tttt
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Post by tttt on Oct 20, 2016 10:55:54 GMT -5
Hogenization is the death knell for games like this. Hopefully Pix figures that out. Exactly. It's like checkers vs. chess. Same basic board but fundamentally different strategies/game play. I like the challenge of learning different pieces and figuring out how to make them work, and with all the different bot styles and weapons available, I think that's the intent of the game. Others don't, and that's fine. But if I find myself in a game of checkers, I'm leaving because that's not the game I came to play.
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
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Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Oct 20, 2016 13:54:54 GMT -5
I think one easy and automatic way to deal with this is to have the prices of weapons and bots reflect the amount of their demand. Popular ones should become more expensive and less popular ones less expensive. So the Gepard would become expensive to the point of not being the most efficient purchase, something else takes its place and then also gets more expensive. Eventually, every item's value should equalize, which should level things automatically and also in the long-term despite any future changes. One downside is that this would reward the early-adopters, but I think that can be addressed by having the prices of repairs and future upgrades also be adjusted. Besides, a small number of early-adopter over-powered bots/weapons sure beats a whole fleet of them everywhere. I disagree, all that would do is make it harder for noobs to acheive a better setup, it would make the natasha/bad teammate problem even worse. A better and simpler solution would be to just keep level 30 players out of the lower tiers in general. Top tier already has enough vareiety. Lancelots, rhinos, griffins, galahads, furies, carnages, etc. As others have pointed out, level correlates more with how long a player has played the game, which only weakly correlates with their skill level. Same goes for weapons. I was pretty useless with Pins for a good long while after I first bought them. The primary factor in MM should be the stats actually achieved by the player in game, where the more difficult games are weighted as such. No matter how the prices fluctuate (as many will go down as go up), there will always be some combination that remains the best value to new players. That the optimal combination changes over time means that the best setup will be different for every player, which means the setups we see out there will have more variety and less homogenous. To be sure, I'm also being a little cynical here. Pixonic has a financial interest in letting newer players see the latest equipment and to think they can just spend money to win more. So, I don't think they'll ever really fix the MM. Allowing prices to change means equipment that Pixonic developers and artists spent time to create will actually pay off and be used in the game, making that investment worth more to Pixonic. As such, I think it's more likely Pixonic would do it. But lest I be misunderstood, I am in favor of them fixing MM to prevent seal-clubbing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 14:29:02 GMT -5
In high bronze (assumed tier. L4/6 meds) I rarely encounter Clubbers - instead I start feeling bad about my stats (only have one MagGep, and only pull it if I have to turn the tide ). It will take two more weeks to have a halfway decent silver hangar and I will be L30 before that...(meanwhile I try to pass on some wisdom I got from here at least). But its really horrible for beginners... showed the game to a friend and was pretty much "「whiskey tango foxtrot」?" myself. Nothing that would discourage a 30+ year old gaming veteran, but I dont think thats the average "mobile gamer". The fact that the game doesnt have a decent tutorial/ handbook (plus the fact that mobile gamers seem to be immune to "google") is also devastating (in high bronze its still 66% crap setups minimum). Advertising a quite expensive "auto win" package by shoving it in your face is also no good marketing. A large, happy Playerbase that sometimes passes 10 bucks to the devs will -in the end- generate more cashflow than the occasional kid who charges daddys mastercard to be op... And in the end: Why does someone "club"? To farm gold? Assume you win every match in 3 minutes and get 10 gold... thats 200 per hour max. WOHOOO!. 1200 Gold are 10 bucks... even for a 9 year old its more effective to sell lemonade/ walk the neighbours dog or whatever... And if one does it to boost his ego... via a mobile game... I dont even want to talk about it... just get a shrink maybe (or try sports, read a good book, take a walk in the park...).
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Post by Orukal on Oct 20, 2016 22:05:12 GMT -5
In my opinion, any experienced player playing at the lower tiers is sealclubbing. There is virtually no way for a noob to beat a moderately experienced player in a straight on fight. A thunder schutze will at least not usually drive off noobs though Oh, I agree there. I could see a noob handle getting best by a Thunder/Schutze, but getting obliterated over and over by Mag/Geps is a different story.
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Idras
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Post by Idras on Oct 25, 2016 1:34:29 GMT -5
Haven't they made it so you can't enter bronze or low silver with workshop or gold weapons and bots?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 4:12:30 GMT -5
Haven't they made it so you can't enter bronze or low silver with workshop or gold weapons and bots? I think they only give you a bump up (I have several Tarans, Mags and Orkans In my high bronze/ low silver hangar plus one Gep. Problem with the Gep is that you can just leave him at level1 (max speed anyways), then add some pretty high weapons... and the MM punishment for a level 1 light bot for Gold seems non-existant.
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Post by [ita]SirKenzoY2J on Oct 25, 2016 8:29:38 GMT -5
learn to lose. in this game the most effective weapon is the knowledge of this game: first time i was against a seal clubber gepard i'm before lv20, i don't know how fight against any bot building, so i 've lost so many times... but after read suggestions on forum, after seeing tons of YT videos, now i am able to setting up any bot build, with a focus point, that makes efficently a "Job", and this game became so easily to concern and to play
Patton with pins destroys any gepard with magnum, but also a good played cossack with taran, or a simply ThunderShutze can shout down my 3 Mag Gep. it's not game balance, it's only a learning concept. Play over and over and learn to lose
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Post by [ita]SirKenzoY2J on Oct 25, 2016 8:36:10 GMT -5
gepard costs only 1200 AU (120 times you winning on first place) but i can kill any inexperienced gepard with any weapon level, but i can't do this on a focus learned player, that corner shots me, when defending a beacon, that's not be a seal clubber, that's means i have to play better, maybe changing my attention on a different playstyle: my patton with 4x CRV PINs make Magnum Gepard cryes, but also a Vityaz Zeus and pins, but also a Natasha 2x Thunder and 2x Pinatas.... there are so many way to stop an hangar full of gepards... i have it (use only gepards)
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Post by moody on Oct 25, 2016 8:59:39 GMT -5
I have often been outfought by gep mags at the level I play - 3/7 mediums average about 300,000 damage per game. One or two is a challenge and not grossly unbalanced.
I was just slaughtered by a full clan of 4/11 ish mag geps. They destroyed all my side and got all beacons and the counter hadn't reached 8.30. I am pleased with my 2 kills and 90000 damage as each bot lasted an average 20 seconds. (I was top score on my side - by a lot).
Seriously this is seal clubbing. There is nothing fair here. It's people exploiting the game to be bullies.
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Reiko Asahina
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Post by Reiko Asahina on Oct 25, 2016 10:31:53 GMT -5
New Player here, only played for a couple days, level 17 atm.
I think I'm in Low Bronze? Not too sure, running meds and lights at level 2-3 bots and level 5ish weapons.
Been running into gepards a LOT as well, like at least one every two matches or so.
Though I guess, in a way I should thank them since it was in trying to make SOMETHING that can fight them that I found the joys of the Thunderschutze XD
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 11:10:17 GMT -5
New Player here, only played for a couple days, level 17 atm. I think I'm in Low Bronze? Not too sure, running meds and lights at level 2-3 bots and level 5ish weapons. Been running into gepards a LOT as well, like at least one every two matches or so. Though I guess, in a way I should thank them since it was in trying to make SOMETHING that can fight them that I found the joys of the Thunderschutze XD low-mid bronze I would guess (all these tier names are assumptions anyways^^). If you enter high bronze (level 4 meds, l6 weapons) you'll be over the worst of it (plus a thunder Orkan Boa at that level mops the floor with careless MagGeps )
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Neg0Pander
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Post by Neg0Pander on Oct 25, 2016 11:33:05 GMT -5
New Player here, only played for a couple days, level 17 atm. I think I'm in Low Bronze? Not too sure, running meds and lights at level 2-3 bots and level 5ish weapons. Been running into gepards a LOT as well, like at least one every two matches or so. Though I guess, in a way I should thank them since it was in trying to make SOMETHING that can fight them that I found the joys of the Thunderschutze XD low-mid bronze I would guess (all these tier names are assumptions anyways^^). If you enter high bronze (level 4 meds, l6 weapons) you'll be over the worst of it (plus a thunder Orkan Boa at that level mops the floor with careless MagGeps ) Ehhh. I don't think so. I'm mostly mid-silver and at certain times of the day it's like GepWars Episode VI
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drunkrookie
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Post by drunkrookie on Oct 25, 2016 11:50:28 GMT -5
So today I had a daily mission kill 4 bots with a light mech. Fine loaded level 3/6 destrier, couple of 2/5 Cossacks and a 3/6 thunder shultz figured one or two games I would get it out of the way quick. Took me at least 5 matches. one guy or more in each match running a full hanger of mag/geps and aphid/geps. They were running around two shooting everyone with the aphids, curious if we going to see more of them. I sort of expected this but some of the poor obvious beginners must of been disheartening.
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Neg0Pander
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Post by Neg0Pander on Oct 25, 2016 12:14:25 GMT -5
They were running around two shooting everyone with the aphids, curious if we going to see more of them. I sort of expected this but some of the poor obvious beginners must of been disheartening. I'm trying to get a new acronym started "AAG's" (A-hole Aphid Gepards). Hopefully it will catch on like RDB or TOP. And, yes, since the Aphids got a buff a few days ago, they are becoming an increasing nuisance as they are waaaaay more lethal now.
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drunkrookie
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Post by drunkrookie on Oct 25, 2016 12:16:16 GMT -5
Lol I like that AAg
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tttt
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Post by tttt on Oct 25, 2016 12:18:02 GMT -5
I've only been playing a few months, but I've been gaming for decades. This isn't just a problem, it's an obvious problem.
I encountered mag geps with my 6/4 hanger (6/4 heavies, 7/7 medium, 8/8 light). I start out capping beacons and spreading some damage around red's side beacon in my Stalker/pinatas, get damage let myself get killed so I can spawn into my heavy Griffin when I notice I have two teammates left.
When I spawn there's two of them at the spawn site with an overpowered Vityaz (took a long time for two of us to kill it) with another running around.
Yes, I can kill a Gepard or two, but I'm not six players.
Obvious problem. Anyone who says different is just trying to rationalize taking advantage of the problem.
I had a Gepard. I sold it because I saw the abuse.
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Neg0Pander
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Post by Neg0Pander on Oct 25, 2016 12:26:04 GMT -5
I've only been playing a few months, but I've been gaming for decades. This isn't just a problem, it's an obvious problem. I encountered mag geps with my 6/4 hanger (6/4 heavies, 7/7 medium, 8/8 light). I start out capping beacons and spreading some damage around red's side beacon in my Stalker/pinatas, get damage let myself get killed so I can spawn into my heavy Griffin when I notice I have two teammates left. When I spawn there's two of them at the spawn site with an overpowered Vityaz (took a long time for two of us to kill it) with another running around. Yes, I can kill a Gepard or two, but I'm not six players. Obvious problem. Anyone who says different is just trying to rationalize taking advantage of the problem. I had a Gepard. I sold it because I saw the abuse. You're point is valid, but you're also aren't you doing it wrong? Your weapons are way too underpowered on those bots, particulary the heavies. You'll never take down a fast moving bot when you have to spend so much time shooting at them. Your lights & heavies are leveled way too far for those weapon. You can run 4/9 meds & 4/12 lights. That balances things a bit. The biggest problem with clubbers is that if noobs get too frustrated they will leave, rather than learn. The rest of us stick around because our hate makes us stronger, it gives us focus....
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Post by Orukal on Oct 25, 2016 13:06:16 GMT -5
learn to lose. in this game the most effective weapon is the knowledge of this game My issue falls around when newbies, on their first day, keep getting pummeled mercilessly by Gepard hangers. Yeah, they are going to learn to lose...and then learn how to uninstall the game in favor of a different game.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 25, 2016 13:35:53 GMT -5
learn to lose. in this game the most effective weapon is the knowledge of this game My issue falls around when newbies, on their first day, keep getting pummeled mercilessly by Gepard hangers. Yeah, they are going to learn to lose...and then learn how to uninstall the game in favor of a different game. Honestly, that is the biggest argument against TriMaggies in the lowest tiers... not that people lose, but the level of the people that are losing. Not actual XP level like, "20" or "15", since, as we all know, does nothing to reflect a player's ability level... but level as in... they just started playing, or maybe play super casually, and need a place that has little to no bleed over with people that can run 1/9 TriMaggy hangers. Once a good grip of the game leveling is had, then people figure out how to deal with them... whether that is leveling up past them asap or getting good with counters for them (although with randoms, by the time you kill one with your uber-awesome-TriMaggy-slapper T/T Boa, the rest of your team is dead). I still say no nerfing... and 'un'nerf the Rog back to where it was. Just keep from driving off new players. I don't know how to do that in one fell swoop... but for instance: 1.) doing something that takes into account your entire hanger instead of the strongest bot for MM 2.) adjust the weight that weapons have in MM 3.) Provide a better IN GAME guide for leveling... perhaps a tutorial that gives enough info to get people in the right direction. If the MM weights don't change, then warn against leveling bots while leaving weapons at the fly swatter level, which will enhance all tier gameplay up to and including gold... as I see many level 9 bots with 5 weapons in my battles. Rarely do I see anyone who has the keep-weapons-2-levels-ahead-of-bots mindset in my games since I have started using the hanger I am now. JMHO. Clubbers gonna club... ain't gonna change. Every game has weakpoints in the matchups that can be exploited... they all do. It's just that the TriMaggies turn that exploit into a detriment to the most vulnerable... guaranteeing that we lose more than we gain of the new blood this game needs to survive. And I do want it to survive.
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tttt
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Post by tttt on Oct 25, 2016 13:36:08 GMT -5
@ neg0pander Yes they're underpowered right now. I'm working toward a balanced 6/8 hanger, with heavies 6/8, mediums 8/9 and lights 12/12 - at least according to the matchmaking page. So I'm working toward the first step, a balance 6/4 heavies hanger, where my light needs to be 8/10. Then I'll go to a 6/5, 6/6 etc. For no good reason than it amuses me But regarding that battle, I didn't get deal clubbed - I had six kills, two beacons and high damage for the blue and still fighting. But everyone else was killed off
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tttt
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Post by tttt on Oct 25, 2016 13:41:09 GMT -5
Rather than clans or squads, I'd join a league where you could opt out of players using the mag/geps or adjusts for any other problems that arise. That way league players can police thmselves and pix doesn't have to deal with it
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Neg0Pander
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Post by Neg0Pander on Oct 25, 2016 13:50:22 GMT -5
My issue falls around when newbies, on their first day, keep getting pummeled mercilessly by Gepard hangers. Yeah, they are going to learn to lose...and then learn how to uninstall the game in favor of a different game. I still say no nerfing... and 'un'nerf the Rog back to where it was. Just keep from driving off new players. I don't know how to do that in one fell swoop... but for instance: 1.) doing something that takes into account your entire hanger instead of the strongest bot for MM 2.) adjust the weight that weapons have in MM 3.) Provide a better IN GAME guide for leveling... perhaps a tutorial that gives enough info to get people in the right direction. This may be the best approach. If the Gep is gonna be this good, give it the same or similar MM penalty as, say, the Gareth. Then factor in weapons levels, like you said. No way a lvl 12 weapon should be allowed in anything under mid silver, IMO. You may be right. I've been 「female dog」ing about the MagGep being OP, but maybe it just needs to be put in the right context. It would be cool if the game would give you an indicator of your overall bot strength, like on a scale of 100, and do the same for your hangar. Lots of games do that sort of thing. I'm sure that MM works based on that sort of principle anyways. Just make it a bit more transparent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 15:49:40 GMT -5
low-mid bronze I would guess (all these tier names are assumptions anyways^^). If you enter high bronze (level 4 meds, l6 weapons) you'll be over the worst of it (plus a thunder Orkan Boa at that level mops the floor with careless MagGeps ) Ehhh. I don't think so. I'm mostly mid-silver and at certain times of the day it's like GepWars Episode VI 「dookie」. Guess I'll keep my hangar at high bronze-low silver then, and upgrade in the background. Wasnt too bad last 2 days. But I really want some Aphids now
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 25, 2016 16:10:10 GMT -5
low-mid bronze I would guess (all these tier names are assumptions anyways^^). If you enter high bronze (level 4 meds, l6 weapons) you'll be over the worst of it (plus a thunder Orkan Boa at that level mops the floor with careless MagGeps ) Ehhh. I don't think so. I'm mostly mid-silver and at certain times of the day it's like GepWars Episode VI neg... do you know if that coincides with the "Power Hour" times when pilot of the day contests are happening? Would be my guess.
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Post by Orukal on Oct 25, 2016 17:23:59 GMT -5
I still say no nerfing... Yea, and I completely agree. Don't nerf. Buff or adjust others, but don't nerf what you sold. It's at that point that I have a slight issue, but not an unavoidable one. The Gepard is a gold purchased 'bot. It's special and it's abilities and statistics should reflect that. I just think it's become too special is the right/wrong circumstances. Leave them the way they are and adjust the game mechanics/options.
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Neg0Pander
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Post by Neg0Pander on Oct 25, 2016 19:47:23 GMT -5
Ehhh. I don't think so. I'm mostly mid-silver and at certain times of the day it's like GepWars Episode VI neg... do you know if that coincides with the "Power Hour" times when pilot of the day contests are happening? Would be my guess. That's possible. Just now I lost 3 straight to f***ing get clans. It might be power hour I'll check next time. Granted, I killed a lot, but the rest of my team just melted.
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Reiko Asahina
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Post by Reiko Asahina on Oct 25, 2016 20:48:40 GMT -5
So far I found the best approach to deal with A-hole-Geps are to, the instant I hear the noticeable sound of mags firing/suspect a gep on the other side, stick close to something BIG, wait for the gep to shoot it, then bumrush its face and unload a full clip of thunder on it.
That and atm I also run a mid-long range setup Vityaz as a 4th bot (1-3 being Thunderschutze XD Does that count as seal-clubbing? they're the most effective speedy close-in fighters I can make so far, level 17 atm) packing a Kang-Dae and 2 Molots and staying at 400-800m from the geps.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 21:18:13 GMT -5
Geps are not the only problem, neither are mags. Clans are a huge problem. Even the clans that say they dont club, will go out and club. Seen it!
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Neg0Pander
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Post by Neg0Pander on Oct 25, 2016 21:38:55 GMT -5
Geps are not the only problem, neither are mags. Clans are a huge problem. Even the clans that say they dont club, will go out and club. Seen it! As much as I hate Gep clubberz, today I experienced some thing new that made me a little less mad at Geps. There's a South American clan of 1/12 Taran Cossack clubbers. I didn't think it would be a big deal but those guys were brutal! I wasn't ready for that at all. It just goes to show the power of clans, and how diverse this game can be.
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Post by nodalwars on Oct 25, 2016 21:40:03 GMT -5
So instead of nerfing the stats leave the stats of the Geps the same but make them brittle. Have them lose weapons much easier and that might be the fix.
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