|
|
Post by Ron Gaul on Dec 8, 2016 16:47:36 GMT -5
So. The first generation of mechs in War Robots is effectively becoming obsolete. Only the Fury and Griffin are still truly viable in top tier; Leo makes a valiant effort, and in good hands can still be dangerous in Gold tier, but far more prevalent are the WSP bots, Fury, Griff, and now the Britbots.
The new swap bots are going to be interesting, but no more. They won't change the game majorly.
The trouble is that adding any new bot type runs the risk of majorly upsetting the power balance in a bad way, unless the new bot is very carefully balanced. Developing new bots is always good, but...there's only so many different things you can do.
So, why not simply add new versions of some older bots? Not replace the old ones; add updated versions to the game alongside the originals? The Destrier and Stalker are essentially two versions of the same bot; I view the Destrier as the first-generation bot while the Stalker is a late-model advanced version designed to address the weaknesses in the Destrier design. Why not play further on that theme? In the course of any war, nations develop existing weapons, building in the same platform to create what is still very similar to the original but is far superior.
Vityaz Mk II - "Molotok" (Hammer) - 10% higher speed and HP than Vityaz, plus frontal physical shielding to protect Vityaz from plasma and gunfire. A stronger, faster Vitz thrown together to defend against the onset of the britbots. Cost: 13,000 WSP
Golem Mk II - "Manalit" (Monolith) - like Molotok, Manalit is armored in front to protect against plasma and gunfire. However Manalit has an additional armor plate on the rear, rendering additional protection against attacks from behind. Manalit has 15% less HP than Golem but has 20% higher speed. Manalit is an assault weapon, designed to storm enemy lines and operate alone if necessary, being able to fight while surrounded. Cost: 13,000 WSP
Patton Mk II - "D.D. Ike" - like the Destrier, the Patton is outclassed. The Ike is the development version of the Patton, making use of the same stealth technology utilized on the Destrier. Ike has the same HP as Patton but is 20% less susceptible to critical hits, as well as being 10% faster. Stealth ability identical with Stalker. Cost: 13,000 WSP
Griffin Mk II - "Gargoyle" - while not outclassed, the Griffin is beginning to show its age. As such, an updated version was created with 10% higher speed, 10% lower HP, 25% less vulnerability to critical hits, and the Stealth ability which activates as soon as Jump is triggered. Stealth cannot be activated apart from Jump; the abilities are tied together and also require 30 seconds to recharge. Gargoyle is designed to operate from ambush positions, leaping in to attack or else leaping away to avoid an enemy salvo. Cost: 15,000 WSP
Boa Mk II - "Python" - the Python is a developed Boa with a fast-charging inbuilt Ancile shield as well as 10% greater speed than Boa. Cost: 13,000 WSP
Leo Mk II - "Panther" - the Leo is a strong, sturdy platform, but against Lancelot or Rhino it is sadly outclassed, more often than not. An improvement was needed, and thus was born the Panther: increased firepower thanks to one light hardpoint being replaced with a medium hardpoint; only 5% susceptibility to critical hits, and the ability to self-repair during battle and regenerate 50% of current health (weapons do not regenerate). This ability has a 30-second cooldown. Speed and HP remain the same as the previous model. Cost: 15,000 WSP
These bots would add significantly to the viable bot options in Gold tier, which, once the Leagues system is implemented for MM, will make a huge difference.
None of these would require completely new models to be built, as they are all developments of existing platforms. Thus there would be a vastly reduced development time.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by Strayed on Dec 8, 2016 16:53:42 GMT -5
Ehhh... Griffin doesn't need an mk 2.
Ike would be a tad bit overpowered as well.
Okay, boa mk 2 would definitely be op. Decrease its health to 150k.
|
|
|
|
Post by blueraider on Dec 8, 2016 16:54:34 GMT -5
I think that's a whole lot of WSP to save lol. Some good ideas though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Strayed on Dec 8, 2016 16:54:48 GMT -5
I would probably recommend forgoing stealth on any non light class bot.
|
|
|
|
Post by Strayed on Dec 8, 2016 16:55:26 GMT -5
I think that's a whole lot of WSP to save lol. Some good ideas though. It would probably do wonders for the value of WSP. |
|
|
|
Post by Strayed on Dec 8, 2016 17:01:10 GMT -5
In my opinion, what we need is more new weapons.
Medium: medium aphid, medium thunder, medium gecko
Heavy: heavy taran, heavy pinata
Also, we don't need anymore shield bots, if we add in anymore, then the meta will just become six trident furies 「wee-wee」ing around and plasma weaps would be useless. There are already enough shield bots in play.
|
|
|
|
Post by SGT D00M! on Dec 8, 2016 18:50:30 GMT -5
Medium thunder, hmm trying to picture that.... Medium Aphid and gekko? Heavy Plasma? Yes!!
To the OP,
Rog mkii: has the third medium hardpoint it should have always had and retains jump, just a little slower.
|
|
|
|
Post by War Child on Dec 9, 2016 1:08:01 GMT -5
I picture a medium thunder as a regular thunder only fliped sideways and smaller but with a tigher bullet spread but less ammo.I picture a heavy arran as a trebuchet and taran had a baby.And I picture a heavy zenit that fires all its rockets with a range of 400m with a reload of 18 sec(rockets have same speed as tulu/cvr)
|
|
|
|
Post by Strayed on Dec 9, 2016 1:14:02 GMT -5
I'm picturing a medium thunder as being similar in appearance to a pump action shotgun, only with a larger pump similar to the taran's underside and a larger barrel.
I'd rather not have a light thunder as the stalker would become overpowered.
|
|
|
|
Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 9, 2016 1:46:23 GMT -5
I'm picturing a medium thunder as being similar in appearance to a pump action shotgun, only with a larger pump similar to the tarans underside and a larger barrel. I'd rather not have a light thunder as the stalker would become overpowered. wreckingball fujin incoming  |
|
|
|
Post by War Child on Dec 9, 2016 1:59:05 GMT -5
So. The first generation of mechs in War Robots is effectively becoming obsolete. Only the Fury and Griffin are still truly viable in top tier; Leo makes a valiant effort, and in good hands can still be dangerous in Gold tier, but far more prevalent are the WSP bots, Fury, Griff, and now the Britbots. The new swap bots are going to be interesting, but no more. They won't change the game majorly. The trouble is that adding any new bot type runs the risk of majorly upsetting the power balance in a bad way, unless the new bot is very carefully balanced. Developing new bots is always good, but...there's only so many different things you can do. So, why not simply add new versions of some older bots? Not replace the old ones; add updated versions to the game alongside the originals? The Destrier and Stalker are essentially two versions of the same bot; I view the Destrier as the first-generation bot while the Stalker is a late-model advanced version designed to address the weaknesses in the Destrier design. Why not play further on that theme? In the course of any war, nations develop existing weapons, building in the same platform to create what is still very similar to the original but is far superior.(use a fast ancile shielding(3% regen at least),we already have enough rockets flying around,most mediums these days are extinct in gold tier) Vityaz Mk II - "Molotok" (Hammer) - 10% higher speed and HP than Vityaz, plus frontal physical shielding to protect Vityaz from plasma and gunfire. A stronger, faster Vitz thrown together to defend against the onset of the britbots. Cost: 13,000 WSP Golem Mk II - "Manalit" (Monolith) - like Molotok, Manalit is armored in front to protect against plasma and gunfire. However Manalit has an additional armor plate on the rear, rendering additional protection against attacks from behind. Manalit has 15% less HP than Golem but has 20% higher speed. Manalit is an assault weapon, designed to storm enemy lines and operate alone if necessary, being able to fight while surrounded. Cost: 13,000 WSP (there are already too much shield bots,use a fast charging ancile instead if you want to protect him from all sides(3% per second would be fine)) Patton Mk II - "D.D. Ike" - like the Destrier, the Patton is outclassed. The Ike is the development version of the Patton, making use of the same stealth technology utilized on the Destrier. Ike has the same HP as Patton but is 20% less susceptible to critical hits, as well as being 10% faster. Stealth ability identical with Stalker. Cost: 13,000 WSP(cooldown of ability should be 20-25 sec to balance things out) Griffin Mk II - "Gargoyle" - while not outclassed, the Griffin is beginning to show its age. As such, an updated version was created with 10% higher speed, 10% lower HP, 25% less vulnerability to critical hits, and the Stealth ability which activates as soon as Jump is triggered. Stealth cannot be activated apart from Jump; the abilities are tied together and also require 30 seconds to recharge. Gargoyle is designed to operate from ambush positions, leaping in to attack or else leaping away to avoid an enemy salvo. Cost: 15,000 WSP Boa Mk II - "Python" - the Python is a developed Boa with a fast-charging inbuilt Ancile shield as well as 10% greater speed than Boa. Cost: 13,000 WSP (no,too op,ancile regen should be 2-3% per second.besides boa is still competetive in low gold) Leo Mk II - "Panther" - the Leo is a strong, sturdy platform, but against Lancelot or Rhino it is sadly outclassed, more often than not. An improvement was needed, and thus was born the Panther: increased firepower thanks to one light hardpoint being replaced with a medium hardpoint; only 5% susceptibility to critical hits, and the ability to self-repair during battle and regenerate 50% of current health (weapons do not regenerate). This ability has a 30-second cooldown. Speed and HP remain the same as the previous model. Cost: 15,000 WSP. (no.instead,he would regen his health to 50% then turn it into an ability that last 10 sec with a cooldown of 50 sec) These bots would add significantly to the viable bot options in Gold tier, which, once the Leagues system is implemented for MM, will make a huge difference. None of these would require completely new models to be built, as they are all developments of existing platforms. Thus there would be a vastly reduced development time. Thoughts? I want to buff carnage and the anicile shields...I want to counter those rockets especialy TT furys |
|
|
|
Post by War Child on Dec 9, 2016 2:18:10 GMT -5
Natasha Mk2"Bog Lagerya"-a strong rival of fury,although she still keeps her light hardpoints and dual heavy hardpoints.She rivals that of fury because of her mobility as she starts out at a speed of 32 and max out with 35 with a slightly higher health of fury herself.she has no special abilities nor sheilding
Scutz Mk2-wait,we already have carnage,nevermind
|
|
|
|
Post by Strayed on Dec 9, 2016 2:56:03 GMT -5
I'm picturing a medium thunder as being similar in appearance to a pump action shotgun, only with a larger pump similar to the tarans underside and a larger barrel. I'd rather not have a light thunder as the stalker would become overpowered. wreckingball fujin incoming Not really, then it would suffer from the same problems as the carnage, only with a non-permanent shield and much lower speed. I'm thinking that it would breathe new life into the rog and the cossack. The britbots mainly depend on their speed to counter rocketry, so using the medium thunder won't work out well for them unless they're a lance. And the lance is 5000 gold, so it should be more powerful than the galahad. |
|
|
|
Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 9, 2016 3:05:28 GMT -5
wreckingball fujin incoming Not really, then it would suffer from the same problems as the carnage, only with a non-permanent shield and much lower speed. I'm thinking that it would breathe new life into the rog and the cossack. The britbots mainly depend on their speed to counter rocketry, so using the medium thunder won't work out well for them unless they're a lance. And the lance is 5000 gold, so it should be more powerful than the galahad. omg I didn't even think of full thunder Lance XDDD what a death machine |
|
|
|
Post by 《₩hirl》 on Dec 9, 2016 5:18:17 GMT -5
I'd rather not have a light thunder as the stalker would become overpowered. Awwww but but but...... awww |
|
|
|
Post by SGT D00M! on Dec 9, 2016 9:30:52 GMT -5
wreckingball fujin incoming Not really, then it would suffer from the same problems as the carnage, only with a non-permanent shield and much lower speed. I'm thinking that it would breathe new life into the rog and the cossack. The britbots mainly depend on their speed to counter rocketry, so using the medium thunder won't work out well for them unless they're a lance. And the lance is 5000 gold, so it should be more powerful than the galahad. Medium gekko and aphid would help my sentimental favorites, the cossack and rog as well. A medium aphid Rog should be a more effective ambush machine then the Patton mini-nuke. |
|
|
|
Post by EatStinkyTofu on Dec 9, 2016 11:39:59 GMT -5
Good idea in general or add function in game to augment existing bots in some way. Seems like relatively easy way for Pix to add content and bring in revenue.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 14:59:48 GMT -5
Op seems a little shield happy, some of the changes would be a little OP or would leave other WSP bots even worse off then they already are. Keeping in the same spirit...
For reskinned, rebalanced bots:
All Ag:(3x previous version cost, lv 25+ players)
Cossak v2: +6k base/max HP, Right side has a small, stationary Ecu
Vityaz v2: -5k base/max HP, +2kmph base/max speed, All 3 Hard-points on one side.
Golem v2: GIVE IT BACK THE MEDIUM+LIGHT ON THE SAME SIDE
Patton v2: Reduced width/height
Leo v2: Increase torso rotation rate %20, Stationary Ecu on back ( LOOK AT IT!!!LOOOK)
Natasha V2: Decrease width (fatty has a hard time with small places), no light hardpoints(Just 2 heavy),+8k Hp, +4 kmph base/max (Fat Carnage for the win!!)
WSP:
Shutze v2: +15k base/max HP, +5 base/max speed, Rush ability (66% speed boost, 8 seconds, 16 second reload) Thunder on speed...might just be 1, but good luck hitting a 82kmph bot vomiting buckshot without MEMU
Griffin V2: Shorter frame, Rog jump height/length/cooldown.
Au:
Rog v2: +1 light hardpoint
Griffin v3: Give it a 2 piece version of Chubb's shield.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ron Gaul on Dec 9, 2016 16:03:38 GMT -5
Only Golem V2 and Vitz V2 receive physical shields in my version; thus they become resistant to plasma but weaker against rockets due to lower HP. Boa V2, on review I've gotta say it probably needs a nerf in HP. Ancile shields make it resistant against rockets, but Boa is already a tank. So, the Python concept also receives a 7% nerf in total HP. Thus this new version becomes weaker against plasma but stronger against rockets and firearms, as well as faster in general.
Otherwise, those were the only shields I suggested. Ike is a faster, stealthier Patton which doesn't pop weapons off; Gargoyle is an even more mobile Griffin, capable of devastating and almost unstoppable surprise attacks but horribly vulnerable if caught with Jump unavailable. Panther is a tanker's tank, with no protective shields but the ability to make the most of its already prodigious health and with boosted firepower to allow it to face bots like Lancelot and Fury on more equal terms. Even if a Trident Fury unloads into him, Panther will still be able to recover much of his health and will also be at very low risk of losing any weapons, thus meaning that once range is finally closed, Fury's gonna die.
|
|
|
|
Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 9, 2016 17:35:41 GMT -5
If golem and vit had physical shields the only bot I would run in bronze is pinata gep or pinata Patton.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ron Gaul on Dec 9, 2016 18:30:20 GMT -5
If golem and vit had physical shields the only bot I would run in bronze is pinata gep or pinata Patton. The Golem and Vitz wouldn't be replaced by these bots. The new versions would be completely separate, and would receive MM penalties similar to Gareth, Galahad, and other WSP bots. Thus they wouldn't compete in low/mid Silver tier; these bots would be primarily aimed at higher levels. |
|
|
|
Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 9, 2016 18:32:14 GMT -5
If golem and vit had physical shields the only bot I would run in bronze is pinata gep or pinata Patton. The Golem and Vitz wouldn't be replaced by these bots. The new versions would be completely separate, and would receive MM penalties similar to Gareth, Galahad, and other WSP bots. Thus they wouldn't compete in low/mid Silver tier; these bots would be primarily aimed at higher levels. oh, in that case they are worse than the galahad. |
|
|
|
Post by Ron Gaul on Dec 9, 2016 19:12:26 GMT -5
Do you mean they'd be stronger than Galahad? Or they'd just be meh?
|
|
|
|
Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 9, 2016 19:19:27 GMT -5
Do you mean they'd be stronger than Galahad? Or they'd just be meh? i mean compared to the galahad they are not as good. Sure they have a thunder and act kinda like a mini Lancelot, however this is what makes the Lance good... 1. Both Tarans and Orkans are burst weapons capable of killing off most bots, and the thunder compensates for the damage that the respective weapons were not able to deal for a quick kill close-range. 2. The rush ability frequently gives you a window of surprise to engage your target as opposed to the normal approach speed (one of the things that make the carnage a very good bot also) The things that make the galahad better than these new proposed bots: 1. More mobile and able to backpedal 2. All hardpoints on 1 side for very easy and effective cornershooting. 3. Changeable shield from front to side actually comes in handy very often. The new bots probosed have more damage potential in theory as opposed to the galahad, however the galahad as it Is now is just so perfect that I don't see another medium bot trumping it anytime soon. |
|
Neg0Pander
Site Designer!
Grab 'em by the Griffin
Posts: 329
Karma: 221
Pilot name: Neg0Pander
Platform: Android
Clan: WIKITTENS [WiKi]
League: Silver
|
Post by Neg0Pander on Dec 9, 2016 23:13:44 GMT -5
All of those are fun ideas, and maybe some could be implemented somehow into new bots, but one thing I like about this game is the nothing is exactly "obsolete" it's just either outclassed in at higher tiers (which is fine, not all bots should be able to compete at the highest level) or they are "pre-buff". I like the fact that they try and keep each bot an weapon relevant (if only somewhat successfully). This makes it less PTW and balanced of course.
|
|
Neg0Pander
Site Designer!
Grab 'em by the Griffin
Posts: 329
Karma: 221
Pilot name: Neg0Pander
Platform: Android
Clan: WIKITTENS [WiKi]
League: Silver
|
Post by Neg0Pander on Dec 9, 2016 23:13:58 GMT -5
How about this option for some of the older bots, though: Instead of a buff, raise the level cap. Leo goes to lvl13, gains 20k Armor and 2 KPH speed, it might not seem so obsolete. The time and money to get to 13 would be a lot, but for those willing to invest in a bot they love, it might be worth it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ron Gaul on Dec 9, 2016 23:14:33 GMT -5
That is exactly why the proposed bots are as they are; they're not supposed to be stronger than Galahad. They're WSP bots, which are stronger than Ag but not quite so premium and thus not quite as strong as Au bots. These are intended to be more competitive options for upper tiers - challenging to use, definitely not replacing the britbots in useability, but offering a viable option similar to how Carnage and Fujin are both specialty weapons. Once mastered, they can both be very effective.
|
|
