extra speed of the Gary and/or Stalker to be the tipping point as it could run to beacons and change them, then run to the next one and have it turned by the time the reds got to the previous one (Particularly in SF, Canyon, and Yam... and to a lesser degree, Shenzen). It isn't the most fun way to play all the time, but it can be quite satisfying when you get 8 beacon caps and top damage and the win against, what is essentially, the whole of the Red team. Also, and this isn't about you, but after a loss, invite some of the quality reds to squad if you aren't in a clan or no one is online in your clan to squad with. Like was said above, just 1 wingman can turn the tide. For testing you could try a well armed Cossack or thunder Shultz. I am regularly breaking Gepards with a Shultz. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Dec 29, 2016 18:41:50 GMT -5
I have had similar streaks... One option that may turn the tide some... Get a capper in that hanger. Either a Stalker or Gary, or at the least, Gep. Preferably something you already have to test it out for you. What I found on solo games that have crap Blues, is that once the reds get center on lock and then start pushing back at my campers, I could jump into my Gary and run to their far side beacon and/or home beacon and cause them to A.) lose a beacon and slow my beacon bar down, even if only temporarily, and B.) come after me and distract those that might have, instead, gone after my home or side beacons. This doesn't work all the time, but it is one more ace in the hole. In theory, either the Gala or the Rhino should be able to do this, but I found the extra speed of the Gary and/or Stalker to be the tipping point as it could run to beacons and change them, then run to the next one and have it turned by the time the reds got to the previous one (Particularly in SF, Canyon, and Yam... and to a lesser degree, Shenzen). It isn't the most fun way to play all the time, but it can be quite satisfying when you get 8 beacon caps and top damage and the win against, what is essentially, the whole of the Red team. Also, and this isn't about you, but after a loss, invite some of the quality reds to squad if you aren't in a clan or no one is online in your clan to squad with. Like was said above, just 1 wingman can turn the tide. For testing you could try a well armed Cossack or thunder Shultz. I am regularly breaking Gepards with a Shultz. I guess so... but neither of those stands much chance of surviving long if they are forced to fight... he won't be seeing too many Geps... A Stalker has speed and stealth and the Gary has speed, decent firepower and a shield. Geps... no defensive ability but... well, its a Gep... they are basically fast medium bots, so either of those 3 will have a chance at the tier he is at, IMHO. |
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Post by EatStinkyTofu on Dec 29, 2016 19:01:24 GMT -5
I run 10/11 mediums with my 7/9 heavies. Might help a wee bit
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Post by ogpondskum on Dec 29, 2016 19:06:34 GMT -5
I had a similar issue that you did and mine started as soon as I updated my Rhinos to level 7. My win rate dropped from the mid 70s to the low 50s once I started running the level 7 Rhinos. I them out for a Griffins while I leveled up a new Rhinos to level 6 and my win rate started to climb again. I've been in the 80s with a high of 90 ever since.  |
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Post by Dejnov on Dec 29, 2016 21:33:37 GMT -5
I've had the same experience you've had, with a solid 60 to 72% win rate being dropped to high 30s and now back up to high 60s. This happened over a twenty game losing streak and now back to winning most games. I'm a fairly new player ( 1 month or so) and run a solid 5/7 all silver bot hangar. When I'm in my high sixties low seventies all of the gold bots and WSP bots come out (Gepards, Lances, Rhinos, spider bots, etc) wth some of them being 8/10 or higher. Generally pretty maxed decent gold hangars. I basically become a moving target. When my score hits the 30s to 40s I start to see machine guns and AT spirals again, I'm able to mow 5 to 6 bots again and all silver hangars are the norm. I also see absolutely no clubbers at all; the hangars might sport a lone gepard but the user doesn't know how to pilot it (I just whaled on an aphid boat gepard who shoot his salvo and then just STOOD THERE waiting to reload eating ECC Thunder from a Boa... 「whiskey tango foxtrot」...
I suspect that the latest update to matchmaker has two adjustments- matchmaker now uses both bot and weapon level for placement and the farther you are from 50% the more adjustment you get to your mm rating.
Dejnov
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Post by BLYTHE on Dec 29, 2016 22:06:31 GMT -5
Hey B30RLL, are you playing with a clan or soloing most of the time? Maybe it's not you but your clan. I'm not sure how sophisticated Pix's ELO rating sys is but I assume the algorithm takes into consideration your clan and is treating it as an entity; hence, taking someone else as the highest variable. Look at your clan mates' hangars, maybe someone's using a bot lvl too high.
Does that make sense to anyone?
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Post by Heishiro on Dec 29, 2016 22:45:43 GMT -5
Heishiro yes 7/10 is indeed the next step. But 9->10 weaps is so much silver! LOL Doesn't help that most of my bots are 4-hardpointed (griff, rhino, leo) you haven't seen the worst part yet  im already half way to level 12 and believe me the amount of silver you will need is unimaginable  to upgrade 1 orkan it will cost you 23,000,000 sillvers  |
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Post by petevb on Dec 30, 2016 0:58:34 GMT -5
For the past several months my win rate has been around 60-70%, sometimes dipping into 50%. But in the past 10 days or so I've been on a major losing streak and win rate dropped to 38% now. This has never happened before. What am I doing wrong? This is anocdotal, but I've noticed that it's gotten much harder to solo in the past week or so. In fact since Saturday I've averaged over 1M damage if I only count the solo games I've won. In other words I need to carry my team to win. It feels like the matchmaker has changed and is pairing me with outmatched teammates and against competent squads. So much so that as much as I like a challenge I find myself running with a squad far more often. So while I don't have any proof I don't think it's you. It's possible that your hanger has tripped you up, but I also think they may have started to test aspects of the new matchmaker already, possibly taking damage averages into account... I'd try inviting the better guys from your team or the opposition to form a pickup squad. I find the odds improve dramatically with a couple more decent guys. |
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Post by Heishiro on Dec 30, 2016 1:34:11 GMT -5
petevb, i also feel that way, its very hard to win now in solo. win or lose im always doing the top damage very seldom to take 2nd place.. i do feel that MM hates me, MM always pair me with almost useless team.. i do make 600k to 700k damage and sometimes almost 800k while my team 2-3 players cant even make 300k damage. and most of the time 5 vs 6. and im on the 5 player team 
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Post by couchtrader on Dec 30, 2016 1:36:21 GMT -5
B30RLL, I suggest that you give yourself a break and go down to silver to get away from the losing streak. Personally, I look at my avg damage to gauge whether I'm doing good or bad despite losing. I don't mind losing as long as I do well on damage but if I'm doing all the work on a losing streak, I'll take a break from the MM nonsense and go down a tier or two to have my efforts rewarded.
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 30, 2016 1:36:22 GMT -5
Perfect example Heishiro , game i had 1/2h ago on dead city  |
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Post by Heishiro on Dec 30, 2016 1:45:51 GMT -5
Personally, I look at my avg damage to gauge whether I'm doing good or bad despite losing. I don't mind losing as long as I do well on damage but if I'm doing all the work on a losing streak, I'll take a break from the MM nonsense and go down a tier or two to have my efforts rewarded. i also do this, rather than wasting time in gold tier i go back to my farming/clubbing setup and win 6-8 games. then go back again to gold |
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Post by petevb on Dec 30, 2016 2:38:14 GMT -5
At least you weren't up against a clan Camper. I've been hitting these consistently. And the last 5 solo games I won: 1.13M, 1.00M, 1.11M, 1.40M, .825M damage. It's been getting... "interesting" out there. Something has changed IMHO...   |
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Post by B30RLL on Dec 30, 2016 3:14:11 GMT -5
Thanks for the great tips guys. Glad to know it's not just me LOL. As an update, actually something must have triggered MM again and I'm winning a few now. Back to 50% win rate. Maybe someone at pixo picked up on my whining XD asie yeah that's what I had suspected too, but when I look at other players in matches, majority of them are running 8/9 or even 9/9 heavies, so I'm beginning to think weap level has higher weighting than bot weighting. 《₩hirl》 was suggesting similar as well. Besides, I don't have enough resources to buy and upgrade new bots so kinda stuck with these L7 guys  josette2 when I ran 6/8 heavies I had pretty high win rate too (+80%). In retrospect think that was really top-end of silver tier, and when I upgraded weaps to 9, suddenly started seeing more advanced players and got much harder to carry matches. I do want a TT fury though... someday, someday... ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 that is a pretty good idea. I'm planning to deploy a 2nd gala once he's leveled, and will try using him first. If not fast enough, I am open to investing in a gary. Been thinking about it since watching Ace Thunder's tutorials haha. I'm a bit skeptical with using the ostrich or Cossack though. moody at what tier do you use your shutz? I hardly see them in gold EatStinkyTofu when you say 10/11 mediums - does that include galahad and carny? Those are the 2 meds I use these days. Heard britbots and WSP bots get penalty though ogpondskum OMG your stats are unbelievable dude! This is almost exactly what I'm aiming for, but intend to have a griff in there instead of the rhino. Unrelated Q: how do you like your lance? Not too slow at L6? I'm close to 5k and considering getting one Dejnov yeah in silver I noticed that the effect of win rate was pretty significant in MM placement. Oscillation of win rate was pretty constant. In gold territory though, in my experience, seems less relevant. At 38% win rate and 7/9 hangar I was seeing 80%+ guys running 8/10 hangars =_= BLYTHE always enjoy the 'out of box' perspective you offer I'm in wiki gold clan and yes most of the guys there run higher hangar than me. I actually enjoy playing against higher level guys as it forces you to be more tactical and use cover. My main concern is getting afk and 3-bot-hangar blues and getting steamrolled without a fair fight petevb Heishiro glad to know that the experienced top guys are also experiencing the same. Yeah I've been running mostly solo these past few days (snowflake farming...) and it's been horrible. After the match I'll see the guys who did less than 50k dmg and still got 2 snowflakes, which you won't get if you leave the match - So they got killed in their first bot and just watched rest of the match without dropping their 2nd bot? What the what? petevb you take photos of all your match results?! That 1.4m game looks bad「bum-bum」, dude couchtrader I tried dropping down: ran 4/9 non-penalty med, but somehow I was still getting placed with 7/8 trash-gold level guys? (including rhino, britbots). Do I need to run lower level bots? Or maybe MM needs some time to reassess me and place me in a lower tier? CΛΜΡΞΓ™ is your clan name BMF a reference to Samuel L Jackson's wallet in Pulp Fiction? If it is - mad respect! XD |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 30, 2016 3:41:19 GMT -5
I'm not actually sure B30RLL haha, but it stands for the same thing, so I wouldn't be surprised |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 30, 2016 3:42:47 GMT -5
CΛΜΡΞΓ™ brother mother father obviously
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Post by couchtrader on Dec 30, 2016 5:55:35 GMT -5
B30RLL, that's the cursed MM glitch wherein you get matched in the same tier despite changing bots to a lower tier. It's fun when it happens in reverse. Closing the game app and restarting usually fixes it. Try restarting the device also.
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Post by EatStinkyTofu on Dec 30, 2016 6:05:09 GMT -5
Yes, I use WSP and gold mediums (Galahad and carnage).
Any WSP (regardless of MM score) adds a penalty to your entire hangar.
As for gold bots, the only penalties that people have reported are that the Brit- and QuickDraw bots bounce you out of bronze-silver tiers, but no differences once you are in higher tiers.
If you're nervous about screwing up your MM score, you should be able go up to 9/9 or 9/10 and keep a big fudge factor. In your current hangar, it would make your thunder carnage a lot tougher.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 6:26:54 GMT -5
For the past several months my win rate has been around 60-70%, sometimes dipping into 50%. But in the past 10 days or so I've been on a major losing streak and win rate dropped to 38% now. This has never happened before. What am I doing wrong? This is anocdotal, but I've noticed that it's gotten much harder to solo in the past week or so. In fact since Saturday I've averaged over 1M damage if I only count the solo games I've won. In other words I need to carry my team to win. It feels like the matchmaker has changed and is pairing me with outmatched teammates and against competent squads. So much so that as much as I like a challenge I find myself running with a squad far more often. So while I don't have any proof I don't think it's you. It's possible that your hanger has tripped you up, but I also think they may have started to test aspects of the new matchmaker already, possibly taking damage averages into account... I'd try inviting the better guys from your team or the opposition to form a pickup squad. I find the odds improve dramatically with a couple more decent guys. B30RLL - Yes, Ditto for me. I've got a very similar hanger, i've just got all my weapons up to L10. FYI - you can push your Gal up to L8, and stay in the same "tier". Depending on your play, i tend to lead with my Gal as its quick enough to cap with the shield down, and will take out most Griffs and Leo's if you need to go toe-toe. I've had to push my Carnage up a level to make it viable. Most of the time i run it with Tridents as a Big Rocket support bot. Its the same story for many of us, I went from 500K damage average and 75+% win to 380K and 42% win in a couple of weeks. and most of the time I was teamed with 2 "learners" against 3-4 clan-ers. PeteVB - I'm suspicious the Pix MM will match the Clan team first, and then will cobble together the opposition. Commercially, i can understand it, but its a right pain. |
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Post by B30RLL on Dec 30, 2016 6:51:49 GMT -5
In your current hangar, it would make your thunder carnage a lot tougher. Thanks. And you're right about the thunder carny - so squishy now at L7 |
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Post by B30RLL on Dec 30, 2016 7:03:35 GMT -5
Thanks NerFB after reading these posts I'm thinking of trying 8/10 med and 7/9 heavies and see how it goes. Don't know how that will be impacted by new MM due in a few months, but at least my gala and carny will be more durable. Do you high gold guys all use premium? How do you get the Ag to do the upgrades? *_* |
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im already half way to level 12 and believe me the amount of silver you will need is unimaginable 
to upgrade 1 orkan it will cost you 23,000,000 sillvers 
