sdn
Recruit
Posts: 8
Karma: 4
League: Gold
Server Region: Asia
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Post by sdn on May 31, 2017 8:02:05 GMT -5
Let the screenshots speak for themselves. I was put in a match where the opponents were so owerpowered. My team members were just about equal in strength as i was. Check out one of the opponent players. Higher level, all heavybots, wsp and gold weapons. He was totally abusing my team until i took him down with my boa, going down myself in the process. What sort of evil matchmaking is this. Its like pix wanted me to lose for sure.
Can someone explain why this and why me?
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Post by Russel on May 31, 2017 8:15:55 GMT -5
Well, because he seems not very good at this game. You, with silver stuff, and missing 1 team member, managed to get a better score. That makes you a real 「deteriorated bum-bum」, with 71% of wins. And the guy with all his stuff is just at ~40% wins.
So next time you can either focus more on beacons, or get your team full, and you will wreak havoc on these players. Good job, keep it up!
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Post by Paps on May 31, 2017 8:21:34 GMT -5
Welcome to the suck, friend.
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Post by mechtout on May 31, 2017 8:37:01 GMT -5
OP, you outscored the guy lol just wait til you get a match up vs all Champions like this! (while being in expert) The beacon bar went down very quickly haha
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Post by Mechman-Mechout on May 31, 2017 8:44:04 GMT -5
Let the screenshots speak for themselves. I was put in a match where the opponents were so owerpowered. My team members were just about equal in strength as i was. Check out one of the opponent players. Higher level, all heavybots, wsp and gold weapons. He was totally abusing my team until i took him down with my boa, going down myself in the process. What sort of evil matchmaking is this. Its like pix wanted me to lose for sure.
Can someone explain why this and why me? The reason it seemed like Pixonic wanted you to lose is because Pixonic wanted you to lose. The matchmaking is currently programmed to match players against high or low level enemies, dependent on your win rate. They're trying to keep you around 50%, so you'll probably go through a lot more losses before your score is reduced and you can start winning again. And before you even ask; No, no there isn't anything you can do about it. Even if you aren't overwhelmed by the enemy, your team (also selected for win-culling) certainly will be. If you can't handle every game being rigged (and believe me, I can't blame you) I'd advise you abandon this game as soon as possible, because the matchmaking doesn't seem to be improving any day soon. If you're still into giant 'bot games, there's an upcoming project called Battle Titans, created by the old devs of War Robots. It's definitely worth a look.
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sdn
Recruit
Posts: 8
Karma: 4
League: Gold
Server Region: Asia
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Post by sdn on May 31, 2017 10:17:10 GMT -5
Let the screenshots speak for themselves. I was put in a match where the opponents were so owerpowered. My team members were just about equal in strength as i was. Check out one of the opponent players. Higher level, all heavybots, wsp and gold weapons. He was totally abusing my team until i took him down with my boa, going down myself in the process. What sort of evil matchmaking is this. Its like pix wanted me to lose for sure.
Can someone explain why this and why me? The reason it seemed like Pixonic wanted you to lose is because Pixonic wanted you to lose. The matchmaking is currently programmed to match players against high or low level enemies, dependent on your win rate. They're trying to keep you around 50%, so you'll probably go through a lot more losses before your score is reduced and you can start winning again. And before you even ask; No, no there isn't anything you can do about it. Even if you aren't overwhelmed by the enemy, your team (also selected for win-culling) certainly will be. If you can't handle every game being rigged (and believe me, I can't blame you) I'd advise you abandon this game as soon as possible, because the matchmaking doesn't seem to be improving any day soon. If you're still into giant 'bot games, there's an upcoming project called Battle Titans, created by the old devs of War Robots. It's definitely worth a look. Oh yes! I have understood this pretty clearly. Here's another match of mine, had to carry my team pretty much by myself, yet the opponents won by sheer strength of numbers. This is so disappointing? Why cull players who are good at it? Why not just pit them all together against each other? If i am at 70% win rate, pit me against players with similar level/strength and let the better team win! Why penalize good players by pitting them in a team like this? Check this screenshot and tell me am wrong at being disappointed. This is all i could manage with my all-silver setup. Sigh!
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Post by steveo666 on May 31, 2017 10:26:48 GMT -5
Because When som e players are getting crushed by superior weapons and bots, they end up spending money to try and match those superior weapons and bots.
The only way to beat the mm system is to be all maxed out, and squad with people that are maxed as well.
Then and only then is it based on skill.
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Post by steveo666 on May 31, 2017 10:27:05 GMT -5
oops
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Post by Russel on May 31, 2017 10:31:27 GMT -5
The reason it seemed like Pixonic wanted you to lose is because Pixonic wanted you to lose. The matchmaking is currently programmed to match players against high or low level enemies, dependent on your win rate. They're trying to keep you around 50%, so you'll probably go through a lot more losses before your score is reduced and you can start winning again. And before you even ask; No, no there isn't anything you can do about it. Even if you aren't overwhelmed by the enemy, your team (also selected for win-culling) certainly will be. If you can't handle every game being rigged (and believe me, I can't blame you) I'd advise you abandon this game as soon as possible, because the matchmaking doesn't seem to be improving any day soon. If you're still into giant 'bot games, there's an upcoming project called Battle Titans, created by the old devs of War Robots. It's definitely worth a look. Oh yes! I have understood this pretty clearly. Here's another match of mine, had to carry my team pretty much by myself, yet the opponents won by sheer strength of numbers. This is so disappointing? Why cull players who are good at it? Why not just pit them all together against each other? If i am at 70% win rate, pit me against players with similar level/strength and let the better team win! Why penalize good players by pitting them in a team like this? Check this screenshot and tell me am wrong at being disappointed. This is all i could manage with my all-silver setup. Sigh! :( Well, I think you guys are getting this the wrong way. 50% win rate is NOT the reason of a MM, it is the result. The idea is to put similarly powerful players together. And it does not matter why you are "powerful" - is it weapon\bot being maxxed out, or your skill. So think of it this way: You get PERFECT matchmaking, what it would do? It would put you against player of the same skill\bots as you are, right? Then the next question - what average winrate would be of a 100 games against the same skill player? So, use Occam's razor here, and do not try to make up conspiracy theory about Pixx :-D
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 10:31:56 GMT -5
Welcome to the suck, friend. This ^^
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Post by Russel on May 31, 2017 10:33:41 GMT -5
Oh yes! I have understood this pretty clearly. This is all i could manage with my all-silver setup. Sigh! :( Oh I am sure you will be capable of much, much more in a month or so with your Silver hangar ;)
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Post by zer00eyz on May 31, 2017 10:37:51 GMT -5
Returning player, dumped into private because no league score...
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Post by Mechman-Mechout on May 31, 2017 10:39:22 GMT -5
Because that doesn't make Pixonic money. According to most theories, the reason losses are forced is to keep players frustrated. Frustrated players buy more stuff and level more gear, so they can get a few wins and feel good about themselves before the cycle starts all over again. It keeps people playing and, most importantly, keeps them paying.
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sdn
Recruit
Posts: 8
Karma: 4
League: Gold
Server Region: Asia
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Post by sdn on May 31, 2017 11:00:18 GMT -5
Because that doesn't make Pixonic money. According to most theories, the reason losses are forced is to keep players frustrated. Frustrated players buy more stuff and level more gear, so they can get a few wins and feel good about themselves before the cycle starts all over again. It keeps people playing and, most importantly, keeps them paying. This!
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Post by SoCalGrndR on May 31, 2017 11:02:55 GMT -5
Let the screenshots speak for themselves. I was put in a match where the opponents were so owerpowered. My team members were just about equal in strength as i was. Check out one of the opponent players. Higher level, all heavybots, wsp and gold weapons. He was totally abusing my team until i took him down with my boa, going down myself in the process. What sort of evil matchmaking is this. Its like pix wanted me to lose for sure.
Can someone explain why this and why me? Unfortunately that is part of the 'suck'. The MM will give you battles were you face overpowered Reds on a regular basis. You will also have battles that you are facing near equal reds, but your blue team is underpowered. It will continue to happen; Welcome to the MATRIX friend, you have swallowed the blue pill!!I play in Expert II, my hanger is L9/L11, I face 12/12 hangers & near on a regular basis. I had a run last week - 8 battles, lost 6. I had to play against Champion Clan Squads 3 times. The last 3 battles, 2 were against the same damn squad! I was the only pilot given this 'opportunity' to test myself.
Just know it will continue to happen as you progress.
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[AurL] Valiant
Destrier
Posts: 101
Karma: 53
Pilot name: ValiantSr
Platform: Android
Clan: Aurora Luvenis
League: Diamond
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Griffin
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Post by [AurL] Valiant on May 31, 2017 11:12:02 GMT -5
Ok so I get your complaint but the guy has a so so hanger and is only a league up from you - A league that I expect you will be in soon. You are clearlying playing above the people around you and will likely see more players from bronze going forward. Let's objectively look at that comparison. 1) the guy was higher level - yeah but level really means basically nothing in this game it just shows he has played longer then you (though that hanger needs some major work) 2) he has better weapons - kind of he has a bunch of low level versions of later weapons (if his hanger was all lvl'd then yes that would be a major issue for you - the work I mentioned above) 3) yes he has heavy bots (Griffin and Leo are both good future Ag purchases for leveling) your boa can be competitive with those bots but you need to level it (bot level is survivability and weapon level is dps you need both) 4) Your skill level appears to be a lot higher than the people you are currently playing with and I would assume you will be rising soon in the league system expect a drop in your win rate at first, it will fluctuate up and down as you rise through the leagues and as your hanger rises to meet your skill level then eventually the system will balance you out at around 50% with people of similar skill. 5) At face value it would appear his skill level is not as strong and likely some of the weapons came from the recent anniversary event (though I did notice he has a clan tag). So my advice hunker down level your bots (especially the boa) and keep doing what you are doing (seems to be working) and for better groups start looking for a clan or a solid group of friends to play with as that is one thing you can't control when soloing. Best of luck SDN oh and this thread title should be "I trounced a Bronze playing in Private."
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 11:21:12 GMT -5
Because that doesn't make Pixonic money. According to most theories, the reason losses are forced is to keep players frustrated. Frustrated players buy more stuff and level more gear, so they can get a few wins and feel good about themselves before the cycle starts all over again. It keeps people playing and, most importantly, keeps them paying. Why pay when you can tank? I had considered buying some gold, ancilot package, 6500 gold, but then decided not to. Why? Glad you asked, the MM sucks. ELO needs to die a horrible death at the hands of a geptard. Buy gold, get better bots / upgrade faster. Sounds good, until you realise; you'll have to do it again in a week or two. And a week or two later. And a week or two later. Might as well suffer and build up slowly. Or, sadly, fade down leagues.
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Post by adrenachrome on May 31, 2017 11:41:42 GMT -5
Happens all the time. Don't worry about team wins and losses bro. This screenshot is a win even tho it's says lose. Why is it a win you say? Because I did the most damage against overwhelming odds. That's means I have good strategy and solid bots. Also it's a win because losses keep me in a lower tier where I can be more dominant. If you need to win every battle this is not the game for you I am afraid. Or buy 12/12 bots and join a clan.... Up to you ?
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Post by Poopface on May 31, 2017 11:52:40 GMT -5
OP, you outscored the guy lol just wait til you get a match up vs all Champions like this! (while being in expert) The beacon bar went down very quickly haha Unfortunately, I've been on the receiving end of a lot of those matches in the last week.
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Post by Russel on May 31, 2017 12:29:50 GMT -5
Let the screenshots speak for themselves. I was put in a match where the opponents were so owerpowered. My team members were just about equal in strength as i was. Check out one of the opponent players. Higher level, all heavybots, wsp and gold weapons. He was totally abusing my team until i took him down with my boa, going down myself in the process. What sort of evil matchmaking is this. Its like pix wanted me to lose for sure.
Can someone explain why this and why me? Unfortunately that is part of the 'suck'. The MM will give you battles were you face overpowered Reds on a regular basis. You will also have battles that you are facing near equal reds, but your blue team is underpowered. It will continue to happen; Welcome to the MATRIX friend, you have swallowed the blue pill!!I play in Expert II, my hanger is L9/L11, I face 12/12 hangers & near on a regular basis. I had a run last week - 8 battles, lost 6. I had to play against Champion Clan Squads 3 times. The last 3 battles, 2 were against the same damn squad! I was the only pilot given this 'opportunity' to test myself.
Just know it will continue to happen as you progress. Your situation is different, Pixx said that there are not much players on Expert and higher tier, so that's why they are often mixed together.
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Post by Scuzzbopper on May 31, 2017 12:38:52 GMT -5
It's also been anecdotally mentioned that at the higher tears squading up becomes almost a necessity. As more players reach this level it may change but I would imagine that at some point going it alone against a squad of commed-in clanners is pretty tough.
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Post by Russel on May 31, 2017 12:40:18 GMT -5
It's also been anecdotally mentioned that at the higher tears squading up becomes almost a necessity. As more players reach this level it may change but I would imagine that at some point going it alone against a squad of commed-in clanners is pretty tough. Nothing can beat a good teamplay. Even having equipment 3-4 level lower would not compensate for that.
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Post by llama4president on May 31, 2017 12:58:39 GMT -5
Lol sdn you are at 1078 league points. you are so near to face people with 4 hangar slots 8/8. Brace yourself!
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Post by vigusfatbelly on May 31, 2017 13:56:02 GMT -5
Let the screenshots speak for themselves. I was put in a match where the opponents were so owerpowered. My team members were just about equal in strength as i was. Check out one of the opponent players. Higher level, all heavybots, wsp and gold weapons. He was totally abusing my team until i took him down with my boa, going down myself in the process. What sort of evil matchmaking is this. Its like pix wanted me to lose for sure.
Can someone explain why this and why me? Looks like you lost because neither you, nor anyone else on your team really thought about capping beacons. Sounds like a case of soreass bad piloting to me.
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Post by Russel on May 31, 2017 14:03:53 GMT -5
Let the screenshots speak for themselves. I was put in a match where the opponents were so owerpowered. My team members were just about equal in strength as i was. Check out one of the opponent players. Higher level, all heavybots, wsp and gold weapons. He was totally abusing my team until i took him down with my boa, going down myself in the process. What sort of evil matchmaking is this. Its like pix wanted me to lose for sure.
Can someone explain why this and why me? Looks like you lost because neither you, nor anyone else on your team really thought about capping beacons. Sounds like a case of soreass bad piloting to me. I give you the classic
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Post by Mechman-Mechout on May 31, 2017 14:09:51 GMT -5
Oh yes! I have understood this pretty clearly. Here's another match of mine, had to carry my team pretty much by myself, yet the opponents won by sheer strength of numbers. This is so disappointing? Why cull players who are good at it? Why not just pit them all together against each other? If i am at 70% win rate, pit me against players with similar level/strength and let the better team win! Why penalize good players by pitting them in a team like this? Check this screenshot and tell me am wrong at being disappointed. This is all i could manage with my all-silver setup. Sigh! Well, I think you guys are getting this the wrong way. 50% win rate is NOT the reason of a MM, it is the result. The idea is to put similarly powerful players together. And it does not matter why you are "powerful" - is it weapon\bot being maxxed out, or your skill. So think of it this way: You get PERFECT matchmaking, what it would do? It would put you against player of the same skill\bots as you are, right? Then the next question - what average winrate would be of a 100 games against the same skill player? So, use Occam's razor here, and do not try to make up conspiracy theory about Pixx :-D In my experience, and I say this politely, that's absolute nonsense. I've seen hundreds of entirely lopsided games where it's obvious one side has the complete upper hand throughout, games where the enemy kills my entire team yet fails to have a single member of theirs mech out, games where the enemy beacon bar remains nearly full while ours shrivels away. This just doesn't happen if the matchmaking is balanced, you don't get curb-stomped if you stand a decent chance. At most, you'd go down with a proper fight. I can understand losing with two players down, or maybe just barely missing the beacon that could turn the tide, because those sorts of things are down to fluke. You could say you lost those two guys because you didn't cover them or they got outmaneuvered, and you lost the beacon because a Gareth got in your way. Look at that battle in retrospect and, while disappointed for the loss, you'll recognize how you lost and amend your playstyle accordingly. In contrast, (and apologies if this is redundant) you know a rigged game when you see it. Red charges your points faster than you can reclaim them, you notice you start losing players at an alarming rate when you try to hold an area, and all the while there's damage coming from everywhere at once. You feel powerless to stop anything because you have no team, and you have no team because you're powerless to stop anything. When you hit the wall, you hit it hard.
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Post by Russel on May 31, 2017 14:31:40 GMT -5
Well, I think you guys are getting this the wrong way. 50% win rate is NOT the reason of a MM, it is the result. The idea is to put similarly powerful players together. And it does not matter why you are "powerful" - is it weapon\bot being maxxed out, or your skill. So think of it this way: You get PERFECT matchmaking, what it would do? It would put you against player of the same skill\bots as you are, right? Then the next question - what average winrate would be of a 100 games against the same skill player? So, use Occam's razor here, and do not try to make up conspiracy theory about Pixx :-D In my experience, and I say this politely, that's absolute nonsense. I've seen hundreds of entirely lopsided games where it's obvious one side has the complete upper hand throughout, games where the enemy kills my entire team yet fails to have a single member of theirs mech out, games where the enemy beacon bar remains nearly full while ours shrivels away. This just doesn't happen if the matchmaking is balanced, you don't get curb-stomped if you stand a decent chance. At most, you'd go down with a proper fight. I can understand losing with two players down, or maybe just barely missing the beacon that could turn the tide, because those sorts of things are down to fluke. You could say you lost those two guys because you didn't cover them or they got outmaneuvered, and you lost the beacon because a Gareth got in your way. Look at that battle in retrospect and, while disappointed for the loss, you'll recognize how you lost and amend your playstyle accordingly. In contrast, (and apologies if this is redundant) you know a rigged game when you see it. Red charges your points faster than you can reclaim them, you notice you start losing players at an alarming rate when you try to hold an area, and all the while there's damage coming from everywhere at once. You feel powerless to stop anything because you have no team, and you have no team because you're powerless to stop anything. When you hit the wall, you hit it hard. Well, I think you are overreacting. It is pretty hard to design a good algorithm. And I haven't got that "wall" experience at all, up to D2. There were some crazy 「dookie」 for sure, but more like "wow, what that?" And then its back to normal. More than that, I felt that higher I go the easier it is to win, because teammates are so much better, and we can actually have "team play". But in case you are getting what you describe - I bet you were having a lot of very easy matches prior to that, am I correct?
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Post by Mechman-Mechout on May 31, 2017 16:20:16 GMT -5
In my experience, and I say this politely, that's absolute nonsense. I've seen hundreds of entirely lopsided games where it's obvious one side has the complete upper hand throughout, games where the enemy kills my entire team yet fails to have a single member of theirs mech out, games where the enemy beacon bar remains nearly full while ours shrivels away. This just doesn't happen if the matchmaking is balanced, you don't get curb-stomped if you stand a decent chance. At most, you'd go down with a proper fight. I can understand losing with two players down, or maybe just barely missing the beacon that could turn the tide, because those sorts of things are down to fluke. You could say you lost those two guys because you didn't cover them or they got outmaneuvered, and you lost the beacon because a Gareth got in your way. Look at that battle in retrospect and, while disappointed for the loss, you'll recognize how you lost and amend your playstyle accordingly. In contrast, (and apologies if this is redundant) you know a rigged game when you see it. Red charges your points faster than you can reclaim them, you notice you start losing players at an alarming rate when you try to hold an area, and all the while there's damage coming from everywhere at once. You feel powerless to stop anything because you have no team, and you have no team because you're powerless to stop anything. When you hit the wall, you hit it hard. Well, I think you are overreacting. It is pretty hard to design a good algorithm. And I haven't got that "wall" experience at all, up to D2. There were some crazy ?poo-poo? for sure, but more like "wow, what that?" And then its back to normal. More than that, I felt that higher I go the easier it is to win, because teammates are so much better, and we can actually have "team play". But in case you are getting what you describe - I bet you were having a lot of very easy matches prior to that, am I correct? If you have no problem playing a game with a predetermined outcome (stretching the definition of "game", if you ask me" then that's a good thing, but only for you. People who care about things like "fair play" and "healthy competition" will be a bit pressed for options. Yes, matches wherein it was clear we were meant to be the curb-stompers. Everything I mentioned in my latter comment applied to us. We were the ones snatching all the beacons, the one gutting pushes and covering the map in fallen bots. Which is only marginally more fun than losing, because then you don't feel like you really worked for your pay. Frankly, I think the best approach to this game is to ignore the contrived matchmaking and focus on having fun regardless of wins or losses. It's a pretty decent little shooter, even without any competitive elements.
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Post by Russel on May 31, 2017 16:31:33 GMT -5
If you have no problem playing a game with a predetermined outcome (stretching the definition of "game", if you ask me" then that's a good thing, but only for you. People who care about things like "fair play" and "healthy competition" will be a bit pressed for options. Yes, matches wherein it was clear we were meant to be the curb-stompers. Everything I mentioned in my latter comment applied to us. We were the ones snatching all the beacons, the one gutting pushes and covering the map in fallen bots. Which is only marginally more fun than losing, because then you don't feel like you really worked for your pay. Well, then here is the answer to your question. You were progressing too fast, and to give you decent competition MM was forced to compensate in big steps. I presume that you are not working in IT or mathematical sphere of any sort; The problem (and it is a real one) is to sort HUGE amount of values (players) in some kind of ranking system. More than that, each variable (player) is constantly changing - improving, upgrading weapons, replacing bots, buying something new, optimizing hangar for a map. So, moving in small steps won't ever work, because it would be pretty darn slow (think: years) to sort out several thousands of players this way. No bubble sorting or bisection method would work here. The problem is purely mathematical, and every solution here on forum works great for 10-1000 playerbase, but won't work for several thousands fast enough. If you really like to get inside of the problem - I can provide you with more technical details; if you are just willing to rant and find proof of a conspiracy - then I won't interfere more
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Post by Mechman-Mechout on May 31, 2017 17:51:28 GMT -5
If you have no problem playing a game with a predetermined outcome (stretching the definition of "game", if you ask me" then that's a good thing, but only for you. People who care about things like "fair play" and "healthy competition" will be a bit pressed for options. Yes, matches wherein it was clear we were meant to be the curb-stompers. Everything I mentioned in my latter comment applied to us. We were the ones snatching all the beacons, the one gutting pushes and covering the map in fallen bots. Which is only marginally more fun than losing, because then you don't feel like you really worked for your pay. Well, then here is the answer to your question. You were progressing too fast, and to give you decent competition MM was forced to compensate in big steps. I presume that you are not working in IT or mathematical sphere of any sort; The problem (and it is a real one) is to sort HUGE amount of values (players) in some kind of ranking system. More than that, each variable (player) is constantly changing - improving, upgrading weapons, replacing bots, buying something new, optimizing hangar for a map. So, moving in small steps won't ever work, because it would be pretty darn slow (think: years) to sort out several thousands of players this way. No bubble sorting or bisection method would work here. The problem is purely mathematical, and every solution here on forum works great for 10-1000 playerbase, but won't work for several thousands fast enough. If you really like to get inside of the problem - I can provide you with more technical details; if you are just willing to rant and find proof of a conspiracy - then I won't interfere more Alright then, running with that line of logic, if I'm always facing people who are my equal then why am I progressing so fast? You've said I should win my battles 50/50 yet if I did, I wouldn't shoot up so quickly that such a vicious punting would be required to get me back down to earth. Doesn't sound like the matchmaker is as competent at measuring my progress as you claim. Which, in fact, you go on to admit, as you say that with all the variables in the equation there isn't any way the matchmaker can give everyone a fair game, giving even more credence to the theory of pre-determined battles. Like you said; Making even roughly equal fights is an impossibility with all the changing factors, so, applying occam's razor, why should Pixonic bother trying to correct the uncorrectable when there is instead a much easier solution that also happens to make them more money? Also, the reaction image macro passed expiration date years ago. Try using this much more spicy meme.
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