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Post by The VVatcher on Jul 24, 2020 4:30:02 GMT -5
Honestly I feel sorry for the randoms. Some of them are really trying and even have a solid set up for what they can afford. They simply don’t belong there. And if they are playing passive, it’s because the game has taught them to play like that. If they keep getting smashed going for the beacon, they learn to just keep away. The game is teaching them bad habits.
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Post by T34 on Jul 24, 2020 5:36:43 GMT -5
MM is definitely horrible. Ever since the merger, it has steadily gotten much worse. I am NOT saying these players come from other platforms. I have checked. I have had Android Masters League and lower put into my matches. This is no fun for either me nor them. I wonder what player base looks like right now.... I reckon the player base is very healthy. Look at the steamcharts. However, the points system and the match marker has recently created more boring matches. Why spend when u r a F2P? Why spend when u r a whale. A maxed hanger is no longer needed when most matches have Leo’s and stuff. A barely green hanger will be position 1 something like 70% of the cases. That imo will be the aspect that kills the game.
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Post by Poopface on Jul 24, 2020 7:07:31 GMT -5
Honestly I feel sorry for the randoms. Some of them are really trying and even have a solid set up for what they can afford. They simply don’t belong there. And if they are playing passive, it’s because the game has taught them to play like that. If they keep getting smashed going for the beacon, they learn to just keep away. The game is teaching them bad habits. Eh, not all randoms are like that. I think it's more the newly-jaded playerbase. Those of us who play almost 100% randoms for years are going to do what we're going to do regardless.
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Post by targetonmyback on Jul 24, 2020 7:46:39 GMT -5
This being only my second post on this forum, I felt that the subject resonated with me. Taking it back to the original theme of crappy games I noticed this yesterday. Finishing a game to look at my team mates, seeing a 2 Stalker, Raven, Heatachi 4 bot hangar in mid level champs I felt for the pilot. Tough gig! I wondered if there had been a big loss in player base recently?
Overall being both a “random,” and “F2P” it is hard work. I have to play a lot and refine in game skill to get the results. Getting to in some games 3m damage and top 1-2 generally on lose or win side, and a lot of play does result in high cups, which must be why I’m being considered by the MM as a high champ. Which I am not. The equivalent on the opposing team I measure by last stands. Which means i face META spenders, whom I only approach them with a team mate or two and AVOID being alone with them in a quiet corner of the map.
Saying that, even though I cannot afford Last Stand they get a surprise when hit with mk2. 4-12 gear. Before I die anyway.... This is why to me play time works against you. And does not make sense! But PIX would desire for their game, combined with purchase.
As for purchase, 18 months ago I was to give a little £ to a well developed game. Over time I realised the nerfs and MM make spending not a good investment, and would not want to reward the current business model as I had nothing to thank them for unfortunately.
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Post by balrog89 on Jul 24, 2020 8:11:22 GMT -5
MM is definitely horrible. Ever since the merger, it has steadily gotten much worse. I am NOT saying these players come from other platforms. I have checked. I have had Android Masters League and lower put into my matches. This is no fun for either me nor them. I wonder what player base looks like right now.... I reckon the player base is very healthy. Look at the steamcharts. However, the points system and the match marker has recently created more boring matches. Why spend when u r a F2P? Why spend when u r a whale. A maxed hanger is no longer needed when most matches have Leo’s and stuff. A barely green hanger will be position 1 something like 70% of the cases. That imo will be the aspect that kills the game. I would be interested in knowing how the current MM is affecting clan play. Clans many times are home to the biggest spenders and it seems that even matches across squads are very rare these days. It seems that when we squad, we very seldom get matched against randoms, which is good, but the squads we fight are either top Champions League squads or squad from leagues lower than Champions League. Very seldom are the matches equal these days and I am wondering why. The big spenders I know are only big spenders if they know they will be fighting against other squads of equal players most of the time. Lack of a quality game is one of the reasons several of the upper level spenders from top clans on Android have left the game in the past couple weeks. I have to say the game has become a fine line between boring and frustrating for me over the past couple months. MM is the main reason. When I drop and I see only 1 red with Last Stand and there are 2 campers on both blue and red sides, which is very common these days, I know the match will not be very challenging.
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Post by balrog89 on Jul 24, 2020 8:23:21 GMT -5
Honestly I feel sorry for the randoms. Some of them are really trying and even have a solid set up for what they can afford. They simply don’t belong there. And if they are playing passive, it’s because the game has taught them to play like that. If they keep getting smashed going for the beacon, they learn to just keep away. The game is teaching them bad habits. BIG uptick in passive play. I actually see Noricum/Zenit builds in Champions League on a regular basis now. I also see midrange Ravana builds that make me say.....Hmmmm. Not to mention the countless Dragoon Juns I have been seeing. So many different types of weapons have been introduced since I started. Back when I was new, Tarans and Orkans were the weapons we all knew we wanted. Maybe with the flood of different weapons, players in lower leagues find them viable there and never invested in weapons that would be viable in Champions League play. The current honor system that pushes them up so quickly never gives them the chance to build what many of us older players have. That is why so many think that even players like me, who earned and built my MK2 stash, are whales. I can see where it is frustrating on both sides.
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Post by frunobulax on Jul 24, 2020 9:09:56 GMT -5
I reckon the player base is very healthy. Look at the steamcharts. I would be interested in knowing how the current MM is affecting clan play. Steam never had a healthy playerbase. The game was recognized as p2w crap immediately after becoming available on steam, and has been review bombed.
Clan play has suffered a lot. At least for clans not running death squads. In a full squad, 65% of the games are easy wins. 30% are frustrating losses (getting stomped on). Boooring. 5% of the matches are close and interesting at the 5 minute mark. However, I must admit after being forced to eat 「dookie」 whenever I solo or duo, I'll even take the easy wins. Death squads are still around, and depending on time of day or server this 65% win rate drops a lot. But often they need only 3-4 players to dominate a game. Roll out 3 l150 Mings and a l150 Nodens, and 90% of the games are done.
I know in my last clan we would often have 2 full champ squads at the same time, 18 months ago, in EU primetime. Now we can hardly muster 4 people in one squad. Different clan, but pretty much same player levels/quality/regional distribution...
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Post by Loganspawn on Jul 24, 2020 9:56:55 GMT -5
I reckon the player base is very healthy. Look at the steamcharts. However, the points system and the match marker has recently created more boring matches. Why spend when u r a F2P? Why spend when u r a whale. A maxed hanger is no longer needed when most matches have Leo’s and stuff. A barely green hanger will be position 1 something like 70% of the cases. That imo will be the aspect that kills the game. I would be interested in knowing how the current MM is affecting clan play. Clans many times are home to the biggest spenders and it seems that even matches across squads are very rare these days. It seems that when we squad, we very seldom get matched against randoms, which is good, but the squads we fight are either top Champions League squads or squad from leagues lower than Champions League. Very seldom are the matches equal these days and I am wondering why. The big spenders I know are only big spenders if they know they will be fighting against other squads of equal players most of the time. Lack of a quality game is one of the reasons several of the upper level spenders from top clans on Android have left the game in the past couple weeks. I have to say the game has become a fine line between boring and frustrating for me over the past couple months. MM is the main reason. When I drop and I see only 1 red with Last Stand and there are 2 campers on both blue and red sides, which is very common these days, I know the match will not be very challenging. As you already know play by top clans is down. Many are slowing down playing some have left and then we have the usual summer slow down when people go live some life. This year we also have Coved19. For some that may mean more playtime but for most I know it has meant much less as like myself I have been working the entire time and many more hours than normal with all the extra stress. Also I have noticed if you run duo now matchmaker is much more likely to stack the red team. Even running 3 or more instead of hitting full S clans like before we will hit allot of awesome rando Reds often, people use to dragging teams to victory cannot anymore. First loser over and over does grow old. I myself just added more speed bots in and the new jump module to liven things up and go full bore Kamikaze more often when solo.
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Post by balrog89 on Jul 24, 2020 10:05:46 GMT -5
I would be interested in knowing how the current MM is affecting clan play. Steam never had a healthy playerbase. The game was recognized as p2w crap immediately after becoming available on steam, and has been review bombed.
Clan play has suffered a lot. At least for clans not running death squads. In a full squad, 65% of the games are easy wins. 30% are frustrating losses (getting stomped on). Boooring. 5% of the matches are close and interesting at the 5 minute mark. However, I must admit after being forced to eat ?dookie? whenever I solo or duo, I'll even take the easy wins. Death squads are still around, and depending on time of day or server this 65% win rate drops a lot. But often they need only 3-4 players to dominate a game. Roll out 3 l150 Mings and a l150 Nodens, and 90% of the games are done.
I know in my last clan we would often have 2 full champ squads at the same time, 18 months ago, in EU primetime. Now we can hardly muster 4 people in one squad. Different clan, but pretty much same player levels/quality/regional distribution...
Hmmm, while I most certainly believe your observations, things on my end are not quite the same. Different playing times and the fact that I am in a mid-level Champions League clan may easily explain the differences in what we see. 28 squad games on Wed night. 2 were against randoms. This is a big drop in percentage from a few months ago which is good. We had 4 games against squads from clans equal to our. This is also a big drop in percentages from a few months ago. The rest were against top squads from top clans. This is a big increase from just a few months ago. We did give a good showing in all but 4 where we just got stomped. We were playing Random Match so these games were a mix of BR, Dom and TDM. TDM seems to give the most randoms, but it always has.
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Post by Poopface on Jul 24, 2020 10:41:09 GMT -5
I have been working the entire time and many more hours than normal with all the extra stress. QFT.
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Post by RightOn on Jul 24, 2020 11:18:53 GMT -5
'I love it but how can the MM determine which hangar you are dropping.'
Your hangar total is always displayed under your hangar, on the hangar screen. It's a running total. It automatically and immediately changes when you make changes to your hangar. It doesn't need to determine anything else at all.
'And averaging all hangars runs into the 'one maxed hangar and four L1 Cossack hangars'
This could never, ever happen. It is mathematically impossible. For example, 4 Cossack hangars would literally be a fraction of the maxed hangar. The system I'm describing means the opposite of what you are stating. It would be completely impossible to get a mismatch like this.
'You would need to keep the highest hangar score.'
Not at all. Say your hangar totals 200. You decide you want to replace a level 8 Orkan with a level 12 one. Your running total simply changes to 204.
Hangars aren't averaged. Your hangar total is exactly that. So that 204 is what is used when you hit 'Battle'. Nothing before or after that is taken into account.
'You want to play down? Lower all your hangars to the appropriate level.'
This would not make any sense at all in this system. Playing down would cease to exist as a concept. If you ran a lower hangar for an hour, you would simply contribute less to the team total when MM is seeking players. You would not contribute less to the team performance. Your opposing team would still, in effect, be the same.
I'll try a more complete example:
Using all one bot hangars, for simplicity's sake:
I decide to run a game with a Level 10 Leo, Thunder and gusts at levels 5 = 10 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 = 30 hangar power, displayed always at the bottom of my hangar screen.
I hit 'Battle'. MM adds my '30' to it's usable figures to compose teams. It has a possible red team in the queue at 304, and a blue team at 260. It adds me to the Blue team and starts the match. 304 versus 290.
After this match, I decide 'to hell with Leo', I want to try my Natasha. I switch out my Natty (level 5) with Kang Dae and Arbalests (!) which are at 12 each = 5 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 = 53. This is the total that is displayed under my hangar on the hangar screen. Nah, forget Arbalests, my level 10 Norricums are better. I switch them. Now my running total is 5 + 12 + 12 + 10 + 10 = 49. I hit 'Battle'.
MM adds my 49 to its usable figures. (In my previous example, I would not get into the preformed teams, as I would skew the numbers - unless they could be balanced with other figures.) There is a red team which can be made totalling 125, and a blue team totalling only 25. I get added to the blue queue, making 74, and the MM will seek a hangar(s) to make up the loss.
'I would switch to 5 6Pack hangars in a heartbeat.'
And that is the beauty of it. You absolutely could and would gain no advantage nor any disadvantage.
I think you might be confusing hangar slots with hangars. Or I'm confused. But you keep saying that I would setup my hangar(s) and 'hit Battle'. I actually setup my 5 hangars of 5 bots each and then hit Battle (25 bots). And then when I see the map I choose which of the five hangars I'm going to use for that match. And so, currently, I could setup one hangar of maxed Vits with pilots and L8 weapons, another of 5 L6 Destriers, another of 5 L6 Cossacks, another of 5 L6 Gepards and lastly another of 5 L6 Vityazes, all without any pilots or weapons. I have 172 bots in my garage, this is ready to go. Hangar 1 = 24x5 (bots) + 24x5 (weapons) + 25 (pilots and skills, rough guesstimate) = 265pts Hanger 2 = 6x5 (bots) = 30pts Hanger 3 = 6x5 (bots) = 30pts Hanger 4 = 6x5 (bots) = 30pts Hanger 5 = 6x5 (bots) = 30pts So your system should take my strongest hangar and just use that score (265) rather than average my 5 hangars across each other ((265+120)/5=77) because otherwise I would be able to drop my 265pt hangar into games where other pilots are rocking 77pt hangars. That's what I'm saying. Yes it should go by his strongest hangar only. Players fault for not keeping rounded.
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Post by Munki on Jul 24, 2020 11:59:54 GMT -5
MM is definitely horrible. Ever since the merger, it has steadily gotten much worse. I am NOT saying these players come from other platforms. I have checked. I have had Android Masters League and lower put into my matches. This is no fun for either me nor them. I wonder what player base looks like right now.... I reckon the player base is very healthy. Look at the steamcharts. However, the points system and the match marker has recently created more boring matches. Why spend when u r a F2P? Why spend when u r a whale. A maxed hanger is no longer needed when most matches have Leo’s and stuff. A barely green hanger will be position 1 something like 70% of the cases. That imo will be the aspect that kills the game. Totally agree. I find I can populate many of my hanger slots with new low level bots and pilots I want to gain experience and not affect my scoring too much. Just does not matter when battling in random matches. How Pix thinks this current situation makes them money is beyond me. Love the game and have no issue with spending money but no longer see a point. I have been thinking of something beyond just being in Champion league for top players that could help. Say everyone who gets beyond say 10000 cups at the end of the month is granted a special hanger to choose for the following month. This special hanger would be like something in Skirmish; pre-selected by Pix for them to play against the rest of the playerbase. It would be gimped in some way like lower level bots/weapons or maybe high level but not meta bots. They would be specially skinned so others would know they are playing with that special hanger. Points earned with that hanger would earn a new kind of token along with regular Ag and Au payouts. At the end of the month, there would be prizes of some sort available from the tokens earned. Could be a special badge affixed to the player's screen. This idea is still not fleshed out but I think it could be very interesting...
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Post by ʂɬɛɛƖ on Jul 24, 2020 12:11:22 GMT -5
They should definitely reward based on finish. Legend league player shouldn’t get same end of season reward as someone getting 5000 cups. If they’d incentivize for doing well, perhaps we’d see less tanking
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Post by Loganspawn on Jul 24, 2020 12:21:33 GMT -5
They should definitely reward based on finish. Legend league player shouldn’t get same end of season reward as someone getting 5000 cups. If they’d incentivize for doing well, perhaps we’d see less tanking I think you might confuse doing well with playing a crap ton. I can be in legend as long as I grind like a MOFO. I do not find that type of play enjoyable anymore. What they need to do is fix the ranking system period and part of that would definitely include MUCH better rewards for high level play, not just amount of time played.
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Post by ʂɬɛɛƖ on Jul 24, 2020 12:49:18 GMT -5
They should definitely reward based on finish. Legend league player shouldn’t get same end of season reward as someone getting 5000 cups. If they’d incentivize for doing well, perhaps we’d see less tanking I think you might confuse doing well with playing a crap ton. I can be in legend as long as I grind like a MOFO. I do not find that type of play enjoyable anymore. What they need to do is fix the ranking system period and part of that would definitely include MUCH better rewards for high level play, not just amount of time played. While I agree legend league is just a result of play time. But... no one in LL is playing poorly so that was my only reference
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Post by Loganspawn on Jul 24, 2020 13:23:41 GMT -5
I think you might confuse doing well with playing a crap ton. I can be in legend as long as I grind like a MOFO. I do not find that type of play enjoyable anymore. What they need to do is fix the ranking system period and part of that would definitely include MUCH better rewards for high level play, not just amount of time played. While I agree legend league is just a result of play time. But... no one in LL is playing poorly so that was my only reference LOL I have seen a few. Peace out and happy hunting!
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Post by T34 on Jul 24, 2020 18:00:26 GMT -5
I reckon the player base is very healthy. Look at the steamcharts. However, the points system and the match marker has recently created more boring matches. Why spend when u r a F2P? Why spend when u r a whale. A maxed hanger is no longer needed when most matches have Leo’s and stuff. A barely green hanger will be position 1 something like 70% of the cases. That imo will be the aspect that kills the game. I would be interested in knowing how the current MM is affecting clan play. Clans many times are home to the biggest spenders and it seems that even matches across squads are very rare these days. It seems that when we squad, we very seldom get matched against randoms, which is good, but the squads we fight are either top Champions League squads or squad from leagues lower than Champions League. Very seldom are the matches equal these days and I am wondering why. The big spenders I know are only big spenders if they know they will be fighting against other squads of equal players most of the time. Lack of a quality game is one of the reasons several of the upper level spenders from top clans on Android have left the game in the past couple weeks. I have to say the game has become a fine line between boring and frustrating for me over the past couple months. MM is the main reason. When I drop and I see only 1 red with Last Stand and there are 2 campers on both blue and red sides, which is very common these days, I know the match will not be very challenging. And considering your other post after the response above... IMO, duos are treated as singles and 3+ are treated as a full squad. 3 weeks ago the MM gave large squads randoms after about 35 secs of search time. SoMething like a couple weeks ago Pix increased that to about 50-60 secs. For the past week it is now back to 30 secs. At times it chucks us against solos much faster than that. That never used to happen. During the 50sec phase we saw a lot of squads but for the past week I’d say more than half have been solos. And there are the brave 3 man squads too who I regard as a large squad in this context. This observation (More than half solos) seems to be different to ur experience. Not doubting what u see in this regard but that’s not what I see. Since our squad is not maxed (maybe an average of 1.12) we get beaten badly by maxed squads and usually beat all others as we know how each other plays and we coordinate. Those Mid level squad games are not bad but the others are one way traffic. So the question needs to be asked. Why spend so much? See a maxed clan once every 10-15 games. Having more fun with the squad not being maxed.
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Post by T34 on Jul 24, 2020 18:12:50 GMT -5
I reckon the player base is very healthy. Look at the steamcharts. However, the points system and the match marker has recently created more boring matches. Why spend when u r a F2P? Why spend when u r a whale. A maxed hanger is no longer needed when most matches have Leo’s and stuff. A barely green hanger will be position 1 something like 70% of the cases. That imo will be the aspect that kills the game. Totally agree. I find I can populate many of my hanger slots with new low level bots and pilots I want to gain experience and not affect my scoring too much. Just does not matter when battling in random matches. How Pix thinks this current situation makes them money is beyond me. Love the game and have no issue with spending money but no longer see a point. I have been thinking of something beyond just being in Champion league for top players that could help. Say everyone who gets beyond say 10000 cups at the end of the month is granted a special hanger to choose for the following month. This special hanger would be like something in Skirmish; pre-selected by Pix for them to play against the rest of the playerbase. It would be gimped in some way like lower level bots/weapons or maybe high level but not meta bots. They would be specially skinned so others would know they are playing with that special hanger. Points earned with that hanger would earn a new kind of token along with regular Ag and Au payouts. At the end of the month, there would be prizes of some sort available from the tokens earned. Could be a special badge affixed to the player's screen. This idea is still not fleshed out but I think it could be very interesting... When playing solo I often put one or two low leveled bots in for fun too. Makes very little difference to the outcome and it’s fun to play different setups. However, this is playing a game within a game. Not fun in the long term because it goes agains the main game objectives. Also when you get the allocation where u need all u have than it’s like being caught with the pants around your ankles. The other issue I have with solo games especially in BR is if I load up a heavy damage hanger it makes little difference to most outcomes whether I burn my bots while trying to do as much damage as possible or if I try to play a tactical game. That shouldn’t be so. Sort of makes me wonder what is the point to it all and enthusiasm has gone down as a result.
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Post by balrog89 on Jul 24, 2020 19:36:27 GMT -5
So the question needs to be asked. Why spend so much? See a maxed clan once every 10-15 games. Having more fun with the squad not being maxed. I think, although I admit I have no real proof, that spending may be down....at least on the North American servers. Not only did a handful of our biggest players from our main clan quit recently(these guys have been in the game since the beginning and were very serious players), but we also had....3 I think....step down to my clan which is for us guys who like to play, but do not take it seriously and do not spend much so these guys are effectively lost spenders too. I know they guys who left blame the state of the game, in all aspects. MM being one of those aspects. Dunno my man, if MM and lag do not get better quickly, I think my time is done too. I had a Champions League game today where I was obviously the top player. I scored just under 5 mill killing players with no Last Stand and still lost. One of the blues spawned in...and I kid you not..,,a disco Loki. He did not run beacons. Just sat at the farm all game scoring 137,000 in dam with 1 beacon and no kills. These boring, yet weird matches, are about all I get when soloing. I did run a couple good TDM duos before I got off the game, so that was something. Anyway, good insight. Thanks man.
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