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Post by Russel on Jul 2, 2017 9:54:44 GMT -5
DISCLAIMER: this read is designed for those guys who are NOT bathing in Gold and do not use Gold to speed up upgrades. HOWEVER: if you ARE using gold to speed up upgrades - I got a tip just for you! Scroll down to the "Advanced" section, I promise it's there. DISCLAIMER2: this read is designed for players with a decent skill, who do NOT rely on the hangar strength alone. If you believe that hangar level is the single most important thing that defines your league standing - please skip this article altogether. Upgrade.I like the sound of that. Let's say it together "Up-grade"... Almost as we can hear the metal clanking sound of "Upgrade complete." With such long times, high price and only single upgrade slot available, upgrade strategy is almost as crucial part of the game as the battle itself. So, it's important to know what's what in this complex world of upgrades. As usual, we start with: "No ?Cow Chips?, just the tips" section:  - Get your bots to either 4, 6 or 10 level (depending on your League\Silver amount)
- Get your weapons to level 4, 8 or 10 (depending on your League\Silver amount)
- Upgrade weapons before bots (keep discrepancy no more than 2 levels though)
- Make faster upgrades first (keep discrepancy no more than 2 levels though)
- If you must, use Gold to speed up upgrade as soon as you started the upgrade.
Due to the TL;DR nature of this post I will divide it with "SPOILER" button for ease of read. Now let's start from basics, shall we? Basic stuff 1) Keep upgrades rolling all the times. In War Robots you can upgrade only SINGLE thing at the time; there are two mortal sins in the War Robots: forgetting about beacons and idling your upgrade shop. TIME, not the SILVER is the most valuable essence of the game. If you have no Silver to upgrade what you need right now - start upgrading secondary things; upgrade stuff you think is not worthy - you never know what would be buffed in the future. Just don't spend too much on it. 2) To make the best of your real life time (it is a thing, honestly) calculate upgrade times so that your upgrades are finished when you are not sleeping, around the phone and get access to the internet, to maximize upgrade performance. 3) Silver is far more important than gold. If you think you are making enough silver - think again. You need to grind 3,800,000 Silver each day, every day, for two weeks to max out single Griffin (weapons NOT included). Holidays, being sick, stuck at work, Internet is not good, don't have time for game - anything (or even all of it) can happen in two week’s time, and your upgrade would be interrupted. It's better to stock up some Silver upfront, or buy those VIP Premium stuff. Or join the testserver for free VIP. 4) Almost every bot (excluding the Gepard) gets its speed maxed out at level 9 5) Weapons upgraded ONLY in terms of damage (there are NO range, reload speed, clip size, fire speed upgrades) 6) Robots got their health, shield, energy shield and run speed upgraded. No upgrades for jump speed or range, cooldown times, torso turn speed, ability duration, hardpoints number or type. 7) Different weapons got different levels as "basic"; WP weaponry are usually comes at basic level 1; while gold weapons (save for Ancile) comes pre-upgraded to level 5. However, upgrading to level 5 usually is a breeze, both in terms of Silver and time. 8) Do not judge weapon\bot before you take it at least to lvl5~6 for comparison, because lvl1 Magnum (stock level) is worse than lvl5 Pinata (stock level) 9) Leo, Fury, Griffin and Natasha are pre-upgraded to level 6, so it's easy to use them as a "placeholder" bot, filling your new slot. Basically you can get a Leo(6)+ Thunder(5) +3xPinata(5) and it would be decent brawler straight out of the shop. 10) WARNING: It is VERY easy to misclick and finish upgrade for gold, be aware of it and DO NOT TOUCH UPPER CENTER SIDE OF THE SCREEN. So now you guys skip the boring newbie part, and now ready to crunch the numbers, so grab your friends Jack and Jim and let's roll out to the BUSINESS with actual NUMBERS, yay! Advanced stuff (the facts you ACTUALLY wanted to know)
It is just natural to presume that upgrades in War Robots are linear, because, for the most part, bots are getting +6% health per level, and weapons are getting +10% damage per level. However, there are more to the story, namely: Relationship between damage and HP Upgrade times Upgrade expenses Damage gain per silver\hour spent We will talk about all of this, with examples. What level is THE SWEET SPOT - for a bot\weapon.So, to answer to that question we must take into consideration the following: Silver cost, time cost, alternatives. We will address "alternatives" in the next two sections, so let's stick with expenses here. As you probably know - every next level, (with some notable exceptions) gives: +6% to Robot HP, Ancile and shields. +10% to Weapon damage +9% to Ancile (the one that is used in Heavy Slot) HP +different amount of speed to a robot; up to lvl9, so the usual idea for the bot is to take it to nine. Bots: But while percentage is the same, absolute numbers and price\time is not. Let the pictures speak for me:       As you can see, you are expenditures are rising, the higher the level - the more you pay for same 1K of health. However, "exchange rate" got several "turning point", where rate is somewhat steady, and then jumps afterwards namely: 4, 6, 10 - these are your "sweet spots" If we take speed buff at level9 into account - then your best bet is to get bots to lvl10 Weapons: Pretty much the same situation here:   with common misconception being that you need same number of shots from weapon of the same level to bring the bot down all the way, be it lvl1 bot and lvl1 weapon or lvl12 bot and lvl12 weapon; That is incorrect. Weapon damage increases faster than the bot's HP, so it's better to be in a lvl10 bot with lvl12 weapons than vice versa. Small example to illustrate - Schutze vs Trebuchet, Schutze's health, Trebuchet damage, Shots to kill a Schutze, How much in % one shot deals damage to bot.  As we can see from here, marginal gain stops somewhere at lvl8; The sweet spot, in terms of maximum “oomph” per Silver\Time spent would be level 8 for weapons. And as we can see from Silver and Time chart, it is a good idea to get all your weapons to lvl10, before getting anything to lvl11. Another curious fact is that dynamics of the "hits needed to bring bot down" is changing only at lvl4 and 8; what this means is that taking stuff to level5 changes the gameplay, and the next change is done after level8. In other words, piloting\shooting mistakes are pretty unimportant at levels 1~4, you need to be more careful after everybody pass lvl5, and it's dead serious after lvl8. NOTICE: After Punishers rebalance upgrade table is all messed for Punishers\PunishersMk2. Consult the wiki for the numbers (if anybody is interested in Punishers, anyway) Also, Ancile is getting +9% of hitpoints per level on average; it's wise to threat Ancile as a weapon, and upgrade it before upgrading your bot. Is it better to upgrade THE BIG GUNS or the SMALL GUNS first to the max levelBased on our first analytical section it is all related to the level of the equipment. So the best algorithm is the following: - Get biggest guns to lvl4 - Get smaller guns to lvl4 - Get bots to lvl4 Then rinse and repeat it for level 6, 8 and 10, correspondingly. Try NOT getting any single weapon more than +2 levels of you main hangar, because usually you can take 3~4 weapons up one level or single weapon up 2 levels. Example being: To take Thunder 8-9 it would take: 50 hours 6,000,000 Silver for the gain of +1104 DPS Alternative is to take FOUR Tarans 5-6 54 hours +380 DPS *4= +1520 DPS 600,000*4 = 2,400,000 So for almost 1/3 price and about the same time you are getting +40% DPS more Do I need to use Au to speed up upgrades? If yes - when is the time?If this is your first hangar being upgraded - then the answer is simply NO. Take your time to hone your skills. If it the additional equipment, and you MUST speed up upgrades - then start upgrade with Silver and click "finish upgrade" with Gold right away. The more time remains till upgrade completion - the more minutes you will save per Au spent. I have small pool of information, but it seems that the only thing in play here is time left. Item type, level, price does not play a role here. Graph looks approximately like this:  1) What to do if you are out of Silver. Of course, it is good thing to know it beforehand. So, consult WIKI to see how expensive upgrades will be. And then when your Silver is running low, and you got only 2~5 millions left, you can start upgrading some secondary stuff, just to keep upgrades rolling, and making more Silver in the meantime. And join Testserver - it gives you 24 hours of FREE VIP as a reward for the video\report, so you can make more Silver faster. 2) Is it worth upgrading things I am not planning to use? Actually yes; but use it as a "placeholder upgrade"; imagine that you need to upgrade some NEEDED weapon, but upgrade finishes at 5:00 AM, and you are not planning to get up until 9:00 AM. Upgrading some unimportant stuff comes handy here - you just upgrade some low-level stuff for 4 hours, and then start upgrading needed stuff, so that finishing time is shifted +4 hours. And you might need that weapon in the future anyway - if you got new bot or it would be buffed. Yet another bonus, provided by GreenEggsAndHam  |
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Post by Russel on Jul 2, 2017 9:58:32 GMT -5
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Post by mijapi300 on Jul 2, 2017 12:06:08 GMT -5
Excellent and in-depth post. Although, I do question one comparison entirely.
Upgrading one Thunder from 8 to 9 versus upgrading four Tarans from 5 to 6. There are a couple of things with that - first and foremost, no bot can hold four Tarans. Any bot with a heavy hardpoint can hold a Thunder. So you're comparing apples or oranges persay. So, this means you have to have at least two bots carrying Tarans - could be plasma Griffins, Rhinos, Lancelots, a Fujin and Gary/Gala, or Rog. And you're comparing these four level 5 Tarans to a Level 8 Thunder - more than a two level gap, which goes against your advice. It's also common sense, though. You shouldn't have one bot in your hangar with level 8 weapons and two other bots with level 5 weapons. That's a very imbalanced hangar.
I agree with what you were trying to say with that part, just not so much with the example provided. I think a better reason to upgrade your lower level weapons is to keep your hangar in overall balance.
A better example/question to cover with the numbers is different weapons of the same level. Such as - on my RDB Griff, am I better off upgrading my Pins from 8 to 9 first or my Tulumbas?
Don't mean to tear your advice apart, just giving some food for thought. Awesome post, and great advice throughout, and amazing job putting all the numbers together and explaining them!
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Post by Poopface on Jul 2, 2017 12:20:44 GMT -5
Can't do anything about it (at a reunion until Thursday), but I look forward to reading. Based on what I've seen in the OP, I agree with the premise of upgrading secondary stuff while saving for a higher level upgrade. |
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Post by Russel on Jul 2, 2017 12:26:48 GMT -5
Can't do anything about it (at a reunion until Thursday), but I look forward to reading. Based on what I've seen in the OP, I agree with the premise of upgrading secondary stuff while saving for a higher level upgrade. Oh, happy Reunion then! (Not sure if it the right way to wish :/) And I will get a WildWest bots story for your Independence Day, too ;) |
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Post by Russel on Jul 2, 2017 12:37:41 GMT -5
Excellent and in-depth post. Although, I do question one comparison entirely. Upgrading one Thunder from 8 to 9 versus upgrading four Tarans from 5 to 6. There are a couple of things with that - first and foremost, no bot can hold four Tarans. Any bot with a heavy hardpoint can hold a Thunder. So you're comparing apples or oranges persay. So, this means you have to have at least two bots carrying Tarans - could be plasma Griffins, Rhinos, Lancelots, a Fujin and Gary/Gala, or Rog. And you're comparing these four level 5 Tarans to a Level 8 Thunder - more than a two level gap, which goes against your advice. It's also common sense, though. You shouldn't have one bot in your hangar with level 8 weapons and two other bots with level 5 weapons. That's a very imbalanced hangar. I agree with what you were trying to say with that part, just not so much with the example provided. I think a better reason to upgrade your lower level weapons is to keep your hangar in overall balance. A better example/question to cover with the numbers is different weapons of the same level. Such as - on my RDB Griff, am I better off upgrading my Pins from 8 to 9 first or my Tulumbas? Don't mean to tear your advice apart, just giving some food for thought. Awesome post, and great advice throughout, and amazing job putting all the numbers together and explaining them! Well, you never know, right? I mean - exactly the situation you question were taken from my experience. Everything is possible if you are not locked at the best efficiency ;) Right after the latest event I got Tarancilot and Taran Rog, all level 4. And I re-equipped Thunders on my Carnage, one lvl8 and another lvl9. I couldn't care less about my temporary hangar efficiency, so I was sporting lvl5 Rog with 2xlvl4 Tarans, and 3/4 Tarancilot. So I got curious what should I upgrade first, and got myself an excel spreadsheet. Now I'm just putting it everything together for public use. And thank you for the comment! It is very helpful to hear comment from the champion! |
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Post by mijapi300 on Jul 2, 2017 13:06:51 GMT -5
Russel I'm a LQ Champion, so it doesn't count! 
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jul 2, 2017 13:30:19 GMT -5
GREAT breakdown bro, you are a saint!
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Post by seanh on Jul 2, 2017 13:54:17 GMT -5
This is really good, it should be stickier or Wikied or something?
Can I ask a question on one element?
It's to do with putting weapons before bots in the upgrade que. someone on here, at some point, made the point that the upgrade of a bot in effect prolongs the damage capacity of its full load out. Like for like upgrade costs time etc for a bot appears to be about the same as a single medium hard point weapon. So let's say for example we have a griffin, whatever load out you feel like, 9/9. If I bring the bot to 10 the full load out is in the game for 6% longer. The same resources on the weapons would probably only get you one medium hard point to lvl 10. (Not even if you look at the Orkans). I know the are a whole pile of other dynamics at work, but it seemed to make some degree of sense when I read it?
I don't have an opinion on it really, just have almost everything to 9/9 and want to get the que opitimised before I start into the move to 10.
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Post by Russel on Jul 2, 2017 14:50:34 GMT -5
GREAT breakdown bro, you are a saint! Well, I remember I promised you an upgrade stuff - here it is ;) |
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Post by Russel on Jul 2, 2017 14:52:10 GMT -5
Russel I'm a LQ Champion, so it doesn't count! :P Once a champ - always a champ ;) Honestly I would like to hear how gameplay in LQ differs from the regular stuff. I got some assumptions that it's really a lot easier, because if match is tough - everybody is leaving, and it become easier. Though, only my speculations. |
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Post by Russel on Jul 2, 2017 15:56:59 GMT -5
This is really good, it should be stickier or Wikied or something? Can I ask a question on one element? It's to do with putting weapons before bots in the upgrade que. someone on here, at some point, made the point that the upgrade of a bot in effect prolongs the damage capacity of its full load out. I am going to finish laying out my notes in readable and comprehensible format, and re-format them as kind of Cliff's notes; Then it would be worthy to put to the Wiki (which I, by lucky coincidence, is capable of doing :-D ) On your question.. As usual, easy answer and long answer. Easy answer: no, it's not. Weapons first. Long answer: Actually, it is, but the effect is SO SMALL, I can compare it to wearing a baseball cap to make you less vulnerable to a headshot. For simplicity sake let's get two Cossacks with Punishers. SAME LEVEL UPGRADE: Starting out with 9\9 Cossack, one got Punisher upgrade, another Cossack HP upgrade. So we got Cossack9+Punisher8, who is firing at Cossack8+Punisher9 Level 9 Cossack, 69,000 is being pounded by enemy's lvl9 Punisher Mk2, getting 6,233 DPS. And he lives for 69,000/6,233 = 11.07 seconds while Level 8 Cossack, 65,000 is being pounded by enemy's lvl8 Punisher Mk2, getting 5,622 DPS. And he lives for 65,000/5,622 = 11.56 seconds This example is not taking into account many details like: bullet spread, upgrade time, upgrade price, different weapons that got different clip size, bots with several weapons mounted, etc. However you can clearly see the tendency here. With all else being equal, weapon is upgraded at a faster rate. Hell, we can calculate some more! Weapon _TYPICAL_ upgrade rate is +10%, bot _TYPICAL_ upgrade rate is +6% But you must remember that is COMPOUND INTEREST rate, so you are NOT getting 106% at first lever, 112% at second and so on. What you are getting is this:  So to approximate it CRUDELY: Weapon at lvl3 equals to a bot lvl4; but Weapon at lvl7 equals to a bot lvl11 Again, this is VERY VERY simplified explanation, but you should be able to get the idea behind this. |
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Post by seanh on Jul 2, 2017 16:19:33 GMT -5
Cool, thanks. There was no need to go to the trouble of working out, I would have trusted your quick answer.
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Post by Russel on Jul 2, 2017 16:23:15 GMT -5
Cool, thanks. There was no need to go to the trouble of working out, I would have trusted your quick answer. Well, you can rely only on trust for so much; it should be earned now and then. And with matters that I'm fancy with - I like to lay out everything that I can. |
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Post by mijapi300 on Jul 2, 2017 17:01:24 GMT -5
Russel I'm a LQ Champion, so it doesn't count! Once a champ - always a champ  Honestly I would like to hear how gameplay in LQ differs from the regular stuff. I got some assumptions that it's really a lot easier, because if match is tough - everybody is leaving, and it become easier. Though, only my speculations. It's less consistent is all. Everything is random (which side you're on, how many leavers are on your side). The only constant is there is at least one Champion on each side. So there are a lot of interesting 1v1 matches - not actually 1v1, but the two champions usually go for each other and leave the rest alone unless they get attacked. There are minor exceptions, when cowardly idiots use their 12/12 hangars to run over newbies. So.. for me personally, LQ is pretty challenging. Especially since I artificially hit Champion, because now I'm the Champion on my side. So it's my 8/9 hangar against a 12/12 hangar. Some games there's an extra 12/12 hangar on one side or another, but usually not unless you run into a clubber squad. It also fosters a game play style of not being entirely aware, because many of the bots on the field don't matter as much as they would if you were playing entirely against your own league. |
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Post by Poopface on Jul 2, 2017 18:50:46 GMT -5
Can't do anything about it (at a reunion until Thursday), but I look forward to reading. Based on what I've seen in the OP, I agree with the premise of upgrading secondary stuff while saving for a higher level upgrade. Oh, happy Reunion then! (Not sure if it the right way to wish :/) And I will get a WildWest bots story for your Independence Day, too Thanks! It's a yearly family reunion - the family started it a few years before I was born. |
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Post by 0ppressor on Jul 2, 2017 20:57:02 GMT -5
I have but one gripe.
The "Get your bots to either 4, 6 or 10 level (depending on your League\Silver amount)" bit.
I would honestly suggest 5, 7 and 9 for the bot levels. 5 is bronze league, 7 is silver league and 9 is gold league on up easily.
ETA: Thinking more about it, I forgot you're on iOS, which is different from Android (and now Amazon), so I can see the disparity, and it actually might be a good idea to mention this.
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Post by Russel on Jul 3, 2017 2:13:12 GMT -5
I have but one gripe. The "Get your bots to either 4, 6 or 10 level (depending on your League\Silver amount)" bit. I would honestly suggest 5, 7 and 9 for the bot levels. 5 is bronze league, 7 is silver league and 9 is gold league on up easily. ETA: Thinking more about it, I forgot you're on iOS, which is different from Android (and now Amazon), so I can see the disparity, and it actually might be a good idea to mention this. Sorry, I didn't get the relation between bot level and league standing; my recommendation is based purely on silver or time spent for the gains achieved. In other words - level11 is very very expensive for the bot, and I would not recommend upgrading any bot to level 11 until you take everything else to lvl10. And if I get your idea right - you are talking about level-based tiers? Are you sure equipment level is taken into consideration? I think it might very well not be. |
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Post by 0ppressor on Jul 3, 2017 2:45:32 GMT -5
I have but one gripe. The "Get your bots to either 4, 6 or 10 level (depending on your League\Silver amount)" bit. I would honestly suggest 5, 7 and 9 for the bot levels. 5 is bronze league, 7 is silver league and 9 is gold league on up easily. ETA: Thinking more about it, I forgot you're on iOS, which is different from Android (and now Amazon), so I can see the disparity, and it actually might be a good idea to mention this. Sorry, I didn't get the relation between bot level and league standing; my recommendation is based purely on silver or time spent for the gains achieved. In other words - level11 is very very expensive for the bot, and I would not recommend upgrading any bot to level 11 until you take everything else to lvl10. And if I get your idea right - you are talking about level-based tiers? Are you sure equipment level is taken into consideration? I think it might very well not be. Wasn't specifically thinking level based tiers, just going off of memory and pics of other pilots hangars in respective tiers that for Android, bot level 5 will carry you through Bronze, 7 through Silver and 9 through Gold (and Diamond) as well as level 9 being the level bots reach their max speed. Traditionaly, bot level 9 is when the upgrade focus shifts from weapons and bots to weapons solely as the only benefit for bots from that point forth is minimal additional HP. There are of course exceptions to this (bots with shields of either kind getting both a base HP bonus as well as shield HP bonus), and while those are true, they should be used more as a precedent for which bots to begin leveling to 12 than as a reason to ignore leveling weapons when bots are level 9. Then, when weapons are levelled again to either 12 or nearly, bots that will continue to be used are once again leveled until 12 or nearly. Personally, I feel 9 across the board (bots and weapons) is a fantastic plateu to reach. |
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Post by Russel on Jul 3, 2017 3:11:44 GMT -5
Sorry, I didn't get the relation between bot level and league standing; my recommendation is based purely on silver or time spent for the gains achieved. In other words - level11 is very very expensive for the bot, and I would not recommend upgrading any bot to level 11 until you take everything else to lvl10. And if I get your idea right - you are talking about level-based tiers? Are you sure equipment level is taken into consideration? I think it might very well not be. Wasn't specifically thinking level based tiers, just going off of memory and pics of other pilots hangars in respective tiers that for Android, bot level 5 will carry you through Bronze, 7 through Silver and 9 through Gold (and Diamond) as well as level 9 being the level bots reach their max speed. Traditionaly, bot level 9 is when the upgrade focus shifts from weapons and bots to weapons solely as the only benefit for bots from that point forth is minimal additional HP. There are of course exceptions to this (bots with shields of either kind getting both a base HP bonus as well as shield HP bonus), and while those are true, they should be used more as a precedent for which bots to begin leveling to 12 than as a reason to ignore leveling weapons when bots are level 9. Then, when weapons are levelled again to either 12 or nearly, bots that will continue to be used are once again leveled until 12 or nearly. Personally, I feel 9 across the board (bots and weapons) is a fantastic plateu to reach. Yep, I aim to get my stuff to 9/9 before I move further, but for me it's due to additional reasoning :-D 1) I like my bots fast, but don't like to upgrade them at all. So 9 is the minimum level for me. 2) I read at the TestServer notes that average level in the War Robots game is 8 for the most players. I want to be above average, so it's the extra level for me :-D Other than that, I would be happy with bots at 7 and weapons at 10 =) |
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Post by acdcfan on Jul 3, 2017 5:29:46 GMT -5
I would honestly suggest 5, 7 and 9 for the bot levels. 5 is bronze league, 7 is silver league and 9 is gold league on up easily. With the current fading & system abuse I don't think that applies any more but it could be used a guide only. |
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Post by Russel on Jul 3, 2017 8:52:01 GMT -5
Once a champ - always a champ ;) Honestly I would like to hear how gameplay in LQ differs from the regular stuff. I got some assumptions that it's really a lot easier, because if match is tough - everybody is leaving, and it become easier. Though, only my speculations. It's less consistent is all. Everything is random (which side you're on, how many leavers are on your side). The only constant is there is at least one Champion on each side. So there are a lot of interesting 1v1 matches - not actually 1v1, but the two champions usually go for each other and leave the rest alone unless they get attacked. There are minor exceptions, when cowardly idiots use their 12/12 hangars to run over newbies. So.. for me personally, LQ is pretty challenging. Especially since I artificially hit Champion, because now I'm the Champion on my side. So it's my 8/9 hangar against a 12/12 hangar. Some games there's an extra 12/12 hangar on one side or another, but usually not unless you run into a clubber squad. It also fosters a game play style of not being entirely aware, because many of the bots on the field don't matter as much as they would if you were playing entirely against your own league. Nice, thanks! You might want to write a post on LQ experience. IIRC there is not a single factual post on that. |
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Post by locutis on Jul 3, 2017 9:24:57 GMT -5
The only thought that I have is that bot speed should be considered. If you're running any beacon cappers in your hanger you should prioritize the bot level over weapon level on those bots.
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Post by Russel on Jul 3, 2017 9:44:35 GMT -5
The only thought that I have is that bot speed should be considered. If you're running any beacon cappers in your hanger you should prioritize the bot level over weapon level on those bots. You got the point here, but it is arguable pretty much. As an example - during 3rd Anniversary event I was running the following beacon capping hangar:  This was kind of a mess, but it did the job well (I got Anarchy Rog in the end). The logic behind getting Taran to lvl4 on the Rog while leaving Rog at lvl3 was the following: 1) I had very tiny hangar back then, so Rog at lvl3 was faster than Leo or Griffin (basically what you see on screen +2xGriffin +2xLeo was my entire hangar) 2) Taking Rog to lvl4 is 14 hours, while taking Taran to lvl4 is 2h 23m; and there were MANY enemy cappers in a Stalker\Gepard\Cossack 3) I could NOT take Rog all the way up so that it would be faster then enemy runners; so I needed to make it deal more damage (so I could scare enemy from the beacon) 4) I wanted to upgrade my Anarchy Rog, and not usual green Rog that I got from the chest. 5) While other players Stalker\Gepard were faster, my Rog could jump. This compensate speed very much on the Moon\Powerplant, and other maps to some extent. Hence the "Upgrade Taran before bot" for the beacon capper. While IT IS a kludge solution, it did the job surprisingly well. Actually I was able to cap beacons while driving to work =) But that's not the point entirely. What I am trying to achieve in my Tips\Advices posts is the message: "This is OBJECTIVE truth, it works for EVERYONE", backed up with numbers. I am not making posts just to speculate what I think is better, or what works for me; so by upgrading your weapon first you DEFINITELY can do more on the battlefield. So, what's wrong with advice "speed up your beacon cappers first", you might ask? Well, I personally agree with your point, but some people don't run dedicated beacon cappers, so this advice would be irrelevant. Other people run Rhino as a power-runner\beacon capper; and upgrading weapons for the Rhino would make more impact. The term "Beacon runner" is not defined, for me (and, quite possibly, you) it is the bot who can get to the beacon faster than anybody. For other people beacon runner must be able to cap and HOLD the beacon (think Gareth, Galahad, Rogatka, Rhino); this way once you get to the beacon - enemy will be waiting for you, and you need to have your firepower ready. So that extra +2 km/h won't matter as much as +1000 DPS from your trustworthy weapon. In short -it is a good advice, but not everybody could relate\understand it well. |
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Post by ΒΣRΖΣRKΛ²³ on Jul 3, 2017 10:43:34 GMT -5
The only thought that I have is that bot speed should be considered. If you're running any beacon cappers in your hanger you should prioritize the bot level over weapon level on those bots. You got the point here, but it is arguable pretty much. As an example - during 3rd Anniversary event I was running the following beacon capping hangar: This was kind of a mess, but it did the job well (I got Anarchy Rog in the end). The logic behind getting Taran to lvl4 on the Rog while leaving Rog at lvl3 was the following: 1) I had very tiny hangar back then, so Rog at lvl3 was faster than Leo or Griffin (basically what you see on screen +2xGriffin +2xLeo was my entire hangar) 2) Taking Rog to lvl4 is 14 hours, while taking Taran to lvl4 is 2h 23m; and there were MANY enemy cappers in a Stalker\Gepard\Cossack 3) I could NOT take Rog all the way up so that it would be faster then enemy runners; so I needed to make it deal more damage (so I could scare enemy from the beacon) 4) I wanted to upgrade my Anarchy Rog, and not usual green Rog that I got from the chest. 5) While other players Stalker\Gepard were faster, my Rog could jump. This compensate speed very much on the Moon\Powerplant, and other maps to some extent. Hence the "Upgrade Taran before bot" for the beacon capper. While IT IS a kludge solution, it did the job surprisingly well. Actually I was able to cap beacons while driving to work =) But that's not the point entirely. What I am trying to achieve in my Tips\Advices posts is the message: "This is OBJECTIVE truth, it works for EVERYONE", backed up with numbers. I am not making posts just to speculate what I think is better, or what works for me; so by upgrading your weapon first you DEFINITELY can do more on the battlefield. So, what's wrong with advice "speed up your beacon cappers first", you might ask? Well, I personally agree with your point, but some people don't run dedicated beacon cappers, so this advice would be irrelevant. Other people run Rhino as a power-runner\beacon capper; and upgrading weapons for the Rhino would make more impact. The term "Beacon runner" is not defined, for me (and, quite possibly, you) it is the bot who can get to the beacon faster than anybody. For other people beacon runner must be able to cap and HOLD the beacon (think Gareth, Galahad, Rogatka, Rhino); this way once you get to the beacon - enemy will be waiting for you, and you need to have your firepower ready. So that extra +2 km/h won't matter as much as +1000 DPS from your trustworthy weapon. In short -it is a good advice, but not everybody could relate\understand it well. Sorry for the off topic here, but man, will you ever change your name? I mean you got the coin so..?? |
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Post by Russel on Jul 3, 2017 11:41:58 GMT -5
You got the point here, but it is arguable pretty much. As an example - during 3rd Anniversary event I was running the following beacon capping hangar: This was kind of a mess, but it did the job well (I got Anarchy Rog in the end). The logic behind getting Taran to lvl4 on the Rog while leaving Rog at lvl3 was the following: 1) I had very tiny hangar back then, so Rog at lvl3 was faster than Leo or Griffin (basically what you see on screen +2xGriffin +2xLeo was my entire hangar) 2) Taking Rog to lvl4 is 14 hours, while taking Taran to lvl4 is 2h 23m; and there were MANY enemy cappers in a Stalker\Gepard\Cossack 3) I could NOT take Rog all the way up so that it would be faster then enemy runners; so I needed to make it deal more damage (so I could scare enemy from the beacon) 4) I wanted to upgrade my Anarchy Rog, and not usual green Rog that I got from the chest. 5) While other players Stalker\Gepard were faster, my Rog could jump. This compensate speed very much on the Moon\Powerplant, and other maps to some extent. Hence the "Upgrade Taran before bot" for the beacon capper. While IT IS a kludge solution, it did the job surprisingly well. Actually I was able to cap beacons while driving to work =) But that's not the point entirely. What I am trying to achieve in my Tips\Advices posts is the message: "This is OBJECTIVE truth, it works for EVERYONE", backed up with numbers. I am not making posts just to speculate what I think is better, or what works for me; so by upgrading your weapon first you DEFINITELY can do more on the battlefield. So, what's wrong with advice "speed up your beacon cappers first", you might ask? Well, I personally agree with your point, but some people don't run dedicated beacon cappers, so this advice would be irrelevant. Other people run Rhino as a power-runner\beacon capper; and upgrading weapons for the Rhino would make more impact. The term "Beacon runner" is not defined, for me (and, quite possibly, you) it is the bot who can get to the beacon faster than anybody. For other people beacon runner must be able to cap and HOLD the beacon (think Gareth, Galahad, Rogatka, Rhino); this way once you get to the beacon - enemy will be waiting for you, and you need to have your firepower ready. So that extra +2 km/h won't matter as much as +1000 DPS from your trustworthy weapon. In short -it is a good advice, but not everybody could relate\understand it well. Sorry for the off topic here, but man, will you ever change your name? I mean you got the coin so..?? As I once said, my name has a story. It got meaning. It helps me to live a rightful life every day. I am becoming a better player due to this name. It actually got a translation; in ancient Mayan language it means: "The one who should remember not to follow in-game advice of the developers". In a sense I feel connected to that poor African boy: |
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Post by Russel on Jul 3, 2017 12:45:02 GMT -5
Oh 「dookie」, the Daily show video is about politics. I hope nobody would see that or I could get banned :(
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Post by Tatamat on Jul 10, 2017 7:30:16 GMT -5
Russel, good job! I was more than a week offline so the initial discussion is over, however it's never late to add my piece: I agree with almost all ideas save one. Upgrade weapons before bots (keep discrepancy no more than 2 levels though)
This is the rule most of folks swear on and one almost feels heretic to take such basic truth for discussion. However, it won't be the first time  The point is, while I always nodded while reading the rule, I've ofted done THE OPPOSITE in my hangar. To be specific, after taking all the stuff to lvl 6, many bots go BEFORE weps to lvl 8-9. Why? Speed and durability are crucial for certain bots. Without this, they don't serve their purpose even though well armed. And it takes long time until you get to upgrading the bot while sticking to the rule. One by one (what I have experience with): Carnage:
- Bot lvl 6=>9: app. 5 d 17 hrs, 3.7 mil. Ag - Both weps lvl 6=>9: app. 10-12 d, app. 21-23 mil. Ag - This was a natural choice - bot 9 first, weps follow. Maybe I'm such a bad Carny pilot, but driving a 6/8 one would be probably a hell for me as I always needed the speed and durability to cross the distance to target. Could imagine the Zeus one, but definitely not the Thunder. Natasha:
- Bot 6-9: 3 d 3 hrs, 4.5 mil. Ag - Weps 6-9: app. 15-17 d, 32-36 mil. Ag - The bot is damned slow, lvl 6 doesn't get anywhere. Also, being a slow target means taking a lot of damage. While it is playable at lvl 6, the percentage of time and Ag needed to upgrade the bot compared to it's weaponry is so low that I'd recommend to get it at least to 8 before taking weps behind 6. Rhino & Griffin:- Bot 6-9: 5d 2 hrs, 8 mil. Ag - Weps 6-9: app. 13 d, app. 26 mil. Ag - Rhino is generally recommended to be used @ lvl 7+. For Griffin, lvl 6 does a good job with rocket setups (DB and RDB in my hangar followed the rule) but it's discutable for PDB. Galahad & Gareth:- intentionally left last as their importance has greatly decreased, however both bots needed their max speed to avoid rockets (soon to be over) and shield strength to resist the rest. Being not so strongly armed, the ratio bot/weps won't be that striking, however getting bots to lvl 8-9 first was a no-brainer for me. Don't have any experience with Fujin, Raijin and Lancelot that I suspect to be better with bot first approach. To make it clear, this note is only about lvl 6-9 area. Below lvl 6, everything goes fast & cheap so it doesn't matter that much. Behind lvl 9, I agree with the rule - weps first.
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Post by Dejnov on Jul 10, 2017 7:50:43 GMT -5
The only thought that I have is that bot speed should be considered. If you're running any beacon cappers in your hanger you should prioritize the bot level over weapon level on those bots. But that's not the point entirely. What I am trying to achieve in my Tips\Advices posts is the message: "This is OBJECTIVE truth, it works for EVERYONE", backed up with numbers. I am not making posts just to speculate what I think is better, or what works for me; so by upgrading your weapon first you DEFINITELY can do more on the battlefield. So, what's wrong with advice "speed up your beacon cappers first", you might ask? Well, I personally agree with your point, but some people don't run dedicated beacon cappers, so this advice would be irrelevant. Other people run Rhino as a power-runner\beacon capper; and upgrading weapons for the Rhino would make more impact. The term "Beacon runner" is not defined, for me (and, quite possibly, you) it is the bot who can get to the beacon faster than anybody. For other people beacon runner must be able to cap and HOLD the beacon (think Gareth, Galahad, Rogatka, Rhino); this way once you get to the beacon - enemy will be waiting for you, and you need to have your firepower ready. So that extra +2 km/h won't matter as much as +1000 DPS from your trustworthy weapon. In short -it is a good advice, but not everybody could relate\understand it well. Hey Russel, First of, great post and one I've read a couple times to help it 'sink in'. That means there's quality here. Secondly, thanks for keeping it objective and not subjective. I know that everyone's situation is different, and won't follow the advice completely. But giving an objective pros and cons allows the user to make that choice themselves, instead of trying to convince them that their choice is wrong or right. Kudos for keeping it real!! Dejnov. |
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Post by Russel on Jul 10, 2017 9:18:06 GMT -5
But that's not the point entirely. What I am trying to achieve in my Tips\Advices posts is the message: "This is OBJECTIVE truth, it works for EVERYONE", backed up with numbers. I am not making posts just to speculate what I think is better, or what works for me; so by upgrading your weapon first you DEFINITELY can do more on the battlefield. So, what's wrong with advice "speed up your beacon cappers first", you might ask? Well, I personally agree with your point, but some people don't run dedicated beacon cappers, so this advice would be irrelevant. Other people run Rhino as a power-runner\beacon capper; and upgrading weapons for the Rhino would make more impact. The term "Beacon runner" is not defined, for me (and, quite possibly, you) it is the bot who can get to the beacon faster than anybody. For other people beacon runner must be able to cap and HOLD the beacon (think Gareth, Galahad, Rogatka, Rhino); this way once you get to the beacon - enemy will be waiting for you, and you need to have your firepower ready. So that extra +2 km/h won't matter as much as +1000 DPS from your trustworthy weapon. In short -it is a good advice, but not everybody could relate\understand it well. Hey Russel, First of, great post and one I've read a couple times to help it 'sink in'. That means there's quality here. Secondly, thanks for keeping it objective and not subjective. I know that everyone's situation is different, and won't follow the advice completely. But giving an objective pros and cons allows the user to make that choice themselves, instead of trying to convince them that their choice is wrong or right. Kudos for keeping it real!! Dejnov. I try my best NOT to suggest everybody to play the way I play, or I would be telling everybody to ditch heavy OR underarmed OR slow (is that a word?) bots like Galahad, Ancilot, Raijin, Leo, Natasha and run only fast, heavily armed ones, like Carnage, Cossack, Rogatka, Jesse and Doc :-D But to each their own, I guess, so once again I try to stick in my writing not with "works for me" or "just feels right", but with some numbers-based stuff. P.s. not sure it was a reference, but anyways:  |
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