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Post by Muhlakai on Aug 8, 2017 11:06:55 GMT -5
The simple way to not have to think about all this stuff, is to set aside some money each month to put into your War Robots hobby. Sometimes people talk as if people are idiots for spending real money on this hobby. Why? To me, it's no different from spending on other hobbies, food, movies, and so on. Well, no. Of course you shouldn't be taking my advice. You're a whale who will pay for what he wants. Totally different story. Fairly certain I specified that. Also: no judgement. Thanks for making this game I enjoy free for me to play!
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Aug 8, 2017 11:31:08 GMT -5
My pleasure
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Post by Shahmatt on Aug 11, 2017 2:30:08 GMT -5
Hear hear! Great post by Muhlakai. Actually, more than owning the Dashourge, I'm more excited about the prospect of taking them down. Preferably with my unfashionable Boa or Golem. There is a certain satisfaction to that. So bring it on!
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Post by moody on Aug 11, 2017 5:08:29 GMT -5
Missed this thread until now.
I am not the target audience. 6 days from a rajin which is the last bot needed to complete my collection. (Except for tempest). Dash is almost definitely on my horizon.
I have over 10k au saved up and will have at least 60mil silver at the end of August. I hope that is enough to do something but i will be holding off at least two weeks to see what shakes out.
If for some reason dash bots do not pass muster i will probably start getting paint jobs.
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Post by seanh on Aug 11, 2017 5:39:57 GMT -5
Missed this thread until now. I am not the target audience. 6 days from a rajin which is the last bot needed to complete my collection. (Except for tempest). Dash is almost definitely on my horizon. I have over 10k au saved up and will have at least 60mil silver at the end of August. I hope that is enough to do something but i will be holding off at least two weeks to see what shakes out. If for some reason dash bots do not pass muster i will probably start getting paint jobs. Well if the Dashes arn't for Au then my hanger will be gettings skins all around.
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Post by Golden Sabre on Aug 11, 2017 5:41:09 GMT -5
I'm Avereage Joe and I approve this message
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Post by shakingrabbit on Aug 11, 2017 8:35:33 GMT -5
The argument seems to be predicated on the idea that you NEED to level up the bots for them to be playable. The statement is false.
If being generous and we say the argument is predicated on the bots being leveled to be competitive I would also argue that is false.
1) playing a low level bot allows you to focus on the bots particular mechanics instead of trying to be the most awesomest thing on the battlefield. This knowledge pays dividends the higher up in leagues you go and against changing metas as you allude to
2) learning to evade or seek cover in low level bots is a skill that can further be carried forward to when the bots get leveled up. This is especially true of the dash bots which appear to have relatively lower health and are built around evasion and blitz tactics.
3) It takes one day to get most bots up to level 5 without speeding along upgrades.
+
4) You can be competitive with level 5 gear in Android Gold with the current meta.
+
5) The dashes are purported to be waaaay OP out the gate.
=
They will be competitive day one by average joe.
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Post by Muhlakai on Aug 11, 2017 8:58:42 GMT -5
The argument seems to be predicated on the idea that you NEED to level up the bots for them to be playable. The statement is false. If being generous and we say the argument is predicated on the bots being leveled to be competitive I would also argue that is false. They will be competitive day one by average joe. While your comments have a lot of value for becoming a better player, they have no weight in whether someone should save up and not buy what their hangar should already have. Also, it clearly ignores plenty of cases where underleveled bots (especially when they were first released) were liabilities in a hangar, rather than just being less powerful, like the shieldbots and the WW Bunch. Of *course* any average joe will eventually be able to pilot whatever new thing well, but in the mean time they should clearly be spending that time going through your list of skill-building activities with bots they should already be buying anyhow. We can agree that people will become better players by driving different bots in as many situations as possible. My argument isn't "you can't drive an underpowered bot," but rather, "don't deny yourself the fun of other bots you should be trying anyhow in order to have less fun when he apple of your eye is released, too." ...and waiting because you *expect* a set of bots to be OP? You haven't been around for the last several releases, have you?
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Post by shakingrabbit on Aug 11, 2017 16:28:45 GMT -5
While your comments have a lot of value for becoming a better player, they have no weight in whether someone should save up and not buy what their hangar should already have. Your original post implies that there is no value in playing a low level dash bot --> must wait for level up --> by which time counters have been developed --> may as well buy what you want now. Of course my comments apply to War Robots in general but they are even more applicable to the daash bots which introduces a whole new mechanic to the War Robots universe (two if you count the ability to stack dashes). I would argue that ALL underleveled bots are a liability, but that's another conversation. Being a liability does not equate "useless" or "unplayable". See argument above and original argument. I will have to disagree on the shield bots as well. They were billed as meta changing and quickly became so when they became available to the general public. They did not seem OP for a couple of reasons a) Pix did not allow them in lower tiers b) cost were relatively low which allowed c) the adoption rate was such that they provided a counter to each other. But they clealy were OP at the time of introduction and a low level brit could "turn the tide of the match" or something like that. The WW bots were never any of those. I agree that players should try out bots they want to but why NOT wait? Indications are the prices on the dashes are going to be high to astronomical. It is not as if these bots or skill building scenarios are going to be disappear or will take a long time for the opportunity to take advantage of to arise. Whereas the grind for more Au is...a grind. Have you? See above if you are referring specifically to bot releases, otherwise: Pix has made it pretty clear about the changes they want to inplement and the direction of the game they want to go in...irregardless of player feedback. Rocket buff. Weapon buffs. Nerfs to Brits. UI change. Timing of the release may be an issue but not the desired effect. Sure go ahead and buy the brits if you must but why NOT wait. As I posted in my original reply, it doesn't take long to get up to level 5.
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Post by Muhlakai on Aug 11, 2017 22:38:58 GMT -5
Yikes. Multi-part replies? Um, bugger. Ok. I suppose I appreciate the specificity. While your comments have a lot of value for becoming a better player, they have no weight in whether someone should save up and not buy what their hangar should already have. Your original post implies that there is no value in playing a low level dash bot. Yeah, so you're not quite understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying that folks aren't going to have as much fun by.... A) denying themselves the fun and experience of playing other useful bots that are already available (and they'll probably need to also buy at some point anyhow), and B) waiting an indeterminate, unpredictable, and (often) increasingly long time, and C) then having neither the skill that they would have had by driving the other bots first, AND D) not wanting to plunk down the cash that the whales will. ...and so as a result they should be working on improving themselves and their hangars NOW instead of slowing their own personal progress. It has everything to do with the fact that you're almost certain to have more fun if you don't wait, which has been echoed and agreed to by many in this thread even BEYOND the nearly 20 folks (as of right now) who liked the post already. Please also note that I'm *telling* folks to use a low-level bot *right now.* That fact alone kind of undermines your whole objection. Yeah, this is unfortunately just historical error. As someone who's been playing longer than both of the releases in question I can tell you that the shields were waaay too flimsy at anything below about level 9 and were actually buffed before they became usable at lv 7-8. And they WERE allowed in the lower tiers when you first purchased them but the MM penalty got tacked on slowly over about a week but very few folks bothered with them in the low tiers because, as I mentioned, they were just too fragile. Also, it was balance changes Post-release that changed the meta, as well as discoveries like the ancilot that came many months after release. There's a great reason not to wait: folks who wait just won't be as good at playing as they would be if they expanded their experience right now. Who's going to do better in a fancy, new bot: the less- or more- experienced player? Also: we have *no idea* what the cost will ACTUALLY be until they actually arrive, which is something Pix has demonstrated time and time again with both weapons and bots ...if you can even buy the bots with something other than a special one-time event currency in the first place! Your argument here also hinges on the idea that playing with bots purchased now can't possibly be as much fun as buying new bots or weapons on Day 1. The problem is that chasing the meta like that isn't actually fun, long-term. (But don't take my word for it, take the word of other folks in this thread who have shared their pain from chasing the meta.) When the shieldbots came out there were plenty of folks who had buyers' remorse because the bots didn't seem to fit their play style and no one knew the best way to use them yet. Your argument requires someone to be afraid of being left out, but the reality of the last three or four bot releases shows that that's never the case. Yes, actually, I have been here much longer than that. And in case you're in doubt you can check both my join date here and my join date on the old wiki to see that I've been here more than long enough to see them. (I got made a TC shortly after the old forums were closed in favor of these forums.) And in case you thought I was simply inactive you can also see my entire post history.
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Post by shakingrabbit on Aug 11, 2017 23:03:55 GMT -5
Yikes. Multi-part replies? Um, bugger. Ok. I suppose I appreciate the specificity. Your original post implies that there is no value in playing a low level dash bot. Yeah, so you're not quite understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying that folks aren't going to have as much fun by.... A) denying themselves the fun and experience of playing other useful bots that are already available (and they'll probably need to also buy at some point anyhow), and B) waiting an indeterminate, unpredictable, and (often) increasingly long time, and C) then having neither the skill that they would have had by driving the other bots first, AND D) not wanting to plunk down the cash that the whales will. ...and so as a result they should be working on improving themselves and their hangars NOW instead of slowing their own personal progress. It has everything to do with the fact that you're almost certain to have more fun if you don't wait, which has been echoed and agreed to by many in this thread even BEYOND the nearly 20 folks (as of right now) who liked the post already. Please also note that I'm *telling* folks to use a low-level bot *right now.* That fact alone kind of undermines your whole objection. Yeah, this is unfortunately just historical error. As someone who's been playing longer than both of the releases in question I can tell you that the shields were waaay too flimsy at anything below about level 9 and were actually buffed before they became usable at lv 7-8. And they WERE allowed in the lower tiers when you first purchased them but the MM penalty got tacked on slowly over about a week but very few folks bothered with them in the low tiers because, as I mentioned, they were just too fragile. Also, it was balance changes Post-release that changed the meta, as well as discoveries like the ancilot that came many months after release. There's a great reason not to wait: folks who wait just won't be as good at playing as they would be if they expanded their experience right now. Who's going to do better in a fancy, new bot: the less- or more- experienced player? Also: we have *no idea* what the cost will ACTUALLY be until they actually arrive, which is something Pix has demonstrated time and time again with both weapons and bots ...if you can even buy the bots with something other than a special one-time event currency in the first place! Your argument here also hinges on the idea that playing with bots purchased now can't possibly be as much fun as buying new bots or weapons on Day 1. The problem is that chasing the meta like that isn't actually fun, long-term. (But don't take my word for it, take the word of other folks in this thread who have shared their pain from chasing the meta.) When the shieldbots came out there were plenty of folks who had buyers' remorse because the bots didn't seem to fit their play style and no one knew the best way to use them yet. Your argument requires someone to be afraid of being left out, but the reality of the last three or four bot releases shows that that's never the case. Yes, actually, I have been here much longer than that. And in case you're in doubt you can check both my join date here and my join date on the old wiki to see that I've been here more than long enough to see them. (I got made a TC shortly after the old forums were closed in favor of these forums.) And in case you thought I was simply inactive you can also see my entire post history. Lol, totally rhetorical question that last one. In any case I am of the opinion that players should wait and wanted to bring an opposing viewpoint is all.
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Post by Muhlakai on Aug 11, 2017 23:11:00 GMT -5
Lol, totally rhetorical question that last one. In any case I am of the opinion that players should wait and wanted to bring an opposing viewpoint is all. Fair enough, but did you have any reasons that didn't include historical error, fear of meta shifts that haven't happened before, or a misunderstanding of whether I was telling people they shouldn't play low-level bots? ...because I'm not sure what the rationale was. #ActuallyCurious
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 23:52:13 GMT -5
Some great discussion here. The only points I would respectfully add are:
1) my sense is pix is going make the dashes pretty strong. We saw the WW bots hit the scene and underwhelm. I am betting the over line on the next bots.
2) when I advise ppl to save, it's usually guys thinking about buying their first Lance for 5000 au. I suspect the age of the Lance maybe in its Twilight. Armor shredding, dash bots, tulu buffs. Lots of tweaks seem aimed at reducing the Lance's effectiveness. Somewhere somebody bought a Geppard right before they became obsolete. Lance will never be obsolete but the Returns on the 5000 gold are diminishing.
Cheers!
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Post by shakingrabbit on Aug 15, 2017 18:15:02 GMT -5
Lol, totally rhetorical question that last one. In any case I am of the opinion that players should wait and wanted to bring an opposing viewpoint is all. Fair enough, but did you have any reasons that didn't include historical error, fear of meta shifts that haven't happened before, or a misunderstanding of whether I was telling people they shouldn't play low-level bots? ...because I'm not sure what the rationale was. #ActuallyCurious Ok, I'll concede the history to you as I came into War Robots a little after the intro (I still remember them tearing it up oit the gate but I'll concede this point) but fear of meta shifts? Misunderstand? I suggest you reread your OP. Again, your OP is predicated on the premise that a low level is "useless until upgraded." Then you shift into a "fear the change in strategy to counter your dash". I think I laid out a pretty good synopsis of your OP and an effective argument in opposition to your advice in my responses, which you really did not refute btw, but if you want more: 1) there is no compelling reason NOT to WAIT. The brits were nerfed in 2.9.x, nerfed again in 3.0 will be nerfed again with the kinetic buff, and the dashes will be OP. Even if you don't buy that the dashes will be OP or that they will introduce the kinetic buff, fact is pix has been re-working the game to be againat the brits. Doesn't mean they can't be played, no, not at all. But doesn't make them a compelling buy either. 2) there's plenty to do in the meantime with the awesome addition of Beacon Rush. You could spend the next week playing, strategizing and learning this mode and not notice the lack of a brit bot in your hangar. The week after that, take that BR hangar aand test it out in the regular mode. You've chewed two weeks right there already. Of course if you REALLY want that Ancilot NOW by all means. But other players would be better served if they were told to wait a couple more weeks.
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Post by Muhlakai on Aug 15, 2017 23:01:36 GMT -5
1) there is no compelling reason NOT to WAIT. The brits were nerfed in 2.9.x, nerfed again in 3.0 will be nerfed again with the kinetic buff. Doesn't mean they can't be played, no, not at all. But doesn't make them a compelling buy either. 2) there's plenty to do in the meantime with the awesome addition of Beacon Rush. You could spend the next week playing, strategizing and learning this mode and not notice the lack of a brit bot in your hangar. The week after that, take that BR hangar aand test it out in the regular mode. You've chewed two weeks right there already. Britbots not being a compelling buy does not mean that there aren't things folks should be buying. There are both Au and WSP buying guides on the wiki, as well as more stuff that people need to round out hangars. Perhaps a pair of Zeuses for that Carnage, or an ancilot (which is clearly somehing Pix DOES want to see more of on the field), or some Tridents. Maybe they need a hard charger and haven't ever bought a rhino. Unless they're more or less heading into the end game there's surely lots to do right now. ...and not all of it needs to be premium currency. Maybe what they really need is to upgrade their bot or weapons. In nature all life is either growing or dying. The point is to never stop. ...and I couldn't agree more that there's a zillion things to do in BR (that is, unless you're iOS like me.....) and that rebalancing, rebuilding, and retesting are all critical steps. I'm not saying that folks should spend every coin they have every time, all the time. I'm saying that they shouldn't stop doing everything because they think the game is practically on pause until that next big thing comes out. I'm saying stay in constant metaphorical movement with your hangar *all the time.*
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Post by dreamslayer28 on Aug 15, 2017 23:50:38 GMT -5
I'm Avereage Joe and I approve this message Average* NAZI ACTIVATED. Kidding!
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