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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 6:04:17 GMT -5
I've reached the absolute nadir of gaming.
This could be a long rant, so if you dont like rants, stop reading (you freak).
This game is completely unplayable at the moment.
I started playing in late November last year and absolutely fell in love with it. I managed my hangar, made mistakes and grinded / bought the gold sales to get a full hangar and Ancilot and all that good stuff.
I did notice early on that when I went on a run of wins, pretty soon I was matched against MUCH tougher bots, but I took my beating.
I made it to E3 and was chuffed.
Since the event, actually the week before it, this has been a total shambles.
I do not blame tankers for this, nor whales, this is absolutely Pixonic's fault.
I accept that they need to make money, that is the over riding aim of their company. As I said above, I'm more than happy to pay for something I value. Why should I be entitled to play a polished article for free?
But I have mailed them telling them that I won't be spending anymore money on.the game until they balance it. I have never received a reply from them. Only once, when I cobgratulated them in the early days, immediately I got a response asking me to rate the app on Google and share on FB.
1. Your bots are insanely priced. Requesting €99 for a bot and claiming it's a sale is disgusting. That is the only word for it. Even Lancelot and Fury are overpriced. I still find it hard to fathom that people would spend €300+ on a bot. I mean, think about that. That's a weekend away somewhere nice.
I get the argument that people still pay it, so it's not too dear. But. It IS. Just because some people choose to pay that much money, doesn't mean that it's not overpriced or exceptionally greedy.
2. The Royale Thing actually upsets me more than anything else in the game. Why? Because it's the most blatant flat out deception there is. It is literally a scam. I've read posts on here (and we can assume many more didn't post) of people spending gold on these 'Lucky' games only to be suckered up. There is nothing random about these events and I will absolutely be reporting it to whatever body I can after this post. There is no need to explain what I mean here, we all know that it gives out the prizes in ascending order of value, but pretends you can win any 'randomly' item.
3. Shocktrains and dashes:
I actually don't have a problem with ST nor dashes per se. Most online games have elite OP items for big spenders. I can take being smacked down by MKII weapons by reminding myself that that player let's us all play. They fund Pixonic.
The problem I have, and the fundamental problem with the game, is that by engineering a MM league system that pits the new/poorer player against the veteran/richer one, you create a breeding ground for misery. This disparity between power is particular felt in this type of game : blowing the hell out of each other. Pixonic have stated numerous times that War Robots is a competitive game. Competitive. Indeed. Everything they do runs counter to this. For example, when you constantly put a Silver bot, say lvl 6 against maxed ST dashes then there is no competition. I've seen one Haechi bot destroy nine bots. Nine! That makes people angry, because fundamentally, people don't like unfairness. This more than anything is ruining the game, because this is the one thing we have no control over as players. There are subtler ways to empower payers.
4. Tanking: this is just a symptom of the previous problem. I don't actually have a problem with tankers because I understand completely why they do it. Fix the above problem and tanking should basically stop. Let's be honest, Pixonic arguably encourage the practice.
5. The events are a perfect example of the previous statement. Not only is the grind for Haechi pretty disturbing (the time involved is unhealthy), but the process practically requires some degree of tanking. So you have the introduction of a 'tanking form' coinciding with an event which requires tanking. I have no tolerance for BS, but that's what Pix is giving.
I'm angry because I've spent time and money on the game and it has real potential to be great- one of the best. I'm taking a break until the event ends because it is literally absurd at the moment. I'll log in for chests and that's it. I'll give it a week after that and then uninstall if needs be.
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Post by wildboar on Feb 17, 2018 6:20:01 GMT -5
Can't argue with what you said...
I have a slightly different angle because I have been playing longer and I feel I have invested a lot of time and remember the days before the Matchmaking BS ... tanking didn't exist ...
Seal clubbing did exist but it was a loophole that could have been fixed
I feel a little sad that such a great game is going down the 「dookie」ter ...
I agree Pix need to make money but they are taking the piss
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 6:39:47 GMT -5
Can't argue with what you said... I have a slightly different angle because I have been playing longer and I feel I have invested a lot of time and remember the days before the Matchmaking BS ... tanking didn't exist ... Seal clubbing did exist but it was a loophole that could have been fixed I feel a little sad that such a great game is going down the ?poo-poo?ter ... I agree Pix need to make money but they are taking the piss I did read that there was a 'hangar-based' system before the current MM? I'm curious as to why it was abandoned? I can only imagine how dejected you must feel :-( |
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Post by hyderier on Feb 17, 2018 7:01:15 GMT -5
2. The Royale Thing actually upsets me more than anything else in the game. Why? Because it's the most blatant flat out deception there is. It is literally a scam. I pretty much agree with everything you wrote, but I have to quote this here. So true. Despicable. |
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Post by hyderier on Feb 17, 2018 7:17:11 GMT -5
Can't argue with what you said... I have a slightly different angle because I have been playing longer and I feel I have invested a lot of time and remember the days before the Matchmaking BS ... tanking didn't exist ... Seal clubbing did exist but it was a loophole that could have been fixed I feel a little sad that such a great game is going down the ?poo-poo?ter ... I agree Pix need to make money but they are taking the piss I did read that there was a 'hangar-based' system before the current MM? I'm curious as to why it was abandoned? I can only imagine how dejected you must feel :-( Yeah, based on what you had in hangar, you got a hangar score. And then you got matched by MM by hangar score, pretty much identically as now by league score, except unlike league, current hangar score bracket, generally called "tier" by players, wasn't shown anywhere in the game. But the difference was, that just changing bots would change hangar score and you be immediately matched in a different tier. The way to calculate hangar score was fundamentally flawed, basically it took the most powerful bot in your hangar and ignored the rest, as well as ignoring the number of slots. This lead to so called Gepard clubbing. A hangar of 5 Gepards, mostly with Magnums and Aphids, at bot level 1 (Gepard has it's max speed already at level) and 3 weapons at level 9, had equal hangar score, as a newbie with Ag bots and weapons at level 4/4. You can imagine Gepard with 3 level 9 Magnums ripping through low level Ag bots with low level Ag weapons... Pix of course didn't fix this, because it provided the newbies incentive to spend money. But this also provided players ability to not advance. They could get a selection of 5 bots and weapons, and leave them at some upgrade levels they chose (generally so that every bot would have same hangar score value, to maximize their competitiveness at tier determined by most powerful bot), and be competitive and have fun (somewhere above the Gep clubbing tier, and maybe Boa/Rogatka clubbing tier...). This, comfortably staying in a single tier, is not good for whale spending. So, instead of fixing the hangar power calculation, Pix created the leagues, where players playing fairly would advance until they were basically faced with too good gear and would be losing too often. Except in this new model, those who didn't want to advance could control their league placement by tanking, which is rather horrible for the game. Tanking achieves same goal for Pix, that Gep clubbing achieved back in hangar MM era, so Pix has been about as effective at fixing that, as they were at Fixing hangar power calculation loopholes. Another method to incentivize player spending is of course having them destroyed by OP P2W gear like Dash bots, which is sort of like old Gep Clubbing, except there is no escape, no league level where playing would be based mostly on skill and only minimally on how much one pays. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 7:21:43 GMT -5
There is nothing random about these events and I will absolutely be reporting it to whatever body I can after this post. There is no need to explain what I mean here, we all know that it gives out the prizes in ascending order of value, but pretends you can win any 'randomly' item. To report and have some impact, Pix must provide, the probabilities distribution table for each event and the cumulative statistical data from the spins ,so far for each event. Then you can check if the expected gain is a fair one and if it's upheld by the random generator, but the problem is that we have all agreed to : pixonic.com/en/?termsPixonic may manage, regulate, control, modify or eliminate In-Service Content and/or Merchandise at any time, with or without notice.Avoid all games that you are not informed of the probs, return rate and integrity of repetition, unless it's strip poker. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 10:20:42 GMT -5
Given the old flawed MM system you explained, wouldn't a simple fix have been to total hangars based on weapon and bot levels?
So someone running:
Thunder/gust/Leo: 6/5/4/6/8 = 29
Could be matched as close to another 29 as possible at any given time:
Tarancilot : 5/5/10/10 = 30
Mk stuff would just carry on numerically:
Orkan Kuminhoe (sorry):
MkI 4/5/10 = 29 , where Mk basically means add 10.
This is an extremely simple system that could be implemented very quickly.
Then the MM could even try to just match 6 hangar totals against 6 hangar totals.
It's so simple, you could even have different competitions based on hangar points like 'Competition A open to max 200 pt hangars'.
This means all weapons and bots would become viable again.
Want to run your strongest bot ? An Orkan Haechi? Then you have to compromise by using that cobwebbed Cossack and oh let's see, you can't put any taran on it because you've levelled them too much-ah! Your Punisher will just have to do.
Of course the higher the competition limit (you could even have a top unlimited one) would have much better rewards, because people who have played and paid more deserve it.
Tell me that's not a fairer system?
Experienced players could still fight complete newbies, beat them by pure dint of skill, and get rewards appropriate to that standard, AND the new players would learn from the better players.
Squadding would be completely fixed by this.
Tanking would be COMPLETELY eliminated. What would be the point? You can't cheat maths, and nobody would be getting overpowered. It also means the whales would get rewarded with better rewards.
Wanna run an MK II Inquisitor in the low 50 pt competition? Then it has to be your only bot, you can't use it otherwise you'll go over there cap.
Players would have to be given the freedom play less bots regardless of their slot amounts.
Pix wouldn't lose any money as I can see.
The whole game would come down to skill.
People would invest in and play all of their bots and weapons , any company could be dipped in and out of.
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Post by amidf on Feb 17, 2018 10:38:50 GMT -5
Agree largely with OP; just want to make a couple points. Total hanger calc lets someone pair one super OP bot with 4 of the weakest. They might play out the game in the OP one and rack up the damage. The best system would give the most weight to the highest bot / weapon setup and diminishing weight to the second, third, etc.
We will never have that system again because it encouraged stagnation via tier camping.
The Royale game is random. But it has heavily weighted odds. You can tell by the color at the bottom of each card what the relative odds of each item are. It is almost, but not quite impossible to get a top tier item first. But it does happen occasionally that you will get an item from the second tier before one from the first, for example. The same odds color scheme is used in the Black Market.
My main problem with this is that the odds aren't indicated in the game, so many people have been misled. Second, the gold prices are not disclosed ahead of time. This has trapped people who just spent all their gold into paying RM for more or accepting a waste of their savings. Third, the card shuffle animation absolutely runs counter to the reality. If they shuffle the cards and then they stay in the same place, you have equal odds of picking any given card. That is what any reasonable person would conclude. I'm sure a judge would conclude the same if there were any justice in Pixonic's HQ country or way for the people to petition for justice.
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Post by hyderier on Feb 17, 2018 11:19:01 GMT -5
Given the old flawed MM system you explained, wouldn't a simple fix have been to total hangars based on weapon and bot levels? A good question. Answer is, of course, yes. Next question?  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 12:03:26 GMT -5
I suppose my next question is
(And this anger is directed at Pix)
Why the 「fluffernutter」 hasn't it 「fluffernutter」ing well 「fluffernutter」ing happened?!?!?
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Post by mobiuswr on Feb 17, 2018 13:42:14 GMT -5
I suppose my next question is (And this anger is directed at Pix) Why the ?fluffy bunny? hasn't it ?fluffy bunny?ing well ?fluffy bunny?ing happened?!?!? Well, Pixo promised this new MM would fix mag-gepard seal clubbing... and it did. Pixo promised the new (and simpler) MM would allow them to do cool things the old MM couldn't do..... it did, now they can charge $300 for a bot instead of $50. You may not think this is "cool" but Pixo certainly does. If you are looking for fair matches, I suggest you participate in Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ 's hangar X league. |
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Feb 18, 2018 0:46:11 GMT -5
Hangar X is Pix's attempt to kill 6 Pack dead and give players a taste of sweet, sweet L12 component crack for free, all in one fell swoop.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Feb 18, 2018 1:09:13 GMT -5
@withnailer
Yup. I hope you posted this same message in the game's Help page. I couldn't tell whether you were addressing the admins here in these non-PIXONIC owned or operated forums or what. But I certainly agree with everything that you stated. Mail.ru has effectively stolen my hanger from me, and a great many others, by making it impossible to play only the one and only game mode that I actually like.
The only problem with your hanger based system is the implementation of multiple hangers. Now tyere is the possiblity of 25 bots for a few players while others have less. And they get to choose which hanger they will use just before each match. One hanger could have all level 1 equipment while another has all Mk2 12. Which gets calculated as a match up? If both then one hanger is going to be far dominate while the other never has a chance. Still bad for the weaker players.
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Post by osang on Feb 18, 2018 2:54:14 GMT -5
Pixonic's greediness should be blame. I've played many mobile games but this game is now ridiculous. If only Pixonic brings back the old glory of hangar-based matchmaking before the League System introduced.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 9:10:16 GMT -5
' Total hanger calc lets someone pair one super OP bot with 4 of the weakest. They might play out the game in the OP one and rack up the damage.'
I agree with you, I did cover this earlier (the Inquisitor example). If they chose to use Inquisitor in a low cap game then that would probably be the only bot they could deploy. Multiple bots can still take out higher bots and this could actually make for more interesting games. Do I run my lvl 12 Rhino only or my two levl 6 Griffins (for example).
'We will never have that system again because it encouraged stagnation via tier camping.'
I hear you, but if there were multiple tiered competitions that you could dip in and put of at will , there would be no league camping. Perhaps tournament is the better word?
I should have said tournament sorry
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 9:17:39 GMT -5
"I hope you posted this same message in the game's Help page. I couldn't tell whether you were addressing the admins here in these non-PIXONIC owned or operated forums or what."
No way, I'm fully aware that these forums are not run by Pix. I have been coming here for advice and chats (and letting off steam). I would have deleted the app if it weren't for this life supporting forum! ?
"The only problem with your hanger based system is the implementation of multiple hangar ..
And they get to choose which hanger they will use just before each match ... Which gets calculated as a match up?"
A way to deal with this could be clicking into a tournament and THEN having to pick your hangar (rather than pre-loading screen). This would eliminate any multiple hangar issues.
(Sorry guys I don't know how to quote sections of your messages )
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Post by Danny Linguini on Feb 18, 2018 11:37:30 GMT -5
@withnailer Yup. I hope you posted this same message in the game's Help page. I couldn't tell whether you were addressing the admins here in these non-PIXONIC owned or operated forums or what. But I certainly agree with everything that you stated. Mail.ru has effectively stolen my hanger from me, and a great many others, by making it impossible to play only the one and only game mode that I actually like. The only problem with your hanger based system is the implementation of multiple hangers. Now tyere is the possiblity of 25 bots for a few players while others have less. And they get to choose which hanger they will use just before each match. One hanger could have all level 1 equipment while another has all Mk2 12. Which gets calculated as a match up? If both then one hanger is going to be far dominate while the other never has a chance. Still bad for the weaker players. This brings up a really good point. How can they possibly implement any kind of a hangar-based ranking system now wuth multiple hangars. I don't see how they could even combine hangar strength with the current league ranking now. No way, not gonna happen, just further proof that they like it just as it is. Everything they do now is targeting players willing to pay up big. They don't give a crap about free or moderate-pay players any more, only the deep-pocketed whales. We can complain to them all we want about how they've ruined the game, and I think I can safely promise you it's falling on deaf ears, because it's only ruined for the non-whales. Players who are willing and able to buy their way out of the misery Pixonic has created will do so, and that's all they care about now. You'll be hard-pressed to convince me otherwise. |
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Post by T34 on Feb 18, 2018 22:14:42 GMT -5
Pixonic have stated numerous times that War Robots is a competitive game. Competitive. Indeed. Everything they do runs counter to this. It is competitive I suppose. But its like an amateur boxing or wrestling meet where everyone is allowed to access and use high priced performance enhancement drugs that are only sold by Pixonic. Maybe Pixonic copied the model from the Russian state controlled doping program ? 
And the MM and multi hangers help even further by constantly transferring competitors between weight classes and ensuring that all competitors compete in the heavy weights division within a short period of time where they really need to consider the use of illicit substances on offer.
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