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Post by pirateb0t on Jul 16, 2017 21:45:52 GMT -5
Update still hasn't dropped on IOS yet so i'm wondering if TT fury is as bad as people say it is now post update. Seems like missiles have turned into LOS bullet weapons where you need to hit exactly on target or they fly off into the horizon and splash has been nerfed into nothing.
What's the point of the TT fury if it's a bullet weapon now? Pix should change it to single volley high damage.
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Post by BLYTHE on Jul 16, 2017 21:55:36 GMT -5
A few things. 1. Hydras have made furies in general annoying to run. 2. More people using molots. 3. More using zeus carnage. 4. Predominance of ancilles have made them less effective. 5. More moved to zeus since they fixed the bug. 6. Most people only play with one midrange and RDBs are better for most maps. 7. Most maps aren't fury-friendly. 8. I think they may have reduced splash radius (not certain of this though).
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Post by WilsonK on Jul 16, 2017 22:19:39 GMT -5
A few things. 1. Hydras have made furies in general annoying to run. 2. More people using molots. 3. More using zeus carnage. 4. Predominance of ancilles have made them less effective. 5. More moved to zeus since they fixed the bug. 6. Most people only play with one midrange and RDBs are better for most maps. 7. Most maps aren't fury-friendly.8. I think they may have reduced splash radius (not certain of this though). "7. Most maps aren't fury-friendly" This bro.. THIS HAHAHAHA
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Post by WilsonK on Jul 16, 2017 22:20:16 GMT -5
Update still hasn't dropped on IOS yet so i'm wondering if TT fury is as bad as people say it is now post update. Seems like missiles have turned into LOS bullet weapons where you need to hit exactly on target or they fly off into the horizon and splash has been nerfed into nothing. What's the point of the TT fury if it's a bullet weapon now? Pix should change it to single volley high damage. Time to run a TA fury! Triple Ancile!! BEER ANYONE? I'VE GOT 3 KEGS ON ME HAHAHAHA!!
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Post by 0ppressor on Jul 17, 2017 2:08:13 GMT -5
If you get the same update Android has, Tridents and all other rockets will lose proximity detonation. In other words, if you do not actually connect the rocket with the target, it will simply continue along it's path. No more free splash damaging bots behind cover/corners, unless you hit a bot next to them that's not behind cover/a corner. This is the fix for the backpeddling bug where one couod run a fast enough bot that when rockets would explode due to being within the proximity of the target, the bots would receive no damage as they could outpace the explosion radius/speed.
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Post by carnage on Jul 17, 2017 2:43:05 GMT -5
If you get the same update Android has, Tridents and all other rockets will lose proximity detonation. In other words, if you do not actually connect the rocket with the target, it will simply continue along it's path. No more free splash damaging bots behind cover/corners, unless you hit a bot next to them that's not behind cover/a corner. This is the fix for the backpeddling bug where one couod run a fast enough bot that when rockets would explode due to being within the proximity of the target, the bots would receive no damage as they could outpace the explosion radius/speed. While it makes sense, and it is definitely welcomed in the case of RDB that looked somewhat OP, it looks to be a kiss of death for Tridents. Especially you have less missiles so the connection becomes critical.
I just don't see the sense in Tridents anymore.
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apro8
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Post by apro8 on Jul 17, 2017 2:50:39 GMT -5
If you get the same update Android has, Tridents and all other rockets will lose proximity detonation. In other words, if you do not actually connect the rocket with the target, it will simply continue along it's path. No more free splash damaging bots behind cover/corners, unless you hit a bot next to them that's not behind cover/a corner. This is the fix for the backpeddling bug where one couod run a fast enough bot that when rockets would explode due to being within the proximity of the target, the bots would receive no damage as they could outpace the explosion radius/speed. While it makes sense, and it is definitely welcomed in the case of RDB that looked somewhat OP, it looks to be a kiss of death for Tridents. Especially you have less missiles so the connection becomes critical.
I just don't see the sense in Tridents anymore.
Well then rhinos truly are dead. Rip the trident fury as well, it was a favourite among many ive got to say. Time for the good old r/db griffs. And those ancilots.
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Miratum
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Post by Miratum on Jul 17, 2017 4:44:02 GMT -5
If you get the same update Android has, Tridents and all other rockets will lose proximity detonation. Didn't get this change .. but i wondered why my rockets aren't hitting any more .. now i know what happened .... EDIT: Update reference? Can't see that change has be mentioned anywhere.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jul 17, 2017 8:14:34 GMT -5
To be fair, its performance was suffering before, too many anciles. About the only thing you wouldn't mind seeing is a carnage. Other than that you needed help.
Granted, this is a teamwork oriented game, so teamwork is encouraged, but can't be neccisarry for a bot or build to thrive, and that's the space the fury trident now occupies. Sure 2 of em can still hurt things bad, but NEEDING 2 is just poor.
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Post by 0ppressor on Jul 17, 2017 9:15:28 GMT -5
If you get the same update Android has, Tridents and all other rockets will lose proximity detonation. Didn't get this change .. but i wondered why my rockets aren't hitting any more .. now i know what happened .... EDIT: Update reference? Can't see that change has be mentioned anywhere. warrobots.net/en/2017/06/26/291-patch-notes/Guess I could be wrong as I thought it was patch 2.9.2.
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Miratum
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Post by Miratum on Jul 17, 2017 9:31:18 GMT -5
Didn't get this change .. but i wondered why my rockets aren't hitting any more .. now i know what happened .... EDIT: Update reference? Can't see that change has be mentioned anywhere. warrobots.net/en/2017/06/26/291-patch-notes/Guess I could be wrong as I thought it was patch 2.9.2. Well .. patch notes referes to the bug ... not mentionig that it removes proximity detonation at all ... and as you mention ... the bug fix you linked here is from 2.9.1 - the problems that I experience (that looks like being linked to the proximity detonation) started with patch 2.9.2 - but there is nothing like that mentioned.
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Post by SGT D00M! on Jul 17, 2017 9:39:25 GMT -5
For everyone crying about loss of splash damage, you know if a bot is hugging a corner or wall, you can still hit the wall and get damage on the bot right?
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Miratum
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Post by Miratum on Jul 17, 2017 9:43:48 GMT -5
For everyone crying about loss of splash damage, you know if a bot is hugging a corner or wall, you can still hit the wall and get damage on the bot right? My experinence is, that some walls (Yamatau center beacon i.e.) are blocking damage completely or you just don't deal damage when hitting the wall.
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Post by SGT D00M! on Jul 17, 2017 9:46:59 GMT -5
For everyone crying about loss of splash damage, you know if a bot is hugging a corner or wall, you can still hit the wall and get damage on the bot right? My experinence is, that some walls (Yamatau center beacon i.e.) are blocking damage completely or you just don't deal damage when hitting the wall. If that's true, then it is a bad day for.trident users. I will have to test this out.
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Post by Why? on Jul 17, 2017 9:52:57 GMT -5
Every Rocket (yes, Trident is a Rocket) setup is almost dead after they removed Proximity detonation.
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Miratum
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Post by Miratum on Jul 17, 2017 9:59:41 GMT -5
Every Rocket (yes, Trident is a Rocket) setup is almost dead after they removed Proximity detonation. Once again, as you only mention they removed it ... update reference? or is it a hidden change?
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Post by 0ppressor on Jul 17, 2017 10:07:19 GMT -5
Well .. patch notes referes to the bug ... not mentionig that it removes proximity detonation at all ... and as you mention ... the bug fix you linked here is from 2.9.1 - the problems that I experience (that looks like being linked to the proximity detonation) started with patch 2.9.2 - but there is nothing like that mentioned. I understand, and agree, hence why I said I guess I could be wrong. However, as it is in line with the same mechanic, and the proximity detonation mechanic is known to have an unintended consequence, and not everything is always in the patch notes (look up the prior Punisher and Orkan 'buffs'), it seems a natural progression of the bug resolution. If it truly is not a bug fix, then we have about a month of this as Pixonic is pretty good about trying to fix their game, even if we don't always agree with their solutions.
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Post by Why? on Jul 17, 2017 10:27:31 GMT -5
Every Rocket (yes, Trident is a Rocket) setup is almost dead after they removed Proximity detonation. Once again, as you only mention they removed it ... update reference? or is it a hidden change? Some effects are not mentioned in the patch notes, whether they be buffs or nerfs- For example in a patch note before they mentioned they increased damage of Punishers and Molots, but didn't mention they decreased firing rates, which actually made them weaker instead.
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Post by bugdoc on Jul 17, 2017 11:01:06 GMT -5
Just a quick clarification and a suggestion for Pix. What we had before wasn't a proximity fuse - it was a time fuse. Time fuses detonate ordnance at a given range based on the time in flight. Previously rockets in War Robots were set to explode at the distance of the target at the time of launch, thus you didn't have to be perfectly on target to do damage but fast bots could backpeddle out of the blast zone. Now it sounds like Pix has solved the 'problem' of backpeddling by going to a simple contact fuse. However, that will seriously cripple the historical utility of rockets in this game. If they want to make backpeddling more difficult without crippling the utility of rockets, I would suggest that they use an actual proximity fuse. Proximity fuses continuously sense the distance to their targets and detonate when they get into effective range. In War Robots, they could determine what effective radius they think a particular rocket should have (say, 10m for a Tulu/Pin). Once the rocket is fired, it will sense any red bot that comes within that 10m radius. It will not detonate while that radius is decreasing (to allow for direct hits), but will detonate once it detects the range to target start to increase again (this will allow for hits on targets hiding around corners). In other words, if you miss the target by 2m, once the rocket goes past and the ranges opens to 3m it will detonate. Rockets will also have a time fuse that will automatically detonate them at their max range (just like now). If Pix was concerned about excessive splash damage, they could institute a simple metric to limit that. In the case of the 10m radius for the Tulu/Pin, you could have it do 100% damage at 0-2m, 75% damage at 3-4m, 50% damage at 5-7m, and 25% damage at 8-10m. This would make the use of rockets more realistic and return at least some of their historical utility in War Robots.
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Miratum
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Post by Miratum on Jul 17, 2017 11:06:45 GMT -5
Just a quick clarification and a suggestion for Pix. What we had before wasn't a proximity fuse - it was a time fuse. Time fuses detonate ordnance at a given range based on the time in flight. Previously rockets in War Robots were set to explode at the distance of the target at the time of launch, thus you didn't have to be perfectly on target to do damage but fast bots could backpeddle out of the blast zone. Now it sounds like Pix has solved the 'problem' of backpeddling by going to a simple contact fuse. However, that will seriously cripple the historical utility of rockets in this game. If they want to make backpeddling more difficult without crippling the utility of rockets, I would suggest that they use an actual proximity fuse. Proximity fuses continuously sense the distance to their targets and detonate when they get into effective range. In War Robots, they could determine what effective radius they think a particular rocket should have (say, 10m for a Tulu/Pin). Once the rocket is fired, it will sense any red bot that comes within that 10m radius. It will not detonate while that radius is decreasing (to allow for direct hits), but will detonate once it detects the range to target start to increase again (this will allow for hits on targets hiding around corners). In other words, if you miss the target by 2m, once the rocket goes past and the ranges opens to 3m it will detonate. Rockets will also have a time fuse that will automatically detonate them at their max range (just like now). If Pix was concerned about excessive splash damage, they could institute a simple metric to limit that. In the case of the 10m radius for the Tulu/Pin, you could have it do 100% damage at 0-2m, 75% damage at 3-4m, 50% damage at 5-7m, and 25% damage at 8-10m. This would make the use of rockets more realistic and return at least some of their historical utility in War Robots. or something like 100% damage on heavy bots, 85% on mediums, 75% on lights? (Smaller surface, less kinetic effect)
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Post by jazzykat on Jul 17, 2017 11:18:04 GMT -5
Just a quick clarification and a suggestion for Pix. What we had before wasn't a proximity fuse - it was a time fuse. Time fuses detonate ordnance at a given range based on the time in flight. Previously rockets in War Robots were set to explode at the distance of the target at the time of launch, thus you didn't have to be perfectly on target to do damage but fast bots could backpeddle out of the blast zone. Now it sounds like Pix has solved the 'problem' of backpeddling by going to a simple contact fuse. However, that will seriously cripple the historical utility of rockets in this game. If they want to make backpeddling more difficult without crippling the utility of rockets, I would suggest that they use an actual proximity fuse. Proximity fuses continuously sense the distance to their targets and detonate when they get into effective range. In War Robots, they could determine what effective radius they think a particular rocket should have (say, 10m for a Tulu/Pin). Once the rocket is fired, it will sense any red bot that comes within that 10m radius. It will not detonate while that radius is decreasing (to allow for direct hits), but will detonate once it detects the range to target start to increase again (this will allow for hits on targets hiding around corners). In other words, if you miss the target by 2m, once the rocket goes past and the ranges opens to 3m it will detonate. Rockets will also have a time fuse that will automatically detonate them at their max range (just like now). If Pix was concerned about excessive splash damage, they could institute a simple metric to limit that. In the case of the 10m radius for the Tulu/Pin, you could have it do 100% damage at 0-2m, 75% damage at 3-4m, 50% damage at 5-7m, and 25% damage at 8-10m. This would make the use of rockets more realistic and return at least some of their historical utility in War Robots. Ah,,,now I got it. That is why I was wondering what the heck happened to my Orkans. I used to be able to shoot relatively close and damage the other guy, especially while they were in flight. Now I need to score a direct hit...that is why plasma griffs melt my DB griff at under 300m...They jump and light me up while my rockets miss while they are in flight, or I wait until they land and hopefully have perfect aim and can't empty my racks on them before their magnums finish me off. Rockets aren't garbage but I'm going to keep leveling up energy weapons because rockets are currently not worth the investment.
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Post by bugdoc on Jul 17, 2017 11:27:49 GMT -5
The more I think about my proximity fuse suggestion, the more I like it. Fast bots could still either dodge rockets or at least limit their damage by moving sideways - they just couldn't backpeddle anymore (unless they were already at max range). The cover around center beacon at Yam would be more effective, giving some incentive to stay and fight it out.
It just doesn't make sense to buff rockets with the reload feature only to apply a crippling nerf by changing the fuzing. Weird...
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jul 17, 2017 11:45:03 GMT -5
Just a quick clarification and a suggestion for Pix. What we had before wasn't a proximity fuse - it was a time fuse. Time fuses detonate ordnance at a given range based on the time in flight. Previously rockets in War Robots were set to explode at the distance of the target at the time of launch, thus you didn't have to be perfectly on target to do damage but fast bots could backpeddle out of the blast zone. Now it sounds like Pix has solved the 'problem' of backpeddling by going to a simple contact fuse. However, that will seriously cripple the historical utility of rockets in this game. If they want to make backpeddling more difficult without crippling the utility of rockets, I would suggest that they use an actual proximity fuse. Proximity fuses continuously sense the distance to their targets and detonate when they get into effective range. In War Robots, they could determine what effective radius they think a particular rocket should have (say, 10m for a Tulu/Pin). Once the rocket is fired, it will sense any red bot that comes within that 10m radius. It will not detonate while that radius is decreasing (to allow for direct hits), but will detonate once it detects the range to target start to increase again (this will allow for hits on targets hiding around corners). In other words, if you miss the target by 2m, once the rocket goes past and the ranges opens to 3m it will detonate. Rockets will also have a time fuse that will automatically detonate them at their max range (just like now). If Pix was concerned about excessive splash damage, they could institute a simple metric to limit that. In the case of the 10m radius for the Tulu/Pin, you could have it do 100% damage at 0-2m, 75% damage at 3-4m, 50% damage at 5-7m, and 25% damage at 8-10m. This would make the use of rockets more realistic and return at least some of their historical utility in War Robots. That would be a good compromise... but short of that, I am happier with things they way they are now than how they were... the timed fuse was shutting out some of the best and most fun bots. Trident Furies, before Ancile, were absolute proof of that but I didn't want a "nerf" per se, because the damage wasn't completely ridiculous since it IS a heavy weapon. Splash radius, while large, was supposed to be... but full damage at the very edge of the radius? Then, walk one meter out of the radius and zero damage? I never could get behind the theory of "Oh, hes 20 ft from the corner? I'll shoot the air next to the corner and it will magically blow up and kill him." However... I can get behind "Oh? H'es 20 ft from the corner? I'll shoot the air next to the corner and it will cause him a little bit of damage." RDBs were just as ridiculous and the "100% splash without impact" mechanic was making it so that anything that was not able to jump or did not have an ancile was NOT going to last long. Now, I can run the bots that have less than 100k HP and go less than 60 Km/h and not expect them to only last a moment. My Galahad is back. Even though your suggestion would make that a little harder, it is at least a compromise to both sides instead of all or nothing. IMO, YMMV
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Miratum
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Post by Miratum on Jul 17, 2017 11:52:41 GMT -5
Just a quick clarification and a suggestion for Pix. What we had before wasn't a proximity fuse - it was a time fuse. Time fuses detonate ordnance at a given range based on the time in flight. Previously rockets in War Robots were set to explode at the distance of the target at the time of launch, thus you didn't have to be perfectly on target to do damage but fast bots could backpeddle out of the blast zone. Now it sounds like Pix has solved the 'problem' of backpeddling by going to a simple contact fuse. However, that will seriously cripple the historical utility of rockets in this game. If they want to make backpeddling more difficult without crippling the utility of rockets, I would suggest that they use an actual proximity fuse. Proximity fuses continuously sense the distance to their targets and detonate when they get into effective range. In War Robots, they could determine what effective radius they think a particular rocket should have (say, 10m for a Tulu/Pin). Once the rocket is fired, it will sense any red bot that comes within that 10m radius. It will not detonate while that radius is decreasing (to allow for direct hits), but will detonate once it detects the range to target start to increase again (this will allow for hits on targets hiding around corners). In other words, if you miss the target by 2m, once the rocket goes past and the ranges opens to 3m it will detonate. Rockets will also have a time fuse that will automatically detonate them at their max range (just like now). If Pix was concerned about excessive splash damage, they could institute a simple metric to limit that. In the case of the 10m radius for the Tulu/Pin, you could have it do 100% damage at 0-2m, 75% damage at 3-4m, 50% damage at 5-7m, and 25% damage at 8-10m. This would make the use of rockets more realistic and return at least some of their historical utility in War Robots. That would be a good compromise... but short of that, I am happier with things they way they are now than how they were... the timed fuse was shutting out some of the best and most fun bots. Trident Furies, before Ancile, were absolute proof of that but I didn't want a "nerf" per se, because the damage wasn't completely ridiculous since it IS a heavy weapon. Splash radius, while large, was supposed to be... but full damage at the very edge of the radius? Then, walk one meter out of the radius and zero damage? I never could get behind the theory of "Oh, hes 20 ft from the corner? I'll shoot the air next to the corner and it will magically blow up and kill him." However... I can get behind "Oh? H'es 20 ft from the corner? I'll shoot the air next to the corner and it will cause him a little bit of damage." RDBs were just as ridiculous and the "100% splash without impact" mechanic was making it so that anything that was not able to jump or did not have an ancile was NOT going to last long. Now, I can run the bots that have less than 100k HP and go less than 60 Km/h and not expect them to only last a moment. My Galahad is back. Even though your suggestion would make that a little harder, it is at least a compromise to both sides instead of all or nothing. IMO, YMMV Just checked it ... EVERY rocket weapon mentiones that it can damage bots with cover ...
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Post by bugdoc on Jul 17, 2017 12:08:18 GMT -5
That would be a good compromise... but short of that, I am happier with things they way they are now than how they were... the timed fuse was shutting out some of the best and most fun bots. Trident Furies, before Ancile, were absolute proof of that but I didn't want a "nerf" per se, because the damage wasn't completely ridiculous since it IS a heavy weapon. Splash radius, while large, was supposed to be... but full damage at the very edge of the radius? Then, walk one meter out of the radius and zero damage? I never could get behind the theory of "Oh, hes 20 ft from the corner? I'll shoot the air next to the corner and it will magically blow up and kill him." However... I can get behind "Oh? H'es 20 ft from the corner? I'll shoot the air next to the corner and it will cause him a little bit of damage." RDBs were just as ridiculous and the "100% splash without impact" mechanic was making it so that anything that was not able to jump or did not have an ancile was NOT going to last long. Now, I can run the bots that have less than 100k HP and go less than 60 Km/h and not expect them to only last a moment. My Galahad is back. Even though your suggestion would make that a little harder, it is at least a compromise to both sides instead of all or nothing. IMO, YMMV Just checked it ... EVERY rocket weapon mentiones that it can damage bots with cover ... I haven't seen the update (I'm on iOS), so I'm just going by what everyone here is describing. Pix may not have updated the descriptions yet (may be waiting for the iOS update to drop).
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Post by Why? on Jul 17, 2017 12:42:57 GMT -5
Just checked it ... EVERY rocket weapon mentiones that it can damage bots with cover ... I haven't seen the update (I'm on iOS), so I'm just going by what everyone here is describing. Pix may not have updated the descriptions yet (may be waiting for the iOS update to drop). Well...not like there aren't examples of Pix not accurately describing their tooltips. For example, Hydra says it can't damage bots with high speed- It can.
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Post by 0ppressor on Jul 17, 2017 14:07:21 GMT -5
That would be a good compromise... but short of that, I am happier with things they way they are now than how they were... the timed fuse was shutting out some of the best and most fun bots. Trident Furies, before Ancile, were absolute proof of that but I didn't want a "nerf" per se, because the damage wasn't completely ridiculous since it IS a heavy weapon. Splash radius, while large, was supposed to be... but full damage at the very edge of the radius? Then, walk one meter out of the radius and zero damage? I never could get behind the theory of "Oh, hes 20 ft from the corner? I'll shoot the air next to the corner and it will magically blow up and kill him." However... I can get behind "Oh? H'es 20 ft from the corner? I'll shoot the air next to the corner and it will cause him a little bit of damage." RDBs were just as ridiculous and the "100% splash without impact" mechanic was making it so that anything that was not able to jump or did not have an ancile was NOT going to last long. Now, I can run the bots that have less than 100k HP and go less than 60 Km/h and not expect them to only last a moment. My Galahad is back. Even though your suggestion would make that a little harder, it is at least a compromise to both sides instead of all or nothing. IMO, YMMV Just checked it ... EVERY rocket weapon mentiones that it can damage bots with cover ... You still can. Hit a target not in cover next to a target behind cover, but without the cover between them, and the splash damage from your rocket(s) will (still) damage the bot behind cover. Have had this happen to me still since 2.9.2.
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Post by Trogon on Jul 17, 2017 14:34:31 GMT -5
I'm not sure about this "rockets only explode on contact" thing others are describing. I'm pretty sure my DB, RDB and TT Fury are all still doing splash damage when aimed near the target, although it does seem the radius may be somewhat reduced.
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Post by shivaswrath on Jul 17, 2017 14:45:35 GMT -5
Treb or Zeus is where you want your money now. Why? Griffs move too fast at the last second, and your tridents are slow. Stop upgrading your tridents....
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Post by robocain on Jul 17, 2017 15:07:51 GMT -5
I never successfully jumped on the Triple Trident Fury train even though I have three tridents. I didn't get around to leveling them properly. Right now I'm running a Triple Tempest Fury at 9/9/9/9 and it rocks. Very entertaining setup in comparison to the usual sniper build gameplay.
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