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Post by Koalabear on Jun 24, 2021 7:32:51 GMT -5
Hi scape211, I saw your comment in the clan chat and thought I would try bringing it here for some other perspectives and discussion. RMs were a major PITA early in the game, and I thought I'd moved passed it, and then when the update came that gave RM warnings, I thought for sure this would be a major nerf to the rocket mortar series. But, recently, I'm actually seeing an increase of RM12 usage from human players. I don't know if it's because these folks have upgraded everything else and are just now playing around with RM12 (that's my plan actually), or they have some actual use for it. I do know that RM12 paired with RM8 is a waste, but paired with JR6 on the right platform can be very useful (Brickhouse). I have a crap ton of RM12 blueprints because I never saw the need to upgrade it. But, now that I've got my core stuff all to R6, I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, I should try to clone my RM12 and run it on one of my Panthers. Why Panther instead of Guardian? Panther's faster footspeed will help it get away from CQC mechs that make it past the blue meat shield and the Stasis Field offers protection further out than the Guardian's System Crash and also offers protection from RMs and JRs. I'm just not sure how well the RM12 will perform against human players. I know that to use them optimally, you should NOT try for those ultra far shots. You'll just waste ammo. Instead, you should try for shots just above the minimum range of 46m and maybe out to 100m at the most. Not only does the rockets get to target faster, this also gives reds less time to get out of the blast zone. I also feel that the RM12 will perform better in most CPC maps and are only good on some TDM maps, due to the size and type of game play. I've also been thinking of shelving my SB12s because I so rarely play them in any mode. Between my two Thanos Guardians and my CB12 Panther, I almost never have to field my SB12 Panther. Not only that, the SB12s, while fun, just do not kill fast enough and these days, most clashes are over before you can blink. Anyway, enough meandering from me. Chime in with your thoughts and plans and experiences both with and against the RMs with human players. |
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Post by reconnecting on Jun 24, 2021 12:16:13 GMT -5
RM12s might be one good reason I upgrade Shadow, with Java. Also might clone KS sooner.
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Post by dukeofadvil on Jun 24, 2021 13:24:50 GMT -5
 I'll try the RM12 again...I threw him on one of my panthers but I may swap in the Guardian and slap the ordinance on it. I know i need to level it up, and I have blueprints, but I'm currently beefing up my twin Jav5 KillShots. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jun 24, 2021 13:53:17 GMT -5
SNIP...I'll try the RM12 again...I threw him on one of my panthers but I may swap in the Guardian and slap the ordinance on it. I know i need to level it up, and I have blueprints, but I'm currently beefing up my twin Jav5 KillShots. Took me a second... but I think I get you... do you mean you have Jav 4 and Jav 6 on both KSes? |
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Post by dukeofadvil on Jun 24, 2021 13:58:49 GMT -5
SNIP...I'll try the RM12 again...I threw him on one of my panthers but I may swap in the Guardian and slap the ordinance on it. I know i need to level it up, and I have blueprints, but I'm currently beefing up my twin Jav5 KillShots. Took me a second... but I think I get you... do you mean you have Jav 4 and Jav 6 on both KSes? Yes. I'm a creature of habit, so i have them decked out with one of each. Waiting on blueprints for the 6, and using up prints i have for the 4. For some reason evey time i set them up differently i make stupid mistakes and try and shoot around walls with the wrong ordinance... example shooting MR8's into the wall expecting them to go over. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jun 24, 2021 14:28:38 GMT -5
Took me a second... but I think I get you... do you mean you have Jav 4 and Jav 6 on both KSes? Yes. I'm a creature of habit, so i have them decked out with one of each. Waiting on blueprints for the 6, and using up prints i have for the 4. For some reason evey time i set them up differently i make stupid mistakes and try and shoot around walls with the wrong ordinance... example shooting MR8's into the wall expecting them to go over. I'm the exact opposite, I was an early adopter of MR 8 Killy... it is THE platform for MRs for me. I don't really like KS except for this build. A few others work, but this is the build I get in the zone with and just enjoy. Now, for the second KS, when I run it and am not testing some build or another, it's one of 3 builds: Carb 8 + 10, JR 6 + RM 12, or 2x JR 6.
Now that I finally have the RG, I may switch out one of my MR 8s for a 6, and put the 8, with the RG, on a Panther... but otherwise I am pretty locked into the MR Killy.
But yeah, I will straight up forget I am not running them sometimes and hit the button, expecting bursty goodness, and only a shot of Carbs comes out... and I die.  |
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Post by Koalabear on Jun 24, 2021 15:40:33 GMT -5
I've seen some KS's with JR6 and RM12 played magnificently too. Too bad I don't really have the patience to run this build.
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Post by scape211 on Jul 1, 2021 8:28:29 GMT -5
Hi scape211 , I saw your comment in the clan chat and thought I would try bringing it here for some other perspectives and discussion. Good discussion to have. I just cut the rest of your comment to save space. TBH, RMs are everywhere late game. Namely from players and it can be really problematic on certain maps. I can tell you RMs is a huge part of where I struggle. Most teams that beat me when I do custom matches are using RMs. HEAT has one guy (Omega) whose very good with them and on open air maps its like all he runs and its definitely tricky to play around. I also had some random matches against the PRG clan the other day where they got one win in on us. It was the 2 archs map and we just randomly picked 5v5. Most of us didnt have RMs and they packed a ton of them so we were screwed. Beat them properly in the other games we played. My point is that unless they change something about the weapon, its very meta end game when you are doing full pvp and clan battles. Its one of the things I hate and am trying to work on effective ways to counter. I honestly have ways in which I counter it, but it normally takes me out of my regular playstyle more than any other weapon and usually puts me behind the curve or exposes me to other kinds of weapon fire. It can often times be the cause of losses in pvp for me if the enemy team knows how to use it well. People who use the jav6/RM12 combo arent as bad imo. Its mainly those who use dual RM12s on panther or guardian. Jav6/RM12 builds are annoying to fight against but typically more manageable unless multiple enemies run them at the same time. So any tips you all use are appreciated. |
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Post by reconnecting on Jul 1, 2021 11:02:19 GMT -5
Hi scape211 , I saw your comment in the clan chat and thought I would try bringing it here for some other perspectives and discussion. Good discussion to have. I just cut the rest of your comment to save space. TBH, RMs are everywhere late game. Namely from players and it can be really problematic on certain maps. I can tell you RMs is a huge part of where I struggle. Most teams that beat me when I do custom matches are using RMs. HEAT has one guy (Omega) whose very good with them and on open air maps its like all he runs and its definitely tricky to play around. I also had some random matches against the PRG clan the other day where they got one win in on us. It was the 2 archs map and we just randomly picked 5v5. Most of us didnt have RMs and they packed a ton of them so we were screwed. Beat them properly in the other games we played. My point is that unless they change something about the weapon, its very meta end game when you are doing full pvp and clan battles. Its one of the things I hate and am trying to work on effective ways to counter. I honestly have ways in which I counter it, but it normally takes me out of my regular playstyle more than any other weapon and usually puts me behind the curve or exposes me to other kinds of weapon fire. It can often times be the cause of losses in pvp for me if the enemy team knows how to use it well. People who use the jav6/RM12 combo arent as bad imo. Its mainly those who use dual RM12s on panther or guardian. Jav6/RM12 builds are annoying to fight against but typically more manageable unless multiple enemies run them at the same time. So any tips you all use are appreciated. I stay close to buildings, seems to make it harder for RM 12 to hit. I use that red warning circle and try to move out if range or line of sight. |
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Post by Deadeye on Jul 1, 2021 12:33:52 GMT -5
Hi scape211 , I saw your comment in the clan chat and thought I would try bringing it here for some other perspectives and discussion. Good discussion to have. I just cut the rest of your comment to save space. TBH, RMs are everywhere late game. Namely from players and it can be really problematic on certain maps. I can tell you RMs is a huge part of where I struggle. Most teams that beat me when I do custom matches are using RMs. HEAT has one guy (Omega) whose very good with them and on open air maps its like all he runs and its definitely tricky to play around. I also had some random matches against the PRG clan the other day where they got one win in on us. It was the 2 archs map and we just randomly picked 5v5. Most of us didnt have RMs and they packed a ton of them so we were screwed. Beat them properly in the other games we played. My point is that unless they change something about the weapon, its very meta end game when you are doing full pvp and clan battles. Its one of the things I hate and am trying to work on effective ways to counter. I honestly have ways in which I counter it, but it normally takes me out of my regular playstyle more than any other weapon and usually puts me behind the curve or exposes me to other kinds of weapon fire. It can often times be the cause of losses in pvp for me if the enemy team knows how to use it well. People who use the jav6/RM12 combo arent as bad imo. Its mainly those who use dual RM12s on panther or guardian. Jav6/RM12 builds are annoying to fight against but typically more manageable unless multiple enemies run them at the same time. So any tips you all use are appreciated. I just cloned my RM12 and have them on my 2nd Guardian. I'm learning a lot about how people that use them need to think and how they operate. I know you guys in NM have a treasure trove of info already regarding these, but I have a strategy I think might work in clan v clan battles. This is hard to do, but I'd love to see it tested. I assume that the enemy is not ALL RM12 users. They have 2-3 of them and some scouts/defenders to flesh out the team. This would be how I would run a match if I were in charge. Anyway, the key is similar to a good CPC rush, exept you have to take the least common route. It centers on the bum rush towards the RM12 guys ASAP. You want to get where they are and you want to get there from multiple different routes. I would recommend a group of both KS and/or Shadows. You have to have some guys that can bypass the defenders and get in and disrupt the RM guys. Ideally, you'd have one RM guy of your own in the back that could cripple (early rush) or finish off (late rush) any left. Once the RM enemies are taken out, I strongly doubt they'll have many replacements. That said, whoever has the RM guys that last the longest is probably going to win. Just my thoughts. This does assume you know or suspect they're going to do this from the start. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jul 1, 2021 14:04:04 GMT -5
Good discussion to have. I just cut the rest of your comment to save space. TBH, RMs are everywhere late game. Namely from players and it can be really problematic on certain maps. I can tell you RMs is a huge part of where I struggle. Most teams that beat me when I do custom matches are using RMs. HEAT has one guy (Omega) whose very good with them and on open air maps its like all he runs and its definitely tricky to play around. I also had some random matches against the PRG clan the other day where they got one win in on us. It was the 2 archs map and we just randomly picked 5v5. Most of us didnt have RMs and they packed a ton of them so we were screwed. Beat them properly in the other games we played. My point is that unless they change something about the weapon, its very meta end game when you are doing full pvp and clan battles. Its one of the things I hate and am trying to work on effective ways to counter. I honestly have ways in which I counter it, but it normally takes me out of my regular playstyle more than any other weapon and usually puts me behind the curve or exposes me to other kinds of weapon fire. It can often times be the cause of losses in pvp for me if the enemy team knows how to use it well. People who use the jav6/RM12 combo arent as bad imo. Its mainly those who use dual RM12s on panther or guardian. Jav6/RM12 builds are annoying to fight against but typically more manageable unless multiple enemies run them at the same time. So any tips you all use are appreciated. I stay close to buildings, seems to make it harder for RM 12 to hit. I use that red warning circle and try to move out if range or line of sight. Yes, that's def the basics... the problem arises on open maps or in CPC with Beacons that don't have cover. No buildings, no cover, nothing but big ol' bullseyes on your head. I feel like, without actually speaking for him, that Scape is looking for more of an overall anti-RM strategy rather than tactics. It's hard to avoid them if you are pinned down by other Reds precisely so that their RM guys in the back can just lob death at you from safety. You try to move, you die by the Reds that have you cornered, you stay there, you die.
Squads have to have a plan for dealing with them from the start, in order to minimize the impact that they will have. If you plan for something, even just a basic plan, it allows for action. Many times just doing SOMETHING can lead to a path forward being made clear, and if you train to act as soon as you see Mortars on the field, it's at least possible to react in such a way to make them react to you.
TBH though, I'm mostly speaking out of my 「bum-bum」... I am def not a squad tactic guru and am just stating ideas that apply to anything that requires swift, decisive action, to deal with.
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Post by Redfiend on Jul 2, 2021 8:58:25 GMT -5
Juggernauts.
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 2, 2021 9:36:53 GMT -5
My usual counter is my JR6 Shadow, but it's normally only good for one suicide run due to all the other reds out there. I haven't had many CPC games with it though, and if the reds spawn another RM12 mech, I'm screwed. Redsteal is right, the Jugg is a decent counter due to it's fast recharging shield and high HP. But, it's not fast enough IMO to outwit multiple RM12 mechs or wading through multiple meat shields or scouts to get to the RM12 mech. Team tactics is a must, and fore knowledge would definitely be helpful too. I'm likely gonna clone my RM12 next week - just waiting for next week's Dev Derby - so soon, I'll be able to report back on its effectiveness directly, as well as what tactics work against me. I feel like the buff of shortening it's minimum range to 46m has made this weapon extremely powerful. I've even played with the idea of R6'ing my Paragon, slapping my RM12s on it and shelving my Shadow for a bit just to have a full 24EN hangar...but....nah, too expensive and I'm trying to save as much resources as possible for when I see something I really want. |
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Post by Redfiend on Jul 2, 2021 10:15:04 GMT -5
My usual counter is my JR6 Shadow, but it's normally only good for one suicide run due to all the other reds out there. I haven't had many CPC games with it though, and if the reds spawn another RM12 mech, I'm screwed. Redsteal is right, the Jugg is a decent counter due to it's fast recharging shield and high HP. But, it's not fast enough IMO to outwit multiple RM12 mechs or wading through multiple meat shields or scouts to get to the RM12 mech. Team tactics is a must, and fore knowledge would definitely be helpful too. I'm likely gonna clone my RM12 next week - just waiting for next week's Dev Derby - so soon, I'll be able to report back on its effectiveness directly, as well as what tactics work against me. I feel like the buff of shortening it's minimum range to 46m has made this weapon extremely powerful. I've even played with the idea of R6'ing my Paragon, slapping my RM12s on it and shelving my Shadow for a bit just to have a full 24EN hangar...but....nah, too expensive and I'm trying to save as much resources as possible for when I see something I really want. The only thing that beats team play is team play. In full clan v clan games, everyone's loadouts should have a place in team composition and match flow. Currently, that's limited to everyone loading up on as much burst damage as possible on Panthers, KS, Guardian and sometimes Zephyr, and competing with allies more than enemies, as one would against AI. That being said, it's exactly why actual coordination is even more punishing for people playing against a truly coordinated team. Mortars aren't the problem. People being so accustomed to DB-ing down AI for the majority of their play experience is. It's probably one of the downsides of the game being actually balanced. Coordination and team play have a much greater impact on the flow of a match. Unlike in other games, there's no way to pay for a power imbalance that let's one person steam roll an entire coordinated team. The game has it's rock paper scissors: Attacker > Scout > Support > Tank > Attacker But it's not that simple, the abilities of individual mechs and the weapons they can carry give them advantages against the roles they're vulnerable to. Attacker > Scout, Scouts can abuse their movement advantage and punish flanks. Then there's javelin/mortar keep-away. But if an attacker catches them square, they'll still get punched out. Scouts > Support, but support mechs can still punch a Scout pilot by abusing their ability mechanics. Scouts can get around support abilities fairly easily. My progress on the "Deal Damage to Zephyr" Lancer achievement is coming along nicely, by the way, and the only Zephyrs I run into at this juncture are piloted by people ð Support > Tanks, But only if they make the most of their abilities. Zephyr can shut them down, but chances are it is getting got if it doesn't secure the Kill. MD should always be stapled to something else's 「bum-bum」, so it's support fire and ally assist counteract the meatiness of the tanks. Cheetahs mines hurt, A LOT. But trying to damage race a full health tank is the dumbest thing any mech can try. Tanks > Attackers, but attackers have abilities that can facilitate them getting away or slowing down the tank enough for other mechs to assist in taking them down. Pushing through a Panther fence to eat the panther with Juggernaut will never not be satisfying. When it comes to weapons, same deal. If a mortar user can't be reached, then oh-well. They can only fire every 15 seconds. Sand down the rest of the team. If more than 2 people are using mortars on the enemy team, run interference with fatties against the people guarding them, send in the Scouts and Attackers to wax them. Much like with the AI changes in tournament, if a team's loadout isn't fit for the map and actual enemy team composition, the chance of performing well is abysmal. Also, who the hell is Redsteal? |
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Post by reconnecting on Jul 2, 2021 16:58:33 GMT -5
I've thought about cloning my MR 12 because getting X number of kills and taking No Damage is Hard. I finished that event fortunately without getting that one part done. I did try, alot. Don't think I want to commit resources to MR 12 though when I have my new Zephyr at rank 4.
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Post by Redfiend on Jul 2, 2021 17:37:44 GMT -5
I've thought about cloning my MR 12 because getting X number of kills and taking No Damage is Hard. I finished that event fortunately without getting that one part done. I did try, alot. Don't think I want to commit resources to MR 12 though when I have my new Zephyr at rank 4. Shields don't count as damage taken. LA or MR juggy gets that task finished for me every time. |
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 6, 2021 7:52:19 GMT -5
Today's TDM map is great for practicing with the Arty build. Things I've learned/confirmed so far:
- mechs right beside the map barrier are hard to hit with a full salvo, which means that hiding beside tall cover should provide some protection from RMs
- mechs hiding under the arches can still be hit and killed as long as I wasn't aiming at them but rather one of their buds that was out in the open
- do not go after mechs with a sliver of health no matter how tempting they are as chances are, they will be dead by the time the rockets get there
- from about 46 - 70'something meters, it takes the rockets about a second or a bit longer to hit
- the closer the target, the tighter the hit grouping and more damage but more chance to miss if the mech is fast - I did hit a KS once that dashed just as I press fire, so I'm thinking that might have been lag
- don't try to hit anything beyond 100m as chance to hit is very low even though the rockets spread out more
- I'm getting a lot of kills from behind
The RMs behave like Noricoms that have Zenit firepower. I love that as it brings back memories of playing a Nori Jesse. I haven't had the chance to try an uppercut yet, but I'm betting it'll be easier to pull off thanks to the vertical targeting ability.
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Post by Redfiend on Jul 6, 2021 10:30:52 GMT -5
I haven't had the chance to try an uppercut yet, but I'm betting it'll be easier to pull off thanks to the vertical targeting ability. Doesn't work. Mortars fire up at a fixed angle, regardless of where your reticle is. The "bump" hitbox doesn't let you get close enough to an enemy for them to be in the missile arc. They won't actually fire unless you're targeting something at 45+M |
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 6, 2021 10:52:25 GMT -5
I haven't had the chance to try an uppercut yet, but I'm betting it'll be easier to pull off thanks to the vertical targeting ability. Doesn't work. Mortars fire up at a fixed angle, regardless of where your reticle is. The "bump" hitbox doesn't let you get close enough to an enemy for them to be in the missile arc. They won't actually fire unless you're targeting something at 45+M Oh yeah! lol, totally forgot about that! I guess if there were a 46m vertical gap somehow! I'm sure that ledge off the cliff on the ice stage would be a great firing point...but can get boring pretty quickly. |
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Post by Deadeye on Jul 7, 2021 11:14:11 GMT -5
So, I'm enjoying using these, but the enjoyment is sporadic. My highest kill game is around 17 with just using RM12s and sometimes I don't get very lucky at all with 6-7 kills, but on average, I think 10-11 kills in a 5v5 style game is reasonable. I'm tearing through the RM feats for the Guardian though! It's like taking candy from robotic babies!
My most strategic use of this build came this morning. I got picked up for a quick squad game of CPC and we randomly got put in with another squad. We had 3 RL players and they had 3 or 4. I used my lone KS to get an early lead on beacons (with quality teammates as well). We successfully took and held the center for long enough to get a good sized bacon lead. With that, I guessed that they would start to hold back (this wasn't against NM guys or I would have known better. lol). I pulled out the RM12 build and sure enough, they were hanging back trying to snipe/bomb their way to victory. This left me free to poop all over their parade. It was much easier to hit slower relatively stationary-minded targets consistently than the typical AI that's constantly on the move. I don't think this would have worked as well if their team had 2-3 guys pushing with the rest hanging back providing air/sniper support, but it was definitly fun!
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Post by scape211 on Jul 7, 2021 12:11:20 GMT -5
I just cloned my RM12 and have them on my 2nd Guardian. I'm learning a lot about how people that use them need to think and how they operate. I know you guys in NM have a treasure trove of info already regarding these, but I have a strategy I think might work in clan v clan battles. This is hard to do, but I'd love to see it tested. I assume that the enemy is not ALL RM12 users. They have 2-3 of them and some scouts/defenders to flesh out the team. This would be how I would run a match if I were in charge. Anyway, the key is similar to a good CPC rush, exept you have to take the least common route. It centers on the bum rush towards the RM12 guys ASAP. You want to get where they are and you want to get there from multiple different routes. I would recommend a group of both KS and/or Shadows. You have to have some guys that can bypass the defenders and get in and disrupt the RM guys. Ideally, you'd have one RM guy of your own in the back that could cripple (early rush) or finish off (late rush) any left. Once the RM enemies are taken out, I strongly doubt they'll have many replacements. That said, whoever has the RM guys that last the longest is probably going to win. Just my thoughts. This does assume you know or suspect they're going to do this from the start. This is good stuff and thinking along the right lines. If you KNOW someone will use RMs and can push in like this early you can get the jump on them sometimes, but it depends if he has good defenders or not. Also, if you dont know some is using RMs until you start seeing the first salvo, you usually already have a mech and a course of action picked (getting a beacon, picking a lane/position, etc) and its not always easy to change that course of action. If you do, you can fall behind. If you stay your course, you might get killed by RM fire or at least have it take you out of position. Either way it could be a losing battle but depends on the situation. I generally have strategies that help for some RM play, but it doesnt always work. Some mechs also deal with it better than others like Redfiend said, but i believe smart play should be involved in how an individual plays with it. For example, I saw a video of Mayer using a panther against another panther. Both were about 50m from each other and at about a 45 degree angle in cover. While he was trying to take quick shots at the panther, a guardian from further away lobbed mortars at him. Mayer laid the perfect fence; aimed to block him from the panther and at just the right angle from cover so he could stand between the fence and the edge of cover to negate all RM damage. Situational, but impressively done. I'll have to find that video of it sometime. All of this discussion has been good though. very helpful stuff. |
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 7, 2021 12:19:12 GMT -5
Theoretically, the Panther's Stasis Field shouldn't protect it completely from RM fire. It shouldn't even protect it from JR fire completely. But, there's been times when I've use it to block both. Makes me wonder if one day, the devs will "fix" the Stasis Field so that it becomes harder to block both JR and RM fire.
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Post by Deadeye on Jul 7, 2021 12:30:03 GMT -5
Theoretically, the Panther's Stasis Field shouldn't protect it completely from RM fire. It shouldn't even protect it from JR fire completely. But, there's been times when I've use it to block both. Makes me wonder if one day, the devs will "fix" the Stasis Field so that it becomes harder to block both JR and RM fire. I get Jav fire being blocked as the trajectory of them means you should be able to play with the angles if you know they are coming and from which direction. The RM fire deflection that happens (or used to...I don't see it as often) makes less sense to me sense they drop almost straight down. I seem to recall the block before happening because the RM landed on top of the stasis field. This is fine I guess, but it should be relatively rare IMO. Any RM that lands on normal ground should still possess the same blast radius and the Stasis field shouldn't help. Kinda like the Cheetah mines. Just my $0.02. |
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Post by punishingcossack on Jul 7, 2021 17:27:15 GMT -5
Deadeye this is the vid that scape211 was talking about, about Mayer using his shield in a way that protected against both mortars and the enemy panther (at 2:04)
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 8, 2021 7:35:01 GMT -5
Ah, I see. He used the wall and his own Stasis Field and was mostly over to the right side when the rockets hit. Difficult to pull off and I wonder how much of it was luck? Not luck in terms of his tactics, but in terms of how the rockets landed cause they could have landed on the right side of his SF - unless the rockets were fired while he was still several meters back, and he knew that and intentionally walked forward, applied SF and then walked over to the right a bit. If all that was intentional then kudos. If even half of that was luck then kudos still. That was a good move!
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Post by punishingcossack on Jul 8, 2021 13:40:54 GMT -5
Ah, I see. He used the wall and his own Stasis Field and was mostly over to the right side when the rockets hit. Difficult to pull off and I wonder how much of it was luck? Not luck in terms of his tactics, but in terms of how the rockets landed cause they could have landed on the right side of his SF - unless the rockets were fired while he was still several meters back, and he knew that and intentionally walked forward, applied SF and then walked over to the right a bit. If all that was intentional then kudos. If even half of that was luck then kudos still. That was a good move! Given that this is Mayer we're talking about, it's quite possible it was intentional. I don't think he was targeted by mortars before that moment, but if I were in his shoes, I'd probably expect at least one of the reds to be in a mortar bot, so it's quite possible he was playing around both mortars and his opponent |
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 9, 2021 7:40:38 GMT -5
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jul 9, 2021 7:45:14 GMT -5
Theoretically, the Panther's Stasis Field shouldn't protect it completely from RM fire. It shouldn't even protect it from JR fire completely. But, there's been times when I've use it to block both. Makes me wonder if one day, the devs will "fix" the Stasis Field so that it becomes harder to block both JR and RM fire. As long as the "fix" doesn't coincide with a new mech with a Bubble shield... *shudders.
TBH though, RMs do get around SF pretty effectively, especially against a skilled real player that spreads the fire out by strafing or wiggling the Torso a little when firing. If standing directly in the middle of the fence you can still get lucky and not take any damage, but that is pretty rare, so I am fine with the current state.
Same with Javs, if the angle is right, they can still hit you unless you are standing in the exact middle of the fence (which is hard to accomplish reliably in the heat of battle). It helps that the Panther is so short that it is below the line the top of the fence which helps keep the angle safe of most incoming Jav shots. If it's a Lancer that has a perch somewhere, however, there will almost certainly be a few leakers even if you deploy the shield at the exact right angle against them.
You know what? I think a comms custom match where we can test these theories/facts out to learn the exact limitations and counters would be called for... I'm down if you are!
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 12, 2021 10:21:44 GMT -5
Funny thing happened over the weekend...I finally looked at the ammo count for the RM12 and had a double take when I saw it was only 8. Actually thought I had slapped on my RM8 by accident!
Sheesh, why is the stats for the RM series so confusing? For the longest time, I actually though the EN number also dictated how many rockets they fired. Yup, I actually thought the RM12 fired 12 rockets. Yes, it's true...I don't often read manuals for things I buy either!
So, now that I know the ammo count, I'm actually surprised at how much more powerful the RM12 is. The RM8 fires 5 rockets and the RM10 fires 6. Then, the RM12 makes a "big" jump and fires 8 rockets. It's like, what's the point of even getting either the RM8 or RM10 at all?
On the topic of weird EN:Ammo...
MR6 fires 5 rockets
MR8 fires 6 rockets
but
JR4 fires 4 even though the weapon picture shows 2 missiles sticking out.
JR6 fires 6 even though the weapon picture shows 3 missiles sticking out.
SG2 has 1 barrel and SG4 has 2 barrels.
RPG2 is actually larger than the RPG6...
But I digress...
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Post by Redfiend on Jul 12, 2021 10:58:48 GMT -5
Funny thing happened over the weekend...I finally looked at the ammo count for the RM12 and had a double take when I saw it was only 8. Actually thought I had slapped on my RM8 by accident! Sheesh, why is the stats for the RM series so confusing? For the longest time, I actually though the EN number also dictated how many rockets they fired. Yup, I actually thought the RM12 fired 12 rockets. Yes, it's true...I don't often read manuals for things I buy either! So, now that I know the ammo count, I'm actually surprised at how much more powerful the RM12 is. The RM8 fires 5 rockets and the RM10 fires 6. Then, the RM12 makes a "big" jump and fires 8 rockets. It's like, what's the point of even getting either the RM8 or RM10 at all? On the topic of weird EN:Ammo... MR6 fires 5 rockets MR8 fires 6 rockets but JR4 fires 4 even though the weapon picture shows 2 missiles sticking out. JR6 fires 6 even though the weapon picture shows 3 missiles sticking out. SG2 has 1 barrel and SG4 has 2 barrels. RPG2 is actually larger than the RPG6... But I digress... RM 8 and 10 are intermediaries at best, unless you're a king troll like me and plan to run Jav4 RM8 MD for coordinated play. While the rockets launched by Mortars jumps, the area they cover is the same between all of them. That's the main reason 12 seems so much better than the other 2. I think RM10 is the worst though, as there aren't any good 2 or cost weapons that pair well with it to stick it on lights and mediums respectively. I'd consider Mortar 8+10 on Surge, but feel like Jav6+Mortar 12 would still be superior. Missile rack 6 takes longer to empty out. Shotgun 4 is only 400 damage shy of Missile rack 6 when level for level, making MR6 trash, as shotgun+MR8 is soooooo much better. Javs are especially wierd because of the damage registration display. RPGs always bugged me. 2 should be 6, 4 should be 2, and 6 should be 4. |
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