Racerx7394
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Post by Racerx7394 on Nov 11, 2019 11:09:19 GMT -5
Any of you smart, resourceful players have any idea how War Robots is doing for revenue? I am always curious if the revenue is good or bad. A year ago, I thought the game would be in bad shape by now, but it doesn’t seem that way. Despite all their terrible game strategies, the game is still fun to play most of the time and, on iOS, the wait times are fairly short. Around a year ago they had good deals like $5 Falcons, Striders, etc. and I expected to see more of that. The Operations are packed with resources and I am sure Pix created those to generate money and offset the ridiculous upgrades. I like the Ops. My observations- Games are determined faster. I am seeing more games that are 6 on 3, 6 on 4 within 3 minutes. It seems people stop dropping bots for some reason and the game is over in 4-5 minutes. Maybe a sign the player base is thinning?
- As T34 stated in another thread, the gaps between the top players and the bottom is huge.
- Still seeing ads for $30 weapons and older bots for $40. This seems crazy to me. This must mean people are buying level 1 weapons for $30/$40.
- To buy silver, it’s the same price as it has been for a while. I expected the silver deals to be better. They are still high. $100 doesn’t even level 1 newer weapon. People must be buying the silver packages because they aren’t getting any better.
- Tons of Leeches and Phantoms in Champions League already. Most of them had to be paid for. You have to get really lucky to get a Phantom from a super chest and/or open a lot of gold chests for the Leech.
It seems the player base is still good. Whales are still spending a lot of money. Lots of fully loaded MK2 Leeches and Phantoms. Seems about the same as last year. What do you think?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 11:51:58 GMT -5
If we had the real answer to that, we would have to close the forum, it's like 50% of the chat on here!
No clue about the revenue. The silver deals have always confused me a bit too. It's obviously a useful crowbar to make people play more and/or buy Premium, but they can't honestly think that anybody other than a mega whale is going to fork out that sort of cash for it.
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Post by T34 on Nov 11, 2019 17:04:03 GMT -5
After barking up the wrong tree for ages by looking at revenue figures estimated by independent organisations I’d say the best source of info are the mail.ru annual reports and publications/presentations/interviews involving Pix management.
In summary those seem to indicate the game is doing well in terms of important metrics, revenue is steady and is not really expected to grow beyond current levels. Steady as she goes. The best insight into their financials was in the Annual report a couple years ago where they detailed a lot of stuff.
I’d say what pIx is doing is churning over the cannon fodder and trying to retain the whales, dolphins, minnows, and those who play a lot. Game quality is balanced against P2W so that the illusion of a competitive environment remains for the players. Even whales would get bored if they’d never lose.
Edit: the constant updates and content releases also show that Pix is still interested in keeping the game going. If it wasn't worth the effort they wouldn't do it.
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Racerx7394
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Post by Racerx7394 on Nov 11, 2019 17:43:07 GMT -5
Good points, thanks T34. I knew you would have some information on that. I remember someone digging through the financials in the past and was curious if anyone did that recently. I expect the game is doing good too. Probably not growing, but I am surprised it is where it is today. I expected it be much worse off. |
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Nov 12, 2019 8:17:13 GMT -5
"You can never underestimate the stupidity of the general public."
-Scott Adams
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Post by GuitarGuy on Nov 12, 2019 12:36:11 GMT -5
My guess is there hurting for cash. The amount of ads has more than doubled in the past few months. I bet this is to compensate for lack of player dollars.
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Post by linearblade on Nov 12, 2019 13:38:13 GMT -5
My guess is there hurting for cash. The amount of ads has more than doubled in the past few months. I bet this is to compensate for lack of player dollars. I’d figure 30k solid champion players all platforms Likely 100/mo average Apple / google takes 30% 2million revenue monthly. That 2million number is a pretty heavy barrier for most small to mid size internet business to cross. And it is pretty common for whale business be it video games or pr0n. So 50/year. I’d bet money on that number too, especially since I highly doubt pixonic follows “gaap” even if they are public S |
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Post by Ⓑⓞⓑ Ⓓⓨⓛⓐⓝ on Nov 12, 2019 15:16:14 GMT -5
Welcome to the most asked question on the forums: thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/9124/walking-war-robots/sensortower.com/ios/us/pixonic-games-ltd/app/war-robots-multiplayer-battles/806077016/overviewThe revenue numbers (don't ask how they calculate this) have rarely varied much from the 3M monthly / 45k daily. I check these on a monthly basis, I used to have premium on think gaming for the deep dive; but haven't renewed it. Downloads & ranking on Sensortower generally remain fairly flat as well. IMO the game seems to be doing fine financially according to these sources. In-Game it appears veterans are departing, but that's always been the case albeit moreso in the last month due to CoD. The same 'exodus' happened at BoT release and most of the players returned from what I can gather. That said, gut feeling is the game is losing players slowly but making up for it with ad revenue and increased events. Whether whales leaving are being replaced by new baby whales, i'm unsure, I see a LOT of killer hangars on profiles with less than 2k wins though. |
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Post by Loganspawn on Nov 12, 2019 15:23:39 GMT -5
Welcome to the most asked question on the forums: thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/9124/walking-war-robots/sensortower.com/ios/us/pixonic-games-ltd/app/war-robots-multiplayer-battles/806077016/overviewThe revenue numbers (don't ask how they calculate this) have rarely varied much from the 3M monthly / 45k daily. I check these on a monthly basis, I used to have premium on think gaming for the deep dive; but haven't renewed it. Downloads & ranking on Sensortower generally remain fairly flat as well. IMO the game seems to be doing fine financially according to these sources. In-Game it appears veterans are departing, but that's always been the case albeit moreso in the last month due to CoD. The same 'exodus' happened at BoT release and most of the players returned from what I can gather. That said, gut feeling is the game is losing players slowly but making up for it with ad revenue and increased events. Whether whales leaving are being replaced by new baby whales, i'm unsure, I see a LOT of killer hangars on profiles with less than 2k wins though. I know that on Android I am seeing a allot of Maxed meta gear champs with around 3000 (plus or minus 1000) wins. I have been thinking WTH. There are fresh whales everyday IMO. |
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Post by Ⓑⓞⓑ Ⓓⓨⓛⓐⓝ on Nov 12, 2019 15:27:16 GMT -5
Welcome to the most asked question on the forums: thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/9124/walking-war-robots/sensortower.com/ios/us/pixonic-games-ltd/app/war-robots-multiplayer-battles/806077016/overviewThe revenue numbers (don't ask how they calculate this) have rarely varied much from the 3M monthly / 45k daily. I check these on a monthly basis, I used to have premium on think gaming for the deep dive; but haven't renewed it. Downloads & ranking on Sensortower generally remain fairly flat as well. IMO the game seems to be doing fine financially according to these sources. In-Game it appears veterans are departing, but that's always been the case albeit moreso in the last month due to CoD. The same 'exodus' happened at BoT release and most of the players returned from what I can gather. That said, gut feeling is the game is losing players slowly but making up for it with ad revenue and increased events. Whether whales leaving are being replaced by new baby whales, i'm unsure, I see a LOT of killer hangars on profiles with less than 2k wins though. I know that on Android I am seeing a allot of Maxed meta gear champs with around 3000 (plus or minus 1000) wins. I have been thinking WTH. There are fresh whales everyday IMO. I pretty religiously check hangars and profiles of guys that catch my attention in a match, I can count at least 5 today of names I didn't recognize with MK2 hangars and 2+ Leech with under 1500 wins, one of them had like 900 wins. Edit: iOS Take that FWIW, I guess. But there's definitely new players dropping big bucks. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 15:49:51 GMT -5
IMO the game seems to be doing fine financially according to these sources. In-Game it appears veterans are departing, but that's always been the case albeit moreso in the last month due to CoD. The same 'exodus' happened at BoT release and most of the players returned from what I can gather. That said, gut feeling is the game is losing players slowly but making up for it with ad revenue and increased events. I think that's a fair assessment. In the presentation(s) that Pixonic CPO has been making in the graph 'gacha' vs wild offer revenues we see them both sliding over time but I think Pixonic is happy that they have stabilized the situation. What we do know is that in their best month at the end of 2017 they were making 12M a month and as recently as middle of last year they were pulling 7M, so if they are at ~3M the drop must have felt quite dramatic. I do think that end of last year was harsh for them with new economy changes and "re-balancing" fully kicking in and driving some players away. I don't see any post-operations revenue data and I think that has done quite well for them. The first one did, at least. There isn't much competition, at least as far as fighting robot games: I must have tried 5-6 different robot games as alternative to War Robots and none of them gets it quite right, imo. But of course they also have to compete with non-robot games such as mentioned CoD. |
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Post by Rollo Tomasi on Nov 12, 2019 16:52:07 GMT -5
Welcome to the most asked question on the forums: thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/9124/walking-war-robots/sensortower.com/ios/us/pixonic-games-ltd/app/war-robots-multiplayer-battles/806077016/overviewThe revenue numbers (don't ask how they calculate this) have rarely varied much from the 3M monthly / 45k daily. I check these on a monthly basis, I used to have premium on think gaming for the deep dive; but haven't renewed it. Downloads & ranking on Sensortower generally remain fairly flat as well. IMO the game seems to be doing fine financially according to these sources. In-Game it appears veterans are departing, but that's always been the case albeit moreso in the last month due to CoD. The same 'exodus' happened at BoT release and most of the players returned from what I can gather. That said, gut feeling is the game is losing players slowly but making up for it with ad revenue and increased events.
Whether whales leaving are being replaced by new baby whales, i'm unsure, I see a LOT of killer hangars on profiles with less than 2k wins though. Total downloads are grossly inflated unless they are identified as new user DLs. Hell, with vid farming, I have probably given em 100+ DL over the past few weeks all by myself, lol. Vid saturation, delete, reinstall, rinse repeat. But I agree with you on the losing players part, or at least losing player activity. The mix of players I see in both red and blue teams when solo BR seems to be growing in diversity. A couple months ago (when in Champions League 2), I’d see low Champions League players some Champions League/Masters League boarder dwellers and the occasional legitimate Masters League 2 or 3 player. Now, I frequently see legitimate mid Masters League players on both teams and occasionally even EL players. Before you ask...by legitimate Masters League, I mean players w minimal meta and mostly level 7-10 gear, maybe some 12s, and a sincere effort. |
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Racerx7394
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Post by Racerx7394 on Nov 12, 2019 18:30:40 GMT -5
Welcome to the most asked question on the forums: thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/9124/walking-war-robots/sensortower.com/ios/us/pixonic-games-ltd/app/war-robots-multiplayer-battles/806077016/overviewThe revenue numbers (don't ask how they calculate this) have rarely varied much from the 3M monthly / 45k daily. I check these on a monthly basis, I used to have premium on think gaming for the deep dive; but haven't renewed it. Downloads & ranking on Sensortower generally remain fairly flat as well. IMO the game seems to be doing fine financially according to these sources. In-Game it appears veterans are departing, but that's always been the case albeit moreso in the last month due to CoD. The same 'exodus' happened at BoT release and most of the players returned from what I can gather. That said, gut feeling is the game is losing players slowly but making up for it with ad revenue and increased events. Whether whales leaving are being replaced by new baby whales, i'm unsure, I see a LOT of killer hangars on profiles with less than 2k wins though. Thanks Ⓑⓞⓑ Ⓓⓨⓛⓐⓝ and everyone else for contributing.
I thought there was a previous thread where someone stated Think Gaming data was unreliable. If Think is relatively accurate, then the revenues are up. I tracked it for a while 12-18 months ago and the revenue was usually in the low 30's or high 20's. It's possible revenues are up from that time period because they have more ways to consume resources (pilots, modules, etc.) and they have more packages on sale like the booster packages. Pilots, premium modules, and boosters are expensive. It also seems they have more events and sales on the event tokens. They also have more ads to run.
I think you are right about the baby whales. I am see the full Leach, Phantom hangars by relatively new players.
I don't spend as much as I did, but I still spend money on the game and I hope they keep the lights on until a better option comes around.
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Racerx7394
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Post by Racerx7394 on Nov 12, 2019 18:33:18 GMT -5
My guess is there hurting for cash. The amount of ads has more than doubled in the past few months. I bet this is to compensate for lack of player dollars. I’d figure 30k solid champion players all platforms Likely 100/mo average Apple / google takes 30% 2million revenue monthly. That 2million number is a pretty heavy barrier for most small to mid size internet business to cross. And it is pretty common for whale business be it video games or pr0n. So 50/year. I’d bet money on that number too, especially since I highly doubt pixonic follows “gaap” even if they are public S Based on the numbers from Senortower, your estimates are really good. |
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Post by Replicant on Nov 13, 2019 11:24:57 GMT -5
Good points, thanks T34 . I knew you would have some information on that. I remember someone digging through the financials in the past and was curious if anyone did that recently. I expect the game is doing good too. Probably not growing, but I am surprised it is where it is today. I expected it be much worse off. I stopped taking a close look when they stopped breaking out pixonic-specific data within the segment. T34 ‘s summary is accurate. We’re now at the point where war robots-specific data is not reliable, and the reliable data is not war robots-specific. Based on Pixonic’s actions and the general state of the segment reported on mail.ru’s financials, the game is “healthy.” |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 11:46:19 GMT -5
Good points, thanks T34 . I knew you would have some information on that. I remember someone digging through the financials in the past and was curious if anyone did that recently. I expect the game is doing good too. Probably not growing, but I am surprised it is where it is today. I expected it be much worse off. Based on Pixonic’s actions and the general state of the segment reported on mail.ru’s financials, the game is “healthy.” Pixonic now has ~200 employees but labor cost in Russia are pretty low. Even if we take 2-3 million monthly revenue I think it still generates healthy profits for mail.ru. Seems like mail.ru has made a great deal: they bought Pixonic for 30 M back in 2016 and I think it's very probable that in 2017 alone Pixonic generated way more than that in profits. Which makes me wonder (speculate) if given how some business is done in Russia Pixonic was forced sell to be left alone. |
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Nov 13, 2019 12:13:55 GMT -5
There are a few notables with 2-5 hangars full of maxed Mk2 max leech pilot hangars. Everyone can relax about the longevity of War Robots, there’s a bunch of guys paying massive amounts of money for us to have a game
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Post by Loganspawn on Nov 13, 2019 12:41:40 GMT -5
Based on Pixonic’s actions and the general state of the segment reported on mail.ru’s financials, the game is “healthy.” Pixonic now has ~200 employees but labor cost in Russia are pretty low. Even if we take 2-3 million monthly revenue I think it still generates healthy profits for mail.ru. Seems like mail.ru has made a great deal: they bought Pixonic for 30 M back in 2016 and I think it's very probable that in 2017 alone Pixonic generated way more than that in profits. Which makes me wonder (speculate) if given how some business is done in Russia Pixonic was forced sell to be left alone. that isnt just Russia that happens in..... seen it right here in the good old USA myself at least twice with my own eyes. |
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Post by Replicant on Nov 13, 2019 14:04:35 GMT -5
Based on Pixonic’s actions and the general state of the segment reported on mail.ru’s financials, the game is “healthy.” Pixonic now has ~200 employees but labor cost in Russia are pretty low. Even if we take 2-3 million monthly revenue I think it still generates healthy profits for mail.ru. Seems like mail.ru has made a great deal: they bought Pixonic for 30 M back in 2016 and I think it's very probable that in 2017 alone Pixonic generated way more than that in profits. Which makes me wonder (speculate) if given how some business is done in Russia Pixonic was forced sell to be left alone. Just keep in mind converting sales into actually recognizable/receivable cash is still an issue for them. Pix runs a massive deferred revenue account. On the recognition side, the income from purchases gets amortized over the life of the virtual item. So for example purchase of keys might amortize over the two month period leading up to them switching from "red" keys to "blue" keys. Whereas the purchase of an Ares might be amortized over a year or more. On the cash side, the money still gets filtered through apple, steam or whatever other platform you're spending on. Factoring istore purchases to fund growth-related spending was one of pixonic's early "innovations." They were extremely proud of it back in 2015-2016. I bring this up because in hindsight the merger looks like it worked out well for both sides - at least from the perspective of those who were compensated. Mail.ru got a relatively mature platform and the pix development crew got their exit. If Russian policy hadn't turned sharply against ICOs, the developer's at BoT would probably be thrilled right about now. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 15:00:22 GMT -5
Just keep in mind converting sales into actually recognizable/receivable cash is still an issue for them. Pix runs a massive deferred revenue account. On the recognition side, the income from purchases gets amortized over the life of the virtual item. ... I bring this up because in hindsight the merger looks like it worked out well for both sides - at least from the perspective of those who were compensated. Mail.ru got a relatively mature platform and the pix development crew got their exit. If Russian policy hadn't turned sharply against ICOs, the developer's at BoT would probably be thrilled right about now. I'm not in accounting and certainly not in the video gaming industry but I don't understand why you'd want to amortize sale of a virtual item. First, to Pixonic it's a sale and not purchase, second, once sold it has no value to them and will not bring any recurring income or loss. I believed they just book the income and move on to coming up with next OP crap they can peddle. Not so sure it worked out so great for Pixonic- the company's sale price might have been undervalued. When investing in US people are willing to pay a significant premium for a company which is showing strong growth. I believe in 2016 War Robots was already showing good growth and significant potential. If by Sep of 2017 company was pulling in as much as 12M a month with smaller headcount than now, the purchase of Pixonic has paid for itself for mail.ru and then some. Of course, all of is a hindsight speculation, maybe success wasn't certain and Pixonic owners wanted to cash out. Lastly, I see you play on steam and wonder if we have bumped into each other, do you play War Robots under the same name as on the forum? |
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Post by Replicant on Nov 13, 2019 17:25:32 GMT -5
Just keep in mind converting sales into actually recognizable/receivable cash is still an issue for them. Pix runs a massive deferred revenue account. On the recognition side, the income from purchases gets amortized over the life of the virtual item. ... I bring this up because in hindsight the merger looks like it worked out well for both sides - at least from the perspective of those who were compensated. Mail.ru got a relatively mature platform and the pix development crew got their exit. If Russian policy hadn't turned sharply against ICOs, the developer's at BoT would probably be thrilled right about now. I'm not in accounting and certainly not in the video gaming industry but I don't understand why you'd want to amortize sale of a virtual item. First, to Pixonic it's a sale and not purchase, second, once sold it has no value to them and will not bring any recurring income or loss. I believed they just book the income and move on to coming up with next OP crap they can peddle. Not so sure it worked out so great for Pixonic- the company's sale price might have been undervalued. When investing in US people are willing to pay a significant premium for a company which is showing strong growth. I believe in 2016 War Robots was already showing good growth and significant potential. If by Sep of 2017 company was pulling in as much as 12M a month with smaller headcount than now, the purchase of Pixonic has paid for itself for mail.ru and then some. Of course, all of is a hindsight speculation, maybe success wasn't certain and Pixonic owners wanted to cash out. Lastly, I see you play on steam and wonder if we have bumped into each other, do you play War Robots under the same name as on the forum? Its not so much a want as a GAAP requirement. They'd love to take the income all at once, but the virtual item represents something in the nature of a liability. The company still has to provide a platform for you to use the virtual item. To reflect that relationship, the income is taken over time instead of all at once. To put this in perspective, the year of the merger I think the deferred income was roughly 3 times the amount of the actually recognized income. I play under the name Replicant Jötunn |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 19:02:16 GMT -5
Its not so much a want as a GAAP requirement. They'd love to take the income all at once, but the virtual item represents something in the nature of a liability. The company still has to provide a platform for you to use the virtual item. To reflect that relationship, the income is taken over time instead of all at once. To put this in perspective, the year of the merger I think the deferred income was roughly 3 times the amount of the actually recognized income. I play under the name Replicant Jötunn I see. So what you are saying is it's hard to determine how they are doing based on current revenue numbers because the deferred income might skew the picture. I do remember seeing your name, but can't recall particular game. Anything Bladerunner related is going to stick in my mind. Other players that I remember well are Smokey and Feline something, I know they are pretty powerful so I always go after them, much to my detriment. I think the Feline dude is on to me too, he always watches out for me.  |
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