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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on May 21, 2017 18:08:18 GMT -5
Buds before slots and bots...
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Post by snk on May 21, 2017 18:21:10 GMT -5
I've seen too many matches in Android Silver/Gold lost in the last two minutes due to my teammates 'meching out early. There are powerful 'bots and weapons to be had for silver and WSP; the only possible Au expenditures I could see viable while you're grinding out the 5th slot, as others have said, is either a pair of Orkans or (in my opinion) a Gareth. Those add some considerable tactical choices to a lower-level hangar. Go for that 5th slot. You will need it to be anything close to competitive in Gold and beyond. Sometimes the one mech out early could be 5 slots hanger player, and I only need 2 bots not to mech out, sniper and homing missile bot. There is a reason if someone with 3-4 slot hanger players has higher league ratings than those with 5 slot hanger, one of the reason is they are better players (skill or hanger) than the one with 5 slot hanger players.
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Post by Vectivus on May 21, 2017 20:28:14 GMT -5
I've seen too many matches in Android Silver/Gold lost in the last two minutes due to my teammates 'meching out early. There are powerful 'bots and weapons to be had for silver and WSP; the only possible Au expenditures I could see viable while you're grinding out the 5th slot, as others have said, is either a pair of Orkans or (in my opinion) a Gareth. Those add some considerable tactical choices to a lower-level hangar. Go for that 5th slot. You will need it to be anything close to competitive in Gold and beyond. Sometimes the one mech out early could be 5 slots hanger player, and I only need 2 bots not to mech out, sniper and homing missile bot. There is a reason if someone with 3-4 slot hanger players has higher league ratings than those with 5 slot hanger, one of the reason is they are better players (skill or hanger) than the one with 5 slot hanger players. But that's the exception, not the rule. Just had it happen again tonight: Two of our team with 4-bot hangars 'meched out early, and it cost us the match. Get the 5th slot. Can't be said enough.
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Post by snk on May 21, 2017 20:46:26 GMT -5
Sometimes the one mech out early could be 5 slots hanger player, and I only need 2 bots not to mech out, sniper and homing missile bot. There is a reason if someone with 3-4 slot hanger players has higher league ratings than those with 5 slot hanger, one of the reason is they are better players (skill or hanger) than the one with 5 slot hanger players. But that's the exception, not the rule. Just had it happen again tonight: Two of our team with 4-bot hangars 'meched out early, and it cost us the match. Get the 5th slot. Can't be said enough. Galahad will last 2 times longer or more than PDB Griffin in lower league, when there aren't many Tridents Fury or just low level RBD Griffin, there aren't even Orkans if everyone go for 5th slot first. I believe PDB Griffin is already the best bot they got if they go Taran and Magnum (WSP) and 5th slot (Au) first. 5 slot won't mech out is totally not true, 5 12/12 Ancilelot will mech out faster than 1 6/6 homing missiles Griffin. League rating is more accurate way to judge a player performance. If a 3 or 4 slot player has higher league rating than those 5 slot player? The higher league rating player simply a better player. Higher League rating = win more match + done more damage 5th bot always the weakest bot, they won't last long. 4 bots hanger only need to survive 30 seconds per bots more to stay for the whole match.
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Post by Paps on May 22, 2017 0:46:32 GMT -5
Are you actually saying a single stock Griffin with hydras and spirals is better than an entire hangar of maxed ancile Lancelots, snk? It's what my eyes are telling me, but I can't believe that's what you really mean... Aaaaaanyways. Get your 5th hangar slot, folks. Your teammates will thank you. ...Actually. If you're an Android player I don't regularly squad with, feel free to not. I don't mind easy competition in matches.
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Post by snk on May 22, 2017 1:08:07 GMT -5
Are you actually saying a single stock Griffin with hydras and spirals is better than an entire hangar of maxed ancile Lancelots, snk ? It's what my eyes are telling me, but I can't believe that's what you really mean... Aaaaaanyways. Get your 5th hangar slot, folks. Your teammates will thank you. ...Actually. If you're an Android player I don't regularly squad with, feel free to not. I don't mind easy competition in matches. You still don't get it, mech out or not is depend how you play and what type of bot you are using. Saying 5th slot player is better than 4 slot player simply Wrong. Saying buying 5th slot is doing your teammates a favour is funny. 5th slot player in the same league with the 4 slot player because the 5 slot player isn't helping his team win more than the 4 slot player, that why they are in the same league/class. Just answer me one question, why some 4 slot player has much more league point than 5th slot player? my answer is, the 4 slot player is a better player, won more match for the team, done more damage for the team. What is your answer? Don't tell me 5 ten dollars note is better than 4 twenty dollars note, ? Anyway, I am in Master League with 5 slot. I have a very weak 5th bot which I hardly use, don't bother to upgrade it and gona be replaced by shinning Au bot which worth to upgrade.
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Post by Tatamat on May 22, 2017 5:57:22 GMT -5
Impressive how this topic is still alive.
One comes back after weekend and finds a thread with 5 pages! Amazing.
Not much new to tell (I guess my first-Au-before-5th opinion is known), let me summarize my opinion on the bunch of data we have here:
The answer is LEVEL AND THUS LEAGUE DEPENDENT. Why? - Weapons increase their output 2.8 times (lvl 1 to 12) - Bots increase their durability by 1.97 times => the higher level you go, the more urgent need for more bots (it takes shorter to shoot down a bot) THAT'S WHY EXPERIENCED PLAYERS FROM HIGHER LEAGUES CAN'T FIND A COMMON POINT WITH SILVER PLAYERS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but IMO not many high league players run a secondary Silver hangar with a first-Au-before-5th approach. If you don't have such hangar, your Silver experience is from old MM times, thus much different.
Therefore I suggest this: - Bronze (weps lvl <6) - 3 slots still OK, 4 slots advantage though not used every game - Silver III (weps lvl 6-7) - 3 slots experience mechout = liability, 4 slots OK, 5 slots advantage (more tactical than mechout) - Silver II (weps lvl 7-9) - 4 slots starts to experience mechout = sometimes liability, 5 slots fully comfortable - Silver I (weps 8-10) - 4 slots require more and more defensive play = more a liability, 5 slots OK - Above - 5 slots necessary to be a full member of the squad
General consensus on weapons recommendable to purchase prior 5th slot: - 2x Orkans - Gareth (if you want to do beacon capping and engage in heavier fight as well) - Galahad (if you're tired of getting your Leo or Griffin brawler beaten)
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Post by Paps on May 22, 2017 6:24:26 GMT -5
My answer to your question is actually another question, snk. How common are 4 slot hangars in your League? I'm only Diamond 3 on Android and 4 mech heroes are rare as frog-fur in virtually all the matches I play. Of course, iOS might have vastly superior players leading to fewer wasting resources on a 5th hangar slot. I wouldn't know.
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Post by snk on May 22, 2017 6:45:56 GMT -5
My answer to your question is actually another question, snk . How common are 4 slot hangars in your League? I'm only Diamond 3 on Android and 4 mech heroes are rare as frog-fur in virtually all the matches I play. Of course, iOS might have vastly superior players leading to fewer wasting resources on a 5th hangar slot. I wouldn't know. Not many player or none without 5 slot in my league. But come on, by the time you reach diamond/expert/master you have probably earn 20k - 30k Au. Buying 2 x Orkans and a Galahad or Gareth before 5th slot will only delay the 5th slot by 1-2 months, and you don't really need 5th slot in lower league. You can ignore the fact there are many 4 slot player has higher league point than 5 slot player (spend more Au), you can also said lower league point players is better just because they have 5th slot. ?You can say whatever you want. But they don't make sense. People with more league point = people help his team win more + more damage done. 5th slot is just one of the route assisted us to higher league, so are good weapons and good bots. What you gona do after you purchase 5th slot? Put a crap temporary bots until you save more Au for better weapons and bot then upgrade them from stock level. What I gona do after I purchase Au weapons and bots after 4th slot? Upgrade them asap. By the time you purchase your first Au weapon or bots, I will purchase 5th slot. The difference? You have stock level Au weapons and bots. I have high level of Au weapons and bots. Think twice before you said go all the way to 5th slot.
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Post by Paps on May 22, 2017 6:55:45 GMT -5
I'm pretty much done going back and forth with you over this, snk. You're welcome to your opinion. I'll maintain mine.
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Post by CharismaticReaper99 on May 22, 2017 7:03:24 GMT -5
Simply put, get that 5th slot if, and only if, you feel that you have purchased any gold weapons/bots/potatoes that you wanted prior to 5th slot.
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Post by wildboar on May 22, 2017 7:29:41 GMT -5
.... are rare as frog-fur .... not heard that one before ...like it a useful alternative to as rare as ... Hens teeth or Rocking horse poo
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Post by Pilot Moby_dic on May 22, 2017 7:31:49 GMT -5
But that's the exception, not the rule. Just had it happen again tonight: Two of our team with 4-bot hangars 'meched out early, and it cost us the match. Get the 5th slot. Can't be said enough. Galahad will last 2 times longer or more than PDB Griffin in lower league, when there aren't many Tridents Fury or just low level RBD Griffin, there aren't even Orkans if everyone go for 5th slot first. I believe PDB Griffin is already the best bot they got if they go Taran and Magnum (WSP) and 5th slot (Au) first. 5 slot won't mech out is totally not true, 5 12/12 Ancilelot will mech out faster than 1 6/6 homing missiles Griffin. League rating is more accurate way to judge a player performance. If a 3 or 4 slot player has higher league rating than those 5 slot player? The higher league rating player simply a better player. Higher League rating = win more match + done more damage 5th bot always the weakest bot, they won't last long. 4 bots hanger only need to survive 30 seconds per bots more to stay for the whole match. "5 12/12 Ancilelot will mech out faster than 1 6/6 homing missiles Griffin". What sort of glue you sniffing lol
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Post by arakos on May 22, 2017 7:36:37 GMT -5
Read this advice in another new player thread and thought it held a lot of wisdom. Instead of prioritizing that 5th slot, you should get 9/9 bots in your first 3 hangers first. I think this actually makes more sense for players in bronze/silver. Botting out isn't bad in bronze. Just start a new game. Only upgrading 3 slots lets you focus your resources and allows new players to attain the ability to be competitive much quicker. Asides from tanking, the main problem I face as a new player is the high level weapons used by veterans. So if I concentrate all my resources into 1 bot at a time, I can quickly level them up to a playable state. Instead of being shuttled to the side to do support work or capping beacons and just running away. It's not like a new player will actually move up the ranks if they have 5 slots in silver. It just means they won't bot out as easily. But what does that matter unless you're focusing on survival and capping beacons. If you want to have fight fighting, you need to have the muscle. If played well, your 1 good bot can survive the whole match. So the real consideration is balancing what you want. Do you want to stay alive and have 4-5 under leveled bots that barely do damage? Or do you want 2-3 good bots that can fight as well as your enemies? I'm confused. Let me ask you a question: would you rather have three 9/9 bots than five 8/8 bots?
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Post by snk on May 22, 2017 7:54:46 GMT -5
Galahad will last 2 times longer or more than PDB Griffin in lower league, when there aren't many Tridents Fury or just low level RBD Griffin, there aren't even Orkans if everyone go for 5th slot first. I believe PDB Griffin is already the best bot they got if they go Taran and Magnum (WSP) and 5th slot (Au) first. 5 slot won't mech out is totally not true, 5 12/12 Ancilelot will mech out faster than 1 6/6 homing missiles Griffin. League rating is more accurate way to judge a player performance. If a 3 or 4 slot player has higher league rating than those 5 slot player? The higher league rating player simply a better player. Higher League rating = win more match + done more damage 5th bot always the weakest bot, they won't last long. 4 bots hanger only need to survive 30 seconds per bots more to stay for the whole match. "5 12/12 Ancilelot will mech out faster than 1 6/6 homing missiles Griffin". What sort of glue you sniffing lol When the Griffin behind Lancelot and even an object for whole 10 minutes, I don't see why the Griffin will die first. You probably never see some sniper last the whole match or until he destroys it himself in the last few minutes. If you don't check what bots your teammates is using, that fine. By the way, even my Tridents Carnage sometimes can last the whole match if I didn't ditch it for another bot. If you think it's impossible, then you might want check some videos on YouTube. It is ok to learn from others. ?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 8:11:12 GMT -5
The difference is that 5x 12/12 Ancile Lancelots will actually prove to be a valuable asset to the team unlike a Hydra Spiral Griffin. And your comment about Ancile Lancelots meching out faster than Hydra Spiral Griffins is very incorrect. Each Ancile Lancelot can last anywhere to 2-5 minutes. But a Hydra Spiral Griffin's lifespan is very short. Anything shooting homing missiles across the map tends to attract lots of attention from shield bots and Trebs. in that case, a level 6 Griffin will not last long.
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Post by snk on May 22, 2017 8:21:46 GMT -5
The difference is that 5x 12/12 Ancile Lancelots will actually prove to be a valuable asset to the team unlike a Hydra Spiral Griffin. And your comment about Ancile Lancelots meching out faster than Hydra Spiral Griffins is very incorrect. Each Ancile Lancelot can last anywhere to 2-5 minutes. But a Hydra Spiral Griffin's lifespan is very short. Anything shooting homing missiles across the map tends to attract lots of attention from shield bots and Trebs. in that case, a level 6 Griffin will not last long. Yes, Ancilelot is much valuable to the team but they fight in the front, which lead them almost die before Trebs and Hydra bot. Trebs has longer range to shoot Hyra bot, but the Hydra can always hide behind a building. Every bots can reach and kill Hydra bots behind a building, if the Hydra bot doesn't have any teammates brawler and mid range in front of him. Which also mean he will be the last guy mech out. What I am saying is, be the last guy on the field means nothing and not equal to better player. what have you done and contribute to the team is more important.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 8:25:25 GMT -5
That's not how it works. Usually, the Hydra spammer gets chased down by Galahads and Ancile Lancelots rendering their missiles almost useless. Only situation where a Hydra Spiral Griffin would last the entire game is on the roof of Shenzen.
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Post by snk on May 22, 2017 8:30:54 GMT -5
That's not how it works. Usually, the Hydra spammer gets chased down by Galahads and Ancile Lancelots rendering their missiles almost useless. Only situation where a Hydra Spiral Griffin would last the entire game is on the roof of Shenzen. I believe you will kill DB Griffin, any type of Fury or even almost any other more threatening bots before Hydra Griffin if you are in group fights. Eg, a Hydra Griffin shooting his missile from spawn point in dead city, will he be the last guy taken out? Most likely What I am saying is, be the last guy on the field means nothing and not equal to better player. what have you done and contribute to the team is more important then being the last bot on the field.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 8:36:00 GMT -5
He will be the guy that allows his team to get spawn-raided, thus being the first to get taken out.
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Post by snk on May 22, 2017 8:41:03 GMT -5
He will be the guy that allows his team to get spawn-raided, thus being the first to get taken out. This will only happen when 3 or more people mech out, or it is a very unbalanced game. So the chicken guys always die last.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 8:43:40 GMT -5
Are you speaking from experience or just by assumption? Whenever i play my Hydra Spiral Griffin, I never last more than 5 minutes even on the roof of Shanzen.
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Post by snk on May 22, 2017 8:50:02 GMT -5
Are you speaking from experience or just by assumption? Whenever i play my Hydra Spiral Griffin, I never last more than 5 minutes even on the roof of Shanzen. I have 1 Hydra but never used it. But I noticed a lot times Hydra Griffin and Trebs just don't die or ditch their bot in my team when we need beacons in last 2 mins of the game.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 8:51:41 GMT -5
Doesn't mean that they can last the entire game or longer than 5x Ancile Lancelots.
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Post by snk on May 22, 2017 8:53:37 GMT -5
Doesn't mean that they can last the entire game or longer than 5x Ancile Lancelots. Probably the chicken Hydra will last longer than a brave Lancelot.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 8:57:49 GMT -5
It all depends on the situation and the map, but 5x Ancile Lancelots will last longer than a Hydra Spiral Griffin.
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Post by Scuzzbopper on May 22, 2017 9:02:32 GMT -5
I guess it comes down to what you value. Do you value playing a single bot all game long? This tactic for a beacon runner is valid IMHO, as you are flipping beacons which could very well lead to Blue victory. The flaw with this strategy is your fellow teammates are brawling and they may mech-out, leaving you alone taking on superior numbers. Even if you had a Ancile Lancelot in hanger that isn't going to last long against 3-4 bots. Bragging about sitting back in a Spydra Griff doesn't get you a lot of points around here, because the veterans know the truth: You need to drop every bot. Not just for yourself (You'll rack up more damage) but for your team. And it's the team that wins the match in the regular pool.
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Post by snk on May 22, 2017 9:07:18 GMT -5
It all depends on the situation and the map, but 5x Ancile Lancelots will last longer than a Hydra Spiral Griffin. Whatever the result, my main point is: I have seen someone blamed the 4 slot guy who done 800k damage, kill 9 bots but mech out in last 2 mins. The 5 slot guys done 380k damage last the whole match. If I am the 5 slot guy, I will blamed myself instead pointing to another guy. There is a bad habit in this forums, if they lose a match, it is always the 4 slot guy faults.
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Post by Scuzzbopper on May 22, 2017 9:22:11 GMT -5
It all depends on the situation and the map, but 5x Ancile Lancelots will last longer than a Hydra Spiral Griffin. Whatever the result, my main point is: I have seen someone blamed the 4 slot guy who done 800k damage, kill 9 bots but mech out in last 2 mins. The 5 slot guys done 380k damage last the whole match. If I am the 5 slot guy, I will blamed myself instead pointing to another guy. There is a bad habit in this forums, if they lose a match, it is always the 4 slot guy faults. A It's a matter of comparing the total hanger strength. It's all well and good if Blue and Red both have roughly the same hanger depth and play it out. I think the forum veterans want to emphases that in the long term it is better for a player to invest in the 5th slot earlier rather than later. As a culture this forum has some very direct values about playing this game. Some of them may seem harsh but they are cultivated over years of playing and rolling with all the changes to the game. Even the name of the game changed during that time. Play how want is often the last statement made, but realize if you voice your opinion in a public forum about something you will get feedback about that opinion.
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Post by snk on May 22, 2017 9:45:34 GMT -5
Whatever the result, my main point is: I have seen someone blamed the 4 slot guy who done 800k damage, kill 9 bots but mech out in last 2 mins. The 5 slot guys done 380k damage last the whole match. If I am the 5 slot guy, I will blamed myself instead pointing to another guy. There is a bad habit in this forums, if they lose a match, it is always the 4 slot guy faults. A It's a matter of comparing the total hanger strength. It's all well and good if Blue and Red both have roughly the same hanger depth and play it out. I think the forum veterans want to emphases that in the long term it is better for a player to invest in the 5th slot earlier rather than later. As a culture this forum has some very direct values about playing this game. Some of them may seem harsh but they are cultivated over years of playing and rolling with all the changes to the game. Even the name of the game changed during that time. Play how want is often the last statement made, but realize if you voice your opinion in a public forum about something you will get feedback about that opinion. I like to hear others opinions, even for my own hanger. All opinions are valuable to me. However, many people think they are better players if they got 5 slot. Honestly, I will take a 4 slot Diamond player as my teammates instead 5 slot silver or gold teammates. Very simple, a guy in Diamond just performed better than those in silver or gold, regardless how many slot they have.
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