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Post by zombiecyborg on Mar 27, 2018 12:26:33 GMT -5
Knowing what you know now, would you wish for a return to the old tier system where hangar score was the determining factor to choose your opponents?
I am curious to see what the community thinks?
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Post by >bobby_digital< on Mar 27, 2018 12:33:54 GMT -5
Why is this even a question?
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Post by HarvesterOsorrow on Mar 27, 2018 12:39:34 GMT -5
Why is this even a question? And who are the two db’s that said they don’t want to go to match making by hangar strength ? (And no that’s not death buttons)
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Post by Fry on Mar 27, 2018 12:42:39 GMT -5
Considering the fact that now Gepard costs 250AU absolutely yes.
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Post by Anon O. Mous on Mar 27, 2018 12:48:43 GMT -5
Why is this even a question? And who are the two db’s that said they don’t want to go to match making by hangar strength ? (And no that’s not death buttons) Obviously people that weren't around prior to the change. I joined only a few weeks prior to the change but after the seal clubbing patch, and I still prefer the old MM. I firmly believe that it would be very hard to tank if MM put you in to a match based on your current hangar. I could very well be wrong and uninformed, but that's what I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have a 12/12 hangar, wouldn't the old MM have put you in with other 12/12's? And if you switched them with a 6/6 hangar, wouldn't you have been matched with other 6/6 players?
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Post by hyderier on Mar 27, 2018 13:01:15 GMT -5
Knowing what you know now, would you wish for a return to the old tier system where hangar score was the determining factor to choose your opponents? I am curious to see what the community thinks? Old tier system... No way, hangar score was calculated in a totally idiotic way, resulting in everybody needing to run almost the same bots (those most powerful for a given hangar score), or being at a disadvantage (most blatant example being 9/1 MagGep tier, but same phenomenon applied to every tier). A new tier system, now that would be a different story.
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Post by Danny Linguini on Mar 27, 2018 13:14:50 GMT -5
The current league system could actually almost work if artificial manipulation weren't baked into it. It would never fully eliminate tankers, but obviously players would find ways to manipulate a hangar-based ranking system as well -- they already did. I'm talking about the manipulative crap Pix does under the guise of matchmaking for their own gain, I.e., encouraging players to dump real $$$ in order to compete with the higher level hangars they're frequently matched up against. Take that BS out and tighten up the MM parameters, and games would actually be competitive and fun.
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Post by Forumite on Mar 27, 2018 19:12:26 GMT -5
Hear Here!!
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Post by maverick on Mar 27, 2018 19:16:39 GMT -5
Never played under the old system so I didn't vote.
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Post by RedRaider on Mar 27, 2018 19:24:53 GMT -5
Pix has tried 2 different ways to get fair play and it has been manipulated either way. I really don't think there is a really good/fair way to do this. the only way I see this MM working is that once you are in a league you can't go back. If you are in gold, regardless of being in 1,2 or 3 you cant go back to silver. I know that new players will "tank" to stay in their league but advance in level but there is an easy fix for that too. leagues and levels are bound together, or something like that.
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j1mm0n0
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Post by j1mm0n0 on Mar 27, 2018 19:37:04 GMT -5
there is no question , and there was no ^tanker^ tho
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Post by Carbonite on Mar 27, 2018 19:43:57 GMT -5
Honestly, I don’t really care. They just need to do something about creating more consistently balanced matches where everyone is motivated to win.
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Post by Gdu4ever on Mar 27, 2018 19:44:10 GMT -5
Voted Yes but quite meaningless. Face the reality: No it won't go back.
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Post by Robotor Affan on Mar 27, 2018 19:45:31 GMT -5
I voted No.
I heard old tier system is just based on Bots level only? is this true? If yes, then League System is much better (if everyone else playing it fair)
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Post by mystic spastic on Mar 27, 2018 19:52:56 GMT -5
Ok, I'll say it:
I voted no. A pure hangar based MM will lead to clubbing yet again.
Experience/skill/knowledge counts for a LOT. And, humans being humans, there will be a fair amount of people exploiting newbs by running very light hangars in order to play against the newest players in the game. Being trounced by a player with 1000 times more experience than you can be just as disheartening as being blasted by baby whale that's been playing for 5 hours, but bought a Shocktrain Haechi and gold leveled it up to 8/8.
My more evolved take on the matter: Combine experience plus the strength of a players strongest hangar to determine their MM ranking "zone".
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Post by moody on Mar 27, 2018 21:39:04 GMT -5
I voted No. I heard old tier system is just based on Bots level only? is this true? If yes, then League System is much better (if everyone else playing it fair) It was based on the highest level bot / weapon combination in your hangar. Regular and consistently good matches all the time - not like it is now. I don't know how you can vote for or against if you haven't experienced both.
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Post by Robotor Affan on Mar 27, 2018 21:45:36 GMT -5
I voted No. I heard old tier system is just based on Bots level only? is this true? If yes, then League System is much better (if everyone else playing it fair) It was based on the highest level bot / weapon combination in your hangar. Regular and consistently good matches all the time - not like it is now. I don't know how you can vote for or against if you haven't experienced both. Because I really like the current League System. I do read some history about Gepard Seal clubbing era and the League System should fix the Gepard seal clubbing issue (and thats why it was introduced) And you mention it based on "highest bot/weps combination" in a hangar. Can you please clarify more? Let's say I have 5 slots, four 6/6 bots gear and one 12/12, will I get pit againts 12/12 opponents? or it will take average?
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Post by ♧SGT FURY 24/7♧ on Mar 27, 2018 23:10:45 GMT -5
If you had one dominant bot, old MM would match you according to that bot. It was best to keep all bots close to even. I kept my Geps (I ran 5 with the occasional Rogatka) at 31 (bot @ 4 with 3 light weapons total lvl 27). If i felt up to stiffer competition, i could just run stronger magnums, and voila! stronger opponents.
The lines were clear and defined. Certain bots (Brits) automatically bumped you up, and you simply could not beat up little hangars with a big one.
Yes, mag Geps were found to be a very effective combo. They worked as designed to destroy reds. Kinda the name of the game, right? They were readily available to everyone through cash or grinding and saving gold. And, let's not forget, they were LIGHT, LOW HP BOTS WITH LIGHT, SHORT RANGE WEAPONS. One could simply upgrade past them in no time.
Having been in both worlds, I vastly prefer gear based MM to the shart show we have now. Facing off against maxed mk2 DIESS hangars with a 6/6 legacy hangar is a much worse beating than any I ever had from or dealt with Mag Geps, I promise.
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Post by aceboy44 on Mar 27, 2018 23:16:03 GMT -5
I voted NO (unless they refund me the amount of $$ I invested in this game)
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Post by codebrown on Mar 27, 2018 23:28:54 GMT -5
The old tier system was crap too. It actively encouraged people NOT to upgrade their robots. That's always been completely stupid. The simple fact is some people are better than others, and you must balance teams by how good the players are. The current system accounts for both skill and robot strength... Sort-of... But it needs to be fixed. The biggest problem with it is tanking. The other more minor problem is that they don't use robot strength at all, and rely simply on how the better robots push you into higher tiers. BOTH player skill AND robot strength need to both be in the matchmaking equation.
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squatch
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Post by squatch on Mar 28, 2018 0:29:21 GMT -5
I voted yes.the matches were much better with the old system.the mag gep was strong in the old bronze and silver teirs. But really all one had to do was to upgrade betond that. And besides it wasnt like the geps were unstoppable, i killed many geps with a thunder taran boa.
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Post by spartan44 on Mar 28, 2018 2:16:00 GMT -5
Having played both mm systems extensively, it's no contest. The old system was not only vastly superior but it also made the game fun on a whole different level. If you never played the old system you will never know how truly great Walking War Robots was.....it was phenomenal.
With all due respect, voting that the new system is superior may be worthy of the esteemed label of "Numb Nuts"
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Post by The VVatcher on Mar 28, 2018 2:51:20 GMT -5
The old system would effectively put MK2 into their own tier. This reason alone, I would have to say Yes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 6:21:20 GMT -5
Let's not forget they didn't nerf gep until after the MM swap. Both systems suck because they both require a balanced game, but I voted old MM just because I'd take 30% of games being 4/9-12 maggeps over one 「roast beef」 running MK2 12/12 DEISS 10% of my games.
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Post by wildboar on Mar 28, 2018 7:07:14 GMT -5
The poll should maybe have a 3rd option of don't know( maybe because new player and don't remember old system) There were really only one or two anomalies to fix in the old MM ... 4/12 Mag Gep clans marauding would have been an easier fix... but it's all about the $$$ not the MM itself... current system encourages an arms race $$$ ... old system people could stick where they were happy which was great for casual /new players - no$$$
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Post by hyderier on Mar 28, 2018 9:36:44 GMT -5
Pix has tried 2 different ways to get fair play and it has been manipulated either way. The one doing most manipulation was Pix themselves... Trying to get people to spend money by streaks of wins and losses. A system which used gear (total power of hangar calculated with goal of getting actual accurate estimate of real battle power, for example giving most powerful setup more weight than the less powerful setups) and experience, combined with completely random matching within same matching bracket (not trying to give some player win or loss). Experience can't be lost, so as you gain experience you will be matched in a tougher bracket, even if you use the same bots. It could even be so, that as you gain more powerful bots, the significance of experience becomes less, so you will naturally want to upgrade your gear to avoid being out-matched. This would of course also mean, that skill would actually matter. If you were better, you would actually win more. What a shocking thought.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 10:01:26 GMT -5
With the new hangar decks system. Using the old system of hangar weight for match making would be a nightmare to accomplish now.
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Post by Domino on Mar 28, 2018 10:38:58 GMT -5
The only way I think it will be achievable is to have a non-league mode.
Run what you got and you can only use hangar 1.
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Post by Replicant on Mar 28, 2018 11:02:08 GMT -5
People get rose-colored nostalgia for hanger MM. It was more flawed than the current system. You couldn’t (even in principle) create effective micro-tiers due to the number of weapon and bot combinations. So many robots had artificial adjustments that made them non-viable. Minmaxing at the tier margins is unavoidable and functionally similar to tanking. New MM s bad because it prioritizes quick match making over balanced teams, because it’s mathematically designed to promote you above the ability of you bots to effectively compete on damage and because it allows tanking. All of these problems have relatively simple solutions that aren’t being implemented for reasons we can only speculate about. Tier MM wasn’t fixable even in principle.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 11:27:30 GMT -5
People get rose-colored nostalgia for hanger MM. It was more flawed than the current system. You couldn’t (even in principle) create effective micro-tiers due to the number of weapon and bot combinations. So many robots had artificial adjustments that made them non-viable. Minmaxing at the tier margins is unavoidable and functionally similar to tanking. New MM s bad because it prioritizes quick match making over balanced teams, because it’s mathematically designed to promote you above the ability of you bots to effectively compete on damage and because it allows tanking. All of these problems have relatively simple solutions that aren’t being implemented for reasons we can only speculate about. Tier MM wasn’t fixable even in principle. I agree with that last line only because the gear in the game would have to be truly balanced to fix said system.
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