Happy Fun Ball
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Oct 19, 2020 8:17:18 GMT -5
I have taken a look at the Hawk system to better understand how Pix has set it up. There is not much out there that I am aware of talking about how the beam's damage correlates with the Hawk's level, which weapons the Hawk is equipped with, and what level those weapons are at. To do this, I outfitted my Hawk with various level weapons and then shot at a Ravana on my son's account. I recorded damage taken and distance to build an overall picture of the beam weapon. The first step in the process was to figure out how the beam works. As expected, it is not continuous when accounting for damage but rather is made up of a total of 80 particles. You can see this by noting that the damage the Ravana took always returned certain discrete numbers. However, given the way the Hawk fires, only rarely will all 80 particles hit. When the Hawk is getting near the end of its flight time, the beam seems to jump up in the air when the attached weapons swing around to shoot the target. The last 2-3 particles normally don't hit the target. Here is the distribution of "hits" I got on some of my games: 78 of the particles hit about 64% of the time while 77 hit 26% of the time. The weighted average of hits was 77.6 particles per flight. To make it easier going forward, I'll assume all 80 hit so the math is easier. It looks like Pix reused some code in setting up the Hawk as there is a very minor change in damage with distance to target. You can see that in the table below for damage per particle coming from a MK2L6 Hawk with all MK1/L1 weapons: I also tested the Hawk's weapon against other targets besides the Ravana. In all cases, the damage dealt was the same so long as the target didn't have damage resistance.
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
Posts: 112
Karma: 227
Pilot name: Happy Fun Ball
Platform: iOS
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
MA Division: 1
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Oct 19, 2020 8:17:38 GMT -5
Pix mentions that there are tiers for the weapons you attach to the Hawk, and the tier/level of the weapons affects the damage the Hawk's beam does. JF Soul posted a tier list on Reddit, but beyond that I am unaware of any details being given. After finishing my analysis, I was able to come up with four tiers for light weapons and four tiers for heavy weapons: The number in parentheses after each weapon is the cost to take the weapon to MK2L12. The higher the tier, the greater damage the Hawk's beam does. Surprisingly, Calamity, Viper, and Spark are not tier 4 but rather tier 3. I assume that Sting would be tier 3 as well but I don't have one to test.
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
Posts: 112
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Pilot name: Happy Fun Ball
Platform: iOS
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Oct 19, 2020 8:17:58 GMT -5
The damage done by a Hawk's particle beam is made up of two parts. If you have a Hawk with -NO- weapons attached to it, the Hawk beam will still do damage to the target. That's the first part. The second comes from the weapons that are attached to the Hawk. For the part coming from the Hawk itself, I looked at the damage done per particle when the Hawk was MK2L7 up to MK2L12. The results are shown in column 2 below: As you can see the damage is going up by 28 per particle per Hawk level until we get to MK2L12 where it jumps by 84 (3x the previous increase). The third and fourth columns show what happens to the beam damage when base MK1L1 are attached to the Hawk. For a MK2L7 Hawk, any old light weapon will add 120 damage per particle to the Hawk's beam weapon. By MK2L12, the damage boost is up to 132. A definite increase but not an exponential increase. You also see the same thing in heavy weapons. So how do the tiers and levels of the attached weapons affect the damage done by the Hawk's beam? Since most people are probably interested in a maxed Hawk, here is the table showing damage per particle for a MK2L12 Hawk: If an entry is in light blue, it means that I didn't actually test that level but was able to figure it out based upon other data. If the entry is not colored it means I actually tests how much damage was done by the particular tier/level weapon. As far as how to read the table goes, if we're interested in knowing how much damage per particle is done by a MK1L9 tier 4 heavy weapon, the answer is 594: If we want to figure out what the max damage the beam can do for a MK2L12 Hawk using maxed tier 4 weapons we get: Total damage = 80 particles * (1993 damage for Hawk by itself + 2 * 462 for two tier 4 light weapons + 2 * 924 for two tier 4 heavy weapons) = 381,200 from a single flight. If we want to figure out what the max damage is for a MK2L12 HAWK with MK2L2 tier 3 weapons we would have: Total damage = 80 * (1993 + 2 * 330 + 2 * 726) = 328,400 One thing that the above table is really handy for is to show you break points in damage; the damage done by the Hawk's beam doesn't go up each time a weapon is leveled. For example, a MK1L11 tier 3 light weapon does the exact same damage as a MK2L3 weapon. You can use the table to plan your upgrades if you are mainly interested in how much the Hawk beam does.
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
Posts: 112
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Pilot name: Happy Fun Ball
Platform: iOS
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Oct 19, 2020 8:18:21 GMT -5
This post shows the how much bang for the buck you get in upgrading light weapons. As an example on how to read this, if you have a stock MK1/L1 Halo that you want to upgrade enough so that it does 71% as much damage as a MK2L2 tier 4 weapon (ex., cryo or quarker), you will need to spend 90.7 million Ag.
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
Posts: 112
Karma: 227
Pilot name: Happy Fun Ball
Platform: iOS
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MA Division: 1
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Oct 19, 2020 8:18:34 GMT -5
This is the same thing for heavy weapons:
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
Posts: 112
Karma: 227
Pilot name: Happy Fun Ball
Platform: iOS
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Oct 19, 2020 8:18:45 GMT -5
reserved
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Post by Rollo Tomasi on Oct 19, 2020 8:33:21 GMT -5
Talk about your “Teaser Trailer” - we eagerly await your analysis Happy Fun Ball. I’m sure it will be more advanced than mine: Economics - Costs a lot Damage - Sets a new standard in the ever-escalating Pix Moronicy Circus
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Post by Garbage game on Oct 19, 2020 10:26:33 GMT -5
If Pix had any idea what they were doing they’d give you a battle rec account to make these analyses easier for you.
But alas...
Great work as usual
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Post by Rollo Tomasi on Oct 25, 2020 15:50:29 GMT -5
If Pix had any idea what they were doing they’d give you a battle rec account to make these analyses easier for you. But alas... Great work as usual This will never happen. Happy Fun Ball provides us with way too much transparency and solid analytic value. Pix revels in its very deliberate obfuscation.
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Post by Sebenza 21 on Oct 25, 2020 23:01:01 GMT -5
Fantastic! This will help a lot. It confirms my hunch that pairing 2 magnums with 2 redeemers provides good bang for the buck.
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
Posts: 112
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Pilot name: Happy Fun Ball
Platform: iOS
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Oct 25, 2020 23:21:38 GMT -5
Fantastic! This will help a lot. It confirms my hunch that pairing 2 magnums with 2 redeemers provides good bang for the buck. My guess is that Magnums will be tier 1. If you have something else like shredders around they may be better. The table in post 3 shows the comparisons. A M2L9 tier two light, a M2L4 tier 3 light, and a M2L3 tier 4 light will all do better than the magnums for the Hawk beam. For normal fighting, the magnums will obviously pair better.
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Post by Sebenza 21 on Oct 25, 2020 23:44:00 GMT -5
Fantastic! This will help a lot. It confirms my hunch that pairing 2 magnums with 2 redeemers provides good bang for the buck. My guess is that Magnums will be tier 1. If you have something else like shredders around they may be better. The table in post 3 shows the comparisons. A M2L9 tier two light, a M2L4 tier 3 light, and a M2L3 tier 4 light will all do better than the magnums for the Hawk beam. For normal fighting, the magnums will obviously pair better. Yes, I see that my level 10 shredders give exactly the same amount of bonus damage as my level 10 magnums, for much less cost. Excellent value for money. My hawk uses its weapons almost exclusively for self defence against scorpions. It's good enough for a hardly used weapons load out, at least at mk1 lvl10.
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Post by cookieDad on Oct 26, 2020 3:33:12 GMT -5
Happy Fun Ball, an excellent analysis. I just have a question or remark. The tiers of weapons some weapons are different in the Wiki than you mention here. In Wiki it says that Sparks are Tier 4, Vipers are tier 4, and Glory is nowadays tier 3. There were some Tier changes in Version 6.1. Not sure if the source in Reddit took that already into consideration.
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Post by frunobulax on Oct 26, 2020 8:53:31 GMT -5
Looks like good work, but frankly I'm missing the baseline: How exactly is the Hawk ability damage calculated?
All I can see is that a maxed Hawk just vaporizes my bots. So I guess it's a moot point. But in theory, how much damage can it do?
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Post by Oliver Kloesov on Oct 26, 2020 9:02:09 GMT -5
Happy Fun Ball : That was an epic analyisis. THANKS! Keep those graphics handy as you'll need to update them post-nerf. Rollo Tomasi
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
Posts: 112
Karma: 227
Pilot name: Happy Fun Ball
Platform: iOS
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
MA Division: 1
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Oct 26, 2020 9:24:44 GMT -5
Happy Fun Ball , an excellent analysis. I just have a question or remark. The tiers of weapons some weapons are different in the Wiki than you mention here. In Wiki it says that Sparks are Tier 4, Vipers are tier 4, and Glory is nowadays tier 3. There were some Tier changes in Version 6.1. Not sure if the source in Reddit took that already into consideration. Can you post a link to what you're referring to? I know the stuff on Reddit is incorrect wrt Vipers, Calamities, Sparks, and Glories. I confirmed it with actual testing. I sent a PM to JFSoul on Discord to find out about the Reddit stuff and it was apparently taken from some sort of Russian Facebook page that is not always accurate.
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
Posts: 112
Karma: 227
Pilot name: Happy Fun Ball
Platform: iOS
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
MA Division: 1
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Oct 26, 2020 9:28:10 GMT -5
Looks like good work, but frankly I'm missing the baseline: How exactly is the Hawk ability damage calculated? All I can see is that a maxed Hawk just vaporizes my bots. So I guess it's a moot point. But in theory, how much damage can it do? 3rd post in this thread. If we want to figure out what the max damage the beam can do for a MK2L12 Hawk using maxed tier 4 weapons we get: Total damage = 80 particles * (1993 damage for Hawk by itself + 2 * 462 for two tier 4 light weapons + 2 * 924 for two tier 4 heavy weapons) = 381,200 from a single flight. If we want to figure out what the max damage is for a MK2L12 HAWK with MK2L2 tier 3 weapons we would have: Total damage = 80 * (1993 + 2 * 330 + 2 * 726) = 328,400 I don't have info on Hawk damage below M2L6 and would be afraid to extrapolate to something like a MK1 Hawk.
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Post by cookieDad on Oct 26, 2020 9:43:48 GMT -5
Happy Fun Ball , an excellent analysis. I just have a question or remark. The tiers of weapons some weapons are different in the Wiki than you mention here. In Wiki it says that Sparks are Tier 4, Vipers are tier 4, and Glory is nowadays tier 3. There were some Tier changes in Version 6.1. Not sure if the source in Reddit took that already into consideration. Can you post a link to what you're referring to? I know the stuff on Reddit is incorrect wrt Vipers, Calamities, Sparks, and Glories. I confirmed it with actual testing. I sent a PM to JFSoul on Discord to find out about the Reddit stuff and it was apparently taken from some sort of Russian Facebook page that is not always accurate. Example for the Viper, in this link it says that vipers are tier 4: warrobots.fandom.com/wiki/ViperDon't get me wrong btw, your write-up is amazing!
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
Posts: 112
Karma: 227
Pilot name: Happy Fun Ball
Platform: iOS
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
MA Division: 1
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Oct 26, 2020 11:18:13 GMT -5
Can you post a link to what you're referring to? I know the stuff on Reddit is incorrect wrt Vipers, Calamities, Sparks, and Glories. I confirmed it with actual testing. I sent a PM to JFSoul on Discord to find out about the Reddit stuff and it was apparently taken from some sort of Russian Facebook page that is not always accurate. Example for the Viper, in this link it says that vipers are tier 4: warrobots.fandom.com/wiki/ViperDon't get me wrong btw, your write-up is amazing! It gets confusing as there are tiers for different things. On upgrades, Vipers (as you saw) and Calamities are highest cost to upgrade at 341M Ag to M2L12. Glories are tier 3 on cost at 271M. On the Hawk, though, Vipers/Calamities (Hawk tier 3) don't do as much damage in the Hawk beam as Glories (Hawk tier 4). That was one of the big things that came out of the analysis; highest cost Vipers/Calamities don't do as well as lower cost Glories. If people are throwing together Hawks using weapons they have lying around, they could be fooled into thinking upgrade cost matches performance in the Hawk beam, but that may or may not be true.
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