Discussion: Tempest Natty
Nov 13, 2017 10:47:24 GMT -5
Pvt. Pickle, metalsmasher12, and 1 more like this
Post by frunobulax on Nov 13, 2017 10:47:24 GMT -5
I bought a second Tempest on my FB Gameroom account, and am levelling a Natty for it. And thought "hey, why not Punishers instead of Molots?" So, I started to figure out some damage values and found some surprising results. That I'm now sharing with you 
I mean, Molot Tempest seems like the natural thing to do. The same reload cycles, and 2 Molots have just a bit less power than 1 Tempest, so that build has almost the power of a Tempest Fury. However, Punishers have 103k cycle damage compared to the 45k of Molots (and 114k of a Tempest). Punishers are useless outside of 500m, and Molots are probably better in the 350m-500m range. But, I'm often up against Ancile builds, especially builds with superior level (my hangar is 9/7.5, and I'm up against many level 10-12 whale Ancilots), where some extra damage potential would come in very handy. In fact, there are many matchups where I wish my 9/8 Punisher Ancilot had a bit more ammo.
2 Tempests combine for 228k max damage. 2 Molots have 90k, 2 Punishers have 206k. Of course, damage is highly dependant on the distance, I'd assume that we have only 1/4th damage at 700m for Molots/Tempests. A Molot has a burst damage of 4k DPS (in accelerated firing), a Punisher 5.8k, Tempest 10.2k. (Whoa. Tempests are getting a buff in the next release? Really?)
A bonus from FB Gameroom is that you can define a weapon group (unfortunately only 1), that you can fire with your right mouse button. So you can lay either both Tempests or both light weapons on one weapon slot. Obviously, outside 500m you'll want to fire only the two Tempests. Within 500m it can make sense to use only the Punishers, say if you are at 450m and want to drop an Ancile, you can do that using only your Punishers and save Tempest ammo for the time the Ancile is down.
So let's crunch the numbers. The beef in the setup are the Tempests, obviously. All at level 12 assumed.
Both builds are clearly mixed range builds. I don't see them as pure midrange/longrange builds, for the simple fact: They rock at point blank range. Numbers, again.
At range, Tempest Natty is good, but not outstanding. A Zeus Fury delivers 7.8k cycle DPS. I'd figure at 550m a Tempest Molot Natty does ~9k DPS in burst firing (assuming 30% of the bullets hit), but only ~4k cycle DPS.
Upgrades: A Tempest is 64 million and 17 days to level 12. 2 Molots cost exactly the same, and Punishers and Molots also have the same costs.
Bottom line:
A Tempest Natty is not a traditional midranger. It's a versatile build that should be played like a Scourge build, where the player tries to stay out the targets range. (Which is of course much more difficult for a Natty than for a Scourge Bulgasari.) But this build can also deal considerable damage from close range. I guess the choice between Molots and Punishers comes down to personal preference. In an environment of maxed hangars, the best choice is probably still the Tempest Fury. But in a resource constrained environment with a kind-of-fresh hangar (~level 8 on my FB account), it is a very interesting option to spend 50 million and 14 days on a Mk2 Natty.
As a pure midranger, I'd probably go for Zeus Gekko instead. But I really like the damage potential from the Tempests, and therefore declare this build as my new favorite Natty setup
Check out my Natty Analysis, too.
Addendum (as of Dec 28th, 2017): I have run this build for several months now, and it has become one of my go-to robots. I use all 5 robots in my hangar, but I use that Natty more often than both my Scourge Bulgasari and my Punisher Ancile Lancelot. It's just so destructive. I will also give you another argument why you should go for Punishers instead of Molots: A very common matchup for me is going toe-to-toe against an Ancilot. If you can catch them on open terrain at 400m, they're no problem at all. But if you have to get personal, as in less than 300m range, things get interesting. I remind you about the total damage values: Tempests do 228k max damage. 2 Molots have 90k, 2 Punishers have 206k. I assume weapons/Ancile loaded and fully charged.
Numbers.
(a) Molots.
It takes 95k to take down the Ancile. Then it takes 153k to take down the physical shield. Tempests and Molots will hit nearly 100% within 300m.
Tempests and Molots combine for 318k damage, so after taking down the Ancile and the physical shield (248k), you can do at most 60k damage before you reload. That makes zero chance to take down the Ancilot with the first round. So, you take cover, reload, and have another go. It takes 34 seconds to fire the first round, reload, and fire the second round. In that time, the Ancile will recharge by roughly 100k HP. So if you manage to shoot a full second round, the balance is 636k damage output vs. 518k damage you have to create. In other words, pray that the Lance won't use cover, you hit 100% of your shots, you don't lose a weapon (unfortunately, the Natty is prone to getting Tempests shot off) and that the Lance is really at the same level, because if it is just 2 levels higher (12% more HP from shield and bot, 20% from Ancile), you're screwed.
(b) Punishers. With Punishers, everything changes. If you are at point blank range and hit near 100% with your Punishers, the damage after dropping Ancile and physical shield jumps to 176k, which, as it happens, is just enough to take down the Lancelot. If you lose some damage due to distance (as should be expected) and can't damage the Lance enough to cripple it (destroy the Ancile), you can use the following strategy: Find cover once the Tempests are empty or nearly empty, but try to keep firing at the Ancile with at least one Punisher (that has 6s more time to fire). That way, the Ancile will be down once your Tempests are reloaded, and you can hit the Lance with the full damage potential of your Tempests and the other Punisher.
It's not an easy win, but with an experienced pilot, your chances aren't bad either.
I mean, Molot Tempest seems like the natural thing to do. The same reload cycles, and 2 Molots have just a bit less power than 1 Tempest, so that build has almost the power of a Tempest Fury. However, Punishers have 103k cycle damage compared to the 45k of Molots (and 114k of a Tempest). Punishers are useless outside of 500m, and Molots are probably better in the 350m-500m range. But, I'm often up against Ancile builds, especially builds with superior level (my hangar is 9/7.5, and I'm up against many level 10-12 whale Ancilots), where some extra damage potential would come in very handy. In fact, there are many matchups where I wish my 9/8 Punisher Ancilot had a bit more ammo.
2 Tempests combine for 228k max damage. 2 Molots have 90k, 2 Punishers have 206k. Of course, damage is highly dependant on the distance, I'd assume that we have only 1/4th damage at 700m for Molots/Tempests. A Molot has a burst damage of 4k DPS (in accelerated firing), a Punisher 5.8k, Tempest 10.2k. (Whoa. Tempests are getting a buff in the next release? Really?)
A bonus from FB Gameroom is that you can define a weapon group (unfortunately only 1), that you can fire with your right mouse button. So you can lay either both Tempests or both light weapons on one weapon slot. Obviously, outside 500m you'll want to fire only the two Tempests. Within 500m it can make sense to use only the Punishers, say if you are at 450m and want to drop an Ancile, you can do that using only your Punishers and save Tempest ammo for the time the Ancile is down.
So let's crunch the numbers. The beef in the setup are the Tempests, obviously. All at level 12 assumed.
- Adding 2 Molots is the equivalent of 0.79 Tempests at all ranges, assuming bullet spread is similar.
- Adding 2 Punishers increases the burst DPS at point blank range by the equivalent of 1.14 Tempests. However, the Punishers will fire 6 seconds longer than Molots, so there is some extra firepower there.
- From the ability to drop Anciles, that is, we're talking about a pure support role here, a single Punisher is just 10% below a Tempest.
Cycle damage is 435k for Tempest/Punisher in 18.5s, and 318k in 12.5s for Tempest/Molot.
Both builds are clearly mixed range builds. I don't see them as pure midrange/longrange builds, for the simple fact: They rock at point blank range. Numbers, again.
- At close range (say 150m), I'd expect both weapon systems to deliver almost the full damage potential. Thus, a Tempest Molot Natty has 28.6k DPS in accelerated firing mode. A Tempest Punisher Natty has 32.2k DPS. Cycle DPS come down to 14.2k (Molots) or 17.3k (Punishers).
- To give you a scale of reference for this, a Plasma Griffin has only 21k burst DPS.
- A Punisher Ancilot has 18.8k burst/accelerated DPS.
- A Punisher Griffin delivers 30.6k burst DPS (in accelerated mode). A Tempest Punisher Natty has more burst DPS than a Punisher Griffin!
At range, Tempest Natty is good, but not outstanding. A Zeus Fury delivers 7.8k cycle DPS. I'd figure at 550m a Tempest Molot Natty does ~9k DPS in burst firing (assuming 30% of the bullets hit), but only ~4k cycle DPS.
Upgrades: A Tempest is 64 million and 17 days to level 12. 2 Molots cost exactly the same, and Punishers and Molots also have the same costs.
Bottom line:
A Tempest Natty is not a traditional midranger. It's a versatile build that should be played like a Scourge build, where the player tries to stay out the targets range. (Which is of course much more difficult for a Natty than for a Scourge Bulgasari.) But this build can also deal considerable damage from close range. I guess the choice between Molots and Punishers comes down to personal preference. In an environment of maxed hangars, the best choice is probably still the Tempest Fury. But in a resource constrained environment with a kind-of-fresh hangar (~level 8 on my FB account), it is a very interesting option to spend 50 million and 14 days on a Mk2 Natty.
As a pure midranger, I'd probably go for Zeus Gekko instead. But I really like the damage potential from the Tempests, and therefore declare this build as my new favorite Natty setup
Check out my Natty Analysis, too.
Addendum (as of Dec 28th, 2017): I have run this build for several months now, and it has become one of my go-to robots. I use all 5 robots in my hangar, but I use that Natty more often than both my Scourge Bulgasari and my Punisher Ancile Lancelot. It's just so destructive. I will also give you another argument why you should go for Punishers instead of Molots: A very common matchup for me is going toe-to-toe against an Ancilot. If you can catch them on open terrain at 400m, they're no problem at all. But if you have to get personal, as in less than 300m range, things get interesting. I remind you about the total damage values: Tempests do 228k max damage. 2 Molots have 90k, 2 Punishers have 206k. I assume weapons/Ancile loaded and fully charged.
Numbers.
(a) Molots.
It takes 95k to take down the Ancile. Then it takes 153k to take down the physical shield. Tempests and Molots will hit nearly 100% within 300m.
Tempests and Molots combine for 318k damage, so after taking down the Ancile and the physical shield (248k), you can do at most 60k damage before you reload. That makes zero chance to take down the Ancilot with the first round. So, you take cover, reload, and have another go. It takes 34 seconds to fire the first round, reload, and fire the second round. In that time, the Ancile will recharge by roughly 100k HP. So if you manage to shoot a full second round, the balance is 636k damage output vs. 518k damage you have to create. In other words, pray that the Lance won't use cover, you hit 100% of your shots, you don't lose a weapon (unfortunately, the Natty is prone to getting Tempests shot off) and that the Lance is really at the same level, because if it is just 2 levels higher (12% more HP from shield and bot, 20% from Ancile), you're screwed.
(b) Punishers. With Punishers, everything changes. If you are at point blank range and hit near 100% with your Punishers, the damage after dropping Ancile and physical shield jumps to 176k, which, as it happens, is just enough to take down the Lancelot. If you lose some damage due to distance (as should be expected) and can't damage the Lance enough to cripple it (destroy the Ancile), you can use the following strategy: Find cover once the Tempests are empty or nearly empty, but try to keep firing at the Ancile with at least one Punisher (that has 6s more time to fire). That way, the Ancile will be down once your Tempests are reloaded, and you can hit the Lance with the full damage potential of your Tempests and the other Punisher.
It's not an easy win, but with an experienced pilot, your chances aren't bad either.
