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Post by Russel on Jun 16, 2017 7:17:34 GMT -5
Just another 2 cents in the same box. To make "not meching out" easier, follow simple rules:
- Try to attack when you have the advantage (i.e. two of you against 1 enemy; or superior weapons or range advantage, or cover) - Do not attack while on reload (especially rockets\Taran) - Always check for snipers. They are not that hard to spot, even on small screen.
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vinceh
Destrier
Posts: 82
Karma: 39
Pilot name: Pilot VincentH
Platform: Android
League: Master
Server Region: North America
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Post by vinceh on Jun 16, 2017 11:21:46 GMT -5
Just did it again. Used only my Carnage in Shenzhen. My team lost. I ran away from a Gareth which ran from its spawn to our spawn and captured our beacon. I hid behind the buildings to conserve my Carnage's hp. This is not a good way to play. that's why trident natasha is better. It can not run away. just dies in time so that you use your other bots .
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Post by bilbobaggins on Jun 16, 2017 11:26:17 GMT -5
Just did it again. Used only my Carnage in Shenzhen. My team lost. I ran away from a Gareth which ran from its spawn to our spawn and captured our beacon. I hid behind the buildings to conserve my Carnage's hp. This is not a good way to play. that's why trident natasha is better. It can not run away. just dies in time so that you use your other bots . Dude, I like the way you think... but I bought and sold a Natasha because I like to move around (when I'm not eating snacks while playing). I have been utilizing cover more since reading this thread, but I feel like such a coward. I'd rather be an idiot than a coward.
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 16, 2017 12:05:52 GMT -5
bilbobagginsI think with time and experience, you'll be able to quickly tell if you have an advantage or disadvantage against an incoming red. And it'll become more of a snap decision of "can I engage directly" or "should I use cover/play this one smart"? It's not about playing a run and hide game all the time. It's about knowing when it's a smart decision to wait a situation out. Example would be me in a Griffin/Orkan/Piñata against a Gareth(of any variety). I know I have a huge advantage, so I'm good to engage directly - as in I don't need, actually I don't want, cover between me and him. The next part of that engagement though is to not let that specific advantage pull you out into a disadvantage. If you can kill the Gareth without using your jump, then do that. Often times jumping or over-pursuing will pull you out into the open and you get obliterated. So in this scenario, I will try to use my surroundings to provide me cover against the rest of the field while I'm dealing with the Gareth. In your scenario earlier with your Carnage, I would try to keep either cover or my own teammates between myself and any red with plasma. I'll give you a real life scenario (let's make it comparable to your Carnage v Gareth). Let's say your in a very strange, but very real war. You have an enemy coming at you, and he's equipped with a rifle. You have nothing but a set of brass knuckles, but you're one of the best in the world at close quarters combat. You wouldn't rush out into the open from 300ft away trying to take this guy out, because a couple shots from his rifle will put you down quickly. You'll use cover until he either comes to you, or you sneak up on him. Then, in close quarters combat, his rifle is much less useful and you have a huge advantage. Playing it smart doesn't make you a coward. It makes you the winner.
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Post by Russel on Jun 16, 2017 12:26:42 GMT -5
I never understood the concept behind "cowardness" and "honest fight", too. It's the same in streetracing here. My 4wd can outperform any BMW in bad road, rain, dirty asphalt, mud asphalt and of course in winter. And every BMW owner is shouting: "It was not fair!! We should try to do it fair way, in a situation where everybody's equal!"
For me it sound like: "Let's pick situation where I am at advantage, and call it "equal"".
Same here; if you are smarter - you can use cover, ambush, distance to your advantage.
Simple situation - I am in Molot Griff, and I'm shooting Thunder Carnage in Canyon, who is running at me from 800m, while backpedaling. Am I being coward? Do I need to wait until he will be at 100m and start shooting only then?
Questions, questions...
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 16, 2017 12:36:07 GMT -5
I never understood the concept behind "cowardness" and "honest fight", too. It's the same in streetracing here. My 4wd can outperform any BMW in bad road, rain, dirty asphalt, mud asphalt and of course in winter. And every BMW owner is shouting: "It was not fair!! We should try to do it fair way, in a situation where everybody's equal!" For me it sound like: "Let's pick situation where I am at advantage, and call it "equal"". Same here; if you are smarter - you can use cover, ambush, distance to your advantage. Simple situation - I am in Molot Griff, and I'm shooting Thunder Carnage in Canyon, who is running at me from 800m, while backpedaling. Am I being coward? Do I need to wait until he will be at 100m and start shooting only then? Questions, questions... I think he's more saying that he feels like a coward for hiding his Thunder Carnage behind a building when a Plasma Gareth is coming. Would be similar to your BMW driver saying "Hell no im not racing your 4wd on an off-road course!" That's not being a coward, that's just being smart. Nonetheless, the point remains. There's a keen difference between being smart and being a coward.
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Post by Russel on Jun 16, 2017 12:41:24 GMT -5
I never understood the concept behind "cowardness" and "honest fight", too. It's the same in streetracing here. My 4wd can outperform any BMW in bad road, rain, dirty asphalt, mud asphalt and of course in winter. And every BMW owner is shouting: "It was not fair!! We should try to do it fair way, in a situation where everybody's equal!" For me it sound like: "Let's pick situation where I am at advantage, and call it "equal"". Same here; if you are smarter - you can use cover, ambush, distance to your advantage. Simple situation - I am in Molot Griff, and I'm shooting Thunder Carnage in Canyon, who is running at me from 800m, while backpedaling. Am I being coward? Do I need to wait until he will be at 100m and start shooting only then? Questions, questions... I think he's more saying that he feels like a coward for hiding his Thunder Carnage behind a building when a Plasma Gareth is coming. Would be similar to your BMW driver saying "Hell no im not racing your 4wd on an off-road course!" That's not being a coward, that's just being smart. Nonetheless, the point remains. There's a keen difference between being smart and being a coward. That was actually my point :-D You need to do something - you did it, by any means necessary. You are good. Doesn't matter if you hide\run\ambush\trick enemy or attacked him from behind.
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inspirace
Trusted Contributor
Posts: 2,670
Karma: 2,959
Pilot name: inspirace
Platform: iOS
Clan: NEW
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Favorite robot: Rog, Griff, Carn, Doc, Rhino, Haechi, Kumiho, Bulgasari, Mender, Inquisitor, Spectre, Strider,
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Post by inspirace on Jun 16, 2017 13:00:33 GMT -5
the original post was not about being more reserved and less aggressive all the time. the thesis was "do not waste bots". being too defensive and evading any conflict to save a bot would be just another solid way of wasting it
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 16, 2017 13:06:35 GMT -5
the original post was not about being more reserved and less aggressive all the time. the thesis was "do not waste bots". being too defensive and evading any conflict to save a bot would be just another solid way of wasting it Very good way to put it.
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Post by bilbobaggins on Jun 16, 2017 13:25:10 GMT -5
bilbobaggins I think with time and experience, you'll be able to quickly tell if you have an advantage or disadvantage against an incoming red. And it'll become more of a snap decision of "can I engage directly" or "should I use cover/play this one smart"? It's not about playing a run and hide game all the time. It's about knowing when it's a smart decision to wait a situation out. Example would be me in a Griffin/Orkan/Piñata against a Gareth(of any variety). I know I have a huge advantage, so I'm good to engage directly - as in I don't need, actually I don't want, cover between me and him. The next part of that engagement though is to not let that specific advantage pull you out into a disadvantage. If you can kill the Gareth without using your jump, then do that. Often times jumping or over-pursuing will pull you out into the open and you get obliterated. So in this scenario, I will try to use my surroundings to provide me cover against the rest of the field while I'm dealing with the Gareth. In your scenario earlier with your Carnage, I would try to keep either cover or my own teammates between myself and any red with plasma. I'll give you a real life scenario (let's make it comparable to your Carnage v Gareth). Let's say your in a very strange, but very real war. You have an enemy coming at you, and he's equipped with a rifle. You have nothing but a set of brass knuckles, but you're one of the best in the world at close quarters combat. You wouldn't rush out into the open from 300ft away trying to take this guy out, because a couple shots from his rifle will put you down quickly. You'll use cover until he either comes to you, or you sneak up on him. Then, in close quarters combat, his rifle is much less useful and you have a huge advantage. Playing it smart doesn't make you a coward. It makes you the winner. But the Gareth was not afraid of my Zeus Carnage... he confidently ran towards me to capture our home beacon. He didn't chase me around... he waited for me as I hid like a coward. What should I have done... spawned in my Orkan Rog (the only bot in my hangar with missiles)? I'm not fond of ejecting out of healthy bots.
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 16, 2017 13:52:57 GMT -5
bilbobagginsPersonally, I'd wait it out and keep the Gareth on the opposite side of the building from you. Zeus Carnage vs Plasma Gareth is almost literally an impossible scenario for you. Your only option to save your bot is to "keep him busy" until a teammate kills him while he's distracted with you. Then if the Gareth turns to face your teammate, you can pop out and zap him in the tushy. The problem here is you have to rely on teammates, and those aren't always reliable. Try to gauge the field and see if any of your teammates are even close by. If they are, wait it out. If there are none anywhere nearby, and this Gareth has you cornered in your spawn, then I would scrap your Carnage in favor of the Rog. (Possibly let the Gareth shoot you until his Taran runs out and then immediately scrap into your Rog) That way you'll have 5 seconds of no Taran. The net result of this is essentially a 1:1 bot tradeoff, which isn't bad for worst case scenario. In my story of an example, I did get lucky in the fact that my teammates arrived for support just in time. Moon Map is also a map that naturally funnels people through the middle, so I was bound to get support eventually if I waited long enough. The luck part was that the Ancilot was just getting close enough that I wasn't going to be able to use the pillars as ample cover anymore. I know there's a ton of things that go into mastering this type of strategy, so it isn't something you'll get great at immediately. It'll be something that has to develop over time and many games. I've been playing for about seven months and I hit google and these boards immediately looking for skills and strategy to start developing. And even after seven months of practice and development, I sometimes still don't follow my own advice, and sometimes I simply fail at it. The story above happened to be a game where I played almost all my scenarios nearly perfectly - which is a very rare occurance.
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inspirace
Trusted Contributor
Posts: 2,670
Karma: 2,959
Pilot name: inspirace
Platform: iOS
Clan: NEW
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Favorite robot: Rog, Griff, Carn, Doc, Rhino, Haechi, Kumiho, Bulgasari, Mender, Inquisitor, Spectre, Strider,
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Post by inspirace on Jun 16, 2017 17:42:02 GMT -5
... Playing it smart doesn't make you a coward. It makes you the winner. But the Gareth was not afraid of my Zeus Carnage... he confidently ran towards me to capture our home beacon. He didn't chase me around... he waited for me as I hid like a coward. What should I have done... spawned in my Orkan Rog (the only bot in my hangar with missiles)? I'm not fond of ejecting out of healthy bots. 1. this is why I run a zeus/tri-hybrid carnage . it's more versatile (though may be weaker in dmg output) as a mid-ranger, and in a situation like this, it will at least make the Gary uneasy. the worst opponenet to this setup ... would be a zeus carnage (or zeus fury) ... 2. in Shenzhen, a zeus carn's role would be to keep away reds from the center beacon and assist others capping and defending beacons. if you find yourself defending a beacon alone, you are most likely in a wrong place (or your team is screwed). you can either give up the beacon (perfectly fine) and go somewhere else where you can assist other blue, or, zeus the Gary shield as much as you can, die, and come back with other bot. hide and wait for help will be another option if you can expect a help soon. but hiding until you are losing would be a bad idea, wasting the zeus carn and all of your remaining bots
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 16, 2017 18:04:19 GMT -5
I prefer to live as long as possible per bot if i can . Although hitting the eject button is a great way to "teleport" back to your spawn point if your bot is very very slow . Very useful trick if you play two Raijins.
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Post by bilbobaggins on Jun 16, 2017 18:21:07 GMT -5
bilbobaggins Personally, I'd wait it out and keep the Gareth on the opposite side of the building from you. Zeus Carnage vs Plasma Gareth is almost literally an impossible scenario for you. Your only option to save your bot is to "keep him busy" until a teammate kills him while he's distracted with you. Then if the Gareth turns to face your teammate, you can pop out and zap him in the tushy. The problem here is you have to rely on teammates, and those aren't always reliable. Try to gauge the field and see if any of your teammates are even close by. If they are, wait it out. If there are none anywhere nearby, and this Gareth has you cornered in your spawn, then I would scrap your Carnage in favor of the Rog. (Possibly let the Gareth shoot you until his Taran runs out and then immediately scrap into your Rog) That way you'll have 5 seconds of no Taran. The net result of this is essentially a 1:1 bot tradeoff, which isn't bad for worst case scenario. In my story of an example, I did get lucky in the fact that my teammates arrived for support just in time. Moon Map is also a map that naturally funnels people through the middle, so I was bound to get support eventually if I waited long enough. The luck part was that the Ancilot was just getting close enough that I wasn't going to be able to use the pillars as ample cover anymore. I know there's a ton of things that go into mastering this type of strategy, so it isn't something you'll get great at immediately. It'll be something that has to develop over time and many games. I've been playing for about seven months and I hit google and these boards immediately looking for skills and strategy to start developing. And even after seven months of practice and development, I sometimes still don't follow my own advice, and sometimes I simply fail at it. The story above happened to be a game where I played almost all my scenarios nearly perfectly - which is a very rare occurance. Listen, either way... I would've had to waste the Zeus Carnage by either losing to a knife-fight against the Gareth or by ejecting, which is the opposite of what you advise us to do. In a battle I had about 30 minutes, I lost to another Gareth while using a Thunder Carnage. I tried to outmaneuver him, but I lost. I couldn't get within 200m, and a lot of my shots were missing because my aim sucks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 21:55:28 GMT -5
Sometimes the best strategy is to charge all in to do as much damage as possible. The aggressor usually can do more damage and get more beacons. Your teammates will join in since they can sense blood, plus if you've gotten the side or centre beacons. Red gets put on the defensive, so they are disorganized and chaos reigns. At this point, red gets timid and dont go for beacons because they don't want to leave the safety of their spawn. If the game ends quickly because you were aggressive with beacons and damage, then you can still do more damage than the rest of your team that was more "careful".
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Post by bilbobaggins on Jun 16, 2017 22:25:33 GMT -5
Sometimes the best strategy is to charge all in to do as much damage as possible. The aggressor usually can do more damage and get more beacons. Your teammates will join in since they can sense blood, plus if you've gotten the side or centre beacons. Red gets put on the defensive, so they are disorganized and chaos reigns. At this point, red gets timid and dont go for beacons because they don't want to leave the safety of their spawn. If the game ends quickly because you were aggressive with beacons and damage, then you can still do more damage than the rest of your team that was more "careful". I agree, although this can backfire. I've lost many matches because we were aggressive in the first five minutes... and then the red team is like "OUR TURN!" and slaughtered us. They didn't need to capture the beacons. They let us wear ourselves out first and then mech out. Nothing makes me want to cry in this game except when my teams lose with more than 50% of the blue bar showing, while the red bar is below 25% but we're all dead.
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