|
Post by boomsplat on Jan 25, 2017 0:08:29 GMT -5
zman - just want to thank you for all the heavy lifting you are doing to explain what is going on. I feel like you are the Pixo tech help and customer service section all in one. I think you are doing such a good job that some are mistaking you for a Pixo employee and starting to rant at you. Thank you!
|
|
Buck
Destrier
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women!
Posts: 21
Karma: 5
Pilot name: UgotFdintheA
Platform: Android
League: Bronze
Favorite robot: Cossack
|
Post by Buck on Jan 25, 2017 0:46:32 GMT -5
Admittedly, I'm only a few weeks into this game, so still rather "newb" in many areas. Under the old MM, I absently tried several tiers before researching that system. After trying a few robots, I found the light weight models more to my liking for one primary reason: the action was more fast-paced, the robots significantly quicker than heavier models I tried. Even the medium weight robots felt so sluggish, not including the gold/WS bots I haven't been able to afford to try. This in mind, I ran the mid-bronze tier, light 4/6, during upgrades to high-bronze. This lead to many enjoyable battles that were mostly balanced, the quality of equipment even to all and skill deciding the victor.
Under the new MM information and from what I've seen, weight class no longer decides division, but rather, if you're not good with a heavy hanger, you'll drop until your superior equipment overwhelms your opponent's (I.E: light weight pilots). This eliminates skill as the equipment is simply outclassed, as well as, renders light weight robots obsolete as heavy weight robots are regular throughout matches, rather than separated logically. I'm trying to remain optimistic that the light weight "speed matches" aren't dead, but I have yet to see the matching not chaotic; to the degree, my platoon is full light versus a majority of heavy opponents, resulting in a severally imbalanced competition.
I may just be misunderstanding the information, but it seems light weight robots have been reduced to rush in and get stomped, or almost worse still, sandbag behind with the slower robots which contradicts the single advantage piloting light weights: speed.
|
|
|
Post by blastronaut on Jan 25, 2017 0:55:56 GMT -5
Well, I dropped my elo score to the basement just to see if i could. Yes, I was running Galahads and Raijins against destriers and cossacks. I'm trying to get my score back up. Currently on a 40 match win streak and still seeing mostly lights, few mediums, and very rarely a natasha or leo. Nothing even close to competitive. Your hangar doesnt really matter with the new MM. Well first, shame on you haha! How many games did it take to tank you're elo? 40 game win streak, damn. Have you seen the level of competition increasing slowly? What level are your bots? What level is the current competition? I have a feeling that the mechanism for adding to your Elo is reduced in scale at the bottom. Glad Pix has already acknowledged this problem and I hope the patch the Elo tanking loophole soon. I have experiments that prove hanger strength matters, but it only matters when your Elo is set. What you've shown is that it is possible to drive your Elo so low that hanger strength becomes temporarily irrelevant. And certain people are going to abuse this, I witnessed RUIN clan doing it today. Keep count of of those games and let me know how many it takes I get back to normal, or chanllenging games. Thanks for posting. Hi zman. It took me 40 games to tank my elo to the bottom. And right after my 40 match win streak I hit the churn of very unbalanced squads. Some super light bots and some that were closer to my level. The matches now are competitive but I'm generally top point scorer by 200-400k I run a hanger of bot lvl 4-6 weapons lvl 8-9. Griffin, Galahad, Raijin, Leo, Gepard.
|
|
|
Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 25, 2017 2:33:44 GMT -5
So, after finally finding time to play for about a solid hour, it's turned to hell on iOS for me. It's not equipment disparities, it's being too good and too skilled for what little I can afford. I'm losing to Brit bots, Rhinos, and Gekkos. Yes, I said Gekkos. I'm currently saving up for my 1st WSP bot... a Carnage! I spent all my Au on a 5th slot and an Orkan, I haven't had Time to earn more gold than that. My opponents all have weapon levels within +3 of mine. 3 out of 5 random teammates are stupid and should just stop playing already. My enemies, on the other hand, are always well coordinated and can cap a damn beacon. When I'm finally blessed with crap enemies or a capable team, I take top damage, MoC, or both. When I lose, I either take bottom damage with top captures, or just top damage and the rest of my team may as well have not bothered.
It's bad enough that I can usually tell if a match is won or lost within 4 minutes of play, often before my first bot has even been destroyed. I have resorted to bailing on hopeless matches. It's that or throw my $800 tablet at the wall while screaming vulgarities about the idiots I'm being forced to team up with. I'm not going to 「fluffernutter」 around and waste another 5 minutes of my life watching hopeless idiots continue to fail, so... rage quitting is the end result of the last 7 out of 10 matches. And please don't bother accusing me of betraying the team, if I'm ready to quit a match like that, it's because it's already obviously hopeless.
This new MM seems to think I am a God, and I don't like it. I have dropped from a 70% win rate to less than 48% in the last hour, and the idiots and arseholes never stop. My teammates are getting worse, but my opponents are staying the same. If this is the "minor" yo-yo effect that others have described with so-called Elo systems, then no wonder people are cussing up a storm about it. The last hour has sucked worse than slipping on sour owl feces, and my ego has been seriously bruised.
What doesn't kill me can only make me stronger. The only true death in a game is to stop trying, I'm not dead yet. Tomorrow is another day.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 3:58:33 GMT -5
It's utter ?poo-poo?... I'm 5/8 mediums. One hit from the range guys and half my health is gone. Even if we win, I'm going to be at the bottom of the heap. Every 2nd or third game is like this, and the other ones are still uphill battles against endless streams of enemy heavy bots. It's not particularly enjoyable.
|
|
|
Post by SlowReflexes on Jan 25, 2017 4:08:13 GMT -5
Started playing my secondary account, hadn't done that since MM changed.
I had a HS hangar. First match I saw Vits and Golems. Second match I saw really weak heavies. Third match I got pounded to paste by a 5 man clan squad with near maxed hangars.
From there it got strange and inconsistent. Not fun.
I did get to play with a guy from wik2, so that was cool.
|
|
Buck
Destrier
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women!
Posts: 21
Karma: 5
Pilot name: UgotFdintheA
Platform: Android
League: Bronze
Favorite robot: Cossack
|
Post by Buck on Jan 25, 2017 6:50:59 GMT -5
Getting pretty old quick. I'm still waiting for this averaging out people have reported, but I've yet to see anything different from the screenshot. The heavy pilots on my team literally hid, probably in an attempt to tank their rating, as mentioned in a previous post. At this point, I'm wondering how new player retention is going to be affected, ultra-light weights versus tanked heavy weights does not bode well for keeping potential customers. Is there going to be a buffing of the light weight class to better compensate for the constant matchup of heavy weight opponents, I wonder? The gap now makes the light class seemingly obsolete in the game play. I'm trying to be patient, but eliminating the light weight playability is going to kill the game for me, and maybe, many others.
|
|
|
Post by zman on Jan 25, 2017 8:32:04 GMT -5
zman - just want to thank you for all the heavy lifting you are doing to explain what is going on. I feel like you are the Pixo tech help and customer service section all in one. I think you are doing such a good job that some are mistaking you for a Pixo employee and starting to rant at you. Thank you! Thanks. There is a lot of hate and frustration out there towards a crazy sporadic change. I'm just doing my best to help since Pix utterly dropped the ball and selling this change. All it would have taken were a message on loggin, a. One in the Ap store, a Facebook comment etc and this could be much better. Well first, shame on you haha! How many games did it take to tank you're elo? 40 game win streak, damn. Have you seen the level of competition increasing slowly? What level are your bots? What level is the current competition? I have a feeling that the mechanism for adding to your Elo is reduced in scale at the bottom. Glad Pix has already acknowledged this problem and I hope the patch the Elo tanking loophole soon. I have experiments that prove hanger strength matters, but it only matters when your Elo is set. What you've shown is that it is possible to drive your Elo so low that hanger strength becomes temporarily irrelevant. And certain people are going to abuse this, I witnessed RUIN clan doing it today. Keep count of of those games and let me know how many it takes I get back to normal, or chanllenging games. Thanks for posting. Hi zman. It took me 40 games to tank my elo to the bottom. And right after my 40 match win streak I hit the churn of very unbalanced squads. Some super light bots and some that were closer to my level. The matches now are competitive but I'm generally top point scorer by 200-400k I run a hanger of bot lvl 4-6 weapons lvl 8-9. Griffin, Galahad, Raijin, Leo, Gepard. Gotcha, so the mark is roughly 40 games for your Elo to hit rock bottom and to climb up. I im wish I knew how they were calculating it. It is 40 games for all players etc... Thanks for the feedback. With any luck luck will put out a fix for this soon. 200 teammates may have gotten screwed on the way down, their Elo getting dropped a bit. 240 opponents may have gotten their Elo unnecessarily buffed. 200 teammates then may get an unecessar bump in elo and loose out on chances at rewards on the way up. 240 opponents may have their Elo's dropped unecessarily on the way down, and get the frustration of seeing something that obviously outclasses them. May, that was a bunch of uncertainty added to the system, that poor MM! Come on Pix, add the rule I addressed of no rewards or Slo adjustment if you leave a match before 4 min.
|
|
|
Post by Blurred Vision on Jan 25, 2017 8:55:05 GMT -5
It's utter ?poo-poo?... I'm 5/8 mediums. One hit from the range guys and half my health is gone. Even if we win, I'm going to be at the bottom of the heap. Every 2nd or third game is like this, and the other ones are still uphill battles against endless streams of enemy heavy bots. It's not particularly enjoyable. I honestly feel for you; and I can relate. Welcome to the Hell that I and all mid-level iOS users have been living in/with for the past week.
|
|
|
Post by Trogon on Jan 25, 2017 9:30:05 GMT -5
I have to say, after a week, iOS matchmaking may be getting slightly better, but is still no fun. It is rare that I'm in a match that feels even, and when they're not even, I'm usually getting clobbered. When I do win, it's because I'm grouped with bots that are 3-5 levels above me, and I usually score 5th or 6th, which is still no fun, because I don't really feel like I'm contributing anything. Strangely, this has not been my experience on Android, which almost seems like it's a completely different MM than iOS. I know others have had similar bad experiences on Android, though.
At this point, I am joining the ranks of those on iOS that say if this doesn't get better soon, I'm just not going to play on iOS anymore.
|
|
|
Post by googleme on Jan 25, 2017 10:52:45 GMT -5
I play to win. I do not play to capture the most beacons or do the most damage but do what is needed to win the game. I play to win every game.
That being said - why would I pay any $ if the MM system will just keep me at 50% wins?
I would be just as happy running 4/4 as 10/10. I will still win 50% of the time. Pixonic changed the MM to get people to send more money but they have done the opposite. Players will spend money and realize that it does not help home win more games, it just gets them tougher games and players with better bots. They will still win 50%.
If Pixonic wants us to pay to more but only will let us win 50% they need to have other incentives built into the game. Right now to much is focused on winning. They should emphasize ways for everyone to be better pilots. Better pilots only get rewarded by tougher games.
|
|
lordevilbajskorv
Destrier
Posts: 13
Karma: 4
Pilot name: Lord Bajskorv
Platform: iOS
League: Gold
Favorite robot: Bulgasari
|
Post by lordevilbajskorv on Jan 25, 2017 12:19:40 GMT -5
I have played this game since spring 2015, so close to two years. Here is my take. Everybody starts from scratch and with the same goals; to strive for level 30. In order to get there you need to level up your slots, bots and weapons. During this process you will find your playing preference and mix of bots and weapons. You will most likely feel around a bit and eventually become a knife fighter, a sniper, etc or a mix of those. You will get better at playing and acquier a fitting hangar so once you reach level 30 you will have level 12 bots and level 12 weapons or close to at least.
The frustrating part is that it takes so loong to level up bots and weapons. Meanwhile you will have to live with what you have. To speed things up you can pay cash for time and upgrades. I was not aware of the wiki page until a year into playing. Maybe I had done things differently if I had some more insights into damage dynamics, very likely actually. However I see that some people, perhaps many people, over complicate things and try to "out-think" how to "win". I also can't really understand why you would want to stay at certain levels in this game or tweak hangars to earn more faster. Patience is all that is required.
When I reached level 30 and had a strong hangar I felt a bit cheated. "Was there no more than this?" "What happens now?" Well then happened the plasma weapons, the workshops, the brit bots, etc. Clans were introduced, events were launched.
I don't think the match maker was touched until spring 2016. This was also when we started to see cheaters I think. Around this time the seal clubbers came out and made life sour for beginners. Hell and fury was unleashed on Pix and their seemingly inability to get to grips with cheats and cheaters. Pix were also heavily criticized for not being able to fix the seal clubbing issue. Pix have fixed the cheating issues and I believe that they will manage to overcome the seal clubbers. However it would make life so much easier for all of us if players were not cheating. The new seal clubber strategy is cheating. As long as we have cheaters Pix will tweak the match maker. They will also do it to make things interesting to us who have reached the top tier.
I don't think I would have continued to play War Robots if nothing had changed after having reached the top tier. I want to thank Pix for producing a great game and continuing making it the best game out there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 12:28:47 GMT -5
I play to win. I do not play to capture the most beacons or do the most damage but do what is needed to win the game. I play to win every game. That being said - why would I pay any $ if the MM system will just keep me at 50% wins? I would be just as happy running 4/4 as 10/10. I will still win 50% of the time. Pixonic changed the MM to get people to send more money but they have done the opposite. Players will spend money and realize that it does not help home win more games, it just gets them tougher games and players with better bots. They will still win 50%. If Pixonic wants us to pay to more but only will let us win 50% they need to have other incentives built into the game. Right now to much is focused on winning. They should emphasize ways for everyone to be better pilots. Better pilots only get rewarded by tougher games. I assume this is why we hear rumblings about a "league" structure - if higher leagues provide better rewards, then there is your motivation to advance. The difficulty is that if it is based on your Elo rating, then getting pushed out of the top of your old league (where you were doing well and raking in rewards) into the very bottom of the next league (where you are the little kid on the block) may actually result in a net reduction in your rewards, not an improvement. Pix would have to think very carefully about that issue before they implemented something or you might see a lot of ranking manipulation going on by players at the top of their respective leagues.
|
|
|
Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 25, 2017 12:43:33 GMT -5
I know I make a lot of comparisons between War Robots and Overwatch, but in spite of their glaring differences, there are a lot of things they have in common. Not in the least of which being 6v6 Point-Dominance style CTF games, but they now also have performance based rating systems in common. I bring this up because of all the vitriol being flung about lately. War Robots is going through some growing pains at the moment, true, but this is just the beginning, which makes things very turbulent and often frustrating. We don't have it so bad, check out the salt mines on Overwatch's dedicated competitive forums, linked below. Things could be much, much worse, but just as Overwatch has struggled mightily against cheaters and exploiters, so too are the much maligned Devs of Pixonic. Get your eye bleach handy: us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/22813934/If nothing else, I hope reading all of THAT garbage helps somebody out there realize that we are not alone, the struggle is real.
|
|
|
Post by boomsplat on Jan 25, 2017 13:46:33 GMT -5
Just finished up a series of squad matches last night and today running my H6/9 line up and for the first time, having 5-6 clan members. We also played a number of matches with 3. Our top guy is usually a10/12 or 12/12 pilot but most of us have L9-10 weps. The matches were really good. In most, the red team had a 12/12 pilot and then the rest were a mix like us. We ran across some squads from top clans and their 4 trident furies smoked us but that was to be expected. Only in 1 match did I feel like we were unbalanced in our favor and stomped on a random squad headed up by a Pro Star 12/12 player but I didn't get a chance to check their levels (my apologies if it was any of you that my 9/9/5 trident fury melted - and you all melted fast so I realized you were lower level). Some of it was that we are playing non peak hours this morning....but our line ups are better balanced and we know what to expect. But the matches are definitely really good overall and we had fun running as a squad - that has not happened in awhile. Cheers
|
|
|
Post by boomsplat on Jan 25, 2017 13:57:30 GMT -5
I play to win. I do not play to capture the most beacons or do the most damage but do what is needed to win the game. I play to win every game. That being said - why would I pay any $ if the MM system will just keep me at 50% wins? I would be just as happy running 4/4 as 10/10. I will still win 50% of the time. Pixonic changed the MM to get people to send more money but they have done the opposite. Players will spend money and realize that it does not help home win more games, it just gets them tougher games and players with better bots. They will still win 50%. If Pixonic wants us to pay to more but only will let us win 50% they need to have other incentives built into the game. Right now to much is focused on winning. They should emphasize ways for everyone to be better pilots. Better pilots only get rewarded by tougher games. I assume this is why we hear rumblings about a "league" structure - if higher leagues provide better rewards, then there is your motivation to advance. The difficulty is that if it is based on your Elo rating, then getting pushed out of the top of your old league (where you were doing well and raking in rewards) into the very bottom of the next league (where you are the little kid on the block) may actually result in a net reduction in your rewards, not an improvement. Pix would have to think very carefully about that issue before they implemented something or you might see a lot of ranking manipulation going on by players at the top of their respective leagues. But it was the same thing we did when we played in the old tiers....you kinda knew what bot/wep levels would move you up so you upgraded weps in the background and tested the waters. I kind of see it happening the same way now but there is actually an incentive to go up vs just the expectation. If you game it by playing at the top the next lower level, I would think your performance rating going up on a sustained basis would push you into the next league until you sink back down...at some point you slap on the better weps and bots and stay up in that next league where there are better rewards....I would think the rewards may be somewhat close at that point as the incentive to keep climbing and working upwards. guess we'll find out more.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 14:07:52 GMT -5
guess we'll find out more. Or not. My will to continue playing against uphill odds in every battle is starting to fade.
|
|
|
Post by amoebastudios on Jan 25, 2017 14:17:24 GMT -5
That is a great blog post from Pixonic. Thanks for sharing that.
|
|
|
Post by zman on Jan 25, 2017 14:26:11 GMT -5
guess we'll find out more. Or not. My will to continue playing against uphill odds in every battle is starting to fade. Is it really that much of an uphill battle? What is your winrate under the new MM? Are you placing in the top three on the winning team in roughly 1/4th of your matches? If so, you could very well be sitting right where you need to, your impressive skill more than making up for your mediocre hanger. And by definition, that wouldn't really be an uphill battle. Of course you'd still see the occasional very strong hanger that was being sorted up, but is the median opponent a viable challenge for you?
|
|
|
Post by buzzard on Jan 25, 2017 14:27:18 GMT -5
That is a great blog post from Pixonic. Thanks for sharing that. I am looking all through the thread and I can't find a blog link....Can you link it or quote the link?
|
|
|
Post by boomsplat on Jan 25, 2017 14:36:22 GMT -5
guess we'll find out more. Or not. My will to continue playing against uphill odds in every battle is starting to fade. Three days into it on IOS and I was right where you were....hating Pixo for what they did to me and the others. Getting my butt kicked by high powered players and squads and unsure of what the heck was going on. Plus I had no idea of what the new system was going to do as Pixo was silent despite sending out all kinds of crap about the new event and doing all kinds of fun stuff with video capture. I was royally pissed. Now Day 8 and I'm having some good matches and getting back into the game. The new league system gives me some idea of what will happen but Pixo releases info on their own time. My clan buddies and I are able to squad again and only get our rears handed to us 40% of the time which is a lot better than days 1-6. I'm back to placing 2nd or 3rd and sometimes 1st in matches in damage so silver is getting better. I figured out my upgrades that will balance my hanger as I transition out of the old tiering strategy and move bot levels up to match weps (only 23 more upgrades in 30 days to get this done) There is nothing we can do except keep grinding. And have some faith it will get better because the game really is fun when it settles down....that is just the mystery on when it will settle down for each pilot as the answer just seems different for unknown reasons. Keep the faith KingKull.
|
|
|
Post by amoebastudios on Jan 25, 2017 14:39:07 GMT -5
That is a great blog post from Pixonic. Thanks for sharing that. I am looking all through the thread and I can't find a blog link....Can you link it or quote the link? warrobots/new-matchmaking-what-it-is-all-about-and-whats-next-69698fcc7929#.u9a6lye86" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">medium.com/ warrobots/new-matchmaking-what-it-is-all-about-and-whats-next-69698fcc7929#.u9a6lye86
|
|
|
Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 25, 2017 14:43:50 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 14:56:27 GMT -5
Or not. My will to continue playing against uphill odds in every battle is starting to fade. Is it really that much of an uphill battle? What is your winrate under the new MM? Are you placing in the top three on the winning team in roughly 1/4th of your matches? If so, you could very well be sitting right where you need to, your impressive skill more than making up for your mediocre hanger. And by definition, that wouldn't really be an uphill battle. Of course you'd still see the occasional very strong hanger that was being sorted up, but is the median opponent a viable challenge for you? I'm at 54% wins, down from 88% prior to the change. Damage is around 375k - I'm sure this is part of my problem... I can score top 1-3 when we lose, which probably isn't worth 「dookie」 other than inflating my rating. Here's the 3rd ranked scoring opponent player from my last match (just 5 mins ago): 7/8 Carnage, 11/9 Leo, 10/9 Golem, 9/8 Stalker. Not one bot on the enemy team has a level lower than 6. Most are 8+. The top guy is running a full hangar of 8+/10+ wsp & Au bots including a Carnage with level 12 tridents... though his average damage isn't much more than mine even though he scored 650k+ in this match. The hard reality is this match was one of the more "reasonable" I've had today. I've been hammered down by the 10+/10+ crowd repeatedly last night & this am. It's not about "rising to the challenge" at this point, it's just becoming an exercise in frustration.
|
|
|
Post by boomsplat on Jan 25, 2017 15:05:25 GMT -5
Is it really that much of an uphill battle? What is your winrate under the new MM? Are you placing in the top three on the winning team in roughly 1/4th of your matches? If so, you could very well be sitting right where you need to, your impressive skill more than making up for your mediocre hanger. And by definition, that wouldn't really be an uphill battle. Of course you'd still see the occasional very strong hanger that was being sorted up, but is the median opponent a viable challenge for you? I'm at 54% wins, down from 88% prior to the change. Damage is around 375k - I'm sure this is part of my problem... I can score top 1-3 when we lose, which probably isn't worth ?poo-poo? other than inflating my rating. Here's the 3rd ranked scoring opponent player from my last match (just 5 mins ago): 7/8 Carnage, 11/9 Leo, 10/9 Golem, 9/8 Stalker. Not one bot on the enemy team has a level lower than 6. Most are 8+. The top guy is running a full hangar of 8+/10+ wsp & Au bots including a Carnage with level 12 tridents... though his average damage isn't much more than mine even though he scored 650k+ in this match. The hard reality is this match was one of the more "reasonable" I've had today. I've been hammered down by the 10+/10+ crowd repeatedly last night & this am. It's not about "rising to the challenge" at this point, it's just becoming an exercise in frustration. Your problem is the one I keep thinking about...coat tail riding on stronger players that get reflected in your performance scores (not meant as an insult at all). I'm going to go out on a limb to speculate.... It seems like you are caught in some break point in the system - what might be a league bracket transition in the new system (just pure speculation on my part). Strong enough to beat the pilots ranked near you but not strong enough to do well on a sustained basis with the pilots just above you. What is missing from the experience is that the reward structure is flat....in the future, your reward for playing against those higher pilots would be better than winning against the lower players in terms of silver. Since the structure is not in place, you are getting shafted on both sides of the equation and having a lousy experience, especially with silver. I have nothing to support any of this except for the crappy game experience you keep having and thinking through all of what Pixo has said the last 4 months on this new MM.
|
|
|
Post by zman on Jan 25, 2017 15:27:43 GMT -5
Is it really that much of an uphill battle? What is your winrate under the new MM? Are you placing in the top three on the winning team in roughly 1/4th of your matches? If so, you could very well be sitting right where you need to, your impressive skill more than making up for your mediocre hanger. And by definition, that wouldn't really be an uphill battle. Of course you'd still see the occasional very strong hanger that was being sorted up, but is the median opponent a viable challenge for you? I'm at 54% wins, down from 88% prior to the change. Damage is around 375k - I'm sure this is part of my problem... I can score top 1-3 when we lose, which probably isn't worth ?poo-poo? other than inflating my rating. Here's the 3rd ranked scoring opponent player from my last match (just 5 mins ago): 7/8 Carnage, 11/9 Leo, 10/9 Golem, 9/8 Stalker. Not one bot on the enemy team has a level lower than 6. Most are 8+. The top guy is running a full hangar of 8+/10+ wsp & Au bots including a Carnage with level 12 tridents... though his average damage isn't much more than mine even though he scored 650k+ in this match. The hard reality is this match was one of the more "reasonable" I've had today. I've been hammered down by the 10+/10+ crowd repeatedly last night & this am. It's not about "rising to the challenge" at this point, it's just becoming an exercise in frustration. Would you mind posting picks of the final score, and a pick of each hanger in the match for me? I'd like to look at each of those hangers from a match like that, see if it makes any sense to me. If its consistent we might get an idea of where things are at. Remember, the top guy is often someone being sorted up, so what matters is the point the median hangers in the battle are settling around. The most likely explanation is that with your play frequency you're experiencing a compacting of the Elos as they work themselves up. In retrospect I had a solid two days of being in that predicament, now by a week in to the new MM I really no longer feel like that. In fact yesterday and today I feel like I'm a touch too strong for most of my matches and just surrounded by incompetent allies. Whereas a day or two before I'd think I was having an awesome game to find out I was 3rd or 4th in damage when the average was hanger +2. Now, it is closer to hanger +1 for me. I'm at 54% wins, down from 88% prior to the change. Damage is around 375k - I'm sure this is part of my problem... I can score top 1-3 when we lose, which probably isn't worth ?poo-poo? other than inflating my rating. Here's the 3rd ranked scoring opponent player from my last match (just 5 mins ago): 7/8 Carnage, 11/9 Leo, 10/9 Golem, 9/8 Stalker. Not one bot on the enemy team has a level lower than 6. Most are 8+. The top guy is running a full hangar of 8+/10+ wsp & Au bots including a Carnage with level 12 tridents... though his average damage isn't much more than mine even though he scored 650k+ in this match. The hard reality is this match was one of the more "reasonable" I've had today. I've been hammered down by the 10+/10+ crowd repeatedly last night & this am. It's not about "rising to the challenge" at this point, it's just becoming an exercise in frustration. Your problem is the one I keep thinking about...coat tail riding on stronger players that get reflected in your performance scores (not meant as an insult at all). I'm going to go out on a limb to speculate.... It seems like you are caught in some break point in the system - what might be a league bracket transition in the new system (just pure speculation on my part). Strong enough to beat the pilots ranked near you but not strong enough to do well on a sustained basis with the pilots just above you. What is missing from the experience is that the reward structure is flat....in the future, your reward for playing against those higher pilots would be better than winning against the lower players in terms of silver. Since the structure is not in place, you are getting shafted on both sides of the equation and having a lousy experience, especially with silver. I have nothing to support any of this except for the crappy game experience you keep having and thinking through all of what Pixo has said the last 4 months on this new MM. More than likely it is indicative of a compacting of the Hanger+Elo Scores as they work themselves up. With what would normally be a reasonable spread to search from for the MM, because a much more noticeable difference in power. Kull is also playing enough to keep his Elo as high as it can, basically riding this compacted wave up. I feel like I had a couple of days of this and it got even better for me yesterday and today. For me I'd say MM is now consistently better than the old one, now matches are no where near as easy, but significantly better.
|
|
|
Post by lephturn on Jan 25, 2017 15:50:55 GMT -5
True, he probabaly is logging a fair amount. I'd appreciate you letting me know if I'm right and your matches settle down and more consistently closer to your hanger level. I'm thinking 40 games in less than two days would be enough to get your Elo up and ride the high end of the wave, I know I was still seeing people with your stats the second say somewhat. The majority of my opponents were closer, but some hangers like that were sneaking in. What is the highest Bot and weapon combination? Is that 10 on the 6? What are the other weapons? I'm thinking with your skill and 6/9 Med hanger your median opponent will probabaly be like a 7/7-8/8 Heavy. Patton 6 - 8/8/8/8 Patton 4 - 10/8/8/7 Vityaz 5 - 6hvy/8/10 Vityaz 5 - 6hvy/8/10 Rogatha 4 - 8/8 I can run all level 6 heavies with the same weapons and it doesn't seem to change much. All the 6/5 and 6/6 heavies I used to see under the old system are gone - heavies are in the 7-10 range with a weapon ranges similar to mine. Level 11 and 12 bots make a showing in most matches but usually only a few at a time. Carnage, Fujin, Galahad, Golem are the main med bots and lights are beacon grabbers or aphids geps. Except for geps, bot levels are higher than weapon level (e.g 10/7 carnage). Have a bit of a win streak and this all turns into 10/11 bots and trident fest. You are running level 10 weapons. You will face hangars of 10/10, 11/10 etc. with that. It doesn't seem to matter what level your bots are much. Load one single level 10 weapon and you will face hangars full of level 10 weapons. Combine that with a good win rate and you'll face 12/12 bots run by less successful players. Long term this is good - weapons levelled way over the bots was a clubbing issue. The days of having the system average weapon and bot levels so you could run low level bots and some lower level weapons to face opponents with lower level equipment are gone. If you want to have better matchups you have to take those level 10 weapons off. Ideally swap for level 6 weapons across the board and push the bots up to 6 to match. Then you'll see much better matches. The other alternative is to level up your bots to say 8 or 10. I was running 2-3 lights and mediums and level 6-7 weapons. I got completely hammered until I moved to 2 Griffins with 6/6 and 6/5 weapons. Now I'm levelling up one of my Geps, a Patton, a Boa, and a Cossack. When I get them all to 6 or 7 I'll be facing hangars that match my own much more closely based on what I am seeing now.
|
|
|
Post by buzzard on Jan 25, 2017 16:06:46 GMT -5
Patton 6 - 8/8/8/8 Patton 4 - 10/8/8/7 Vityaz 5 - 6hvy/8/10 Vityaz 5 - 6hvy/8/10 Rogatha 4 - 8/8 I can run all level 6 heavies with the same weapons and it doesn't seem to change much. All the 6/5 and 6/6 heavies I used to see under the old system are gone - heavies are in the 7-10 range with a weapon ranges similar to mine. Level 11 and 12 bots make a showing in most matches but usually only a few at a time. Carnage, Fujin, Galahad, Golem are the main med bots and lights are beacon grabbers or aphids geps. Except for geps, bot levels are higher than weapon level (e.g 10/7 carnage). Have a bit of a win streak and this all turns into 10/11 bots and trident fest. You are running level 10 weapons. You will face hangars of 10/10, 11/10 etc. with that. It doesn't seem to matter what level your bots are much. Load one single level 10 weapon and you will face hangars full of level 10 weapons. Combine that with a good win rate and you'll face 12/12 bots run by less successful players. Long term this is good - weapons levelled way over the bots was a clubbing issue. The days of having the system average weapon and bot levels so you could run low level bots and some lower level weapons to face opponents with lower level equipment are gone. If you want to have better matchups you have to take those level 10 weapons off. Ideally swap for level 6 weapons across the board and push the bots up to 6 to match. Then you'll see much better matches. The other alternative is to level up your bots to say 8 or 10. I was running 2-3 lights and mediums and level 6-7 weapons. I got completely hammered until I moved to 2 Griffins with 6/6 and 6/5 weapons. Now I'm levelling up one of my Geps, a Patton, a Boa, and a Cossack. When I get them all to 6 or 7 I'll be facing hangars that match my own much more closely based on what I am seeing now. Based on all the data so far, I dont think that is accurate (Im sure Zman will jump in). My my highest weapon level is 8 (on a light) and I am consistently facing 8/10 + as a median (on a heavy). If I change out my hangar and I am still facing 8/10 +. I say consistently because I have played a couple hundred matches since the MM dropped on iOS. This is my norm at the moment.
|
|
|
Post by whatttupG on Jan 25, 2017 16:31:34 GMT -5
Nice write up.
Interesting thread, interesting responses.
Leaving game until this works again, my experience is so poor I'm throwing in the towel, spare the quitter complainer speeches, nobody wants to read that.
Hopefully I get an alert when 2.6 is out, I'll come back to see if my lose rate is still 99%.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 16:32:35 GMT -5
|
|