grump76
GI. Patton
Posts: 130
Karma: 154
Pilot name: Quantum Taco
Platform: iOS
Clan: Alpha Botz
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
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Post by grump76 on Jul 4, 2020 18:54:42 GMT -5
Weâve all meched out. It happens. But over the last several weeks when playing solo, most of my losses have involved the majority of the blues meching out way early, like by mid-match. Of course this always happens occasionally, but itâs gotten to the point where itâs almost every losing match itâs me and one or two other blues facing a full red team with 3 or 4 minutes to go. And you know how that ends.
Anyone else experiencing this? Itâs not like Iâm hanging back playing midrange the whole game either, I run all brawlers. Weâll be kicking 「bum-bum」, beacon bar in our favor and suddenly everyoneâs just gone. I donât know if itâs tankers, Titans or something else, but it seems to happening more and more often. Frustrating.
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Post by Pulse Hadron on Jul 4, 2020 19:35:26 GMT -5
I’ve seen this often too; for the first 3 or 4 minutes it seems your team is doing well and then suddenly there’s only 3 blue players left and the other 3 aren’t coming back. I think this is players just recklessly rushing their bots so it pushes the reds back at first but then they mech out quick. Not sure if it’s ad farming or a strategy to quickly build Ag or tanking or all of those. Or maybe they’re trying to get into their maxed titan as quickly as possible.
I’ve been on the other side of this also, where reds are just throwing themselves at us and it’s all we can do to hold our 2 beacons and then after a few minutes there’s missing reds, Learn to identify this and help them mech out then push. Either side though it’s boring really. Whatever it is Pix cultivates unsportsmanlike behavior.
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6kings7
Destrier
Posts: 40
Karma: 35
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Post by 6kings7 on Jul 15, 2020 19:56:35 GMT -5
Weâ??ve all meched out. It happens. But over the last several weeks when playing solo, most of my losses have involved the majority of the blues meching out way early, like by mid-match. Of course this always happens occasionally, but itâ??s gotten to the point where itâ??s almost every losing match itâ??s me and one or two other blues facing a full red team with 3 or 4 minutes to go. And you know how that ends. Anyone else experiencing this? Itâ??s not like Iâ??m hanging back playing midrange the whole game either, I run all brawlers. Weâ??ll be kicking ?bum-bum?, beacon bar in our favor and suddenly everyoneâ??s just gone. I donâ??t know if itâ??s tankers, Titans or something else, but it seems to happening more and more often. Frustrating. |
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6kings7
Destrier
Posts: 40
Karma: 35
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Post by 6kings7 on Jul 15, 2020 20:11:25 GMT -5
Are they meching out or just getting overmatched and squashed. We are seeing maxed Champions in matches with Experts. And you still don't know how many bots were deployed by who, do you? So you can't really do the math. You get crushed as a Low Champion against maxed OP. So Experts don't stand a chance. I think it is likely that some people get so discouraged by bad matching, that they decide it just isn't fun. Seriously, how many times a month do you think it just isn't worth it anymore. I HAVE calculated the supposed match system using ranking and found it very often NOT working according to their own stated algorithm. And you know there's a problem when you can calculate the likely winner most of the time by comparing levels of weapons, modules, pilots, and bots.
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Post by integeritis on Jul 16, 2020 1:12:03 GMT -5
I don’t think they mach out. Check the end of match results. I bet you won’t count 36 bots destroyed by the enemy team.
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Post by Sgt. Beacon on Jul 16, 2020 11:16:27 GMT -5
Unfortunately, there several things that could be the cause. Mech'd out is certainly one of them, also being outmatched is one, but don't forget being disconnected and/or game locking up.
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Post by Method Games[YT] on Jul 16, 2020 19:37:20 GMT -5
Drives me nuts, I'm running around like crazy capping beacon after beacon and in my second or third bot and look up...... Hmm we have 4 bots left on the battle field FFS!
Red team has 6 bots and steam roll us and I have 10+ beacons in a losing side.
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Post by nix on Jul 16, 2020 19:41:09 GMT -5
Welcome to my world
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Post by nix on Jul 16, 2020 19:44:07 GMT -5
Weâ??ve all meched out. It happens. But over the last several weeks when playing solo, most of my losses have involved the majority of the blues meching out way early, like by mid-match. Of course this always happens occasionally, but itâ??s gotten to the point where itâ??s almost every losing match itâ??s me and one or two other blues facing a full red team with 3 or 4 minutes to go. And you know how that ends. Anyone else experiencing this? Itâ??s not like Iâ??m hanging back playing midrange the whole game either, I run all brawlers. Weâ??ll be kicking ?bum-bum?, beacon bar in our favor and suddenly everyoneâ??s just gone. I donâ??t know if itâ??s tankers, Titans or something else, but it seems to happening more and more often. Frustrating. I wrote this on fb last week, didn’t get any response  |
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Post by T34 on Jul 16, 2020 20:52:25 GMT -5
Are they meching out or just getting overmatched and squashed. We are seeing maxed Champions in matches with Experts. And you still don't know how many bots were deployed by who, do you? So you can't really do the math. You get crushed as a Low Champion against maxed OP. So Experts don't stand a chance. I think it is likely that some people get so discouraged by bad matching, that they decide it just isn't fun. Seriously, how many times a month do you think it just isn't worth it anymore. I HAVE calculated the supposed match system using ranking and found it very often NOT working according to their own stated algorithm. And you know there's a problem when you can calculate the likely winner most of the time by comparing levels of weapons, modules, pilots, and bots. and integeritisI think its a combination of the two. When the players with noncompetitive gear get matched with players running highly leveled hangers they probably lose a few bots quick and say screw this and move on. The competetive match is just around the corner. I reckon 1/3 of the time they get smashed, 1/3 of the time they are competetive and 1/3 of the time they are top of the table caliber. They want the later two outcomes. To verify the quality of the MM-ing dont look at the league cups but pay attention to the tally of damage caused by the two teams (dom and especially TDM are much better for this sort of review than BR). Out of curiosity i mapped this for 10 games (acknowledging that this is a very small sample). While the allocation based on league cups is reasonably close most of the time, the allocation in terms of damage caused is way off. Here is the results of a "close" TDM game that went the distance. The end score was 29-25. the battle was in the balance for most of the game and the blow out happened at the end. This is a good representative sample. How did the teams compare when looking at League cups? Well the blues (winners) had a total of 33,129 cups and the reds had 33,264 cups. Thats more or less identical in this respect with the difference equating to 135 cups. Damned close. A 0.4% difference. In terms of clan cups they were optimally matched. So, how did they compare in terms of damage caused. Blues 10.972M vs reds 8.8M. That is a 25% difference. And thats where the problem is and how the MM-er is flawed in terms of generating competetive matches. That difference is like pitting a mk1 L9.5 team against a team who are all Mk1 L12. You cant have a fair and competetive match. But in reality it is worse than that bc the the top scores on both sides were over 3M and their hangers were mostly green. The bottom guys were M3-1 and ended up with less than 1M. So the game was 25% lopsided in terms of capability of the two teams and the allocation was 400% lopsided within each team between the strongest guy and the weakest guy. Thats like creating a weight lifting team where one member can lift 100Kg while the worst performing member can lift 25kgs. Is it any wonder why those 25kg guys often ditch the game? This is the outcome of the distortion caused by increased levels of P2W. It wont go away. |
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Post by T34 on Jul 16, 2020 21:02:01 GMT -5
Weâ??ve all meched out. It happens. But over the last several weeks when playing solo, most of my losses have involved the majority of the blues meching out way early, like by mid-match. Of course this always happens occasionally, but itâ??s gotten to the point where itâ??s almost every losing match itâ??s me and one or two other blues facing a full red team with 3 or 4 minutes to go. And you know how that ends. Anyone else experiencing this? Itâ??s not like Iâ??m hanging back playing midrange the whole game either, I run all brawlers. Weâ??ll be kicking ?bum-bum?, beacon bar in our favor and suddenly everyoneâ??s just gone. I donâ??t know if itâ??s tankers, Titans or something else, but it seems to happening more and more often. Frustrating. I wrote this on fb last week, didn’t get any response Agree with what you said. I think the problem is that the only solution is hanger strength based MM-ing. Pix wont go there for obvious reasons. They cant use the current league system because it doesn't take into consideration the activity level of a player or the damage capability (sufficiently). As per my above post. We are stuck with this. More P2W the worse it will get. They cant match on capability because then there is no reason to improve ones hanger (for a significant number of people). Just like the old times. Would they narrow the allocation bands than wait times would increase. You may be OK with it but i reckon many wouoldnt. Thats why Pix is so keen on the metrics. And the damage potential issue still wouldnt go away. |
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6kings7
Destrier
Posts: 40
Karma: 35
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Post by 6kings7 on Jul 18, 2020 22:28:55 GMT -5
Are they meching out or just getting overmatched and squashed. We are seeing maxed Champions in matches with Experts. And you still don't know how many bots were deployed by who, do you? So you can't really do the math. You get crushed as a Low Champion against maxed OP. So Experts don't stand a chance. I think it is likely that some people get so discouraged by bad matching, that they decide it just isn't fun. Seriously, how many times a month do you think it just isn't worth it anymore. I HAVE calculated the supposed match system using ranking and found it very often NOT working according to their own stated algorithm. And you know there's a problem when you can calculate the likely winner most of the time by comparing levels of weapons, modules, pilots, and bots. and integeritis I think its a combination of the two. When the players with noncompetitive gear get matched with players running highly leveled hangers they probably lose a few bots quick and say screw this and move on. The competetive match is just around the corner. I reckon 1/3 of the time they get smashed, 1/3 of the time they are competetive and 1/3 of the time they are top of the table caliber. They want the later two outcomes. To verify the quality of the MM-ing dont look at the league cups but pay attention to the tally of damage caused by the two teams (dom and especially TDM are much better for this sort of review than BR). Out of curiosity i mapped this for 10 games (acknowledging that this is a very small sample). While the allocation based on league cups is reasonably close most of the time, the allocation in terms of damage caused is way off. Here is the results of a "close" TDM game that went the distance. The end score was 29-25. the battle was in the balance for most of the game and the blow out happened at the end. This is a good representative sample. How did the teams compare when looking at League cups? Well the blues (winners) had a total of 33,129 cups and the reds had 33,264 cups. Thats more or less identical in this respect with the difference equating to 135 cups. Damned close. A 0.4% difference. In terms of clan cups they were optimally matched. So, how did they compare in terms of damage caused. Blues 10.972M vs reds 8.8M. That is a 25% difference. And thats where the problem is and how the MM-er is flawed in terms of generating competetive matches. That difference is like pitting a mk1 L9.5 team against a team who are all Mk1 L12. You cant have a fair and competetive match. But in reality it is worse than that bc the the top scores on both sides were over 3M and their hangers were mostly green. The bottom guys were M3-1 and ended up with less than 1M. So the game was 25% lopsided in terms of capability of the two teams and the allocation was 400% lopsided within each team between the strongest guy and the weakest guy. Thats like creating a weight lifting team where one member can lift 100Kg while the worst performing member can lift 25kgs. Is it any wonder why those 25kg guys often ditch the game? This is the outcome of the distortion caused by increased levels of P2W. It wont go away. |
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6kings7
Destrier
Posts: 40
Karma: 35
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Post by 6kings7 on Jul 18, 2020 23:16:15 GMT -5
Great analysis. But you have to wonder why you are able to do so much more direct analysis than Pix? I can't imagine that it is a good business model for the long term. I'm impressed that they have lasted as long as they have but this seems like a fatal flaw. I'm doubt I will be around to reach MK2-12. Even if I do, by that time all the bots in my hanger will probably be too un-competitive anyway and I could care less about (much less afford) maxing drones or pilots on top of it.
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Post by T34 on Jul 19, 2020 5:11:46 GMT -5
Great analysis. But you have to wonder why you are able to do so much more direct analysis than Pix? I can't imagine that it is a good business model for the long term. I'm impressed that they have lasted as long as they have but this seems like a fatal flaw. I'm doubt I will be around to reach MK2-12. Even if I do, by that time all the bots in my hanger will probably be too un-competitive anyway and I could care less about (much less afford) maxing drones or pilots on top of it. Pix would know this in great detail. I would say this sort of thing is highly considered when it comes to balancing and match maker configurations. How far they can push the p2w aspect of the game before people bail has to be high in their consideration when releasing new content. while people are likely to put up with a lot of this sort of 「dookie」 I think the issue is that the game will gradually become more and more boring at the top end. |
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Post by bravex on Jul 20, 2020 5:49:48 GMT -5
I've known about tanking clans but now I'm seeing leaving squads. Groups of three or four from the same clan who all have zero kills, zero damage and zero beacons at the end of a match.
I know Pix can't crack down on leavers because some players have issues with the game crashing but when three members of the same clan leave a match it's obvious.
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