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Post by munkeeee on Apr 8, 2023 11:33:37 GMT -5
I can't understand players that defend these type of bots in the first place..... Players will need to find the damage output from somewhere else now. Oh they will get that damage elsewhere, and honestly they already are... the next big thing... The cycle never ends and something worse is always coming. Being mad at older metas is pointless. By "these types of bots" I assume you mean Dash bots, Descend bots, Pantheon, Dragons, Leech and Phantom, Hawk, etc... You know what all those share in common? They were all far too strong at the time they came out, and dominated the meta... but then they got gutted or powercrept into obscurity. Some have some niche value with the right pilot and setup nowadays while others are worthless relics... Despite the outrage each got the outcome is always the same. If people simply wished for an op bot to be balanced I would get it, but the persistent desire to see a bot thrown into the scrap bin is just shortsighted and childish if you ask me. If anything shouldn't people want an old meta bot to keep some viability to go against newer things? It just looks to me like so many players are shooting themselves in the foot by supporting these moves by pix, I don't blame the community for causing the nerfs... pix always does it regardless. But I would hope people would see though it by now, again it's just disappointing. Also have you considered at all that someone may run multiples of something for other reasons than being a meta slave? I have skipped many metas simply because they were not fun. I like sexy designs, and fast and smooth movement, Seraph with Jump unit is probably the most fun I have had in this game in a while... But its not as strong as many recent offerings unless played well, Set aside it's bugs and prior mega boosted stats and it's a cool bot, a true successor to Ao Jun. Such a pity it's sharing the same fate... i see both sides and both make strong points. We all can say at some time we ran or still run meta bots. I am sure invaders and arachnids were the meta once too, but not anymore. Nerfing into obscurity is a raw deal, but if they would maybe put a little more balance into them, strong but not over the top OP from the get go, I am sure they could get alot more miles out of them. Just like when shell was THE tank for a long time. But its Achilles heal were flames. These little nuggets are invaluable. Just like someone mentioned in another thread, the current meta and cool thing is QS/Quantum Radar for all the stealth phase shift magic going on. Even LR is back in the mix which is nice. Numerous people have said it so I will too. Play your game, how you want with what you want. You like old school like some do, go for it. 6 pack I hear is fun since its not overly excessive with the meta. I run literally ALL spiders, 4 hangars full of nothing but. So in effect, sometimes we do paint ourselves into a corner. And rightly so shouldnt complain too much. BUT, pix is a business and in it to make money, so naturally there must be something that others dont have or want or just like being at the top of the class. To each their own. just play your game your way.
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Post by NexusBlade on Apr 8, 2023 12:13:36 GMT -5
Oh they will get that damage elsewhere, and honestly they already are... the next big thing... The cycle never ends and something worse is always coming. Being mad at older metas is pointless. By "these types of bots" I assume you mean Dash bots, Descend bots, Pantheon, Dragons, Leech and Phantom, Hawk, etc... You know what all those share in common? They were all far too strong at the time they came out, and dominated the meta... but then they got gutted or powercrept into obscurity. Some have some niche value with the right pilot and setup nowadays while others are worthless relics... Despite the outrage each got the outcome is always the same. If people simply wished for an op bot to be balanced I would get it, but the persistent desire to see a bot thrown into the scrap bin is just shortsighted and childish if you ask me. If anything shouldn't people want an old meta bot to keep some viability to go against newer things? It just looks to me like so many players are shooting themselves in the foot by supporting these moves by pix, I don't blame the community for causing the nerfs... pix always does it regardless. But I would hope people would see though it by now, again it's just disappointing. Also have you considered at all that someone may run multiples of something for other reasons than being a meta slave? I have skipped many metas simply because they were not fun. I like sexy designs, and fast and smooth movement, Seraph with Jump unit is probably the most fun I have had in this game in a while... But its not as strong as many recent offerings unless played well, Set aside it's bugs and prior mega boosted stats and it's a cool bot, a true successor to Ao Jun. Such a pity it's sharing the same fate... i see both sides and both make strong points. We all can say at some time we ran or still run meta bots. I am sure invaders and arachnids were the meta once too, but not anymore. Nerfing into obscurity is a raw deal, but if they would maybe put a little more balance into them, strong but not over the top OP from the get go, I am sure they could get alot more miles out of them. Just like when shell was THE tank for a long time. But its Achilles heal were flames. These little nuggets are invaluable. Just like someone mentioned in another thread, the current meta and cool thing is QS/Quantum Radar for all the stealth phase shift magic going on. Even LR is back in the mix which is nice. Numerous people have said it so I will too. Play your game, how you want with what you want. You like old school like some do, go for it. I pack I hear is fun since its not overly excessive with the meta. I run literally ALL spiders, 4 hangars full of nothing but. So in effect, sometimes we do paint ourselves into a corner. And rightly so shouldnt complain too much. BUT, pix is a business and in it to make money, so naturally there must be something that others dont have or want or just like being at the top of the class. To each their own. just play your game your way. I agree people should run what they find fun, that's what I've been doing for years honestly. And yes I used to be a whale, but I only ever spent on what I wanted to run not strictly just the best of the best, Hell I have countless Anglers atm in storage unleveled because I find them boring, I never leveled a Khepri, etc... And of course when the thing I find fun is meta then yes it's a risky upgrade, but I also disagree that it makes sense to run the game this way from a business standpoint. Pix's model is cannibalistic and not viable in the long term, it maximizes short term gain at the cost of long term success, there are many smarter ways to monetize that don't piss off the playerbase... but greed is strong in the industry, beating a dead horse I know. Like I said though I'm going to keep running my current hanger, I experiment swapping in a different build here and there but considering for the most part I consider my hanger to be complete I feel no need nor desire to change it, Till the bitter end.... whenever that happens.
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Post by BB on Apr 8, 2023 12:45:30 GMT -5
it frankly disappoints me to see so many in the community pointlessly raging at it and welcoming this scam update from pix.. Fair play but on the other hand, I can't understand players that defend these type of bots in the first place. There's always a reason why players choose to run multiples of these types of bots. They just do too many things, too well. If they at least fixed the miniscule hitbox and shooting through walls malarkey, I'd be OK with it staying as is. Well maybe the over the top shooting multiple enemies as once BS as well. Players will need to find the damage output from somewhere else now. Politely and well said, now for my back alley version: Seraph is so popular because it is EASY to operate. IMO, it is an EASY BUTTON BOT that anyone can do well with. The only real challenge is figuring out how to time your safe landing behind cover out of range from your opponents, the same “challenge” as all the other flying bots. It CAN be done exceptionally well with a little experience.
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Post by 079 on Apr 8, 2023 13:08:54 GMT -5
You know I am probably in the minority, but I genuinely do not understand the hate for Seraph. It's rather easy to kill if you aren't playing recklessly, it's mobile with decent firepower but squishy, I've even killed quite a few in flight... Its days as an unbeatable terror of the skies have long since ended, it's a fun bot to use and with a beautiful design, it frankly disappoints me to see so many in the community pointlessly raging at it and welcoming this scam update from pix... I would like to think people should know better by now. As to the killing through walls thing, sure its weapon is still bugged but as a Seraph main myself and having fought countless amounts of them, I have never had the beam break though cover for more than just a moment, I have never been killed by it or killed anyone with it, same goes for anti stealth, its rare and mostly inconsequential... if someone is claiming they got melted by it from full hp in one full burst through a wall I just don't believe that frankly... Should the bug be fixed? Absolutely, is it a huge problem? Hell no. While I respect your approach, I do take some substantial disagreements. I have lost multiple full-health stealth bots (Loki, Inquisitor, and Mercury) to Seraph’s built-in weapon, and I have on many occasions lost several thousand hit points (including having low-health bots die) to the wall bug. Whenever I am in my Loki, a Seraph is a near death sentence because of how difficult it is to avoid the weapon (500 meter range and hits everything in the bot’s field of view, provided there is at least one non-stealth target). Now sure, it would not be as bad if my bots were more leveled up, but that of course feeds into the issue of tankers and the pay to win model of the game. Outside of the built-in weapon though, there are some more general issues I take with Seraph. This is subjective of course, but I do think the design is quite silly. I’m not a huge fan of super humanoid bots, and all the little panels that come out of it during the ability make little sense physically of mechanically. It’s of course a rule of cool thing, but it comes off more silly to me, and I’m sure to many others. Also, and I know I speak for a lot with this, I am just tired of the flying super bots that started with Hawk. Brand-new super shields during flight (Hawk started the reflector, Seraph started the force shield, etc.), a 350-500 death ray, insane speeds that let them cross the entire map at will, and high firepower without the death ray. During each of these bots’ heyday, I found myself avoiding engaging with them from even longer ranges because I knew that if I annoyed them, they could fly 400 meters, kill my full health bot, and fly 400 meters back to their cover in a single, 10 second ability. It’s frankly ridiculous that these bots could just choose any enemy and that enemy was dead in the next half-minute. Sure these bots were squishy without the ability, but drones and half a brain will solve that issue. When the only people defending a robot are the people who have it, I see a problem. I’m not saying you’re a meta slave or a whale just wanting to get more value from your money, I’m saying that if the only people who enjoy a bot being in the game are the people using it, then that bot is probably problematic to the game. I hope Seraph is not completely unusable after the update because no bot deserves to be completely gutted, but I also hope it gets knocked off the top of the totem pole after being there for far too long.
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Post by NexusBlade on Apr 8, 2023 14:51:06 GMT -5
You know I am probably in the minority, but I genuinely do not understand the hate for Seraph. It's rather easy to kill if you aren't playing recklessly, it's mobile with decent firepower but squishy, I've even killed quite a few in flight... Its days as an unbeatable terror of the skies have long since ended, it's a fun bot to use and with a beautiful design, it frankly disappoints me to see so many in the community pointlessly raging at it and welcoming this scam update from pix... I would like to think people should know better by now. As to the killing through walls thing, sure its weapon is still bugged but as a Seraph main myself and having fought countless amounts of them, I have never had the beam break though cover for more than just a moment, I have never been killed by it or killed anyone with it, same goes for anti stealth, its rare and mostly inconsequential... if someone is claiming they got melted by it from full hp in one full burst through a wall I just don't believe that frankly... Should the bug be fixed? Absolutely, is it a huge problem? Hell no. While I respect your approach, I do take some substantial disagreements. I have lost multiple full-health stealth bots (Loki, Inquisitor, and Mercury) to Seraph’s built-in weapon, and I have on many occasions lost several thousand hit points (including having low-health bots die) to the wall bug. Whenever I am in my Loki, a Seraph is a near death sentence because of how difficult it is to avoid the weapon (500 meter range and hits everything in the bot’s field of view, provided there is at least one non-stealth target). Now sure, it would not be as bad if my bots were more leveled up, but that of course feeds into the issue of tankers and the pay to win model of the game. Outside of the built-in weapon though, there are some more general issues I take with Seraph. This is subjective of course, but I do think the design is quite silly. I’m not a huge fan of super humanoid bots, and all the little panels that come out of it during the ability make little sense physically of mechanically. It’s of course a rule of cool thing, but it comes off more silly to me, and I’m sure to many others. Also, and I know I speak for a lot with this, I am just tired of the flying super bots that started with Hawk. Brand-new super shields during flight (Hawk started the reflector, Seraph started the force shield, etc.), a 350-500 death ray, insane speeds that let them cross the entire map at will, and high firepower without the death ray. During each of these bots’ heyday, I found myself avoiding engaging with them from even longer ranges because I knew that if I annoyed them, they could fly 400 meters, kill my full health bot, and fly 400 meters back to their cover in a single, 10 second ability. It’s frankly ridiculous that these bots could just choose any enemy and that enemy was dead in the next half-minute. Sure these bots were squishy without the ability, but drones and half a brain will solve that issue. When the only people defending a robot are the people who have it, I see a problem. I’m not saying you’re a meta slave or a whale just wanting to get more value from your money, I’m saying that if the only people who enjoy a bot being in the game are the people using it, then that bot is probably problematic to the game. I hope Seraph is not completely unusable after the update because no bot deserves to be completely gutted, but I also hope it gets knocked off the top of the totem pole after being there for far too long. On the ability bug, Again I don't disagree it should be fixed... However I would still call into question just how often it really presents itself. Perhaps I'm just lucky and I haven't had the issue be to such a degree, I'll take your word for it though. As to its nature as just another op kill everything bot, I stand by my original argument where thats nothing new, all new meta bots are an op kill everything bot, I think thats a BAD thing yes, Would I prefer that trend ended? Of course, but at the same time we can't just hold indefinite grudges against bots for being too powerful when they've already been nerfed from their most powerful state, and frankly having fought many of them and not just with my own Seraphs... I generally find its pretty easy to kill the players running them in most cases. The better users are more tricky but if you focus them there are quite a few weaknesses you can exploit, Perhaps we may just have to agree to disagree. As for its look? Obviously this is subjective but I'm honestly the opposite, I love the fantasy look of it with the outstretched glowing wings and a taller more slender stature it has, It's not realistic but I hardly think realism has applied to this game for a very long time and I'm ok with that personally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by 079 on Apr 8, 2023 19:56:22 GMT -5
On the ability bug, Again I don't disagree it should be fixed... However I would still call into question just how often it really presents itself. Perhaps I'm just lucky and I haven't had the issue be to such a degree, I'll take your word for it though. As to its nature as just another op kill everything bot, I stand by my original argument where thats nothing new, all new meta bots are an op kill everything bot, I think thats a BAD thing yes, Would I prefer that trend ended? Of course, but at the same time we can't just hold indefinite grudges against bots for being too powerful when they've already been nerfed from their most powerful state, and frankly having fought many of them and not just with my own Seraphs... I generally find it’s pretty easy to kill the players running them in most cases. The better users are more tricky but if you focus them there are quite a few weaknesses you can exploit, Perhaps we may just have to agree to disagree. As for its look? Obviously this is subjective but I'm honestly the opposite, I love the fantasy look of it with the outstretched glowing wings and a taller more slender stature it has, It's not realistic but I hardly think realism has applied to this game for a very long time and I'm ok with that personally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The bug is not the worst thing ever, and something like the parallel universe bug is way worse. I’m not loosing a bot a battle to it, but it happens often enough to be in my stream of consciousness. If my memory serves me right, you like Free for All, which I think is better for avoiding the bug because there is less hanging behind cover. I’m glad people are having a better experience than me with this. As for the hate for OP bots, think about it this way: we hate the concept, not the bot itself. We have an eternal grudge against Pixonic’s business model of selling power, and whatever bot Pixonic places on top of the meta is of course a part of that. But history has shown that after that bot is dethroned by the next new thing, the player base softens up a lot to it. Bots like Ares, Ao Jun, Hawk, and even Fafnir that were hated during their time are now cult bots or fan favorites since they were brought into line with the other bots. I’m sure the same will happen to Seraph. Flying bots tend to get it particularly hard though because Pixonic really likes to go overboard with them. In addition to the flying ability granting crazy speed and the ability to bypass map terrain (so one can fly in a straight line to the opponent), Pixonic also likes to give flying bots crazy shields (often new shields invented just for them, like reflectors for Hawk or force fields for Seraph) and give them crazy built-in weapons. Bots like Ravana, Revenant, and Angler were crazy in their prime, but were overshadowed by Ao Jun, Fafnir, and Seraph because these flying bots were essentially all-purpose, kitchen sink bots. We don’t hate flying bots in of themselves, we hate what Pixonic inevitably does with them. As for the design, this is honestly worth its own thread, but I’ll just quickly voice my overall issue. War Robots has had a bit of an art style problem where the game started grounded in military technology, went increasingly fantastical following the dash bots, and with Fafnir, Seraph, and especially Nether, has basically become an anime. Having all of these bots of very different designs all together makes for an incoherent art style, meaning people inevitably pick sides and are left disappointed by some releases. The popular pick is of course the grounded, militaristic designs of old since many of us started the game with them and liked their distinctiveness, but the more sci-fi and fanatical designs do have appeal. Like you said, it’s all personal preference.
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Post by Wolfblood7 on Apr 9, 2023 3:14:18 GMT -5
Wait Seraph was nerfed? I am very late to the party but can someone please clarify the actual figures? Of course it was when I am halfway through building 2 Cryptic Redeemers for mine too... However, I'm not sad to see it go in the slightest. It's ability is going to be 6.8 Seconds in duration according to testing done by Adazahi You know I am probably in the minority, but I genuinely do not understand the hate for Seraph. It's rather easy to kill if you aren't playing recklessly, it's mobile with decent firepower but squishy, I've even killed quite a few in flight... Its days as an unbeatable terror of the skies have long since ended, it's a fun bot to use and with a beautiful design, it frankly disappoints me to see so many in the community pointlessly raging at it and welcoming this scam update from pix... I would like to think people should know better by now. As to the killing through walls thing, sure its weapon is still bugged but as a Seraph main myself and having fought countless amounts of them, I have never had the beam break though cover for more than just a moment, I have never been killed by it or killed anyone with it, same goes for anti stealth, its rare and mostly inconsequential... if someone is claiming they got melted by it from full hp in one full burst through a wall I just don't believe that frankly... Should the bug be fixed? Absolutely, is it a huge problem? Hell no. As for me I run 3 in my main hanger, Victoria will hopefully keep them barely useable... without Victoria the bot is completely worthless after this update. Its a bot I have greatly enjoyed getting good at, comboing jump unit with it for a sexy high speed high flying death machine... With the Death of Orochi my prior favorite Seraph became my new passion project, And nothing will make me stop using them, If I cant play the way I want to then I will finally cut all my losses which are massive and delete this game. I knew this was likely going to happen, Seraph may not be op but pix nerfs based on usage not stats, and a lot of people have Seraphs. The cycle continues yet again... And to everyone who for some weird reason thinks this will make their games any easier... Do you not know how this works by now? Seraph is obviously getting replaced... and then everyone can get mad at that... repeat ad nauseam. And in time people will ask for a buff to Seraph just like with all its predecessors, just as has happened with everything update after update year after year. Seraph was just the worst for me. The hitbox "bug" with the Unknown one, and the fact that the regular one had a tiny hitbox, made it almost invincible to any weapons, unless an entire team fired at it for the whole game. As for the shoot through walls bug, I have only ever been killed by it once, and it isn't really a huge problem, but when it triggers the deft survivor when your ability is ready anyway, it is a pain. Stealth is the worst for me, as anything in stealth, including Imugi can be very weakened by Seraphs ability without the Seraph even focusing its guns on you. That is their main reason for the nerf I think. Suddenly we are going into a new stealth meta, with the new Crisis bot, that literally has permanent stealth, the Imugi, and the Beak drone, and suddenly the best bot at dealing with stealth is nerfed. Edit: You run Victoria!? I thought that pilot became useless after the speed nerf. I still run Trixie on mine.
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Post by NexusBlade on Apr 10, 2023 0:49:11 GMT -5
It's ability is going to be 6.8 Seconds in duration according to testing done by Adazahi You know I am probably in the minority, but I genuinely do not understand the hate for Seraph. It's rather easy to kill if you aren't playing recklessly, it's mobile with decent firepower but squishy, I've even killed quite a few in flight... Its days as an unbeatable terror of the skies have long since ended, it's a fun bot to use and with a beautiful design, it frankly disappoints me to see so many in the community pointlessly raging at it and welcoming this scam update from pix... I would like to think people should know better by now. As to the killing through walls thing, sure its weapon is still bugged but as a Seraph main myself and having fought countless amounts of them, I have never had the beam break though cover for more than just a moment, I have never been killed by it or killed anyone with it, same goes for anti stealth, its rare and mostly inconsequential... if someone is claiming they got melted by it from full hp in one full burst through a wall I just don't believe that frankly... Should the bug be fixed? Absolutely, is it a huge problem? Hell no. As for me I run 3 in my main hanger, Victoria will hopefully keep them barely useable... without Victoria the bot is completely worthless after this update. Its a bot I have greatly enjoyed getting good at, comboing jump unit with it for a sexy high speed high flying death machine... With the Death of Orochi my prior favorite Seraph became my new passion project, And nothing will make me stop using them, If I cant play the way I want to then I will finally cut all my losses which are massive and delete this game. I knew this was likely going to happen, Seraph may not be op but pix nerfs based on usage not stats, and a lot of people have Seraphs. The cycle continues yet again... And to everyone who for some weird reason thinks this will make their games any easier... Do you not know how this works by now? Seraph is obviously getting replaced... and then everyone can get mad at that... repeat ad nauseam. And in time people will ask for a buff to Seraph just like with all its predecessors, just as has happened with everything update after update year after year. Seraph was just the worst for me. The hitbox "bug" with the Unknown one, and the fact that the regular one had a tiny hitbox, made it almost invincible to any weapons, unless an entire team fired at it for the whole game. As for the shoot through walls bug, I have only ever been killed by it once, and it isn't really a huge problem, but when it triggers the deft survivor when your ability is ready anyway, it is a pain. Stealth is the worst for me, as anything in stealth, including Imugi can be very weakened by Seraphs ability without the Seraph even focusing its guns on you. That is their main reason for the nerf I think. Suddenly we are going into a new stealth meta, with the new Crisis bot, that literally has permanent stealth, the Imugi, and the Beak drone, and suddenly the best bot at dealing with stealth is nerfed. Edit: You run Victoria!? I thought that pilot became useless after the speed nerf. I still run Trixie on mine. I'm not sure if they adjusted the hitbox silently at some point, but my Seraphs certainly stopped being able to dodge shots to the same degree at some point, I ran them at their full power state all the way until now and have made a note of how much weaker they are at this point. I don't have testing to back that up but it does feel like it is the case. And as for Victoria, Absolutely I run her. Seraphs speed and Victorias speed buff were never nerfed to my knowledge only the Engine Expert multiplier which was "bugged", aka deliberately inflated beyond its listed stats, but still gives a notable boost and is vital for my high speed playstyle. And for each Victoria I have: T4 Road Hog, T4 Spy, T4 Engine expert, T4 Mechanic, T4 Dodger "jump unit goes boing lol", T4 Destroyer, and Foolhardy Quartermaster. The added duration and speed increase of Victoria is a massive buff and not once have I considered using any other pilot. After the nerf the duration is: 6.8 seconds stock, 8.5 seconds with Victoria. That is to say I can fly longer and I squeeze out every bit of speed I can get to achieve more while in ability. I run 2x IA and 1 NA on two of them currently in my main hanger, the IA certainly help with getting even more extra speed, And of course jump unit gives me more height and maneuverability. I take pride in running the fastest Seraphs on the battlefield
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Post by RedRaider on Apr 10, 2023 1:48:42 GMT -5
While I respect your approach, I do take some substantial disagreements. I have lost multiple full-health stealth bots (Loki, Inquisitor, and Mercury) to Seraph’s built-in weapon, and I have on many occasions lost several thousand hit points (including having low-health bots die) to the wall bug. Whenever I am in my Loki, a Seraph is a near death sentence because of how difficult it is to avoid the weapon (500 meter range and hits everything in the bot’s field of view, provided there is at least one non-stealth target). Now sure, it would not be as bad if my bots were more leveled up, but that of course feeds into the issue of tankers and the pay to win model of the game. Outside of the built-in weapon though, there are some more general issues I take with Seraph. This is subjective of course, but I do think the design is quite silly. I’m not a huge fan of super humanoid bots, and all the little panels that come out of it during the ability make little sense physically of mechanically. It’s of course a rule of cool thing, but it comes off more silly to me, and I’m sure to many others. Also, and I know I speak for a lot with this, I am just tired of the flying super bots that started with Hawk. Brand-new super shields during flight (Hawk started the reflector, Seraph started the force shield, etc.), a 350-500 death ray, insane speeds that let them cross the entire map at will, and high firepower without the death ray. During each of these bots’ heyday, I found myself avoiding engaging with them from even longer ranges because I knew that if I annoyed them, they could fly 400 meters, kill my full health bot, and fly 400 meters back to their cover in a single, 10 second ability. It’s frankly ridiculous that these bots could just choose any enemy and that enemy was dead in the next half-minute. Sure these bots were squishy without the ability, but drones and half a brain will solve that issue. When the only people defending a robot are the people who have it, I see a problem. I’m not saying you’re a meta slave or a whale just wanting to get more value from your money, I’m saying that if the only people who enjoy a bot being in the game are the people using it, then that bot is probably problematic to the game. I hope Seraph is not completely unusable after the update because no bot deserves to be completely gutted, but I also hope it gets knocked off the top of the totem pole after being there for far too long. On the ability bug, Again I don't disagree it should be fixed... However I would still call into question just how often it really presents itself. Perhaps I'm just lucky and I haven't had the issue be to such a degree, I'll take your word for it though. As to its nature as just another op kill everything bot, I stand by my original argument where thats nothing new, all new meta bots are an op kill everything bot, I think thats a BAD thing yes, Would I prefer that trend ended? Of course, but at the same time we can't just hold indefinite grudges against bots for being too powerful when they've already been nerfed from their most powerful state, and frankly having fought many of them and not just with my own Seraphs... I generally find its pretty easy to kill the players running them in most cases. The better users are more tricky but if you focus them there are quite a few weaknesses you can exploit, Perhaps we may just have to agree to disagree. As for its look? Obviously this is subjective but I'm honestly the opposite, I love the fantasy look of it with the outstretched glowing wings and a taller more slender stature it has, It's not realistic but I hardly think realism has applied to this game for a very long time and I'm ok with that personally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Of course owners are the majority who defend it. They have the time and possibly money into making it powerful. I hate the nerf! I like my Seraphs. Am I a “no skill” player that has to depend upon a “no skill”( ya’lls term, not mine) bot for the win? No! I don’t think so… I run Mars, Imuji, Skyros, Orochi, Typhon, Hover, Ravin, Strider, Spectre, even GI Patton!( to name a few. I usually get 1-5 million Damage. In ffa I am 1or 2(most time being #2 gains more gold). So I don’t think I am a “no skill”. So I hate the nerf! However it won’t stop me running them. See ya in the (iOS) air!
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Post by >^\}VULTURE{/^< on Apr 10, 2023 8:11:26 GMT -5
I made the argument that flight time should be based upon armor & armament a long-long time ago when Ao Jun had the heaviest armor & armament but flew longer than lighter versions.
Flight mechanics should be standardized. As well as speed mechanics for bot's movement as compared to arms & armor. We all know this will never happen else Pixonic could never justify the broken items it sells, then nerfs in a constant cycle.
Items should be buffed in certain areas to fit in afterwards...that way nobody is ever ripped off and nerfs would be rare. We all know a guy/gal who is going to buy 3-5 of said broken item before the nerf cycle begins (that is why Pixonic will never stop this habbit).
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Post by davortrogon on Apr 10, 2023 9:41:10 GMT -5
Robots seem to have an initial selling point phase and then a final phase, and occasionally a third rebuffed phase.
Here's the question I want answered I guess: How balanced are the old robots with each other?
At least per tier, how do they play against each other? Is there still a hidden old meta among and outside the best and current ones? Of course some robots outlast others; the Fenrir has stayed close and in the Meta winner's circle for years, and some robot's time burned bright and died fast, like the Ares (correct me if I'm wrong, I was a young player).
At the end of the day, some bots are going to be better than others in their final stages. How is Mars going to age compared to the Leech, Loki, or Seraph? Who's going to be better, The Nemesis or the Hover? The Ao Jun or the Skyros? The Lancelot or the Inquisitor, or the Khepri?
Is it divided by era? I know an Ares can easily kill every older robot then itself to an extent, and a lot of things ahead of it wipe it out. Think of the original sets. The Pantheon, the Hawk Scorpion and Jaeger, Dash bots, Ravana Behemoth and Cerberus, the Shapeshifters, and so on. Are they separated by time? Not entirely. I think I want a tier list; a true tier list of all the robots based on their combat effectiveness on the average of speed, damage, health, and a rating of ability power.
Once or if at all there is a tier list made to these specifications we need to look at it and think about where the current meta will sit on that list 5 years after its power trip.
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Post by 079 on Apr 10, 2023 12:23:19 GMT -5
Here's the question I want answered I guess: How balanced are the old robots with each other? At least per tier, how do they play against each other? Is there still a hidden old meta among and outside the best and current ones? Of course some robots outlast others; the Fenrir has stayed close and in the Meta winner's circle for years, and some robot's time burned bright and died fast, like the Ares (correct me if I'm wrong, I was a young player). At the end of the day, some bots are going to be better than others in their final stages. How is Mars going to age compared to the Leech, Loki, or Seraph? Who's going to be better, The Nemesis or the Hover? The Ao Jun or the Skyros? The Lancelot or the Inquisitor, or the Khepri? Is it divided by era? I know an Ares can easily kill every older robot then itself to an extent, and a lot of things ahead of it wipe it out. Think of the original sets. The Pantheon, the Hawk Scorpion and Jaeger, Dash bots, Ravana Behemoth and Cerberus, the Shapeshifters, and so on. Are they separated by time? Not entirely. I personally see about three layers to the current meta of the game. These layers are not based on tiers or other classifications, just based on how viable equipment actually is in the game. The first layer is the simplest, which is the main meta that Champion League abides by. Right now, this layer has bots like Seraph, Mars, Kephri, Angler, Skyros, and Nether, and weapons like the radiation guns, Puncher, Spear/Fainter, and the new 800 meter lasers. The second layer is what I see as the happy medium, the layer that has bots that are powerful without being overbearing, and are affordable. This includes bots like Ares, Hawk, Invader, Fenrir, Hellburner, and Mender, and weapons like flamethrowers, flame rockets, Froodles, all corrosion guns, and railguns. The third layer includes all of the forgotten equipment, either due to them receiving crippling nerfs or being power-crept out of viability. Most pre-Ravana equipment falls into this layer, as well as short-lived things like Cerberus. This approach is not perfect of course. There are power discrepancies within each layer, like how I consider Jaeger and Mender to both be layer two bots even though the latter is undoubtedly more powerful, and consider Bolt and Cerberus to be layer three bots even though the latter is much more powerful. There also are some equipment pieces that walk the line between two layers, such as Behemoth and Prisma being between layers one and two, and Leech and the tasers being between layers two and three. Pixonic seems to have been bringing more prominent equipment that I would formerly consider layer three (Raven, Dragoon family, and Hellburner) into layer two through targeted buffs, which is great. However, there is a growing gap between the general power levels and affordability of each tier, which is of course problematic. But yeah, that is how I see the meta!
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Post by davortrogon on Apr 10, 2023 13:14:59 GMT -5
That's a pretty good chart
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Post by Poopface on Apr 10, 2023 13:15:47 GMT -5
I personally see about three layers to the current meta of the game. These layers are not based on tiers or other classifications, just based on how viable equipment actually is in the game. The first layer is the simplest, which is the main meta that Champion League abides by. Right now, this layer has bots like Seraph, Mars, Kephri, Angler, Skyros, and Nether, and weapons like the radiation guns, Puncher, Spear/Fainter, and the new 800 meter lasers. The second layer is what I see as the happy medium, the layer that has bots that are powerful without being overbearing, and are affordable. This includes bots like Ares, Hawk, Invader, Fenrir, Hellburner, and Mender, and weapons like flamethrowers, flame rockets, Froodles, all corrosion guns, and railguns. The third layer includes all of the forgotten equipment, either due to them receiving crippling nerfs or being power-crept out of viability. Most pre-Ravana equipment falls into this layer, as well as short-lived things like Cerberus. And artillery is layer 0.5 because it's the best.
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Post by Oliver Kloesov on Apr 10, 2023 13:26:48 GMT -5
I personally see about three layers to the current meta of the game. These layers are not based on tiers or other classifications, just based on how viable equipment actually is in the game. The first layer is the simplest, which is the main meta that Champion League abides by. Right now, this layer has bots like Seraph, Mars, Kephri, Angler, Skyros, and Nether, and weapons like the radiation guns, Puncher, Spear/Fainter, and the new 800 meter lasers. The second layer is what I see as the happy medium, the layer that has bots that are powerful without being overbearing, and are affordable. This includes bots like Ares, Hawk, Invader, Fenrir, Hellburner, and Mender, and weapons like flamethrowers, flame rockets, Froodles, all corrosion guns, and railguns. The third layer includes all of the forgotten equipment, either due to them receiving crippling nerfs or being power-crept out of viability. Most pre-Ravana equipment falls into this layer, as well as short-lived things like Cerberus. And artillery is layer 0.5 because it's the best.
Yeah, he forgot that he forgot artillery, a god's chosen weapon class. "...and from on-high he smoteth the reds mightily!"
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Post by Poopface on Apr 10, 2023 13:34:48 GMT -5
And artillery is layer 0.5 because it's the best.
Yeah, he forgot that he forgot artillery, a god's chosen weapon class. "...and from on-high he smoteth the reds mightily!" "And like a bolt from the the heavens he smoteth with no mercy"
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Post by munkeeee on Apr 10, 2023 13:35:24 GMT -5
well said 079. I like how you went with the most items that are in rotation more than others, ie JUST bots and weps. Mods and drones and pilots are more of a user preference thing really. But very accurate list and write up
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Post by >^\}VULTURE{/^< on Apr 10, 2023 13:48:28 GMT -5
well said 079 . I like how you went with the most items that are in rotation more than others, ie JUST bots and weps. Mods and drones and pilots are more of a user preference thing really. But very accurate list and write up You preaching the truth brother! I know people when never pulled their Fafnirs after the nerf and I could name a lot of other things as well, BB for example. The whole point of pilots and drones were to make even the same base setups DIFFER, not make this item, that item, this skill or that skill a MUST have. I have always told people to build to their play style but have had to retract that statement ever since broken items have found their way into the game.
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Post by satanonwheels on Apr 10, 2023 17:08:41 GMT -5
My first experience with the meta/nerf cycle was the Inquisitor with Orkans. Scary if you got caught in the open, yet nerfed to uselessness. As far as Seraphs design, look no further than the Red Angel, Star Trek : Discovery season one.
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Post by TerrorStorm on Apr 10, 2023 22:52:37 GMT -5
Here's the question I want answered I guess: How balanced are the old robots with each other? At least per tier, how do they play against each other? Is there still a hidden old meta among and outside the best and current ones? Of course some robots outlast others; the Fenrir has stayed close and in the Meta winner's circle for years, and some robot's time burned bright and died fast, like the Ares (correct me if I'm wrong, I was a young player). At the end of the day, some bots are going to be better than others in their final stages. How is Mars going to age compared to the Leech, Loki, or Seraph? Who's going to be better, The Nemesis or the Hover? The Ao Jun or the Skyros? The Lancelot or the Inquisitor, or the Khepri? Is it divided by era? I know an Ares can easily kill every older robot then itself to an extent, and a lot of things ahead of it wipe it out. Think of the original sets. The Pantheon, the Hawk Scorpion and Jaeger, Dash bots, Ravana Behemoth and Cerberus, the Shapeshifters, and so on. Are they separated by time? Not entirely. I personally see about three layers to the current meta of the game. These layers are not based on tiers or other classifications, just based on how viable equipment actually is in the game. The first layer is the simplest, which is the main meta that Champion League abides by. Right now, this layer has bots like Seraph, Mars, Kephri, Angler, Skyros, and Nether, and weapons like the radiation guns, Puncher, Spear/Fainter, and the new 800 meter lasers. The second layer is what I see as the happy medium, the layer that has bots that are powerful without being overbearing, and are affordable. This includes bots like Ares, Hawk, Invader, Fenrir, Hellburner, and Mender, and weapons like flamethrowers, flame rockets, Froodles, all corrosion guns, and railguns. The third layer includes all of the forgotten equipment, either due to them receiving crippling nerfs or being power-crept out of viability. Most pre-Ravana equipment falls into this layer, as well as short-lived things like Cerberus. This approach is not perfect of course. There are power discrepancies within each layer, like how I consider Jaeger and Mender to both be layer two bots even though the latter is undoubtedly more powerful, and consider Bolt and Cerberus to be layer three bots even though the latter is much more powerful. There also are some equipment pieces that walk the line between two layers, such as Behemoth and Prisma being between layers one and two, and Leech and the tasers being between layers two and three. Pixonic seems to have been bringing more prominent equipment that I would formerly consider layer three (Raven, Dragoon family, and Hellburner) into layer two through targeted buffs, which is great. However, there is a growing gap between the general power levels and affordability of each tier, which is of course problematic. But yeah, that is how I see the meta! The points raised by 079 and DAVORTROGON are really good. Feels like PIX made a halfhearted attempt or tripped into addressing this with the Color Coded Tiers (Gold, Purple, Blue etc.) but either never followed through logically or were just clueless. One of the issues is it is not adjusted meaning once you are a "New" bot and are considered part of the META and get the GOLD ranking you stay there. To the points above from DAVOR... Nightingale and Angler are both considered GOLD. Clearly Angler is in a different Class than Nightingale. This could clearly be fixed in a reasonable manner where a bot remains in the Top Tier for some period of time until nerfed or passed by with the newest Meta. Point is the Tier is and should "officially" be fluid. Again, with some exceptions (Fenrir and a few others) the Top Tier Bots are pretty clear to us all. Same with weapons. (Going down a bit of a rabbit hole here...) If you can agree on Tiers for Bots and weapons and can assign some kind of value to them (ex. Angler at MK3 is 100 and Griffin MK2 is a 10) you can then start to align Tiers of bots/ weapons to matchmaking. The sum of your hanger would match against the sum of someone elses hanager. I guess this is what PIX used to do before the Great Rebalance where matchmaking was strength of hanger based. Not sure where I landed with this but I think the Tiers like Leagues started out as a way to manage who gets matched to who. Both now seems to have devolved into the current Chaos.
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Post by davortrogon on Apr 11, 2023 9:42:08 GMT -5
Maybe if they had more tiers; tier 4 had more of the "happy medium" and a tier 5 was reserved for the absolute meta.
But at the same time, this whole game is tier 1 (different tier system).
I'm talking now about the tiers of creativity. The limits you need to break.
A tier 0 game has 1 goal, and once you reach the goal, there is no point except for something like achievements.
Most campaign only games are like this, unless they are creative.
A tier 1 game has 1 goal, and once you reach the top, there is no more point except to stay at the top.
Tier 1 games, like War Robots, have the people with the most equipment at the top. Whether you're playing for fun, for glory, or for top place, at the end of the day, equipment will get you there. You're supposed to fight, and only fight. Every glitch found is quickly (supposed to be) patched, and there is nothing else to do but kill; only 1 skill set required.
A tier 2 game has a purpose after reaching the top, and usually it's nowhere near as hard as something like War Robots. Tier 2 games are balanced well enough where people can have fun with everything and it is mostly skill.
A Tier 2 game is like Scenexe.io (Look it up, it's a .io game; simple games you google and then play and they are multiplayer.) In Scenexe.io, although the goal is usually to fight, because there is chat, and because of the nature of the game, people team up. Enemies stop to talk about stuff, and peace is negotiated, broken, and people betray each other. The element of humanity is present. People work together to open a portal to get to dimensions with more loot and less lag bots (the game is currently plagued with them), so if you talk good enough, if your a good enough person, then teams don't even matter. Your team is who you convince to join your side, even if they can kill you and you them.
In a Tier 3 game, getting the max stuff is hardly an issue. After a little work, you get what you need, or if the inventory is more advanced, you can get most stuff quickly but some stuff is special. The game is mostly balanced and you do whatever you want in anything the game has to offer or you can make up.
A tier 3 game is like the Crew 2 (look it up if you need to). This is an open world racing game. It had events like races, but it's a huge map and you can interact with others outside of events. There are many things to be good at; many professions to master. You can be the best at a few races, first in the world, or have the highest icon (level), which takes years for most, and out of millions of people only about 120 have icon 9999. You can battle each other in free drive by just hitting each other with your cars, you can be like me and discover many glitches and use them to get people world records, you can play tag and hide and seek, and as long as you have an open mind the list goes on.
A tier 4 game is extremely creative. Mostly what happens is up to you. Many building games are here.
A good example of a Tier 4 game is any game where you can do many things and be good at many different things as well. You don;t need to master everything because there are too many things to master. Something like Roblox actually falls into this category.
A Tier 5 game is completely up to you. You can even change the physics to your desire, and you can do almost anything possible.
In my search, the only game I consider Tier 5 is Minecraft.
There is almost no limit to what you can do. Do whatever you want, and make what you care about important. You play to have fun. Sure, you could beat the game, but you don't need to.
I actually have an idea about my dream of making War Robots a tier 2 or 3 game. I called it "War Robots: Earth". It's actually in this forum already but I stopped talking about it for a while, mainly because there wasn't much more to say. But there is.
In my game, the relationships you maintain with the people you come across determines your fate, not just the level of your robot.
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firestation
Destrier
Posts: 23
Karma: 46
Platform: iOS
Server Region: North America
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Post by firestation on Oct 30, 2023 20:28:29 GMT -5
So, Pixonic did this to you again, you think??? Pixonic made you waste money, and then robbed you? When will you understand, that Pixonic didn't do anything to you. You did this to yourself. To be nerfed is a scam.
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Oct 30, 2023 21:13:59 GMT -5
What is it with Halloween and necroposting?
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Post by Typhon Johnny on Oct 31, 2023 9:37:13 GMT -5
@ Cdr. Crimmins.... honestly i think its because starting a new thread is so annoying. I keep forgetting how to do it and its not all that obvious imo....
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Post by gus169 on Oct 31, 2023 9:55:33 GMT -5
@ Cdr. Crimmins.... honestly i think its because starting a new thread is so annoying. I keep forgetting how to do it and its not all that obvious imo.... you're right, it's not entirely clear. you just have to go into the section you want to post in - general, videos, rants - and you'll find the 'create' link. it doesn't show up if you're browsing 'recent'
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airfix2
Destrier
Posts: 100
Karma: 176
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Post by airfix2 on Oct 31, 2023 15:24:58 GMT -5
well now seraph is really screwed. it used to have a decent amount of hp at lvl 7, but now my lvl 7 hawk and fafnir have more health than seraph. also, the forcefield nerf really affected it too.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Oct 31, 2023 16:09:53 GMT -5
@ Cdr. Crimmins.... honestly i think its because starting a new thread is so annoying. I keep forgetting how to do it and its not all that obvious imo.... Hitting the "Create Thread" button isn't obvious?
You have a pretty low threshold for annoying.
Necroposting, not THAT'S 「fluffernutter」ing annoying....
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Post by Typhon Johnny on Oct 31, 2023 17:35:28 GMT -5
Im technically challenged..... ok? Lol
Gus had it.....its cuz im always in "recent" .... its about the 3rd or 4th time ive forgotten how to post.
And honestly once youve done it... seems simple ...but what is obvious to you is not always the same for others.
Its like at work when you ask the new kid to do a simple task..... check in a few min later and you wonder whether you both speak the same language..... haha
Just spent 35 min trying to figure out how to post and get this aquamarine view off. So sad...lol
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Post by dinnerplain on Nov 1, 2023 15:19:20 GMT -5
I think part of what upset people with Seraph where the unannounced features combined with bugs.
Seraph shooting through walls pissed off a lot of people to the point where you could say that using it and knowing it would do that was cheating. Then there was the effect where it would sometimes pickup stealth robots and other times not. This has still not been resolved and the behaviour makes it seem like another sanctioned cheat.
Because of this, Seraph gets more attention and vitriol that it really deserves.
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