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Post by CarlosDanger on May 30, 2020 14:17:26 GMT -5
I hope I didn’t waste my time on this if someone already did it.
being back after a long hiatus I did some math on upgrade efficiency for Titan weapons and modules. Specifically I’m trying to gear up a Ming with gendarme/cuirasses weapons.
An Antimatter reactor costs 1080 platinum to max fully giving you a 27% damage boost.
To equal that:
A gendarme must reach level 13 for a cost of 488 platinum x2 totaling 976 Platinum A cuirasses must reach level 15 for a cost of 394 platinum x2 totaling 788 Platinum
Total cost to upgrade weapons to 27% damage boost is 1764. Or 686 platinum more expensive. 486 if you include the cost of the reactor.
Lesson learned: buy antimatter reactors and max them before upgrading any weapons even once.
Cheers folks!
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Post by Garbage game on May 30, 2020 14:40:09 GMT -5
I hope I didn’t waste my time on this if someone already did it. being back after a long hiatus I did some math on upgrade efficiency for Titan weapons and modules. Specifically I’m trying to gear up a Ming with gendarme/cuirasses weapons. An Antimatter reactor costs 1080 platinum to max fully giving you a 27% damage boost. To equal that: A gendarme must reach level 13 for a cost of 488 platinum x2 totaling 976 Platinum A cuirasses must reach level 15 for a cost of 394 platinum x2 totaling 788 Platinum Total cost to upgrade weapons to 27% damage boost is 1764. Or 686 platinum more expensive. 486 if you include the cost of the reactor. Lesson learned: buy antimatter reactors and max them before upgrading any weapons even once. Cheers folks! Leveling Titan weapons increase their DR bypass tho
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Post by bayscout on May 30, 2020 14:53:53 GMT -5
I hope I didn’t waste my time on this if someone already did it. being back after a long hiatus I did some math on upgrade efficiency for Titan weapons and modules. Specifically I’m trying to gear up a Ming with gendarme/cuirasses weapons. An Antimatter reactor costs 1080 platinum to max fully giving you a 27% damage boost. To equal that: A gendarme must reach level 13 for a cost of 488 platinum x2 totaling 976 Platinum A cuirasses must reach level 15 for a cost of 394 platinum x2 totaling 788 Platinum Total cost to upgrade weapons to 27% damage boost is 1764. Or 686 platinum more expensive. 486 if you include the cost of the reactor. Lesson learned: buy antimatter reactors and max them before upgrading any weapons even once. Cheers folks! The big part of this that you're missing is that a 27% increase of a very weak weapon results in a slightly less weak weapon. Totally makes more sense to get base stats of weapons up first, then work on boosting damage with modules.
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Post by Luk on May 30, 2020 14:54:45 GMT -5
I think its best to go with the balanced approach. I didnt do any math but looking at the stats and cost, Im doing sth like this:
1. All weapons to lvl 2 (you get 2% mitgation plus dmg for only 20 platinium)
2. Antimater reactors to 16 lvl and +18% dmg
3. Weapons to 15 lvl, alpha gets 90% DR mitgation
4, Max Antimater
5 Max weapons
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Post by CarlosDanger on May 30, 2020 17:23:34 GMT -5
I think its best to go with the balanced approach. I didnt do any math but looking at the stats and cost, Im doing sth like this: 1. All weapons to lvl 2 (you get 2% mitgation plus dmg for only 20 platinium) 2. Antimater reactors to 16 lvl and +18% dmg 3. Weapons to 15 lvl, alpha gets 90% DR mitgation 4, Max Antimater 5 Max weapons Ahhhhhhh... resistance mitigation.... true true!
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Post by AVC on Jun 1, 2020 8:00:40 GMT -5
The higher the weapons level, the more durability it has too.
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Zavratatar
GI. Patton
Posts: 148
Karma: 218
Pilot name: Zavratatar
Platform: iOS
Clan: иυκε
League: Champion
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Strider
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Post by Zavratatar on Jun 1, 2020 8:05:30 GMT -5
Where'd you get that info? I've never seen numbers on that.
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Post by Munki on Jun 1, 2020 16:12:16 GMT -5
The higher the weapons level, the more durability it has too. What do you mean by weapon durability? Like how likely a weapon will fall off a bot when getting low on HP?
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Post by AVC on Jun 2, 2020 1:34:23 GMT -5
The higher the weapons level, the more durability it has too. What do you mean by weapon durability? Like how likely a weapon will fall off a bot when getting low on HP? Yes. You'll find that unlevelled weapons will get blown off before a levelled weapon. I run a T-Falc with Tridents on the outer rails. They are L1 and I lose them all the time. The centre wep is a Max Mk2 Avenger. I've never lost it once. Not sure what the maths is, and there's no actual data on it in the wiki.
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Post by ironstar on Jun 2, 2020 2:59:02 GMT -5
What do you mean by weapon durability? Like how likely a weapon will fall off a bot when getting low on HP? Yes. You'll find that unlevelled weapons will get blown off before a levelled weapon. I run a T-Falc with Tridents on the outer rails. They are L1 and I lose them all the time. The centre wep is a Max Mk2 Avenger. I've never lost it once. Not sure what the maths is, and there's no actual data on it in the wiki. That's not related to the level of your main weapon, but because it is not possible for you T-falcon to lose its main weapon.
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Post by AVC on Jun 2, 2020 6:00:06 GMT -5
Yes. You'll find that unlevelled weapons will get blown off before a levelled weapon. I run a T-Falc with Tridents on the outer rails. They are L1 and I lose them all the time. The centre wep is a Max Mk2 Avenger. I've never lost it once. Not sure what the maths is, and there's no actual data on it in the wiki. That's not related to the level of your main weapon, but because it is not possible for you T-falcon to lose its main weapon. Goes for my Noodle too. I upgrade the top mounts because they aren't blocked when firing from cover, side mounts are unlvelled. Sides always go first.
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Post by Munki on Jun 2, 2020 8:18:44 GMT -5
Interesting theory. Way back when I ran a Mercury, my Heavy weapon would always get blown off first. I think the light weapons I was using were at a higher level so this very well could be true. If so, ensure that the big guns have the highest level and to not evenly level weapons of the same type so one lower level one can be the sacrificial limb.
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Zavratatar
GI. Patton
Posts: 148
Karma: 218
Pilot name: Zavratatar
Platform: iOS
Clan: иυκε
League: Champion
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Strider
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Post by Zavratatar on Jun 2, 2020 8:33:09 GMT -5
Ares seems able to lose all its weapons to a stiff breeze. Be interesting to know if anyone has done any extended testing on this.
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Post by CarlosDanger on Jun 2, 2020 8:37:02 GMT -5
Where'd you get that info? I've never seen numbers on that. War robots wiki
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Post by CarlosDanger on Jun 2, 2020 8:43:55 GMT -5
Titan weapons start out with 75% resistance mitigation. At level 13/15 there is an additional 13%. Not all bots have resistance and it’s usually temporary. I stand by my OP. It’s cost effective to upgrade damage modules before weapons. Plus the modules are transferable. Decide you want new weapons? Great! Two maxed damage modules starts you out at 52% spdamage bonus and each upgrade will be 52% more effective.
It’s your game do what you want. I’m upgrading my modules first.
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Post by CarlosDanger on Jun 2, 2020 9:21:19 GMT -5
Also, modules don’t get blown off.
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Post by bayscout on Jun 2, 2020 13:55:43 GMT -5
Upgrading modules before weapons may be cost effective from a Pt perspective, but it's clearly a very bad idea for reasons previously stated (25% of 100, or 25% of 1000....I know which one I'll take!).
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Post by CarlosDanger on Jun 2, 2020 16:04:40 GMT -5
Upgrading modules before weapons may be cost effective from a Pt perspective, but it's clearly a very bad idea for reasons previously stated (25% of 100, or 25% of 1000....I know which one I'll take!). Bay It’s more efficient for damage out put too. Once your modules are maxed, every weapon upgrade will be worth 54% more as well. Starting with modules increases your damage output on a steeper curve. Don’t make me break out excel spreadsheets! Please! But hey to each their own. If you are happy with your progress, no one can argue with that! Im shouting!
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Post by bayscout on Jun 2, 2020 16:44:19 GMT -5
Upgrading modules before weapons may be cost effective from a Pt perspective, but it's clearly a very bad idea for reasons previously stated (25% of 100, or 25% of 1000....I know which one I'll take!). Bay It’s more efficient for damage out put too. Once your modules are maxed, every weapon upgrade will be worth 54% more as well. Starting with modules increases your damage output on a steeper curve. Don’t make me break out excel spreadsheets! Please! But hey to each their own. If you are happy with your progress, no one can argue with that! Im shouting! I get your point, but you give up lots of potential damage early on by significantly delaying large amounts of damage output. I need the damage/silver now!
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Post by CarlosDanger on Jun 2, 2020 19:36:23 GMT -5
Bay It’s more efficient for damage out put too. Once your modules are maxed, every weapon upgrade will be worth 54% more as well. Starting with modules increases your damage output on a steeper curve. Don’t make me break out excel spreadsheets! Please! But hey to each their own. If you are happy with your progress, no one can argue with that! Im shouting! I get your point, but you give up lots of potential damage early on by significantly delaying large amounts of damage output. I need the damage/silver now! No. The whole point is that you increase damage FASTER. That’s it, I’m posting a spreadsheet...
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Post by CarlosDanger on Jun 2, 2020 21:12:49 GMT -5
Bay It’s more efficient for damage out put too. Once your modules are maxed, every weapon upgrade will be worth 54% more as well. Starting with modules increases your damage output on a steeper curve. Don’t make me break out excel spreadsheets! Please! But hey to each their own. If you are happy with your progress, no one can argue with that! Im shouting! I get your point, but you give up lots of potential damage early on by significantly delaying large amounts of damage output. I need the damage/silver now! Ok... so... we are both wrong AND you are right about resistance mitigation. So I did a total spread sheet on weapon upgrades vs module upgrades. They are statistically almost identical when adding something I left out in the first run: the 3% bonus from level 1 modules if you upgrade weapons first. So now I’m left with a choice, an 8% bonus in resistance mitigation OR the utility of transferring modules... Both have reasonable arguments in their favor. For me, seeing as how I have yet to maximize a single weapon or bot after three years. I’m going for utility. I have to go the route of resource management.
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Post by vonpaulus on Jun 4, 2020 4:18:30 GMT -5
You are not thinking about the incremental costs, and they are what is important.
I’m upgrading an Arthur so my math is based on 1 Alpha and 2 Betas, and the math with change for Kids, Ao Mings and Nodens. So keep that in mind.
Each upgrade on the reactor gives you +1% on three weapons systems for a net +3% increase in firepower. Each upgrade on a weapon gives you, roughly, +2% firepower and increased ability to overcome resistance, although it seems to be significant only for Alpha weapons as far as I can work it out.
Each upgrade progressively costs you extra platinum. Going from level 1 to 2 costs roughly 20 platinum but going from 2 to 3 costs 22 platinum and so forth. So taking a reactor from +25% to +26% costs 70 platinum and gives you +3% increase in firepower. If your guns are down at level 1 you can spend that 70 platinum to upgrade each of your guns once for a net +6% increase in firepower, (i.e. double the bang per platinum than upgrading the reactor at those levels) and still have some loose change to put towards other upgrades later.
For the Arthur my quick estimate of bang per platinum is that I should keep my Alpha weapon at about 1/2 to 2/3s of the level of the reactor and the Betas at 1/3 to 1/2 of the level of the reactor. Then Only look to upgrade the guns above that ratio once I’ve maxed the reactor.
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Post by Old-Cat on Jun 4, 2020 14:25:58 GMT -5
I get your point, but you give up lots of potential damage early on by significantly delaying large amounts of damage output. I need the damage/silver now! Ok... so... we are both wrong AND you are right about resistance mitigation. So I did a total spread sheet on weapon upgrades vs module upgrades. They are statistically almost identical when adding something I left out in the first run: the 3% bonus from level 1 modules if you upgrade weapons first. So now I’m left with a choice, an 8% bonus in resistance mitigation OR the utility of transferring modules... Both have reasonable arguments in their favor. For me, seeing as how I have yet to maximize a single weapon or bot after three years. I’m going for utility. I have to go the route of resource management. Just so you know. 8% of 900 defense point is 72 or over 41 % damage resistance. Get that alpha to 25 if you want to quickly stop bots w damage resistance. I leveled my alpha then started on my modules.
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Post by Deadeye on Jun 4, 2020 15:08:28 GMT -5
Titan weapons start out with 75% resistance mitigation. At level 13/15 there is an additional 13%. Not all bots have resistance and it’s usually temporary. I stand by my OP. It’s cost effective to upgrade damage modules before weapons. Plus the modules are transferable. Decide you want new weapons? Great! Two maxed damage modules starts you out at 52% spdamage bonus and each upgrade will be 52% more effective. It’s your game do what you want. I’m upgrading my modules first. Old-Cat is write to mention the defense points point. Only the Alpha weapons start at 75% and max at 100%. The Betas start at 50% and max at 75% (unless you have a Kid or Nodens which gives extra DM%). Knowing this, you then need to determine what you plan to target with your Titan. If it's other titans, all of them have some level of Defense points and so upgrading weapons will have an exponential effect on how quickly you kill them. If it's regular old Leos and Griffins, well the Module upgrades will be most efficient. However, the higher you go, more and more bots have Defense points and you'll want to DM to be as high as possible. Using the example that Old-cat gave, a Leech has 900 defense points. If you mitigate only 75% of that with a base level Alpha weapon, the Leech still has 225 defense points which means it has a higher damage resistance % than a t-falcon! It comes out to almost 70% DR. Now how effective is that Alpha weapon with 54% more damage? Not as much as you thought it would be, I'm guessing...something to consider. Beta weapons are even worse.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jun 4, 2020 15:16:30 GMT -5
I'm just doing both. I change out weapons a lot (I think I have Mech ADD) but leave the modules in place... so having at least a bit more damage from the get-go is helpful... but I've pretty much decided that any weapon gets to 10 before I let it sit for more module work.
I think I am at the point of drilling down on the Alphas now, though.
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Post by CarlosDanger on Jun 4, 2020 17:22:02 GMT -5
Titan weapons start out with 75% resistance mitigation. At level 13/15 there is an additional 13%. Not all bots have resistance and it’s usually temporary. I stand by my OP. It’s cost effective to upgrade damage modules before weapons. Plus the modules are transferable. Decide you want new weapons? Great! Two maxed damage modules starts you out at 52% spdamage bonus and each upgrade will be 52% more effective. It’s your game do what you want. I’m upgrading my modules first. Old-Cat is write to mention the defense points point. Only the Alpha weapons start at 75% and max at 100%. The Betas start at 50% and max at 75% (unless you have a Kid or Nodens which gives extra DM%). Knowing this, you then need to determine what you plan to target with your Titan. If it's other titans, all of them have some level of Defense points and so upgrading weapons will have an exponential effect on how quickly you kill them. If it's regular old Leos and Griffins, well the Module upgrades will be most efficient. However, the higher you go, more and more bots have Defense points and you'll want to DM to be as high as possible. Using the example that Old-cat gave, a Leech has 900 defense points. If you mitigate only 75% of that with a base level Alpha weapon, the Leech still has 225 defense points which means it has a higher damage resistance % than a t-falcon! It comes out to almost 70% DR. Now how effective is that Alpha weapon with 54% more damage? Not as much as you thought it would be, I'm guessing...something to consider. Beta weapons are even worse. The defense points are taken off the top though. And there is an incredible diminishing return on defense points. Level 1 alpha 75% leaving 225 defense points (69% damage reduction) Level 10 alpha 85% leaving 135 defense points (57% damage reduction) Once the module is upgraded weapons will will then be just 10 levels behind for the rest of the upgrade process. For a trade off of 12% the portability of firepower via modules suits this commander just fine. And this is only if there is 900 defense points. If platinum comes easier to other folks than me, then transferability may not matter as much. Defense Point Table below is credited to war robots wiki: ints Damage Reduction [%] 0 0% 5 4.8% 10 9.1% 15 13% 20 16.7% 25 20% 30 23% 35 25.9% 40 28.6% 45 31% 50 33.3% 55 35.5% 60 37.5% 65 39.4% 70 41.2% 75 42.9% 80 44.4% 85 45.9% 90 47.4% 95 48.7% 100 50% 105 51.2% 110 52.4% 115 53.5% 120 54.5% 125 55.6% 130 56.5% 135 57.4% 140 58.3% 145 59.2% 150 60% 155 60.8% 160 61.5% 165 62.3% 170 63% 175 63.6% 180 64.3% 185 64.9% 190 65.5% 195 66.1% 200 66.7% 205 67.2% 210 67.7% 215 68.3% 220 68.8% 225 69.2% 230 69.7% 235 70.1% 240 70.6% 245 71% 250 71.4% 300 75% 350 77.8% 400 80% 450 81.8% 500 83.3% 600 85.7% 700 87.5% 800 88.9% 900 90%
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Post by snk on Jun 4, 2020 21:04:30 GMT -5
i didn't do the maths, but upgrade weapon help to kill DR bots (all titan has some degree of dr). So I upgrade every 5 level evenly on all weapons and premium dr
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