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Post by Koalabear on Jul 22, 2024 7:41:40 GMT -5
Ok, I figure I'd get this thread started. Hopefully we can use this thread to post some of our experiences and ways we've adapted to the new world order. I've decided not to stay too obsessed over my two favourite builds getting nerfed into oblivion and my new "fun" mech, Seeker becoming completely irrelevant.
Anyway, I've shelved my RG16 and RG12. They are completely useless in this new meta. If Guardian's System Crash took down the mods, then maybe the RG16 would still be worth running. For now, I haven't stripped out the implants from my sniper pilots in the faint hope something would change, but I may do it eventually.
I've had some success with these builds so far:
Panther with GB16 - I dusted off my GB16s and found that they do quite well against the multi layer shields. I don't know if the burst damage affects the shields or not, but the GBs have a huge magazine so catching reds out in the open while I hide behind my Stasis Field (with increased height to block missiles) means that I can kill most reds - maybe not as many as I used to but it works.
Maxed Attacker with HR16 - I had recently gotten the HR16 and was really enjoying the extra oomph but now with the mods, the HR16 isn't as deadly as it used to be. Since my Panther is now back as a GB build, I've been trying the HR16 on my other maxed Attacker mechs. So far, Guardian and Paragon are ok. But, I might ditch this and go back to HR12 with KS or Stalker. I might even dust off my JR12s because the Canopy shield is easier to deal with than the multi layer shield.
RM12s - I dusted off my KS with RM12 and was surprised that this build might just become relevant again. It's a good way to strip away the shields from reds at a safe distance and then let my team deal with them up close. The only thing is, I don't know if the multi layer shields recharge. Anyone know?
Surge with EG12 - This was always a good build and since I'm shelving my Seeker, I decided to put the EG12 on my Surge instead. I can't tell if the EGs will strip a layer of shield with each blast or not, so if anyone can confirm, that would be great. What I've been doing is alternate firing...basically fire left and then mashing the big red button. If each blast strips a shield layer, then technically this tactic should strip up to 4 layers.
Eclipse DL8/16 - I think DLs are becoming relevant again. Basically, I'll start mashing the fire button and my DLs will alternate fire due to their different fire rates. I do this under cloak and at range in order to strip away the multi layers.
Aegis with NL12 - This build was surprisingly effective against the multi layer shields. I'm pretty sure I'm stripping away a layer of shield with each double shot. I haven't tried alternating fire yet so that's my next thing to try.
I think other weapons that rely on sustained damage will also be good against the multi layer shield. CB12, unfortunately, is still dead though. I tried that on Eclipse and they're still useless. But, Chainguns and Miniguns should do better.
Anyway, good luck everyone in this new world order and I hope you all stay and try some stuff out. Me, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be playing this game. I think a lot will depend on how long my clan remains active.
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Post by OU812? on Jul 22, 2024 9:33:39 GMT -5
Thanks KB!
MA/PSA:
Ruffles has released a vid on suggestions for using MODS.
He has some suggestions concerning roles for different mods and points out that multi-layered perimeter is probably a good first choice, Mayer also has a vid and makes the same suggestion and suggests the basic canopy at the lowest rank as a good second after you acquire the perimeter multi layer.
**** Mayer also points out that if we complete the derby we should be able to acquire a few perimeter multi layer(s).****
Hope this helps everyone.
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Post by OU812? on Jul 22, 2024 9:53:50 GMT -5
Ruffles suggest that an EN12 Railgun Orion build would still be effective.
Otherwise here’s my observations:
8s are the new 6s. Probably already were, but definitely are now, except the disrupter 8 maybe.
GBs are pretty effective still. Ruffles says PBs are definitely effective. The video above has some interesting gameplay there.
Missiles aren’t too shabby. Good at knocking down layers of defenses at least and hitting groups.
Definitely seeing a comeback on RMs. Bet the new artillery has some usefulness.
Second that DLs feel like they’ve improved some.
I only recently shelved my CB12s and brought them back this weekend in FFA. I think they actually improved some, but agree with KB that CGs and MGs would do better.
I think there’s a lot of situational-ness to everything. Depends on what MM throws at you and what MODs that mechs are carrying.
ATs are the king of situational effectiveness. In general Ammo is too brief, but I have moments it shines but a lot of moments where that last sliver of health can’t be taken down and someone gets the best of me. Damage takes too long in beefier mechs too. Glad I didn’t go for the AT legendary implant during the last season.
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Post by BigBear on Jul 22, 2024 10:56:30 GMT -5
Paylarium announced on its Discord chat today they were going to tweak the mods after player complaints,trying it now and the game is more playable with AI getting a mix of between one to four mods.My old hanger is back in and the matches are more like they used to be rather than unwinnable due to mods.
They said they will continue to monitor and listen to feed back,now the mods have calmed down I'm more interested in looking into the actual mods and what is better for my hanger.
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Post by reconnecting on Jul 22, 2024 15:23:05 GMT -5
Ok, I figure I'd get this thread started. Hopefully we can use this thread to post some of our experiences and ways we've adapted to the new world order. I've decided not to stay too obsessed over my two favourite builds getting nerfed into oblivion and my new "fun" mech, Seeker becoming completely irrelevant. . I'm using Eclipse with Storm Racks/NLs and Aegis with DL8s around the 2500 to 3500 sp hangar level. They do okay. Eclipse does more than okay actually. ;-) I have one hp mod on Nomad with MR8s and next mod might be for Aegis; I like the wrap around shield. Or maybe I'll go hp. Eventually I'll get one mod for each active mech, then see how that looks. I don't see legendary mods in my future unless I win them or get a Christmas gift card. :-)  Plarium after the update. Lol. |
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Post by S1E1 on Jul 23, 2024 17:44:10 GMT -5
So I am trying to figure out what weapon I should upgrade next given all this. I have SR16 and I even got a 2nd gold reload implant for A-Coins, but I don't have anything better than a purple pilot to put it on. Running both SR12 and 16s seems like the strongest way to go.
But I'm kind of thinking it would be more useful to do a EN12 weapon rather than a 16, since I run more medium mechs. I have Pod Gun 12, Nade Launcher 12 and Fragment Gun 12. Also GB12, but I think I'll just use my 16s for now. The Revolver 12 seems like it would be really strong for this new meta but it hasn't been offered on sale yet. But it makes me want to hold off on GB12 for now.
What do you guys think? I'm leaning towards either the PG12 or the SR16 but I don't know. The problem with all this stuff is with pilots and implants. Now that I can't cheaply get scrap, I'm less sure what to pick.
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 23, 2024 19:48:19 GMT -5
Scrap is still pretty easy to get, unless you're down to minimal credits. You can usually get like 300-400 a day, depending on how many blue implants are available. If you have duplicate purple or gold implants, those are worth a fair bit too.
Before you decide, see if you can find out how the SRs fare against the multi layer shields. Like if each missile or two can take down a level, that means firing one arm should bring down all layers and then the other arm can be alternate fired to hit the meat.
NLs are decently effective so far. Alternate firing them is a blast to see and hear. But, I feel NLs as with other weapons, really need a mech that has the ability to use the weapon openly, so Aegis, Panther or Eclipse and even Surge and Zephyr.
As for PG, if you have it, use it. I think they would be super effective because of their range and firing speed. You can blind fire into a bunch of red brackets at range, and their rapid fire rate means you won't be exposed for too long. Plus, if the reds are bunched, you can potentially strip shield from neighboring reds.
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Post by OU812? on Jul 23, 2024 20:03:30 GMT -5
So I am trying to figure out what weapon I should upgrade next given all this. I have SR16 and I even got a 2nd gold reload implant for A-Coins, but I don't have anything better than a purple pilot to put it on. Running both SR12 and 16s seems like the strongest way to go. But I'm kind of thinking it would be more useful to do a EN12 weapon rather than a 16, since I run more medium mechs. I have Pod Gun 12, Nade Launcher 12 and Fragment Gun 12. Also GB12, but I think I'll just use my 16s for now. The Revolver 12 seems like it would be really strong for this new meta but it hasn't been offered on sale yet. But it makes me want to hold off on GB12 for now. What do you guys think? I'm leaning towards either the PG12 or the SR16 but I don't know. The problem with all this stuff is with pilots and implants. Now that I can't cheaply get scrap, I'm less sure what to pick. That’s a tough one. Both have their merits and are currently meta. The PG12 offer you flexibility to put on a lot of mechs, and there’s a lot of 24EN Mechs out now. EN16s will hit hard for a while. Don’t know if either choice is wrong. Consider which one fits the end goal for your hanger and has the most long term value. |
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 24, 2024 8:06:53 GMT -5
I feel like PG would be the better option. I was never a fan of the alpha strike mechanic in this game. Like, what's the whole point of it?? A real alpha strike is firing all weapons at once, but the missile racks of this game fires the missiles one at a time, so that total time to empty the magazine is still the same. This is why I always felt the RPG6 was better than the MR6 way back in my early days in this game. While the SR does have shield break ability, I feel that it might be possible to slow fire the PG so that they when they explode, each explosion strips away another shield layer. Don't quote me on this of course, but even it it doesn't work, the PGs fire faster and reload faster than the SRs.
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Post by S1E1 on Jul 24, 2024 11:30:25 GMT -5
Thanks guys! That makes me feel better about the Pod Gun. The whole delayed explosion mechanism made me nervous. And I've gotten Lodestar almost maxed too. The problem with SR16 is I'll have to use a purple pilot. Although with the scrap drought, my implants will still be low enough that whenever Nikolas finally drops, switching over won't really cost me much scrap.
Anyone been using Frag Gun 12? It seems like it still might be doing alright. I still want to wait for Revolver 12, but I'm curious what folks' experience is post-rebalance.
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 24, 2024 12:00:50 GMT -5
I don't see FG12 very often. Most people will opt for EG12 instead.
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 25, 2024 9:05:26 GMT -5
Ok, so I finished the Derby and now I have 6,270 basic mods and 800 elite mods. What do I do now? I'm very tempted to throw the perimeter multi layer shield on as many mechs as I can, but those things are really only good against snipers and I've seen a huge reduction in sniper weapons since the mods came out.
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Post by OU812? on Jul 25, 2024 9:53:45 GMT -5
Ok, so I finished the Derby and now I have 6,270 basic mods and 800 elite mods. What do I do now? I'm very tempted to throw the perimeter multi layer shield on as many mechs as I can, but those things are really only good against snipers and I've seen a huge reduction in sniper weapons since the mods came out. I’ve put legendary perimeter multi layer mods on two mechs so far. I think that might be the way I go. Both Ruffles and Mayer suggest thats the best way to go with the free mod parts we’re getting. Agree the amount of sniping has decreased, but I’m concerned that it’s only temporary. I think Plarium’s doing some tinkering right now with the AI and MM to find their ‘happy place’ ($$$$$). Just my thoughts, and I could be wrong, but Plar wouldn’t have allowed the sniping meta if it wasn’t profitable. It seems to be what the spenders and willing-to-pays have enjoyed. But, I think there’s been enough complaints about the amount of damage weapons are throwing around and the lack of durability that mechs have that they realized something needed to be done. This is my perception based on my own complaints to support, forum posts read, YouTube commentary, etc. so there’s some subjectivity here. I believe the derby resources we’re getting and the fact it pays for five perimeter MLs suspiciously convenient. As you point out it limits the chance of your mech getting one-hit-killed once per match. It’s possible Plarium’s trying to negate the power creep that‘s been introduced over time. Or shift the meta without an actual nerf to the weapons themselves? My opinion of this update is starting to change. My mechs are surviving longer in matches and I’m ‘boting out’ of matches with far less frequency. Also experiencing far more of those close matches that could’ve been won/lost. I’m getting some of the vibe that made me enjoy MA from the start. |
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Post by S1E1 on Jul 25, 2024 12:52:16 GMT -5
I haven't heard a ton, but it seems like folks are mainly going with legendary Perimeter multi layer because it is so cheap. And a multi layer mod takes a full infinite damage shot per shield layer. Still I am kind of wondering about going with mechs that I know are highly likely to be facing the enemy. Panther seems like a good example. Eclipse could be too because I am usually planning out a charge and the ability means I rarely get frozen or slowed. On Surge that happens to me a lot more, and I feel like I get hit more in sides/back during a charge because the stealth is so short. IDK, I need to crunch the numbers and am holding off a bit anyway.
As Ruffles point out, epic mods are 1/3rd of the protection so avoid those. And remember there are different shield stats for different mechs, per Ruffles first test server video. Also, I have seen some arguing that slot B Canopy is the best to get next, after Slot A shields, but not sure if that is really the case.
I gotta say, it is soooo lame that these are not transferrable between mechs. If I could use these to spice up my old mechs (Paragon, Lancer, Cheetah etc) from time-to-time, I could get excited about this feature. Instead it's just another stupid money grab that locks people into having less varied hangars. And then of course, they'll nerf the mechs everyone's using - we can all see that coming.
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Post by reconnecting on Jul 25, 2024 13:55:51 GMT -5
As Ruffles point out, epic mods are 1/3rd of the protection so avoid those. And remember there are different shield stats for different mechs, per Ruffles first test server video. Also, I have seen some arguing that slot B Canopy is the best to get next, after Slot A shields, but not sure if that is really the case. I went for the purple mods as I don't want to buy mod pieces right now. When/if I get the gold pieces I will go legendary.  |
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Post by reconnecting on Jul 25, 2024 14:05:24 GMT -5
Ok, so I finished the Derby and now I have 6,270 basic mods and 800 elite mods. What do I do now? I'm very tempted to throw the perimeter multi layer shield on as many mechs as I can, but those things are really only good against snipers and I've seen a huge reduction in sniper weapons since the mods came out. My opinion of this update is starting to change. My mechs are surviving longer in matches and I’m ‘boting out’ of matches with far less frequency. Also experiencing far more of those close matches that could’ve been won/lost. I’m getting some of the vibe that made me enjoy MA from the start. I agree with Koala. I've had more close intense matches since the mods update. So maybe it's good in that way. Though Plarium is really just printing another mountain of money for themselves. |
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Post by OU812? on Jul 25, 2024 15:09:18 GMT -5
My opinion of this update is starting to change. My mechs are surviving longer in matches and I’m ‘boting out’ of matches with far less frequency. Also experiencing far more of those close matches that could’ve been won/lost. I’m getting some of the vibe that made me enjoy MA from the start. I agree with Koala. I've had more close intense matches since the mods update. So maybe it's good in that way. Though Plarium is really just printing another mountain of money for themselves. Agreed. Plarium’s gonna get paid. I’ve already run into two players with hangers outfitted with mods leveled three or four. And it seemed on all mechs. I shouldn’t be surprised, but I am. |
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Post by S1E1 on Jul 25, 2024 23:13:36 GMT -5
As Ruffles point out, epic mods are 1/3rd of the protection so avoid those. And remember there are different shield stats for different mechs, per Ruffles first test server video. Also, I have seen some arguing that slot B Canopy is the best to get next, after Slot A shields, but not sure if that is really the case. I went for the purple mods as I don't want to buy mod pieces right now. When/if I get the gold pieces I will go legendary. Well a number of players are definitely going with epics for many of their slots. But the note in database for mod stats is that a maxed epic is still lower than a level one epic. So I'd hold off if upgrading your epics as you collect more elite pieces to buy legendaries. With the full Derby winnings, folks can buy 5 Perimeter XLs, upgrade each to L2, and take one of the up to L3. But they won't have enough elite parts to mix and match, unless they leave at least one mech in their hangar without mods. Myself, I'm going to do the same thing as I did with pilots and just hold off getting anything. So far, I haven't really needed them to win matches. Just needed to alter my weapons and play a bit more carefully. I was looking at the hangars of folks on my friends list, and people are all over the place with these things. I think it makes sense to just wait and see what consensus everyone arrives at. Also get a sense of how quickly we earn parts. Definitely seeing a lot of friends who haven't played in days. The pilot rollout cost this game a lot of players. Hopefully it won't be as bad with mods. |
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Post by BigBear on Jul 26, 2024 2:23:55 GMT -5
Like most here the general advise I have seen is Perimeter multi layer for brawler bots that mix it up and Blockade for bots that sit back, outside of that I haven't really paid much attention to mods, and surprisingly when I check the hangers of live players I meet it seems most are not engaging with mods and filling slots, just seems to be to be players that live and breathe MA that are maximizing mods.
As much as Paylarium have made money from whales mass buying everything I wonder how much of a hit they have taken from players claiming refunds from app stores or just plain deleting the game.
But as Paylarium have said they are not interested in retaining players only new incoming players with no knowledge of the game and it's practices.
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Post by OU812? on Jul 26, 2024 8:49:41 GMT -5
Like most here the general advise I have seen is Perimeter multi layer for brawler bots that mix it up and Blockade for bots that sit back, outside of that I haven't really paid much attention to mods, and surprisingly when I check the hangers of live players I meet it seems most are not engaging with mods and filling slots, just seems to be to be players that live and breathe MA that are maximizing mods. As much as Paylarium have made money from whales mass buying everything I wonder how much of a hit they have taken from players claiming refunds from app stores or just plain deleting the game. But as Paylarium have said they are not interested in retaining players only new incoming players with no knowledge of the game and its practices. You’re probably correct on the hit Plarium’s taking. This morning’s message:  |
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 26, 2024 9:51:05 GMT -5
I feel like one could create an absolute monster of a mech between the extra HP mods and the shields. For example, if you with with the single layer shield plus the other two mods that just give extra HP, then that would be an absolute beast. I wonder what the numbers would be? If that's the case, then technically, the best would be a hybrid of sorts. Like get the epic mods for the HP and the epic mod for multi layer shield. This way, you are protected from snipers and still have a decent HP boost for sustained damage. I think the only mod that would ok as a basic mod is the canopy shield.
Anyway, has anyone found out if the shields, both single layer and multi layer recharge?
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 26, 2024 9:56:18 GMT -5
Like most here the general advise I have seen is Perimeter multi layer for brawler bots that mix it up and Blockade for bots that sit back, outside of that I haven't really paid much attention to mods, and surprisingly when I check the hangers of live players I meet it seems most are not engaging with mods and filling slots, just seems to be to be players that live and breathe MA that are maximizing mods. As much as Paylarium have made money from whales mass buying everything I wonder how much of a hit they have taken from players claiming refunds from app stores or just plain deleting the game. But as Paylarium have said they are not interested in retaining players only new incoming players with no knowledge of the game and its practices. You’re probably correct on the hit Plarium’s taking. This morning’s message: I've been able to put my Seeker back into play with EG12, so looks like they fixed a few things. RGs are still toast for me though because I just got a new phone and it's smaller than my old one, so even after fixing my custom controls, my body still has to adapt to the new normal. |
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Post by S1E1 on Jul 26, 2024 12:21:51 GMT -5
I feel like one could create an absolute monster of a mech between the extra HP mods and the shields. For example, if you with with the single layer shield plus the other two mods that just give extra HP, then that would be an absolute beast. I wonder what the numbers would be? If that's the case, then technically, the best would be a hybrid of sorts. Like get the epic mods for the HP and the epic mod for multi layer shield. This way, you are protected from snipers and still have a decent HP boost for sustained damage. I think the only mod that would ok as a basic mod is the canopy shield. Anyway, has anyone found out if the shields, both single layer and multi layer recharge? Per Ruffles, the shields don't recharge. Once you lose a layer, etc, it's gone. So it's best to be careful while you have them and not let them get hit needlessly, until you try to take a beacon or such. That's how it is with all the mods. You fire at an enemy until you deplete the bar. Once you do, the effect (HP, shields, or absorbing extra/back damage) is gone for good and they're a regular old mech again. |
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Post by OU812? on Aug 8, 2024 12:46:41 GMT -5
Like most here the general advise I have seen is Perimeter multi layer for brawler bots that mix it up and Blockade for bots that sit back, outside of that I haven't really paid much attention to mods, and surprisingly when I check the hangers of live players I meet it seems most are not engaging with mods and filling slots, just seems to be to be players that live and breathe MA that are maximizing mods. As much as Paylarium have made money from whales mass buying everything I wonder how much of a hit they have taken from players claiming refunds from app stores or just plain deleting the game. But as Paylarium have said they are not interested in retaining players only new incoming players with no knowledge of the game and its practices. You’re probably correct on the hit Plarium’s taking. This morning’s message: Within 1 or 2 days of posting this MM began to resemble what we’ve come to expect from it. Prior to that I actually experienced quite a few great matches that were close nail biters that I enjoyed. My opinions on MODs was changing. I’m getting fewer beatdowns now than before the release of mods, but I’m definitely getting the return to form feeling from MM. |
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Post by BigBear on Aug 9, 2024 7:55:10 GMT -5
I have had to finally remove my loved Helix Racks, I'm finding I have to launch wave after wave of rockets with little damage to targets, I have bots Stroll right up to my position after taking several direct hits with little effect.
My problem is I have none of the new mod "meta" weapons due to the high A coin costs or being behind pay walls and I currently have zero desire to spend anything on the game now. Weapons I had previously maxed out are now legacy and pretty much worthless, I spend a lot of time running and hiding frantically button bashing trying to do something worthwhile while watching AI bots wiping each other out in short order.
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Post by OU812? on Aug 9, 2024 8:10:21 GMT -5
I have had to finally remove my loved Helix Racks, I'm finding I have to launch wave after wave of rockets with little damage to targets, I have bots Stroll right up to my position after taking several direct hits with little effect. My problem is I have none of the new mod "meta" weapons due to the high A coin costs or being behind pay walls and I currently have zero desire to spend anything on the game now. Weapons I had previously maxed out are now legacy and pretty much worthless, I spend a lot of time running and hiding frantically button bashing trying to do something worthwhile while watching AI bots wiping each other out in short order. That doesn’t sound fun. I hope Plarium realizes they have a problem. Can’t have all sorts of players heading to greener pastures. I know I’m not spending to readjust my hanger. It’s a bummer about the helix racks. It’s been my favorite weapon for a long time. RIP HR8 Shadow. 🫡 |
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Post by reconnecting on Aug 9, 2024 13:29:35 GMT -5
I have had to finally remove my loved Helix Racks, I'm finding I have to launch wave after wave of rockets with little damage to targets, I have bots Stroll right up to my position after taking several direct hits with little effect. My problem is I have none of the new mod "meta" weapons due to the high A coin costs or being behind pay walls and I currently have zero desire to spend anything on the game now. Weapons I had previously maxed out are now legacy and pretty much worthless, I spend a lot of time running and hiding frantically button bashing trying to do something worthwhile while watching AI bots wiping each other out in short order. That doesn’t sound fun. I hope Plarium realizes they have a problem. Can’t have all sorts of players heading to greener pastures. I know I’m not spending to readjust my hanger. It’s a bummer about the helix racks. It’s been my favorite weapon for a long time. RIP HR8 Shadow. 🫡 Posts on Reddit indicate droves of players are asking for refunds and leaving the game. Though one post today said Scape211 said that Plarium was going to roll back the disastrous matchmaking "experiment", and change other things as well. No more facing maxed players in tournament when you have 3 and 4 star stuff only. We can hope anyway. |
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Post by BigBear on Aug 10, 2024 0:24:53 GMT -5
It seems obvious they don't play their own game with all these dumb 「bum-bum」 decisions they keep making with the gameplay, the rumoured implant reduction seems like a peace offering but it's too little too late, the player base has took a major hit and no doubt so has their revenue.
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Post by OU812? on Aug 10, 2024 11:15:39 GMT -5
That doesn’t sound fun. I hope Plarium realizes they have a problem. Can’t have all sorts of players heading to greener pastures. I know I’m not spending to readjust my hanger. It’s a bummer about the helix racks. It’s been my favorite weapon for a long time. RIP HR8 Shadow. 🫡 Posts on Reddit indicate droves of players are asking for refunds and leaving the game. Though one post today said Scape211 said that Plarium was going to roll back the disastrous matchmaking "experiment", and change other things as well. No more facing maxed players in tournament when you have 3 and 4 star stuff only. We can hope anyway. Yeah, I’m definitely not a fan of the MM experiment they claim they’re attempting. |
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Post by OU812? on Aug 10, 2024 11:33:50 GMT -5
It seems obvious they don't play their own game with all these dumb 「bum-bum」 decisions they keep making with the gameplay, the rumoured implant reduction seems like a peace offering but it's too little too late, the player base has took a major hit and no doubt so has their revenue. I wonder if they have management and accountants toying around with things too much for the monetization of the game. A lot of MA players are former War Robots players and we’re going to recognize those strategies readily. If MODs weren’t,just a monetization feature but a way to adjust the meta to fix the alpha shot dynamic Plarium rolled it out horribly with very poor communication and MM. A lot of players felt as if their whole hanger had instantly been nerfed versus AI with 3-4 MODs at level 3-5. Someone should have known better. Heck, I don’t think most players realized they could get a free PMLon five mechs with their derby winnings. That alone may have mitigated some of the knee-jerk reactions players had. |
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