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Post by Poopface on Feb 15, 2023 13:11:37 GMT -5
I'm seeing a trend. War Robots Youtubers putting out videos calling out Pixonic's business practices. Been a bit since I've seen this.
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Post by Poopface on Feb 15, 2023 13:29:00 GMT -5
Also notable -- and I should have mentioned it above -- is that both adriannnnnn and Manni mentioned that they're working on separate videos detailing the larger issues in their minds. |
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Post by 079 on Feb 15, 2023 14:33:15 GMT -5
Motherships got a bit of pushback where many YouTubers gave their extended thoughts on them, but them being this overt with opposing an update has not been seen since probably the Dash bots honestly. For the first time in a while, everyone is on the same page. F2P are mad at the increased power gap, light spenders are mad their carefully-made investments are getting taken away with minimal compensation, and competitive, heavy spenders are mad that this brings no real change to the meta other than allowing for more easy power scaling by Pixonic. Unlike motherships and the like where the novelty of a new feature and cool designs/lore generated some interest, there is nothing to a gleamed here for anyone. Pixonic’s gonna get it with this one.
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Post by Sgt. Beacon on Feb 15, 2023 15:44:15 GMT -5
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Post by BB on Feb 15, 2023 17:02:38 GMT -5
This particular screw job is such an in your face kick in the nuts that it’s pretty much impossible for even the inner circle to spin it or smooth it over.
I start imagining the THOUSANDS that these elite meta heads have spent on drones and chips over what? 3 years now? What a grand swindle it is.
Dark days. Wouldn’t be surprised if the new owners (same owners, different name?) were brought in to drive War Robots into the ground, but swindle another XXXX amount from the players before the big finale….and on to Frontiers for their next shell game.
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Post by Poopface on Feb 15, 2023 18:32:48 GMT -5
Wouldn’t be surprised if the new owners (same owners, different name?) were brought in to drive War Robots into the ground, but swindle another XXXX amount from the players before the big finale….and on to Frontiers for their next shell game. Considering all the deals being pushed these days, I think you may be onto something. Get the $$ while they can before turning off the lights. |
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Post by Method Games[YT] on Feb 15, 2023 19:34:11 GMT -5
They try to disguise this and slot it in with the removal of the purple shields because "that's what we wanted".
Spenders had all the micro chips they needed, most others have had enough time to acquire decent, competitive chips so Pixonic needed to make drones like pilots to keep an ongoing cash flow coming in from purchase and upgrade of drones.
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Post by TerrorStorm on Feb 15, 2023 21:01:55 GMT -5
Pretty bad and clear thievery by PIX.
That said is this newest "theft" any different from a player spending their Silver, Gold and Time upgrading a Bot/ Weapons only to have it nerfed into oblivion (Fafnir/ Freeze Lasers) to the point of being useless in favor of the latest Meta creation?
PIX has a long history of shafting us all.
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Post by davortrogon on Feb 16, 2023 11:29:40 GMT -5
Has anyone ever watched the movie World war Z? If you haven't, it's fine. I only want to mention 1 thing. there is this scene about halfway through the movie where someone is telling the main character about the 10th man idea.
The philosophy of the 10th man idea is to have 10 people debate on something. 9 would come to a conclusion, and the last person would be the 10th man. Their job is to find everything wrong, wicked, and all holes in their idea. If they couldn't find anything, then the idea or law would pass.
I'm going to take this opportunity to try to find every single reason Pixonic could be right, or at least have a morally right reason in their minds. This will take some time to write, so I will cut this off here for now.
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Post by Poopface on Feb 16, 2023 11:41:36 GMT -5
Has anyone ever watched the movie World war Z? If you haven't, it's fine. I only want to mention 1 thing. there is this scene about halfway through the movie where someone is telling the main character about the 10th man idea. The philosophy of the 10th man idea is to have 10 people debate on something. 9 would come to a conclusion, and the last person would be the 10th man. Their job is to find everything wrong, wicked, and all holes in their idea. If they couldn't find anything, then the idea or law would pass. I'm going to take this opportunity to try to find every single reason Pixonic could be right, or at least have a morally right reason in their minds. This will take some time to write, so I will cut this off here for now. Extremely cool idea. I look forward to seeing what you come up with! |
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Post by titando on Feb 16, 2023 11:50:54 GMT -5
I don't think War Robots is going away. It's too big of a cash cow. They are testing the waters to see just how far they can go. If there is enough push back from the community, they will likely scale back the thievery just a bit. We'll see.
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Post by davortrogon on Feb 16, 2023 11:51:21 GMT -5
I think I can break apart their thought process from a business standpoint pretty easily: They need to resell.
Most people already made the good points that they are hiding this fact behind the update we want, and this time there is no cover. Whether they realize it or not, they are screwing us over.
I guess this is the counterpoint: They need money.
If they don't do stuff like this, and don't squeeze money out of everyone, then they go broke, and the lights go out. Of course, they may try to do stuff for us; a good update, a necessary rebalance when they realize they were too rough, so all in all we can say they might try to care, but their bad at it and very slow to respond.
Of course, this whole drone effort, whether a terrible money choice or not, was an attempt at an answer to our problems. We can all be mutually upset with the mistake that this is. We can ask/force them to correct it, and they might or might not. They have a bad moral compass. They are too slow to answer.
I think that this is a really bad decision, done by people who are greedy and a little paranoid that they need to keep vacuuming money this fast. This is just a moment in time where they have no more gifts to hide behind, because people are too angry not to see through it.
There's really no justification I can find for them. They are the same people they have always been, but the cards weren't in their favor because we saw them slip the ace into their pocket.
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Post by davortrogon on Feb 16, 2023 11:52:19 GMT -5
They will scale the thievery for a moment or 2, like this update, but if we keep complaining this loud they might tune us out.
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Post by 079 on Feb 16, 2023 12:42:39 GMT -5
Pretty bad and clear thievery by PIX. That said is this newest "theft" any different from a player spending their Silver, Gold and Time upgrading a Bot/ Weapons only to have it nerfed into oblivion (Fafnir/ Freeze Lasers) to the point of being useless in favor of the latest Meta creation? PIX has a long history of shafting us all. The difference between that and this though is that when the bots are nerfed, they are still at whatever level you had them at and can continue to be used without difficulty. Here, they are not only weakening drones, but also resetting them to level 1 with minimal compensation. I don’t mean to defend Pixonic’s previous actions, but this is on its own level. |
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Post by Poopface on Feb 16, 2023 13:00:10 GMT -5
Manni has another video about things getting worse.
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Post by munkeeee on Feb 16, 2023 14:33:53 GMT -5
Manni has another video about things getting worse.
Yea, these vids they’ve been putting out, I will just say this. I know and see my expiration date with this game. I am not gonna go postal or anything, but one day soon in the NOW foreseeable future, I am gonna ride off into my sunset. |
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Post by Poopface on Feb 16, 2023 16:59:35 GMT -5
Yea, these vids they’ve been putting out, I will just say this. I know and see my expiration date with this game. I am not gonna go postal or anything, but one day soon in the NOW foreseeable future, I am gonna ride off into my sunset. I certainly can't see that things look very promising, that's for sure. Pix seems hellbent on doubling down on greed. |
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Post by TerrorStorm on Feb 16, 2023 21:38:24 GMT -5
Pretty bad and clear thievery by PIX. That said is this newest "theft" any different from a player spending their Silver, Gold and Time upgrading a Bot/ Weapons only to have it nerfed into oblivion (Fafnir/ Freeze Lasers) to the point of being useless in favor of the latest Meta creation? PIX has a long history of shafting us all. The difference between that and this though is that when the bots are nerfed, they are still at whatever level you had them at and can continue to be used without difficulty. Here, they are not only weakening drones, but also resetting them to level 1 with minimal compensation. I don’t mean to defend Pixonic’s previous actions, but this is on its own level. Agree with your point. This latest thievery is not 1:1 with a bot or weapon nerf. I think my point is that there have been shades of theft and shafting the player base for a long, long time. Having played since April 2015 (First Class Award) I've seen it all. I think if you were to plot the trend it would show a pretty consistent line going upward with some peaks and valleys in between. The big "rebalance" a couple years ago was certainly a peak as is this. I 1,000% agree with the drones needing a rebalance (preferably just flush them down the toilet) but what they are doing is straight up theft and another peak in this BAD trend line. |
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Post by TerrorStorm on Feb 16, 2023 22:01:06 GMT -5
Just finished listening to MANNI's video. Good he and some of the others are speaking up.
Feels like with these "Upgrade Tokens", which I assume will be for sale in some manner, will further the disparity between the "haves" and "have nots" and coupled with the ongoing Matchmaking Issues will lead to more uneven games. Me and my NON-Meta hanger have come to terms with this and I continue my downward plummet in the Leagues. Yesterday, with several dismal beatdowns I officially dropped from Masters 3 to Expert. It has been a long, long time since I have been here. Do I care??? Not at all. Has game play changed??? Not at all. Still the same Meta Expert Players along with the S Clans. I'm certain I will never see a T4 Drone in my hanger.
I'm with Munkeeee in that frequency of playing is going way down and my peaks and valleys in interest in the game are getting more in the Valley stage. War Robots is still a marginal distraction a few times a week but that sunset is for sure getting closer.
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Post by 0megaman on Feb 16, 2023 23:34:36 GMT -5
I certainly can't see that things look very promising, that's for sure. Pix seems hellbent on doubling down on greed. Doubled down, tripled, quadrupled at this point. I just watched Manni's vid on the drone rework. IMHO, its outright theft. They should be ashamed of themselves, but shame is not in their emotional inventory. 0M |
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Post by Poopface on Feb 19, 2023 15:19:05 GMT -5
Predator dumps on how the drone rework is being implemented. New today.
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Post by gus169 on Feb 20, 2023 23:51:20 GMT -5
These Tubers may have started out with Pixo's backing, 'creator' style, but they need 'views' to stay relevant, not more freebies from Pix. If any of them tried to defend this move, or ignore it, they'd lose their audience, pronto. Kudos to them for recognising this, and acting on it, but there's some degree of self-interest at play.
That said, there is NO chance Pixonic haven't noticed this, and with a growing consensus there, they have just turned one of their main promotional devices into a harsh critique of the devs. They're not robots, or demons, or morons. They're people, dabbling in backyard psychology, and they will be wincing at this.
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Post by 079 on Feb 21, 2023 0:49:55 GMT -5
These Tubers may have started out with Pixo's backing, 'creator' style, but they need 'views' to stay relevant, not more freebies from Pix. If any of them tried to defend this move, or ignore it, they'd lose their audience, pronto. Kudos to them for recognising this, and acting on it, but there's some degree of self-interest at play. I really don’t agree with this. Yeah, it does line up with the self-interest narrative, but knowing these YouTubers, I just don’t see it fitting them. As I had said before, there literally is no good side to this update other than the basic idea of simplifying drones, so it seriously would take a lot of effort to make a positive video about this. Also, all of these YouTubers have been critical of Pixonic in the past, so this is no new side of them. It’s just the scale and magnitude that is new. Sure, they want the game to stay health so their channels will grow, but that doesn’t mean they don’t care about the game for other reasons. Unless they have been faking their reactions (which are so good in the case of Manni and sometimes Predator that people are turned off by them) for years, it is pretty obvious they are passionate about the game. Sorry for the somewhat overboard post, but this is just a pet peeve of mine. I see it in a similar way I see the conspiracy that Pixonic’s offers and YouTubers’ content are connected: it’s needless contrarianism that doesn’t mean anything in the end. |
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Post by gus169 on Feb 21, 2023 9:13:04 GMT -5
These Tubers may have started out with Pixo's backing, 'creator' style, but they need 'views' to stay relevant, not more freebies from Pix. If any of them tried to defend this move, or ignore it, they'd lose their audience, pronto. Kudos to them for recognising this, and acting on it, but there's some degree of self-interest at play. I really don’t agree with this. Yeah, it does line up with the self-interest narrative, but knowing these YouTubers, I just don’t see it fitting them. As I had said before, there literally is no good side to this update other than the basic idea of simplifying drones, so it seriously would take a lot of effort to make a positive video about this. Also, all of these YouTubers have been critical of Pixonic in the past, so this is no new side of them. It’s just the scale and magnitude that is new. Sure, they want the game to stay health so their channels will grow, but that doesn’t mean they don’t care about the game for other reasons. Unless they have been faking their reactions (which are so good in the case of Manni and sometimes Predator that people are turned off by them) for years, it is pretty obvious they are passionate about the game. Sorry for the somewhat overboard post, but this is just a pet peeve of mine. I see it in a similar way I see the conspiracy that Pixonic’s offers and YouTubers’ content are connected: it’s needless contrarianism that doesn’t mean anything in the end. Yeah, I get it mate. That was just me throwing in 2 cents for the devil. I don't doubt their love of the game, but their relationship with Pixonic is a lot more complicated than mine. |
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Post by kylerogers on Feb 22, 2023 5:02:51 GMT -5
I'm seeing a trend. War Robots Youtubers putting out videos calling out Pixonic's business practices. Been a bit since I've seen this. They are all hypocrites. They are Pixonic's salesmen trying to sit on two chairs simultaneously. These recent videos are just a show. They want to present themselves as good, when they are just as bad as Pixonic. They don't even realize that it is their silence up to now led to this state of the game. This silence was masked by words like they don't want to be negative about the game, and so on, when in reality they were afraid to loose their battle rec accounts. This is really disgusting and revolting... but unfortunately a lot of people buy into their 「dookie」... |
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Post by kylerogers on Feb 22, 2023 6:20:07 GMT -5
I just watched Manni's vid on the drone rework. IMHO, its outright theft. They should be ashamed of themselves, but shame is not in their emotional inventory. Pixonic doesn't have any emotional inventory. It is a business project, there are not any emotions involved, pure business. Expecting shame from them is like expecting shame from a piece of furniture.
However, payers are being too emotional about the drone rework. If they only could distance themselves from the game for a moment, they would see how irrational their complaints are. Imagine a person who willingly gives money to a known thief and then complains that the thief won't return it back.
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Post by munkeeee on Feb 22, 2023 9:57:15 GMT -5
I'm seeing a trend. War Robots Youtubers putting out videos calling out Pixonic's business practices. Been a bit since I've seen this. They are all hypocrites. They are Pixonic's salesmen trying to sit on two chairs simultaneously. These recent videos are just a show. They want to present themselves as good, when they are just as bad as Pixonic. They don't even realize that it is their silence up to now led to this state of the game. This silence was masked by words like they don't want to be negative about the game, and so on, when in reality they were afraid to loose their battle rec accounts. This is really disgusting and revolting... but unfortunately a lot of people buy into their 「dookie」... I can relate to this, just as I have said since I joined, a lot of them do pander to both sides, but it’s on us how much stock we put into them. Personally I don’t watch most nor follow their channels, save for a few fellow members here. They may hear the pulse of the masses a bit more than Pix does, but it’s not gonna change them or their content FOR the masses. |
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Post by 0megaman on Feb 22, 2023 15:01:51 GMT -5
Pixonic doesn't have any emotional inventory. It is a business project, there are not any emotions involved, pure business. Expecting shame from them is like expecting shame from a piece of furniture. We'll agree to disagree. Businesses are run by people, people determine moral/ethical immoral/unethical conduct for the business model. That business is a direct reflection of those people. Its like being robbed at gun point... The gun isnt the root cause of the issue, the guy holding it certainly is. 0M |
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Post by kylerogers on Feb 23, 2023 1:56:08 GMT -5
We'll agree to disagree. Businesses are run by people, people determine moral/ethical immoral/unethical conduct for the business model. That business is a direct reflection of those people. Well, if one is to be fully consistent, then if one admits that Pixonic is stealing from players, then they need to admit that all of the capitalistic system at its core is based on theft one way or another.
Capitalists can not accumulate wealth without exploiting other people or without appropriating natural resources that should belong to the nation, and not to some individual. Most people who live in first tier countries do not even realize that the wealth they have is based on exploitation of the second and third tier countries. Explotation is in fact theft. All of the business works like this: someone owns the capital (a shareholder) and he gets passive return for his ownership. Ownership is not based on some kind of merit system: mostly wealth is inherited, all one needs to do is to draw the lucky birth ticket. The rising inequality worldwide is possible because capitalistic system can not distribute the wealth effectively. The wealth gets appropriated, 'stolen' by rich clans.
The reason you see Pixonic's theft is because Pixonic 'steals' from you and it is obvious to you personally. However, when Apple exploits child labour in some third tier country to produce it's products, you don't give a 「dookie」. There is in fact no essential difference between Pixonic and other "ethical" business models.
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Post by 0megaman on Feb 23, 2023 2:02:52 GMT -5
We'll agree to disagree. Businesses are run by people, people determine moral/ethical immoral/unethical conduct for the business model. That business is a direct reflection of those people. Well, if one is to be fully consistent, then if one admits that Pixonic is stealing from players, then they need to admit that all of the capitalistic system at its core is based on theft one way or another. Capitalists can not accumulate wealth without exploiting other people or without appropriating natural resources that should belong to the nation, and not to some individual. Most people who live in first tier countries do not even realize that the wealth they have is based on exploitation of the second and third tier countries. Explotation is in fact theft. All of the business works like this: someone owns the capital (a shareholder) and he gets passive return for his ownership. Ownership is not based on some kind of merit system: mostly wealth is inherited, all one needs to do is to draw the lucky birth ticket. The rising inequality worldwide is possible because capitalistic system can not distribute the wealth effectively. The wealth gets appropriated, 'stolen' by rich clans.
The reason you see Pixonic's theft is because Pixonic 'steals' from you and it is obvious to you personally. However, when Apple exploits child labour in some third tier country to produce it's products, you don't give a 「dookie」. There is in fact no essential difference between Pixonic and other "ethical" business models.
Incorrect premise and correlation resulting in a red herring. Please take more (or maybe less) medication, and try again. 0M |
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