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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 1:41:35 GMT -5
So I built an ember thru my wsp and gold stores. I heard it's so strong the reds all mech out if you simply point it in their direction... legend has it it broke the game (right bronzeknee?) So all week long I have marched into red spawn and tried to act like my favorite youtubers and spawn raid their golems and vitasyzeses in Android champion league... But... It didn't go down like that. My ember rigs are getting their 「multiple dookie delivery chute」 kicked. Lance Taran rig. Carnage thunder ember rig. Leo mag ember rig. Dead, dead, dead. Now that doesn't mean the game isn't broken. I hear the shocktrain is the new bad boy breaking the game, but before everyone blows their lunch money on the unstoppable flames of Mordor.... the ember... my take is it's good, but not great. Sure, on paper it's a beast. And maybe on YouTube. But my experience is that the flames are slow and easy to dodge, and that unless you're tanking and fighting noobs, the reds kill you pretty quick. Griffin's jump, dashes dash, and no one really stands around and lets you melt them for 10s like on YouTube. Now, take this all with a grain of salt. I likely suck at this game, and I have big hands and a small phone, and trolls like to say I pay to win.... but my personal experience with ember is that it's slightly better than thunder or tempest, but not really the "win now" button it appeared on paper. Happy hunting. |
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Post by Heishiro on Nov 3, 2017 1:58:23 GMT -5
what level is your ember? im saving component for this weapon..
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Post by llama4president on Nov 3, 2017 2:02:30 GMT -5
Ember doesn't give you an energy shield, nor a physical one, nor it alters your bot's hp.
It lets you do thunder damage at 350m distance.
The mechanics for hitting are more like shooting with orkans, meaning you gotta lead your target,
and it has a little splash radius, and so it might take time to get used to it and bringing it to full potential.
It took me some time to get used to short range rockets, i think your case is just you need to get used to its mechanics.
Also consider you are fielding a single ember, which, like a single thunder, has limited potential and you are relying more
on the other weapons on that bot.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 2:14:39 GMT -5
what level is your ember? im saving component for this weapon.. Level 11 on a level 12 Lance with lvl 12 tarans. Let me know if your results are better than mine. I would welcome any tips. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 2:16:58 GMT -5
Ember doesn't give you an energy shield, nor a physical one, nor it alters your bot's hp. It lets you do thunder damage at 350m distance. The mechanics for hitting are more like shooting with orkans, meaning you gotta lead your target, and it has a little splash radius, and so it might take time to get used to it and bringing it to full potential. It took me some time to get used to short range rockets, i think your case is just you need to get used to its mechanics. Also consider you are fielding a single ember, which, like a single thunder, has limited potential and you are relying more on the other weapons on that bot. Thanks. Yeah, I need more practice. I just thought I wouldn't need multiples as it's such a paper tiger. But I guess I needed to touch the hot stove to know it was only like warm afterall... |
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Post by Heishiro on Nov 3, 2017 2:56:05 GMT -5
what level is your ember? im saving component for this weapon.. Level 11 on a level 12 Lance with lvl 12 tarans. Let me know if your results are better than mine. I would welcome any tips. my goodness.. im still saving, less than 3k components for ember..  i just got my 3rd tempest today, now saving for Haechi near 6k component then next the ember still going to be very long time before i can have it |
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zigzak0110
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Post by zigzak0110 on Nov 3, 2017 3:07:02 GMT -5
People have been crying that the ember broke the game. I believe most of them only experienced on youtube and review.
The ember is undeniably powerful, but it also has a weakness. That is the bot that carries it.
Most of the videos I saw were either the ember carrier was spooning an ancilot, or firing at an unexpected red which gave them a few seconds advantage.
I'll list a few setup that i have tried and their Achilles' heel.
1. Lancelot: giving up the ancile makes the Lance half scary as usual. If you enjoy DBing a thunder orkan Lance, you should have no trouble with this setup. I think any single ember build is not that deadly.
2. Carnage: 2 embers are very strong, but the Carnage will fall before it can empty the embers clip, either to DB or plasma.
3. Fury:
-2 embers + 1 Ancile: I had some great success with this setup and currently still using it. Stronger armor and ancile than a carnage, able to trade fire with a tarancilot. But to take out a same leveled tarancilot i usually down to my 20% armor left. PDB is about luck, whoever break their strongest weapon first lose. Can take down DB setup. Thunder orkan lance, if both players start engaging at 300-350m, see PDB, if he drain my ancile from 500m first, i lose. No chance against plasma Dasher, too slow to avoid the infamous Korean Death Hug.
-3 embers: I dont have a 3rd ember to test this setup but i think it kill plasma 50% faster in exchange for complete vulnerable to rocket, which is not good if you are being harassed by RDB or smoked by DB. If you intend to use this setup, i suggest you go homo and spoon a friendly Ancilot.
4. Raijin: Wonder for plasma burning, still toasted to rockets. Other problems? Your team hate it, and weapon placement is stupid.
5. Inquisitor: I dont own any Inquisitor but I took down a lot of them just by blind shooting. The bot is big and its play style is predictable. If you manage to avoid battle ii in stealth mode, its weaker than a Lance.
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Post by TravLar on Nov 3, 2017 3:16:06 GMT -5
Does Ember eat up an Ancile shield? A blue Inquisitor with Tarans and an Ember took on a Tarancilot around the corner from me at Shenzen and I saw his shield bar going down. I don't know if he was taking fire from somewhere else or if it was the Ember.
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Post by llama4president on Nov 3, 2017 3:52:47 GMT -5
Ember doesn't give you an energy shield, nor a physical one, nor it alters your bot's hp. It lets you do thunder damage at 350m distance. The mechanics for hitting are more like shooting with orkans, meaning you gotta lead your target, and it has a little splash radius, and so it might take time to get used to it and bringing it to full potential. It took me some time to get used to short range rockets, i think your case is just you need to get used to its mechanics. Also consider you are fielding a single ember, which, like a single thunder, has limited potential and you are relying more on the other weapons on that bot. Thanks. Yeah, I need more practice. I just thought I wouldn't need multiples as it's such a paper tiger. But I guess I needed to touch the hot stove to know it was only like warm afterall... Premise: i don't have an ember. Now, looking at how it works, its aim ain't magnetic like tarans. Shooting ember along with plasma leads to 2 different aiming modes. One splash and the other magnetic. Can i ask you to try ember with orkans? Both are splash and need to lead target's movement. My 2 cents that this will help you. |
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Post by _psychø on Nov 3, 2017 3:56:14 GMT -5
One Ember won't do, try two of them.
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Post by BLYTHE on Nov 3, 2017 4:02:38 GMT -5
I've been killed by the shocktrain several times already; I didn't enjoy it very much...
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Post by The VVatcher on Nov 3, 2017 5:28:16 GMT -5
Does anyone know the cost of Lucky Spin for Ember? Is it the same as Haechi?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 9:48:09 GMT -5
Thanks. Yeah, I need more practice. I just thought I wouldn't need multiples as it's such a paper tiger. But I guess I needed to touch the hot stove to know it was only like warm afterall... Premise: i don't have an ember. Now, looking at how it works, its aim ain't magnetic like tarans. Shooting ember along with plasma leads to 2 different aiming modes. One splash and the other magnetic. Can i ask you to try ember with orkans? Both are splash and need to lead target's movement. My 2 cents that this will help you. I haven't tried that, but i will explore. The issue as I see it is that ember fires 30 cells per second, each dealing 450 damage at lvl 11, but at range, I am certainly not connecting with all 30 units. Now, this could be by design of the weapon, or it could be that I suck at aiming, but in my experience, the weapon doesn't do max damage at max range, similar to thunder and tempest. Damage improves as you close on targets. |
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Post by Why? on Nov 3, 2017 10:12:30 GMT -5
Honestly, the biggest weakness of Ember is a suitable platform. Ember is slow so it can't e adjusted mid-shot like a Thunder. I was baffled too, seeing Ember not living up to its mythical status. That's a good thing for the game I guess/
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Post by pirateb0t on Nov 3, 2017 10:15:02 GMT -5
I've faced off against many lancelot ember/tarans, inquisitor ember/tarans, carnage double embers, and including a japanese dude sporting a comedy single ember/ancile raijin combo perched on a ledge in valley.
I've been roasted by a few of them but usually it's a surprise attack. I think ember is best run like an ambush bot which means you have to be very selective. Yama seems like a particularly effective map since ember clears that middle beacon and ramp like non other. Of course getting close is based on your skill as a pilot.
I've also seen ember used very effectively on moon and dead city. The angles and situations all favor ember.
I think you should stick with the taran/ember lancelot. If I had one I would run it until I learned it in and out. I wouldn't care if it tanks my win rate as long as I get a good grasp on how it works.
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Post by pirateb0t on Nov 3, 2017 10:18:09 GMT -5
Honestly, the biggest weakness of Ember is a suitable platform. Ember is slow so it can't e adjusted mid-shot like a Thunder. I was baffled too, seeing Ember not living up to its mythical status. That's a good thing for the game I guess/ Ember can be extremely ugly on an inquisitor w dual tarans with a good pilot. I've played against a guy with a full hangar of these his name is chainfire on ios. |
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Post by Ⓑⓞⓑ Ⓓⓨⓛⓐⓝ on Nov 3, 2017 11:08:07 GMT -5
Premise: i don't have an ember. Now, looking at how it works, its aim ain't magnetic like tarans. Shooting ember along with plasma leads to 2 different aiming modes. One splash and the other magnetic. Can i ask you to try ember with orkans? Both are splash and need to lead target's movement. My 2 cents that this will help you. I haven't tried that, but i will explore. The issue as I see it is that ember fires 30 cells per second, each dealing 450 damage at lvl 11, but at range, I am certainly not connecting with all 30 units. Now, this could be by design of the weapon, or it could be that I suck at aiming, but in my experience, the weapon doesn't do max damage at max range, similar to thunder and tempest. Damage improves as you close on targets. Ember definitly tracks like orkans, meaning you have to lead a target moving sideways. Did you see my thread "The single ember dilemma"? I actually tried every possible single ember platform outside of inquisitor at level 10+ ... Now I don't use the ember in my hanger at all, if I did it would be on a Orkan/Ember Lance, Taran/Ember Lance (tracking shots is an issue), or an ember/ork/pinata golem. It's a good weapon, but you have to be exposed for a long time when paired with plasma and with rockets they both don't wear down anciles so it limits it a bit... Edit: here's the thread war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/16239/single-ember-dilemma |
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Post by bronzeknee on Nov 3, 2017 11:11:50 GMT -5
legend has it it broke the game (right bronzeknee ?) Right. I give you props for posting something, I didn't think you've even do that. But I'm sad this thread is completely devoid of real evidence, when my thread was chock full of it (both video, and statistic analysis). Looking back now, you completely avoided discussing that statistical evidence, then watched the video and made false claims about it which you later retracted after I called you out. So I guess I shouldn't have expected you to produce evidence or have a reasonable discussion in this thread either. I do not believe you are educated enough to do so at this point. Your anecdotal evidence is meaningless, that isn't a real type of evidence, especially when it has an agenda behind it. And you've straw manned my argument to death, because I never stated what you claimed in the first few lines of this thread. It was never about the Ember allowing you to spawn raid, it was about the damage it inflicts compared to a Thunder in a given situation, which in the video happened to be a spawn raid. You're purposely misrepresenting my argument with hyperbole to undermine it. Anyone with brain can see that, but people like you use straw mans because it really impresses people like you (people use arguments that are convincing to themselves), which makes me laugh. I can imagine you guys cheering on the ignorance...
Get that straw man! Get er good! Looks just like the BronzeKnee!So your hack argument masquerading as a real argument is meaningless; my months old thread stands, the statistical evidence I presented remains unchallenged. But as a thread about your personal feelings about the Ember, this works. I included some wiki links so you can learn about anecdotal evidence and straw man arguments. You make me laugh Panda. Finally, I'm going to put a thread that defines pay to win and explains how it destroys games, because it doesn't literally mean pay and get wins. The Ember doesn't do that. Pay to win actually means something else entirely. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_manen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidenceI look forward to next time Panda. |
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Post by llama4president on Nov 3, 2017 11:50:25 GMT -5
Premise: i don't have an ember. Now, looking at how it works, its aim ain't magnetic like tarans. Shooting ember along with plasma leads to 2 different aiming modes. One splash and the other magnetic. Can i ask you to try ember with orkans? Both are splash and need to lead target's movement. My 2 cents that this will help you. I haven't tried that, but i will explore. The issue as I see it is that ember fires 30 cells per second, each dealing 450 damage at lvl 11, but at range, I am certainly not connecting with all 30 units. Now, this could be by design of the weapon, or it could be that I suck at aiming, but in my experience, the weapon doesn't do max damage at max range, similar to thunder and tempest. Damage improves as you close on targets. You can easily proof it out in custom battles if there is an accuracy value. Just do 1 tick at a time, at different distances. If the tick at 350m does more damage tham a tick at 100m, there is some damage reduction at distance. If both ticks return the same damage, it's an aiming issue at moving targets. The ember, like orkan, as it's not magnetic, needs accurate aiming and leading of the target. I don't know the projectile speed, but it might be slower than the rockets of Orkans. This might mean that for moving targets at far range (300-350) the lead on ember could be higher than the lead of orkans. I'm juat guessing. Don't have an ember to run tests with. Now... About the ember and plasma issue: Plasma requires to aim "near" the bot, most of the times aiming inside the red outiline triggers the magnetic aim. The trick should be, when shooting at a moving target, to find a middle ground between the plasma aim and the ember lead. The plasmas have some tolerance where they keep the stickiness, so it will allow a little of leading. Another trick could be that you wait and shoot only when you see a target going slow, or going toward or away from you, or a semi still target. But as i said in the post earlier, orkans and embers should marry pretty well so you can lead without worrying. My humble opinion is that a double ember on carnage is the best platform for doing peekaboos at 300 - 350m distance. |
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Post by Why? on Nov 3, 2017 12:06:51 GMT -5
Honestly, the biggest weakness of Ember is a suitable platform. Ember is slow so it can't e adjusted mid-shot like a Thunder. I was baffled too, seeing Ember not living up to its mythical status. That's a good thing for the game I guess/ Ember can be extremely ugly on an inquisitor w dual tarans with a good pilot. I've played against a guy with a full hangar of these his name is chainfire on ios. I run it on a Shocktrain Inquisitor. I'll get to making a Taran Inq after I finish levelling my scourges and shocks. Just practising with the Inq for now. |
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Post by Why? on Nov 3, 2017 12:08:22 GMT -5
I haven't tried that, but i will explore. The issue as I see it is that ember fires 30 cells per second, each dealing 450 damage at lvl 11, but at range, I am certainly not connecting with all 30 units. Now, this could be by design of the weapon, or it could be that I suck at aiming, but in my experience, the weapon doesn't do max damage at max range, similar to thunder and tempest. Damage improves as you close on targets. My humble opinion is that a double ember on carnage is the best platform for doing peekaboos at 300 - 350m distance. Or a Natasha with Mags in BR. |
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Post by llama4president on Nov 3, 2017 12:41:43 GMT -5
My humble opinion is that a double ember on carnage is the best platform for doing peekaboos at 300 - 350m distance. Or a Natasha with Mags in BR. Due to the different aiming modes, i'd say pinatas. I'd dare to say, Embers are heavy orkans with the bonus of bypassing anciles, faster reload, and slower burst. |
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Post by rydag on Nov 3, 2017 12:55:48 GMT -5
Ember can be extremely ugly on an inquisitor w dual tarans with a good pilot. I've played against a guy with a full hangar of these his name is chainfire on ios. I run it on a Shocktrain Inquisitor. I'll get to making a Taran Inq after I finish levelling my scourges and shocks. Just practising with the Inq for now. Shocktrains don't pair well with the Ember. You have to stay on target for the Ember, while Shocktrains blow their load and then have to recharge. |
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Post by ᎶƦ℮℮ƊᎽ ƤΛƝƊΛ on Nov 3, 2017 13:08:05 GMT -5
I found the Ember to be best on either an Inquisitor with Tarans or in a pair on top of a Carnage. This was on test server at level 8, though, and things play differently at level 12. They do play similar to Orkans, doing thunder damage, with an extra 50m of range, while ignoring all shields. It takes a little mastering, but once you’ve got them down there isn’t a short range heavy weapon that can keep up.
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Post by amidf on Nov 3, 2017 13:13:15 GMT -5
What's the form of argument called when you just hurl a bunch of insults at the poster to make his argument look weaker? I know the answer, but I want to give someone on this thread a chance to link to a list of logical fallacies so he can feel better about himself.
BTW, if I were to record all my matches and then cherry pick videos to post here that make me look like a god, it wouldn't be a full accounting of all the times I didn't make the right move. What's that error in data presentation called?
The facts are that the ember does similar damage to a close range thunder but out to 350m. The reality is that it's projectiles move slower. There will be situations where the thunder hits and the ember doesn't. What we're left with is anecdotes and videos of real playing experience to compare, and unless we see a lot of them without publication bias, we aren't going to have the facts.
What we're left with is differences of opinion. Ember should be stronger overall than thunder. But how much stronger it is is not going to come down to its stats on paper or some video clips of someone who may have been having a great game.
When I have encountered ember it has seemed really strong. But that's because the players who have ember already have it 2-4 levels above most of my bots and weapons. Orkans, tarans, zeuses, tulumbas, and even trebuchets are all OP in my games.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 14:28:10 GMT -5
I haven't tried that, but i will explore. The issue as I see it is that ember fires 30 cells per second, each dealing 450 damage at lvl 11, but at range, I am certainly not connecting with all 30 units. Now, this could be by design of the weapon, or it could be that I suck at aiming, but in my experience, the weapon doesn't do max damage at max range, similar to thunder and tempest. Damage improves as you close on targets. You can easily proof it out in custom battles if there is an accuracy value. Just do 1 tick at a time, at different distances. If the tick at 350m does more damage tham a tick at 100m, there is some damage reduction at distance. If both ticks return the same damage, it's an aiming issue at moving targets. The ember, like orkan, as it's not magnetic, needs accurate aiming and leading of the target. I don't know the projectile speed, but it might be slower than the rockets of Orkans. This might mean that for moving targets at far range (300-350) the lead on ember could be higher than the lead of orkans. I'm juat guessing. Don't have an ember to run tests with. Now... About the ember and plasma issue: Plasma requires to aim "near" the bot, most of the times aiming inside the red outiline triggers the magnetic aim. The trick should be, when shooting at a moving target, to find a middle ground between the plasma aim and the ember lead. The plasmas have some tolerance where they keep the stickiness, so it will allow a little of leading. Another trick could be that you wait and shoot only when you see a target going slow, or going toward or away from you, or a semi still target. But as i said in the post earlier, orkans and embers should marry pretty well so you can lead without worrying. My humble opinion is that a double ember on carnage is the best platform for doing peekaboos at 300 - 350m distance. This is a good idea. If I get online with a buddy sometime I will try it. I am curious if larger targets absorb more of the "30 units" than smaller bots, and to what degree movement will affect the damage. bronzeknee , check out my signature -> All my posts are solely my opinions... That's been there since the beginning. But enjoy feeling so smart about yourself I guess, if that's what floats your boats. At this point we just have a difference of experiences and opinions. And while my post is anecdotal, I intend it to help the people that will incorrectly assume an ember does 13.5k at 350m at level 11 (like some type of super Taran), because in reality, my experiences are that it doesn't, based on the aiming mechanic and distribution of the damage it does per fuel litre per second. There's actually lots of good discussion here in the thread. Read it, or don't, it's up to you bud. |
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Post by Thunderkiss on Nov 3, 2017 15:18:58 GMT -5
what level is your ember? im saving component for this weapon.. Level 11 on a level 12 Lance with lvl 12 tarans. Let me know if your results are better than mine. I would welcome any tips. Point them at RED bots...... |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Nov 3, 2017 15:37:02 GMT -5
Oh HP, you have gone to the Dark Side, I see. DO they have cookies? I keep hearing they do... I could go with a sugar cookie at the moment. (I really, secretly, envy your hangar strength (only just starting to have a decent amount of 10s, meself) and the Ember. If I could, I would run one on a Leo with Spirals when bored. Bait Reds with the Spirals and then gift them with a hunk of flaming, burnin' love, uh huh, once they come after me  ) Without owning one, I can only say that the idea of an Emborkan Lance is most appealing for having just a single example of the weapon. May you burn down the straw that you make all those men out of... or whatever it is that Bronze is accusing you of doing. Is that some kind of yard art thing? Or are you a Burning Man enthusiast? Just curious... Pandas are intriguing. IMO, YMMV |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 15:52:50 GMT -5
Lol, I dunno either. Like the Sicilian from princess bride, he's just too darn smart for my dopey self. I am just getting most stuff from 11 to 12... I rushed the ember because, well, fire is gud. Not excited about doing it again to mk2, so I think I will just concede the 20% handicap.... But cheers ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48, it's the journey that's the fun, not the destination. |
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