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Post by Strayed on Apr 22, 2017 3:39:16 GMT -5
First of all, start buffing their speed, not up to the 60s, but into the 70s and 80s, and maybe even into the 90s. Keep the gareth at current speed though or at most in the high 60s. It's already viable. Keep the stalker in the low 70s too, it already has stealth. This will make light bots much harder to hit once they get into close combat and also makes them harder to control, which means that they will need more skill to control effectively. In exchange for this, make the starting bot the patton. Maybe increase turning speed as well.
Remove the tap dancing mechanic as well, not only is it annoying as all hell, but it severely limits mobility, which is the major selling point of light bots.
Next, decrease the velocity of all long range cannons and add in bullet drop for them but buff their damage. This will make them require more leading to use and thus more skill, but they will also become more viable in a competitive scenario without making them overly easy to use. This will both indirectly nerf and buff light bots. On one hand, their direct counters are now more difficult to use, but those counters are now more effective if used properly.
After that, eliminate auto aim and make it so that aim is nearly completely manual. You can now aim in a completely 3d direction instead of 2d. Your weapons will still kinda auto aim if you can get them to point directly at the target, but now, pointing directly at the target is more difficult. If you want to know how this will effect light bots, look up a video of oddjob in Goldeneye64. This will also make being a smaller target more viable. This will also make stalker at least somewhat less annoying.
Increase plasma range to 400m, this will provide a counter to light bots as you will now need a counter to rocketry hit and runners.
Shorten short range rocketry range to 150-200m but increase the velocity. This will make them undodgeable once you get close, but will make them require more skill to use as you now have to get within that range.
Decrease velocity of midrange splash, they now require more leading in order to use now and you can dodge them if you're good enough.
Make it so that shield mode in the Galahad and the Gareth reduce turning speed significantly, this will make them harder to use so that they can't just shield up and win instantly in close combat. The lancelot should be fine as its turning speed is already slow and it's weapons are spaced out quite a bit, meaning that its accuracy will suffer once it gets into close range with the new aiming mechanics.
I don't really see a reason to change the Rhino, but that's probably Rhino user bias here. Please tell if anything on the Rhino needs to be changed.
And finally, add in spotting mechanics like in world of tanks. You can only lock on to someone or know if someone's there unless you either have direct line of sight or are within 100m of them. This will make long range bots useful as they can act as spotters and will make light bots useful as scouts in close in maps. This will also make bots that depend on ambushes more useful as they can now effectively setup ambushes without someone knowing that they're there or that they're a carnage. This will also force players to be more methodical in their approach as they now have to anticipate where their enemy is hiding or send out scouts.
I think that this will make the game more interesting in general as it will require more skill in order to play well, but it may also make the game too hardcore to draw in a large audience, especially considering that we're talking about the mobile platform here.
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Post by Paps on Apr 22, 2017 5:55:18 GMT -5
I like every point brought up. Especially the last one. Phone game. Can't really make it over-complicated, or it'd be wonky.
I'm looking forward to the new upcoming Mechwarrior title specifically because I like the complexity aspect of those games. Just don't think it translates well to mobile.
Sorry to be a Debby Downer. I'm sure lots of y'all will disagree with me. Just volunteering my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 6:47:31 GMT -5
I think this is another case of arm chair QB, and the cure is worst than the disease. I like that this game is noob friendly and requires little skill. It allows me to focus on what's the fun part, which is strategy. Hugely important, and the big picture is more rewarding to be a Caesar rather than a grunt. This is the only game that makes it clear to me why flanking is important whilst all other so called strategy games did not.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 10:41:30 GMT -5
I just think heavies need a speed nerf. Not as severe as they were when they were first started, but a moderate one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 10:58:33 GMT -5
Not liking the ideas.
1. Takes away from the tech and any realism of the game.
2. Totally changes the game
3. Would ruin the game
4. PIX would screw it up big time
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 10:59:27 GMT -5
People that want nerfs should be nerfed  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 11:06:59 GMT -5
Lights don't need a buff. Think of lights as the intro class to the game. Useful for a short time, then expendable.
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DAKKA
Destrier
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Pilot name: DAKKA
Platform: Android
Clan: [RVЁM]
League: Silver
Favorite robot: Gareth
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Post by DAKKA on Apr 22, 2017 11:16:10 GMT -5
I think this is another case of arm chair QB, and the cure is worst than the disease. I like that this game is noob friendly and requires little skill. It allows me to focus on what's the fun part, which is strategy. Hugely important, and the big picture is more rewarding to be a Caesar rather than a grunt. This is the only game that makes it clear to me why flanking is important whilst all other so called strategy games did not. QFT |
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Post by War Child on Apr 22, 2017 11:29:08 GMT -5
Actually this is quite possible,note that WoT became mobile,so I don't see this as far off as others does.And my phone can quite handle blocky cars,so yeah,I'm fine with this.I'm just ok with the manual aim because War Robots is kinda slow even with lights traveling at 70+ speeds.But even still I miss because of the sensitivity and there's no option in to config the controls.
You might need to double or triple the speed of rocket artillery as well Strayed.Give the natasha and fury ability to see the whole map from above but like WoT,you need scouts for you to see the reds.
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Post by The VVatcher on Apr 22, 2017 14:40:21 GMT -5
In my opinion the main problem with lightweights are the laughable damage output, except for Garreth.
I don't think it's a good idea to change game mechanics just to buff a few robots. Especially one that is designed to make it frustrating to shoot them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 15:06:39 GMT -5
I can do a Mag, pinata, or aphid Gep, just need more health.
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Post by mijapi300 on Apr 22, 2017 15:22:32 GMT -5
The only thing I like about your suggestions is the not being able to spot or identify bots before you even see them. Perhaps an easy fix would be removing Ancile bars or even Ancile and hp bars from enemy robots. Or that information only available after lock-on, and don't allow lock-on without a direct line of sight.
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Post by tectonic on Apr 22, 2017 16:21:22 GMT -5
But, but, but an 80kph destrier would be boss! Might even buy a cheep skin for it. Not that tron skil though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 18:04:36 GMT -5
The MM is pretty much the number 1 spot for why light bots aren't viable, but I must digress.
Light bots lost leeway during the medium and heavy speed increase, and the speed distribution changes.
Light bots aren't bad, heavy bots lost their main drawback: needing a year and a day to get into position.
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Post by Strayed on Apr 22, 2017 20:31:57 GMT -5
I think this is another case of arm chair QB, and the cure is worst than the disease. I like that this game is noob friendly and requires little skill. It allows me to focus on what's the fun part, which is strategy. Hugely important, and the big picture is more rewarding to be a Caesar rather than a grunt. This is the only game that makes it clear to me why flanking is important whilst all other so called strategy games did not. Well, I also proposed the long range changes and the spotting changes to improve strategy as well. Currently, there is no high quality interaction and teamwork between separate bot classes.The long range changes will make long range bots more useful in the grand scheme of things as they now do more damage and can spot bots for the entire team, while not being voerpowered as they're now sognificantly more difficult to play. |
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Post by Strayed on Apr 22, 2017 20:37:41 GMT -5
The MM is pretty much the number 1 spot for why light bots aren't viable, but I must digress. Light bots lost leeway during the medium and heavy speed increase, and the speed distribution changes. Light bots aren't bad, heavy bots lost their main drawback: needing a year and a day to get into position. This is my biggest problem, instead of being WW2 heavy bots they're modern era MBTs. They're too multirole, to the point where we had to buff the rog, a medium bot, to make it have both heavy level health and light level firepower for it to be viable again. And even then, it's still not in the meta. We need to stop deluding ourselves into thinking that having no nerfs is a good thing, they're a normal part of every multiplayer game's lifecycle, why can't they be that for War Robots? Heavy bots need to be nerfed if we want lights and mediums to be viable again. Either that or we need a drastic gameplay change. |
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Post by War Child on Apr 22, 2017 20:44:08 GMT -5
The dash bots,reduce their HP and downgrade their weapons from mediums to lights,and label them as light bots(in their current state at test server)and vuala!,we have what you wished for!.except mk3,he's too big for that.
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Post by Strayed on Apr 22, 2017 20:44:33 GMT -5
In my opinion the main problem with lightweights are the laughable damage output, except for Garreth. I don't think it's a good idea to change game mechanics just to buff a few robots. Especially one that is designed to make it frustrating to shoot them. They'll only be frustrating to shoot at if you let them close into extreme cqc, which is why I proposed reduction(and increase in velocity) in range of rocketry and increase in range of plasma. We'll probably need a buff for mediums if this comes into play though. Anyways, one of the problems with the game is that firepower is everything, absolutely everything, which is another reason why heavies are to so prevalent. We need to make other stats worthwhile if we want to see more non-heavy bots on the field. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 21:02:24 GMT -5
Or, we could nerf all the common weapons and bots. That's also how you will get slower paced gameplays and a more diverse variety of bots.
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Post by 7iquid on Apr 23, 2017 1:13:41 GMT -5
I think it's important that light bots are relatively fast and vulnerable. This is what makes them into useful beacon cappers - they are not really designed for heavy combat. if you want to change small bots into proper combat bots then they will basically become medium bots!
My Gareth is Level 9 with Level 10 Tarzan and 9 magnum. It can cap a beacon really quick and then lay down fire until my medium bot teamworks arrive to defend the beacon. Despite my shield the Gareth isn't designed to engage the enemy in heavy fire. It gets quashed by double Tarzan griffIns and thunder Leo's. it makes sense really and forces me to vary my hanger and strategy which makes the game more interesting. I'm at gold/diamond 3.
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Post by Strayed on Apr 23, 2017 2:06:46 GMT -5
"Not liking idea. Light bots are light bots for a reason......
Just as medium bots serve a purpose, heavy bots serve a purpose.
you can't make all bots same or what's the point.....if you want to compete with larger bots / different class, then get one of those?"
Actually, light bots and medium bots don't fill a purpose. Why? Because right now, heavy bots, the carnage, and the galahad can fill all purposes that the other bots can. Need a tank? Pull a shield bot. Need a beacon capper? Pull a Rhino, Galahad, Griffin, or Carnage. Need a flanker? Pull a Rhino, Galahad, Carnage, or Lancelot. What I'm trying to propose here, is that we make light bots even more like light bots by giving them a speed advantage, and then modifying the mechanics so that that speed advantage actually does something.
The idea of heavy bots being better than light bots would work... if we still had a gear based mm that is. Back then, you could use a light bot and play against other light bots.
Now we don't have a gear based mm, and you're gonna fight the same kind of people no matter what your hangar is. So, because of this, only about six bots are usable in the higher leagues right now. There's 24 bots in the entire game.
"I think it's important that light bots are relatively fast and vulnerable. This is what makes them into useful beacon cappers - they are not really designed for heavy combat."
Quite frankly, how will the changes I proposed make them into medium bots? I'm basically saying, make them faster and change aiming mechanics to make them harder to hit. And in addition to that, make long range and plasma stronger so that they have counters, and make rockets a bit weaker so that they can't as easily hit and run. And furthermore, put in spotting mechanics so that they have a specific role as well.
And not to mention, heavy bots like the griffin and rhino fulfill the beacon capping role better than lights because they can actually take a hit.
I'm not proposing that we make all bots the same, I'm proposing that we at least make an attempt to make all bots viable, which is completely different from making all bots the same.
I've played heavy bots for two years in this game because light and medium bots have constantly been neglected. The Carnage and Galahad are the only two viable mediums, and even then, people are saying that they aren't a part of the "main" meta anymore.
Face it or not, either lights need a buff, or heavies need a nerf.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 2:09:35 GMT -5
Lite bots are great and work for getting beacons. I ran them tonight, and had 2 in my line up. Grabbed a ton of beacons, won some games. I think of these like calvary. They hit hard and fast. Use them for flanking and for getting to the rear of the enemy camp and causing mayhem. My best run was assassination mission and taking down a Fury and Griffin wif my Stalker.
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Post by Strayed on Apr 23, 2017 2:17:59 GMT -5
Lite bots are great and work for getting beacons. I ran them tonight, and had 2 in my line up. Grabbed a ton of beacons, won some games. I think of these like calvary. They hit hard and fast. Use them for flanking and for getting to the rear of the enemy camp and causing mayhem. My best run was assassination mission and taking down a Fury and Griffin wif my Stalker. What league are you running in? As soon as you get up to around bot level 7-9, light bots become completely useless, except for maybe the gareth and the stalker in some situations. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 2:34:55 GMT -5
Lite bots are great and work for getting beacons. I ran them tonight, and had 2 in my line up. Grabbed a ton of beacons, won some games. I think of these like calvary. They hit hard and fast. Use them for flanking and for getting to the rear of the enemy camp and causing mayhem. My best run was assassination mission and taking down a Fury and Griffin wif my Stalker. What league are you running in? As soon as you get up to around bot level 7-9, light bots become completely useless, except for maybe the gareth and the stalker in some situations. I'm in expert, but i got some masters and champions in my games tonight. I actually win a bit more with lights in my hanger. I found them very useful in the games I won tonight. Flanking, getting beacons, assassination, distraction, etc. Tonight, i discovered a great spot for flanking so I kept hitting at their flanks and killing them. I wouldn't attempt this with another slower bot since it's too slow. The hit-and-run tactics make it successful and annoying. |
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Post by Strayed on Apr 23, 2017 2:35:58 GMT -5
Nice, so you're mostly using the Gareth and Stalker?
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Post by The VVatcher on Apr 23, 2017 2:42:20 GMT -5
I dunno, I think would rather see a bulk improvement to midweights first. Lightweights other than Garreth practically needs an overhaul. They need extra weapon slots equivalent of 3 light hardpoints. Midweights are right there with firepower but needs work in other departments. Far simple to improve them than lightweights.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 2:49:57 GMT -5
I only have Stalkers on this account. I did a detailed write-up comparing the Stalker and Gareth, at least theoretically. I'd like to buy a Gareth on the same account, but I don't see how it can compete. I'm also fairly new at driving the Stalker at this level, so I am still discovering new things.
I had one bad run with it, trying to bait a DB Griffin to fire. I didn't know there was an Aphid Patton, and he got me as I was switching directions. At least I dodged the DB. I was hoping to save my stealth to take down a Galahad.
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Post by hyderier on Apr 23, 2017 5:29:54 GMT -5
I just think heavies need a speed nerf. Not as severe as they were when they were first started, but a moderate one. No! They're slow enough as is. Any change which hurts playability is bad, and making heavies slower would do that. My proposals would be - optionally +5 speed buffs on Gepard, Shutze and Destrier, +3 on Cossack - making Spiral and Hydra lag just a little, so they would usually miss a light bot going at full speed - increasing spread of Aphids, so a few will miss even a stationary small bot - change the maps to add tunnels where only light bots fit, shortcuts through buildings and rocks, and just dead ends as hiding places, into which heavy bots can't easily even shoot |
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Post by 7iquid on Apr 23, 2017 9:18:46 GMT -5
Strayed - Medium bots play a role in the game meta - so if the light bots were nerfed as you say they might take over the mid game "defend beacons capture others" role which is important in diamond 3. I'm only speaking from my experience and I quite like the existing feeling of accomplishment I get from taking out a plasma griffin with a lightweight (but more agile) Gareth!
It's not to say your ideas should be rejected out of hand tho - what about a skills tree for bots so you perhaps choose from increased speed bots, more armour firepower. I.e. Individual bot development so you have a specialist hangar?
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Post by zer00eyz on Apr 23, 2017 10:48:16 GMT -5
Is your idea wrong... probably not, but why are you trying to keep everything in one bucket.
Would three leagues serve us better: lights only, light/medium and unlimited.
Three separate scores wouldn't be that much harder to track, pix has already shown that having two queues is possible, why not 4 (or 5 add protected rookie queue)?
It would make balancing the lights up to the Gareth a lot easier, and give a place to almost every bot in the game.
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