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Post by creepshow on Mar 3, 2018 22:05:52 GMT -5
I don't understand why so many f2p players feel entitled to play in Masters/Champ, or why they feel entitled to have the best gear. It blows my mind. Coming from the MtG community, all players don't feel entitled to play on the pro tour or have a power 9 legacy/vintage deck, especially budget players. Most are content to play around the kitchen table, or casual Friday night tournaments at the local card shop, and crack the occasional booster to add to their collection, and patiently trade. Why can't all these f2p War Robots players just be content with a diamond/expert ceiling? Why can't they be content to patiently gather components? End rant. Edit: I'm f2p myself
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Post by Sub Z on Mar 3, 2018 22:10:08 GMT -5
I don't understand why so many f2p players feel entitled to play in Masters/Champ, or why they feel entitled to have the best gear. It blows my mind. Coming from the MtG community, all players don't feel entitled to play on the pro tour or have a power 9 legacy/vintage deck, especially budget players. Most are content to play around the kitchen table, or casual Friday night tournaments at the local card shop, and crack the occasional booster to add to their collection, and patiently trade. Why can't all these f2p War Robots players just be content with a diamond/expert ceiling? Why can't they be content to patiently gather components? End rant. Edit: I'm f2p myself What's MTG?
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Post by SuperHero on Mar 3, 2018 22:37:27 GMT -5
I'm guessing from context that it's Magic the Gathering.
And while I do not disagree with the OP, there is a little bit more context to the issue. Many of the F2P players grinded for a long time and the game previously rewarded it with being able to compete with the big boys. Money allowed players an advantage, usually in the form of faster upgrades or getting certain bots and weapons faster. However, starting from the switchbots onwards, the prices started rocketing, and access to bots became more cash focused.
Example: You could previously grind gold and eventually earn yourself a Fury or a Lancelot. However, now you are at the mercy of the Black Market or the silly exchange rates of the sales that are available periodically. There is no way to guarantee yourself a Component bot via a calculated timeline except via cash. That's one of the biggest issues being faced now.
It becomes worse when you can now purchase a Haechi as a Lvl 1 pilot but not a Patton.
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Post by T34 on Mar 3, 2018 23:07:37 GMT -5
in addition to superhero above I would say there a few more points to consider.
1. The MM does not separate the haves and haves not by design so the haves can feel the power for the money invested. 2. The league system pushes all up into the top tiers rather fast by design in order to keep the supply of seals for the clubbers 3. Pixonic frequently refers to the game as being competitive and balanced. The cornerstones of a balanced competition are shattered as soon as they they sell significant advantage to those who play a lot of money.
Can't have it both ways. People are realising what Pix is doing and revenue and the player base is on a steep decline.
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ralphwaldo
Destrier
Posts: 75
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Platform: iOS
League: Master
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Post by ralphwaldo on Mar 3, 2018 23:13:03 GMT -5
I don't think entitlement is the right word. Resentment is probably more accurate.
I think there are many players who resent the crass direction the game has taken in past 9 or so months. The game has always had a P2W side of it but now it's glaringly acute. Before the DIESS bots you had a much more balanced battle field than there is now. Yes, there were still whales, but when they were all piloting fleets of Lances you could as F2P player develop ways to counter them. Aside of the DB Griffin there were not many builds that could wipe a bot out almost instantly. Also- with enough grinding you could get enough gold to get whichever bot you wanted or drop $50. Out side champ league you would still see a pretty diverse variety of bots. The games were slower, but also a lot more strategic.
The game in it's current state- Battles throughout the leagues are wildly lopsided, often ending in whoever spent more or tanked more as opposed to anything resembling skill. There are very few reliable path ways for F2P players to acquire competitive gear no matter how much they grind. Keep that in mind- I suspect there are far more F2P players than there are paying players. F2P players keep wait times down and the playing population healthy. When Pix started introducing OP bots and gear at prices inaccessible to F2P players and no grind path to acquire them- they garnered resentment from the player base. It's no fun to be clubbed over an over again and be told that F2P should be happy with that.
Last note- If you watch any of the Ads that Pix offers. You are not a F2P player. You are making PIX money.
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Post by FlashAhAhh on Mar 3, 2018 23:17:47 GMT -5
I don't understand why so many f2p players feel entitled to play in Masters/Champ, or why they feel entitled to have the best gear. It blows my mind. Coming from the MtG community, all players don't feel entitled to play on the pro tour or have a power 9 legacy/vintage deck, especially budget players. Most are content to play around the kitchen table, or casual Friday night tournaments at the local card shop, and crack the occasional booster to add to their collection, and patiently trade. Why can't all these f2p War Robots players just be content with a diamond/expert ceiling? Why can't they be content to patiently gather components? End rant. Edit: I'm f2p myselfy You've failed to understand the problem. How long would MTG last if those small kitchen table games kept getting invaded by champ level decks and there was no way to get rid of them? A player could just walk into your kitchen with a 100% chance of winning and this happened in almost every game you play? How long would it last?? We don't feel entitled to play with the champs, we feel entitled not to.
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Post by SuperHero on Mar 4, 2018 2:59:54 GMT -5
I don't understand why so many f2p players feel entitled to play in Masters/Champ, or why they feel entitled to have the best gear. It blows my mind. Coming from the MtG community, all players don't feel entitled to play on the pro tour or have a power 9 legacy/vintage deck, especially budget players. Most are content to play around the kitchen table, or casual Friday night tournaments at the local card shop, and crack the occasional booster to add to their collection, and patiently trade. Why can't all these f2p War Robots players just be content with a diamond/expert ceiling? Why can't they be content to patiently gather components? End rant. Edit: I'm f2p myselfy You've failed to understand the problem. How long would MTG last if those small kitchen table games kept getting invaded by champ level decks and there was no way to get rid of them? A player could just walk into your kitchen with a 100% chance of winning and this happened in almost every game you play? How long would it last?? We don't feel entitled to play with the champs, we feel entitled not to. Well said. I think the problem is that right now the player base has shrunk to point that this will not happen. Previously Pix experimented with the MM letting Champs only face Champs. But wait times were getting silly. So (using the MtG analogy), there is no boundary between the Pro Tour players and the casual kitchen table player. They are all in the same pool. As a Champ (even before the switchbot era and before I got some nice stuff from Pix), it's already a struggle for me to keep up with the whales and yet I'm also feeling bad for red and blues who arent champs and come in to fill in the numbers and get their butts crushed by a whole squad of NOOB or CDxx. Worse still, right now this crazy game economy makes folks tank to "farm" and club to the extent that the lower tiers are sometimes WORSE than Champs League.
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Post by FlashAhAhh on Mar 4, 2018 4:39:38 GMT -5
You've failed to understand the problem. How long would MTG last if those small kitchen table games kept getting invaded by champ level decks and there was no way to get rid of them? A player could just walk into your kitchen with a 100% chance of winning and this happened in almost every game you play? How long would it last?? We don't feel entitled to play with the champs, we feel entitled not to. Well said. I think the problem is that right now the player base has shrunk to point that this will not happen. Previously Pix experimented with the MM letting Champs only face Champs. But wait times were getting silly. So (using the MtG analogy), there is no boundary between the Pro Tour players and the casual kitchen table player. They are all in the same pool. As a Champ (even before the switchbot era and before I got some nice stuff from Pix), it's already a struggle for me to keep up with the whales and yet I'm also feeling bad for red and blues who arent champs and come in to fill in the numbers and get their butts crushed by a whole squad of NOOB or CDxx. Worse still, right now this crazy game economy makes folks tank to "farm" and club to the extent that the lower tiers are sometimes WORSE than Champs League. It's such a damn shame. I have NO problems with shocktrains, dashes or any of the component gear. I have no problem grinding away to compete with wallet warriors... in fact I love it. Thata called end game, and a deep, varied end game is an important element to any game. But there needs to be an actual GAME you play through to reach the end game and you have to allow for people who are happy to just play away in novice leagues. Letting end game filter all the way down is whats destroying the game. Simple max levels for leagues would be all it takes. So a l12m2 STbulg would function like a l7 setup in gold league. It's not too late either. People LOVED this game and would return on droves.
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Post by Paps on Mar 4, 2018 6:38:52 GMT -5
I think my main issue (having reached top tier before components hit), is that the bar got raised but there's no way to get a longer pole without paying or using unbalanced new equipment.
Take a look at the top. Almost nothing but gear introduced in the last few months, barring orkans and tarans.
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Post by Conflict's Student on Mar 5, 2018 0:01:02 GMT -5
Why can't all these f2p War Robots players just be content with a diamond/expert ceiling? Here's the problem with your theory : I've never been above Expert II or upgraded a single bot/weapon above level 9, but over the past month or so every single match I've played has been full of Master/Champ level players with Mk2 12/12 everything. As in Mk2 12/12 Shocktrain Spectre type hangars. And of course some tankers with similar hangars (and frequently 8-9k wins) but Diamond/Expert league ratings. And based on what I've heard about lower leagues, tankers with hangars like that are infesting leagues all the way down to Bronze. It's like Pix decided to bring back seal clubbing with the latest batch of grossly overpowered "new content" for sale, because apparently nothing brings out the credit cards like the thrill of easy wins.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 0:46:33 GMT -5
Not sure this belongs here, but I will add it anyway. In the "old days", you might face down a maxed player in his ancilot, and he'd rip you up, but you could corner shoot him, jump inside his ancile with a DB or a rog, or basically still give a good showing of yourself. In your MTG analogy, he has a bigger green stompy deck than you, but you could still try to burn him with a fast red deck wins build.
In today's game, your teammates get hit by 2-3 shocktrains, and you just fold. No shooting, no fun, just death. It just happened to me, and I have a high end hangar. It's like facing the dork with the channel fireball 1st turn win deck. No fun to lose without firing shots.
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Post by T34 on Mar 5, 2018 1:04:59 GMT -5
Simple max levels for leagues would be all it takes. So a l12m2 STbulg would function like a l7 setup in gold league. That would not allow whales starting off to get the benefit from maxing their gear. Sort of a spending inhibitor. Naughty Flash ;-) Issue with the P2W strategy is how do you separate the grinders and cashed up whales from the F2P group while still providing a very large incentive to spend money and to grind. To me it seems diametrically opposite and I simply cannot think of a solution. Smirnov said to use the MM to do the separation but we all know that is not reality.
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Post by FlashAhAhh on Mar 5, 2018 1:08:35 GMT -5
Simple max levels for leagues would be all it takes. So a l12m2 STbulg would function like a l7 setup in gold league. That would not allow whales starting off to get the benefit from maxing their gear. Sort of a spending inhibitor. Naughty Flash ;-) Issue with the P2W strategy is how do you separate the grinders and cashed up whales from the F2P group while still providing a very large incentive to spend money and to grind. To me it seems diametrically opposite and I simply cannot think of a solution. Smirnov said to use the MM to do the separation but we all know that is not reality.
I didn't say they would actually do it! Just saying it would work. It WOULD still bring in heaps from actual sales. but you are right, they would have no reason to level up and spend alllll that gold (anyone calculated it.. the silver alone...... $$$$$)
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Post by SuperHero on Mar 5, 2018 3:02:14 GMT -5
It's such a damn shame. I have NO problems with shocktrains, dashes or any of the component gear. I have no problem grinding away to compete with wallet warriors... in fact I love it. Thata called end game, and a deep, varied end game is an important element to any game. But there needs to be an actual GAME you play through to reach the end game and you have to allow for people who are happy to just play away in novice leagues. Letting end game filter all the way down is whats destroying the game. Simple max levels for leagues would be all it takes. So a l12m2 STbulg would function like a l7 setup in gold league. It's not too late either. People LOVED this game and would return on droves. Actually I DO have an issue with Shocktrains. I can live with nearly any of the rest. It negates both skilled play as well as gameplay balance. I use it cos otherwise I get stomped. But that's the problem. There is no counter. Nearly every other weapon in the game and bit in the game has some kind of counter. But the Shocktrain is at a range and a power which makes it stupid. It's like having rock and paper at the same time. Scissors has no chance of winning. Especially when the shocktrain is married to either the Bulgasari or Spectre.
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Post by FlashAhAhh on Mar 5, 2018 4:16:49 GMT -5
It's such a damn shame. I have NO problems with shocktrains, dashes or any of the component gear. I have no problem grinding away to compete with wallet warriors... in fact I love it. Thata called end game, and a deep, varied end game is an important element to any game. But there needs to be an actual GAME you play through to reach the end game and you have to allow for people who are happy to just play away in novice leagues. Letting end game filter all the way down is whats destroying the game. Simple max levels for leagues would be all it takes. So a l12m2 STbulg would function like a l7 setup in gold league. It's not too late either. People LOVED this game and would return on droves. Actually I DO have an issue with Shocktrains. I can live with nearly any of the rest. It negates both skilled play as well as gameplay balance. I use it cos otherwise I get stomped. But that's the problem. There is no counter. Nearly every other weapon in the game and bit in the game has some kind of counter. But the Shocktrain is at a range and a power which makes it stupid. It's like having rock and paper at the same time. Scissors has no chance of winning. Especially when the shocktrain is married to either the Bulgasari or Spectre. Yeah.... fair enough. My comment is looking through my "I have mk2 Sts" glasses in which case they seem really balanced because 95% of the people with the same setup SUCK with it. I think I have an advantage because I've been brawling with a scourgasari since very early on so have mastered target priority (Hit the guy on the furtherst right... not hard people!!!) and shield angles... Where as most of them just rely on clicking the button and letting the weapon do the work. Hell there are STILL a heap of ST Heachis out there that will pop out and pump a shot into my shield while wearing a full burst from me... and then do the SAME damn thing again 9 seconds later! But yeah, if you aren't rocking one yourself..... I retract my statement about STs. But all the other stuff is fine.
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Post by r2d2 on Mar 5, 2018 4:26:34 GMT -5
It's such a damn shame. I have NO problems with shocktrains, dashes or any of the component gear. I have no problem grinding away to compete with wallet warriors... in fact I love it. Thata called end game, and a deep, varied end game is an important element to any game. But there needs to be an actual GAME you play through to reach the end game and you have to allow for people who are happy to just play away in novice leagues. Letting end game filter all the way down is whats destroying the game. Simple max levels for leagues would be all it takes. So a l12m2 STbulg would function like a l7 setup in gold league. It's not too late either. People LOVED this game and would return on droves. Actually I DO have an issue with Shocktrains. I can live with nearly any of the rest. It negates both skilled play as well as gameplay balance. I use it cos otherwise I get stomped. But that's the problem. There is no counter. Nearly every other weapon in the game and bit in the game has some kind of counter. But the Shocktrain is at a range and a power which makes it stupid. It's like having rock and paper at the same time. Scissors has no chance of winning. Especially when the shocktrain is married to either the Bulgasari or Spectre. I’m not even sure if there was skill to begin with when playing War Robots even back in the old days. All I know is the stronger your gears are, the better chances of winning. I think it’s no different from what it is today.
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Post by SuperHero on Mar 5, 2018 4:36:23 GMT -5
I’m not even sure if there was skill to begin with when playing War Robots even back in the old days. All I know is the stronger your gears are, the better chances of winning. I think it’s no different from what it is today. Gotta respectfully disagree. While you are right the chances of winning might be better, I don't have a single bot higher than 10-11 and I'm regularly matching or outscoring folks with full MK2 bots and weapons. And I do not even consider myself good! I've seen @nixpilot get a million dmg average in the ancilot meta era with an all Griffin Hangar. Skill, experience and tactical brains definitely play a part. And I know when I'm being stupid and causing myself a bad game or score. gear and levels matter for sure! But the fact that I can use my scrub account in the Silver League (4 slots all silver bots Lvl 6 and lower) and beat a tanker/seal clubber with MK2 gear with shocktrains proves that skill is definitely a factor. Things like Cossack or Gepard death spirals, corner shooting, long-range corner peeking etc.... knowing when to retreat, attack, read what your teammates are doing etc..... Those things all matter. I just played a match where we got totally squished because while I went to cap one beacon, all the blue randoms huddled in one corner and allowed 3 Shocktrain bots to play ping pong with them. I wanted to scream at them to spread out! Trust me, skill and brains make the difference.
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Post by r2d2 on Mar 5, 2018 7:11:22 GMT -5
I’m not even sure if there was skill to begin with when playing War Robots even back in the old days. All I know is the stronger your gears are, the better chances of winning. I think it’s no different from what it is today. Gotta respectfully disagree. While you are right the chances of winning might be better, I don't have a single bot higher than 10-11 and I'm regularly matching or outscoring folks with full MK2 bots and weapons. And I do not even consider myself good! I've seen @nixpilot get a million dmg average in the ancilot meta era with an all Griffin Hangar. Skill, experience and tactical brains definitely play a part. And I know when I'm being stupid and causing myself a bad game or score. gear and levels matter for sure! But the fact that I can use my scrub account in the Silver League (4 slots all silver bots Lvl 6 and lower) and beat a tanker/seal clubber with MK2 gear with shocktrains proves that skill is definitely a factor. Things like Cossack or Gepard death spirals, corner shooting, long-range corner peeking etc.... knowing when to retreat, attack, read what your teammates are doing etc..... Those things all matter. I just played a match where we got totally squished because while I went to cap one beacon, all the blue randoms huddled in one corner and allowed 3 Shocktrain bots to play ping pong with them. I wanted to scream at them to spread out! Trust me, skill and brains make the difference. I went on suicide mission mode after getting fed up with matches pooling me with mk-IIs(blues or reds) during the lunar event when I myself don’t even have mk-IIs. I was really surprised to still make top 3 even when meching out first with 4-7 minutes on the clock and lost. On the other hand, when I do try to win by staying alive as long as possible(hiding, avoiding & waiting), trying to cap as much beacons as I can, I usually end up bottom 3 when losing. That’s when I realized that doing more damage to reds, pounding on them constantly and relentlessly, being careful at the same time but not too careful either, seems the way to go if you are to avoid the -17 or -22. You may still get the -17, -22 on a few occasions but hell, it sure is way better than 4-8 in a row. Skill? I’m not really sure...but hey man, that’s just me...
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