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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 4:23:59 GMT -5
We know that currently Haechi is OP with its excellent mobility and superior firepower thanks to the 3 medium slots it has. What do you think is the best step to balance it? Removing one of the slots might work? Example 1  Example 2It can still corner shoot with both weapons in this example.   |
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Post by WilsonK on Oct 11, 2017 4:29:16 GMT -5
Nice artwork there.
I've voted for the first option, however the following would actually be better.
1) Lowering it's base HP
2) Converting one medium hardpoint to a light hardpoint (this is because the Kumiho already has 2 medium hardpoints)
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Post by northempire on Oct 11, 2017 5:05:40 GMT -5
We know that currently Haechi has high mobility and superior firepower with the 3 medium slots. What do you think is the best step to balance it? Removing one of the slots might work? Version 1Version 2It can still corner shoot with both weapons in this example. did you made those 3D models? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 6:07:18 GMT -5
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Post by Amleth on Oct 11, 2017 6:33:23 GMT -5
I thought you meant make dash bots count as using two hangar slots. It sounded like an interesting idea. I could get behind that.
This, though, I dunno. Taking weapon slots off already sold/won bots is not ideal for a number of reasons.
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Post by Emperor on Oct 11, 2017 6:38:27 GMT -5
It should have it's shield removed...
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Post by Domino on Oct 11, 2017 6:43:38 GMT -5
Either pick that their all medium Size bots or light medium heavy.
Once that is figured out, you can then apply a fix.
All dashs should have 1 dash. No accumulation. But make the time slight faster for Haechi and Bulg.
Remove ancile on haechi., Bump up hp slightly or remove 1 medium poont
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Post by shivaswrath on Oct 11, 2017 7:31:22 GMT -5
it doesn't need to be rebalanced, they are easy to take apart if you time it right.
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Post by Koalabear on Oct 11, 2017 7:38:59 GMT -5
They're not that bad anymore. People are learning. Down in the Gold and Diamond leagues, they're like Ancilots. When they're sighted, it's all hands on deck! Like when I go out in my Bulg... sheesh, sometimes I don't even get to play much before I'm blasted to scrap!
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Post by Domino on Oct 11, 2017 9:20:08 GMT -5
it doesn't need to be rebalanced, they are easy to take apart if you time it right. Because you are facing noob Haechi pilots. |
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Post by Domino on Oct 11, 2017 9:21:13 GMT -5
They're not that bad anymore. People are learning. Down in the Gold and Diamond leagues, they're like Ancilots. When they're sighted, it's all hands on deck! Like when I go out in my Bulg... sheesh, sometimes I don't even get to play much before I'm blasted to scrap! Because Blue's are realizing if they all don't gang up on a dash, it will wipe the whole team out in quick order. |
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Post by GuitarGuy on Oct 11, 2017 9:41:03 GMT -5
Ok, I am going to throw out some unpopular opinions here. The rebalance viewpoint is coming from people who dont own these bots or spent the money on them so naturally they want them nerfed in some way because they feel its overpowered to there conventional hangars. This isnt fair to the people who have spent the money or grinded for keys to win one. Its my opinion that the reason many upper middle league players feel so threatened by them is because they get mixed in with Champion league players who usually have better CQC skills and know how to work in groups. One thing I have noticed lately with Diamond, Expert and many Master level players is the amount of long and mind range in hangar, some as many as 3 or 4 range bots and maybe two brawlers. This is a big problem when you hit any smaller maps an now half and sometimes over half of your hangar is simply ineffective to capture and hold beacons or to hold of any small group of red brawlers that are paired up. I have seen many top clans simply drop 4 plasma griffins at the beginning of a BR match and totally wreck a squad of Ork Haechis. While I will not deny the power of the new K bots, they are not as overwelming if you plan the right tactics for it and quit trying to play so much mid and long range. The Haechi is no stronger than a carnage or fujin, it just has superior mobility. When on big maps its very fragile out in the open. I would be willing to bet most of you only have problems with them on small maps. And this comes right back to honing your CQC skills and having a hangar that can brawl more than it can sit back and snipe with range.
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Post by javelinaut717 on Oct 11, 2017 9:46:59 GMT -5
i think maybe increase Haechi's bash cooldown and minimize the HP and shield?
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buford
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Post by buford on Oct 11, 2017 10:02:42 GMT -5
I would either remove one slot or remove the ancile completely. This thing doesn't even need to dash to be OP as hell. Increasing cooldown will do little to help.
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Oct 11, 2017 10:08:26 GMT -5
I was in a Kumho last night and I tied up 70% of the team by simply sitting behind a wall. I never fired a shot ... The hype, gives way to fear, the fear gives way to inaction, the inaction gives way to defeat.
The Dashes are riding a wave of populist horrific lore, like a scary camp fire story, which is translating into psychological self defeat.
Double and triple team these things like fat kids on a bowl of smarties.
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Post by GuitarGuy on Oct 11, 2017 10:13:34 GMT -5
I was in a Kumho last night and I tied up 70% of the team by simply sitting behind a wall. I never fired a shot ... The hype, gives way to fear, the fear gives way to inaction, the inaction gives way to defeat. The Dashes are riding a wave of populist horrific lore, like a scary camp fire story, which is translating into psychological self defeat. Double and triple team these things like fat kids on a bowl of smarties. this 100% Thank you for bringing this up Rockwelder. He is spot on with both points! |
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Post by SunTsu on Oct 11, 2017 10:15:52 GMT -5
Ok, I am going to throw out some unpopular opinions here. The rebalance viewpoint is coming from people who dont own these bots or spent the money on them so naturally they want them nerfed in some way because they feel its overpowered to there conventional hangars. This isnt fair to the people who have spent the money or grinded for keys to win one. Its my opinion that the reason many upper middle league players feel so threatened by them is because they get mixed in with Champion league players who usually have better CQC skills and know how to work in groups. One thing I have noticed lately with Diamond, Expert and many Master level players is the amount of long and mind range in hangar, some as many as 3 or 4 range bots and maybe two brawlers. This is a big problem when you hit any smaller maps an now half and sometimes over half of your hangar is simply ineffective to capture and hold beacons or to hold of any small group of red brawlers that are paired up. I have seen many top clans simply drop 4 plasma griffins at the beginning of a BR match and totally wreck a squad of Ork Haechis. While I will not deny the power of the new K bots, they are not as overwelming if you plan the right tactics for it and quit trying to play so much mid and long range. The Haechi is no stronger than a carnage or fujin, it just has superior mobility. When on big maps its very fragile out in the open. I would be willing to bet most of you only have problems with them on small maps. And this comes right back to honing your CQC skills and having a hangar that can brawl more than it can sit back and snipe with range. Don't give away the Haechi secrets! Everyone will start playing PDB griffs, then it will be human sacrifice, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria! (Seriously though I think it's ironic that a bot that can be had with silver and wsp has the ability to lay waste to KBots) |
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Post by GuitarGuy on Oct 11, 2017 10:18:11 GMT -5
I would either remove one slot or remove the ancile completely. This thing doesn't even need to dash to be OP as hell. Increasing cooldown will do little to help. If you removed its dash, the haechi is basically a fujin then. Do you think a Fujin is Op as hell? I would bet not. |
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Post by CrownBlack on Oct 11, 2017 10:25:28 GMT -5
They're not that bad anymore. People are learning. Down in the Gold and Diamond leagues, they're like Ancilots. When they're sighted, it's all hands on deck! Like when I go out in my Bulg... sheesh, sometimes I don't even get to play much before I'm blasted to scrap! Ya well I think they should take a leg off a dash to even out the playing field or better yet just give them ONE light weapon slot, no shield and like 50k HP.
Everytime I see a dash in BR I see it die. People need to stop freaking out.
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Post by ezekielcrow on Oct 11, 2017 10:26:06 GMT -5
I would either remove one slot or remove the ancile completely. This thing doesn't even need to dash to be OP as hell. Increasing cooldown will do little to help. I'm going to go with this. I own two Haechi's and one Bulgasaur (no, I got very lucky before the update). I also get to play kumiho on a friend's account. I'm not a gifted player but I've logged a good number of hours on each aside from playing them on the test server. Kumiho and Bulgasaur are fine. They have enough gaps in their abilities that can be exploited to take them down. Haechi is a totally different animal. The gap is much smaller, and it regenerates. I usually average 2.5 kills in my other mechs (Bulg included) but even at my skill level, I can easily average 4.5 kills piloting a haechi across all maps. Dealing with a haechi, though possible is tough work one on one. Time consuming. Time that youre not using to achieve victory conditions. Even without others taking pot shots at you. Ive also faced predominantly haechi squads and its like swimming up an avalanche. You get buried. Alot. Another concern I have is power creep. Having the haechi that far ahead of the curve begs the question..what's next? So far the, inquisitor hasnt made that big a splash. But its still early and I'd rate the inqstr on par with a bulgasari. A bit more balanced. I'd really hate to have all that work (and a bit of coin) I put into my hangar become irrelevant over time if this is where development is headed. By the way, I like the symmetrical haechi best. |
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Post by GuitarGuy on Oct 11, 2017 10:27:37 GMT -5
Ok, I am going to throw out some unpopular opinions here. The rebalance viewpoint is coming from people who dont own these bots or spent the money on them so naturally they want them nerfed in some way because they feel its overpowered to there conventional hangars. This isnt fair to the people who have spent the money or grinded for keys to win one. Its my opinion that the reason many upper middle league players feel so threatened by them is because they get mixed in with Champion league players who usually have better CQC skills and know how to work in groups. One thing I have noticed lately with Diamond, Expert and many Master level players is the amount of long and mind range in hangar, some as many as 3 or 4 range bots and maybe two brawlers. This is a big problem when you hit any smaller maps an now half and sometimes over half of your hangar is simply ineffective to capture and hold beacons or to hold of any small group of red brawlers that are paired up. I have seen many top clans simply drop 4 plasma griffins at the beginning of a BR match and totally wreck a squad of Ork Haechis. While I will not deny the power of the new K bots, they are not as overwelming if you plan the right tactics for it and quit trying to play so much mid and long range. The Haechi is no stronger than a carnage or fujin, it just has superior mobility. When on big maps its very fragile out in the open. I would be willing to bet most of you only have problems with them on small maps. And this comes right back to honing your CQC skills and having a hangar that can brawl more than it can sit back and snipe with range. Don't give away the Haechi secrets! Everyone will start playing PDB griffs, then it will be human sacrifice, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria! (Seriously though I think it's ironic that a bot that can be had with silver and wsp has the ability to lay waste to KBots) Exactily! But that means you have to BRAWL and WORK in GROUPS! But NO.. its easier to "rebalance" a robot because it goes against my ingrained skill set of strategies. Not a single person here complaining about it has even once questioned there own skills or hangar choices. Its easier to say the bots is overpowered than to admit to yourself that your skills are under powered. Teamwork will beat the best single bot out there every time is your willing to work on it. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 11, 2017 10:28:25 GMT -5
I would either remove one slot or remove the ancile completely. This thing doesn't even need to dash to be OP as hell. Increasing cooldown will do little to help. If you removed its dash, the haechi is basically a fujin then. Do you think a Fujin is Op as hell? I would bet not. If the Fujin's shield was forever on? Maybe... |
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Post by NerFB on Oct 11, 2017 10:30:05 GMT -5
Ok, I am going to throw out some unpopular opinions here. The rebalance viewpoint is coming from people who dont own these bots or spent the money on them so naturally they want them nerfed in some way because they feel its overpowered to there conventional hangars. This isnt fair to the people who have spent the money or grinded for keys to win one. Its my opinion that the reason many upper middle league players feel so threatened by them is because they get mixed in with Champion league players who usually have better CQC skills and know how to work in groups. One thing I have noticed lately with Diamond, Expert and many Master level players is the amount of long and mind range in hangar, some as many as 3 or 4 range bots and maybe two brawlers. This is a big problem when you hit any smaller maps an now half and sometimes over half of your hangar is simply ineffective to capture and hold beacons or to hold of any small group of red brawlers that are paired up. I have seen many top clans simply drop 4 plasma griffins at the beginning of a BR match and totally wreck a squad of Ork Haechis. While I will not deny the power of the new K bots, they are not as overwelming if you plan the right tactics for it and quit trying to play so much mid and long range. The Haechi is no stronger than a carnage or fujin, it just has superior mobility. When on big maps its very fragile out in the open. I would be willing to bet most of you only have problems with them on small maps. And this comes right back to honing your CQC skills and having a hangar that can brawl more than it can sit back and snipe with range. Don't give away the Haechi secrets! Everyone will start playing PDB griffs, then it will be human sacrifice, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria! (Seriously though I think it's ironic that a bot that can be had with silver and wsp has the ability to lay waste to KBots) Yup, I saw a PDB hold off a couple of Haechi on Shen the other day, but to be fair, it was the best bit of piloting I've seen in a while. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 11, 2017 10:31:20 GMT -5
Personally, though, the biggest imbalance is not the bot... it's the release and rollout. I originally agreed that dropping a slot would be best... if it was done at the beginning before it was ever released and bought. Now? I don't even know. Besides making them affordable to the average person and/or make them available through grinding.
But, that is another story. SO, my vote in the poll is None of the above.
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Post by GuitarGuy on Oct 11, 2017 10:32:04 GMT -5
If you removed its dash, the haechi is basically a fujin then. Do you think a Fujin is Op as hell? I would bet not. If the Fujin's shield was forever on? Maybe... A Carnage shield is... Dont see any post on removing any of its hardpoints or Ancile..and you said it yourself "Maybe".. |
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Post by Russel on Oct 11, 2017 10:35:47 GMT -5
I honestly doubt that "PDB working in team" would lay waste to "Haechi working in team".
It is obvious that a coordinated team of robots can destroy several uncoordinated robots.
However we need to compare equally skilled teams. And in my opinion, 2-3 Haechi team wreck any 2-3 bot on Powerplant, Shenzhen, Moon, Deadcity, Valley and most probably Springfield as well, if they stay in "city area" and proceed from there.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 11, 2017 10:36:57 GMT -5
If the Fujin's shield was forever on? Maybe... A Carnage shield is... Dont see any post on removing any of its hardpoints or Ancile..and you said it yourself "Maybe".. True, because the Carnage can't carry 3 Orks! LOL but yeah, I say "maybe" because... Plasma. As long as I have a bot that can carry Plasma to counter them in my hangar I can fare pretty well. One other point, isn't the Fujin's shield (and Haechi's) stronger by a large margin than the Carnage's? They changed it so much I don't know where they are in relation to each other anymore lol. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 11, 2017 10:38:15 GMT -5
I honestly doubt that "PDB working in team" would lay waste to "Haechi working in team". It is obvious that a coordinated team of robots can destroy several uncoordinated robots. However we need to compare equally skilled teams. And in my opinion, 2-3 Haechi team wreck any 2-3 bot on Powerplant, Shenzhen, Moon, Deadcity, Valley and most probably Springfield as well, if they stay in "city area" and proceed from there. Sounds like a custom match challenge waiting to happen! |
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Post by GuitarGuy on Oct 11, 2017 10:38:35 GMT -5
Don't give away the Haechi secrets! Everyone will start playing PDB griffs, then it will be human sacrifice, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria! (Seriously though I think it's ironic that a bot that can be had with silver and wsp has the ability to lay waste to KBots) Yup, I saw a PDB hold off a couple of Haechi on Shen the other day, but to be fair, it was the best bit of piloting I've seen in a while. So, what your saying is a guy with a silver bot and wsp weapons held off not one but 2 of these completely overpowered bots by himself. Reading this post thread you would think that feat is totally impossible no matter how good you are. The only way to "fix" the "problem" is to nerf the bot in someway not working on your skills as a pilot...gosh it all makes sense now. Hmm, well I have a problem getting hit with trebs everytime i run out in the open with my unshielded bot and get destroyed. We need to cut the power of range in half so that way I can carelessly run out in the open and not die so quickly... |
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Post by Domino on Oct 11, 2017 10:44:59 GMT -5
The Haechi is no stronger than a carnage or fujin, it just has superior mobility. When on big maps its very fragile out in the open. I would be willing to bet most of you only have problems with them on small maps. And this comes right back to honing your CQC skills and having a hangar that can brawl more than it can sit back and snipe with range. It has the combined power of a carnage and fujin. Carnage has mobility (temporary) and while not apple to apple firepower, without the health (114k vs 158k, shield 68k vs 75k), while having the firepower of a fujin just not as much shield power. The output of a 3xorkan = 60480*3 = 181440k. 2xThunder = 147,200. So more powerful than a Carnage with Thunders, faster as well, has the firepower of a Fujin without the limitation of the shield of the fujin (no movement), with more HP of the two, just a little less shield than a Fujin. Yes It has a weakness on open maps, this is only if there are Zeus/Trebs and only in the areas where there's no cover. That covers 99% of all the other bots. |
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