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Post by barksley on Jun 3, 2020 15:07:01 GMT -5
I got lucky and have a Cyclone and Cataclysm. I was looking at moving over from my current Arthur to an Au Ming. I have seen a lot of plasma weapons on Au Mings. The Cyclone/Cataclysm have the same range but are a bit different, as they have a lower burst but higher sustained DPS. Additionally they have dramatically reduced range when in the 500-600m range.
I was wondering if any has any thoughts on if an AM would be effective with Cyclone/Cataclysm load out? I think this would change the dynamic of the AM where instead of sitting out at the 600m range, that you would need to get in much closer. That being said, at a closer range the power of these weapons would be tremendous.
With 22,524 sustained DPS at base, plus 25% For AM damage boost, 81% from Antimatter, that means 50,960 sustained DPS. If it follows the Scourge damage distance, that means at 300m - 68,287 DPS, 250 - 84,593, and 100m - 113,131. That is a lot of damage.
This is a very different approach from the plasma weapons as they have the benefit of full damage from 600m, but the sustained damage runs 1/2-1/3.
Any thoughts?
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Post by shivaswrath on Jun 3, 2020 16:04:07 GMT -5
I'd keep on Arthur....I've run a Cataclysm on AM and you need two.
And two cuirassier.
It's an expensive build.
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Post by reconnecting on Jun 3, 2020 16:42:42 GMT -5
I rolled 1000 coins last night and got a Cataclysm. Immediately put it on Arthur and levelled to 1.6. It gave Some AMs hell today. I forgot that scourge style weapons need To Get Closer For More Damage. I Will Try That. Very Pleased With It. My Kid Received The Other Titan Weapon From Arthur. The Heavy Machine Gun.
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Post by barksley on Jun 3, 2020 17:32:17 GMT -5
To clarify, i have two Cyclones and two Cataclysms, so the AM would be completely scourge type weapons.
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Post by teraflx on Jun 3, 2020 17:41:46 GMT -5
To clarify, i have two Cyclones and two Cataclysms, so the AM would be completely scourge type weapons. I would do it then. They are beasts. I've been eaten up in seconds by them before in Champions League with high HP bots. They are good against Ravana too since they keep blasting it so when its off its ability for a split second it takes damage. That is hard to time with the plasma guns. I also heard but can not confirm that they do not drop off near as bad as Scourges/Sparks too at distance.
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Post by Desc440 on Jun 3, 2020 18:13:07 GMT -5
To clarify, i have two Cyclones and two Cataclysms, so the AM would be completely scourge type weapons. It would work, but I still think Arty's a better platform for these weapons.
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Post by barksley on Jun 3, 2020 21:52:00 GMT -5
To clarify, i have two Cyclones and two Cataclysms, so the AM would be completely scourge type weapons. It would work, but I still think Arty's a better platform for these weapons. Fair point since an Arthur is going to be up close and personal so the distance multiplier will help.
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Post by l》THE MACHINE《l on Jun 3, 2020 22:28:21 GMT -5
To clarify, i have two Cyclones and two Cataclysms, so the AM would be completely scourge type weapons. I would do it then. They are beasts. I've been eaten up in seconds by them before in Champions League with high HP bots. They are good against Ravana too since they keep blasting it so when its off its ability for a split second it takes damage. That is hard to time with the plasma guns. I also heard but can not confirm that they do not drop off near as bad as Scourges/Sparks too at distance. No, the plasma is exactly like dragoons so it has no drop off. These weapons are like scourge so they have the same mechanics as tasers.
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Post by l》THE MACHINE《l on Jun 3, 2020 22:31:53 GMT -5
It would work, but I still think Arty's a better platform for these weapons. Fair point since an Arthur is going to be up close and personal so the distance multiplier will help. Also plasma mings won't be able to stay out of your range so their main strength is countered. Ao mings work best with goons and rockets so this is probably the best way to go.
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Post by shivaswrath on Jun 4, 2020 6:48:22 GMT -5
To clarify, i have two Cyclones and two Cataclysms, so the AM would be completely scourge type weapons. then do it...and go play the Lottery today that's some luck!!
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Post by Deadeye on Jun 4, 2020 8:03:32 GMT -5
It would work, but I still think Arty's a better platform for these weapons. Fair point since an Arthur is going to be up close and personal so the distance multiplier will help. Also, if you haven't seen how Adrian and others use the Cataclysm and Cyclone on the Arthur, it helps to maximize his shielding. It's the same lock-on principle that the Bulgasari used to use. When you lock, your weapons will continue to shoot if you turn your torso slightly. This means if one of your shields is broken off, you can fire and turn slightly to fully utilize your unbroken shield. You can't do this with other weapons. It's a pretty big advantage as it buys you even more survivibility.
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Post by teraflx on Jun 4, 2020 9:56:14 GMT -5
I would do it then. They are beasts. I've been eaten up in seconds by them before in Champions League with high HP bots. They are good against Ravana too since they keep blasting it so when its off its ability for a split second it takes damage. That is hard to time with the plasma guns. I also heard but can not confirm that they do not drop off near as bad as Scourges/Sparks too at distance. No, the plasma is exactly like dragoons so it has no drop off. These weapons are like scourge so they have the same mechanics as tasers. I know. I was talking about the Cyclone/Cataclysm. Thats why I was comparing them to the scourge/spark.
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Post by Munki on Jun 4, 2020 11:40:29 GMT -5
Got the Cataclysm from a 1000 coin chest a few days ago. Had been accruing Pt for when the Cyclones become available for purchase. Have a maxed Gendarme but went ahead and fully leveled the Cataclysm and put the Gendarme in storage. Sits on my Arthur with just level 5 Retaliators but two maxed Antimatter Reactors. I can say that it is much better than the Gendarme in how I use the bot. Love that I can sustain shooting and move the bot side to side and have the lock change to the different bots. Most times, it does not need to re-acquire a lock so it just keeps shooting.
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Post by Deadeye on Jun 4, 2020 12:29:57 GMT -5
Got the Cataclysm from a 1000 coin chest a few days ago. Had been accruing Pt for when the Cyclones become available for purchase. Have a maxed Gendarme but went ahead and fully leveled the Cataclysm and put the Gendarme in storage. Sits on my Arthur with just level 5 Retaliators but two maxed Antimatter Reactors. I can say that it is much better than the Gendarme in how I use the bot. Love that I can sustain shooting and move the bot side to side and have the lock change to the different bots. Most times, it does not need to re-acquire a lock so it just keeps shooting. I have Retaliators with a Tsar on my Arthur and the Cataclysm is the only thing I'd consider replacing the Tsar with. I won't get rid of the Retaliators because of their ability to punch through Arthur shields. However, I think the trade off between how I currently use my Tsar (splash damage on hiding bots, constant damage on any titan) would be justified by the extra range and intense damage potential of the Cataclysm. You have a very dangerous weapon on your hands.
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Post by Munki on Jun 4, 2020 12:38:50 GMT -5
Got the Cataclysm from a 1000 coin chest a few days ago. Had been accruing Pt for when the Cyclones become available for purchase. Have a maxed Gendarme but went ahead and fully leveled the Cataclysm and put the Gendarme in storage. Sits on my Arthur with just level 5 Retaliators but two maxed Antimatter Reactors. I can say that it is much better than the Gendarme in how I use the bot. Love that I can sustain shooting and move the bot side to side and have the lock change to the different bots. Most times, it does not need to re-acquire a lock so it just keeps shooting. I have Retaliators with a Tsar on my Arthur and the Cataclysm is the only thing I'd consider replacing the Tsar with. I won't get rid of the Retaliators because of their ability to punch through Arthur shields. However, I think the trade off between how I currently use my Tsar (splash damage on hiding bots, constant damage on any titan) would be justified by the extra range and intense damage potential of the Cataclysm. You have a very dangerous weapon on your hands. I'm hearing I should probably upgrade my Retaliators. Good to hear since I already have them!
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Post by Deadeye on Jun 4, 2020 12:47:17 GMT -5
I have Retaliators with a Tsar on my Arthur and the Cataclysm is the only thing I'd consider replacing the Tsar with. I won't get rid of the Retaliators because of their ability to punch through Arthur shields. However, I think the trade off between how I currently use my Tsar (splash damage on hiding bots, constant damage on any titan) would be justified by the extra range and intense damage potential of the Cataclysm. You have a very dangerous weapon on your hands. I'm hearing I should probably upgrade my Retaliators. Good to hear since I already have them! I think you should, yes, but know this. The Retaliators don't need to be super leveled to punch through the shields. They don't need extra damage mitigation and they still get that 2x shield benefit. The extra levels will mostly help them eat through the juice center of the lollipop faster with the Cataclysm. Once the shield goes, then you have to deal with the DR of the Arthur. On mine, I'm sitting at 156 defense points. The Cataclysm will be doing the lion's share of that when the shields are gone. If you don't have premium modules yet, I'd actually focus on those before the Retaliators. Get the MGs to level 10, then focus on modules (if you haven't already).
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Post by l》THE MACHINE《l on Jun 4, 2020 14:50:02 GMT -5
No, the plasma is exactly like dragoons so it has no drop off. These weapons are like scourge so they have the same mechanics as tasers. I know. I was talking about the Cyclone/Cataclysm. Thats why I was comparing them to the scourge/spark. Oh, yeah I understand my mistake. You meant that the percent of damage you lose when at max range is less than with scourge and spark right? Wasn't very awake when I replied lol.
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Post by teraflx on Jun 4, 2020 14:53:41 GMT -5
I know. I was talking about the Cyclone/Cataclysm. Thats why I was comparing them to the scourge/spark. Oh, yeah I understand my mistake. You meant that the percent of damage you lose when at max range is less than with scourge and spark right? Wasn't very awake when I replied lol. Yes exactly. I didnt word it great either. Someone on the forum stated that the damage does not drop off as steep at max range like the scourges and sparks. I cant remember who said it and I am not sure if anyone has tested its % drop of not yet. I do know they are painful though, the guy who got me melted me like butter lol.
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Post by Munki on Jun 4, 2020 16:32:07 GMT -5
I'm hearing I should probably upgrade my Retaliators. Good to hear since I already have them! I think you should, yes, but know this. The Retaliators don't need to be super leveled to punch through the shields. They don't need extra damage mitigation and they still get that 2x shield benefit. The extra levels will mostly help them eat through the juice center of the lollipop faster with the Cataclysm. Once the shield goes, then you have to deal with the DR of the Arthur. On mine, I'm sitting at 156 defense points. The Cataclysm will be doing the lion's share of that when the shields are gone. If you don't have premium modules yet, I'd actually focus on those before the Retaliators. Get the MGs to level 10, then focus on modules (if you haven't already). Two level 25 Antimatter reactors and a level 23 premium armor kit. On the Arthur, I mainly upgraded the part that gives higher speed so far. Tough to commit the Pt to a Titan; I fear the ideal Titan for me will come out down the road and I really do not want to have sunk too much Pt into previous ones. Mainly upgrading what I can move between Titans. Thanks for the advice, Deadeye
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Post by Deadeye on Jun 5, 2020 7:49:48 GMT -5
I think you should, yes, but know this. The Retaliators don't need to be super leveled to punch through the shields. They don't need extra damage mitigation and they still get that 2x shield benefit. The extra levels will mostly help them eat through the juice center of the lollipop faster with the Cataclysm. Once the shield goes, then you have to deal with the DR of the Arthur. On mine, I'm sitting at 156 defense points. The Cataclysm will be doing the lion's share of that when the shields are gone. If you don't have premium modules yet, I'd actually focus on those before the Retaliators. Get the MGs to level 10, then focus on modules (if you haven't already). Two level 25 Antimatter reactors and a level 23 premium armor kit. On the Arthur, I mainly upgraded the part that gives higher speed so far. Tough to commit the Pt to a Titan; I fear the ideal Titan for me will come out down the road and I really do not want to have sunk too much Pt into previous ones. Mainly upgrading what I can move between Titans. Thanks for the advice, Deadeye BTW, that's exactly what I did with my Arthur. Speed/fart and the Hull (base HP and DR). The shield is already plenty strong. Those premium armor kits will make a HUGE difference when maxed, but I did the antimatter reactors first too.
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Post by shivaswrath on Jun 5, 2020 13:10:38 GMT -5
Here's a fun new scenario: Arthur with 2 cyclones, 1 cata, 2 plated, 1 anti, and ONE SELF HEAL....BOOM!!!!!
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Post by Munki on Jun 5, 2020 14:27:16 GMT -5
Here's a fun new scenario: Arthur with 2 cyclones, 1 cata, 2 plated, 1 anti, and ONE SELF HEAL....BOOM!!!!! I had been waiting to buy cyclones and I'm sure they are still great when leveled. HOWEVER, Deadeye makes a good point about the Retaliators in that they do double damage to shields. Enemy Arthurs are a tough nut to crack. The Retaliators do a great job chewing into them. Also, all of us already have the Retaliators, so saving the Pt cost on buying two Beta weapons allows my Titan to be farther along with upgrading. Hit a new personal best damage total today. Got just under 4.3 million damage without any boosts running. I believe I can attribute a lot to now having that Cataclysm!
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Post by barksley on Jun 5, 2020 19:51:18 GMT -5
I have been running a few different combos. I have an Arthur and having a cataclysm and retaliators has worked well. Once through the shield, which is typically at close range, then the other Arthur just melts away. I have also been running them on an Ao Ming. A lot more of a combination of flying and on the ground to get closer to people. From a distance it does not seem to be as effective as the burst damage is not high enough so people hide behind cover and you just cant kill people. However if you are closer, then the damage is great. Long distance levels are not as good with the energy weapons on the Ao Ming, but on closer up levels, they are great. I have killed a number of Arthurs as well, by walking close to them on the other side of a wall, then flying into the air and bypassing the shields over the top.
Interesting how the weapons all seem to have their place and different play style.
By the way, with all cats and cyclones, the targeting time for lock on can be skipped if you jump to a new target right before you kill someone. Then there is no 3 second lock down wait. You have to time it, but it save a bunch of time. They are particularly good for Ravanas as you can keep firing through transcendence so as soon as it ends, you are doing damange.
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Post by frunobulax on Jun 6, 2020 3:21:55 GMT -5
To clarify, i have two Cyclones and two Cataclysms, so the AM would be completely scourge type weapons. I would do it then. They are beasts. I've been eaten up in seconds by them before in Champions League with high HP bots. They are good against Ravana too since they keep blasting it so when its off its ability for a split second it takes damage. That is hard to time with the plasma guns. I also heard but can not confirm that they do not drop off near as bad as Scourges/Sparks too at distance. I won a Cataclysm and compared it to Vengeance at 450m. The DPS are very similar, against medium sized stationary bots (tested Invader, which has a small hitbox despite its size). Cataclysm is 30% better against small targets (Pursuer). I'd assume that it is superior against moving bots. So I replaced my vengeance, even though I have only one Scourge-like weapon. Don't think it's much of a difference though. In Champ, titans kill all other bots because people spend loads of RM.
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Post by shivaswrath on Jun 6, 2020 7:51:15 GMT -5
I have been running a few different combos. I have an Arthur and having a cataclysm and retaliators has worked well. Once through the shield, which is typically at close range, then the other Arthur just melts away. I have also been running them on an Ao Ming. A lot more of a combination of flying and on the ground to get closer to people. From a distance it does not seem to be as effective as the burst damage is not high enough so people hide behind cover and you just cant kill people. However if you are closer, then the damage is great. Long distance levels are not as good with the energy weapons on the Ao Ming, but on closer up levels, they are great. I have killed a number of Arthurs as well, by walking close to them on the other side of a wall, then flying into the air and bypassing the shields over the top. Interesting how the weapons all seem to have their place and different play style. By the way, with all cats and cyclones, the targeting time for lock on can be skipped if you jump to a new target right before you kill someone. Then there is no 3 second lock down wait. You have to time it, but it save a bunch of time. They are particularly good for Ravanas as you can keep firing through transcendence so as soon as it ends, you are doing damange. Yeah against Ravanas they are brutal...I maxed all four of my Cyclones and Ravanas just melt.
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Post by naagloshii on Jun 6, 2020 8:33:40 GMT -5
I have been running a few different combos. I have an Arthur and having a cataclysm and retaliators has worked well. Once through the shield, which is typically at close range, then the other Arthur just melts away. I have also been running them on an Ao Ming. A lot more of a combination of flying and on the ground to get closer to people. From a distance it does not seem to be as effective as the burst damage is not high enough so people hide behind cover and you just cant kill people. However if you are closer, then the damage is great. Long distance levels are not as good with the energy weapons on the Ao Ming, but on closer up levels, they are great. I have killed a number of Arthurs as well, by walking close to them on the other side of a wall, then flying into the air and bypassing the shields over the top. Interesting how the weapons all seem to have their place and different play style. By the way, with all cats and cyclones, the targeting time for lock on can be skipped if you jump to a new target right before you kill someone. Then there is no 3 second lock down wait. You have to time it, but it save a bunch of time. They are particularly good for Ravanas as you can keep firing through transcendence so as soon as it ends, you are doing damange. Yeah against Ravanas they are brutal...I maxed all four of my Cyclones and Ravanas just melt. 100% agree one of the best counters vs Ravana.
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Post by frunobulax on Jun 8, 2020 8:41:05 GMT -5
By the way, with all cats and cyclones, the targeting time for lock on can be skipped if you jump to a new target right before you kill someone. Then there is no 3 second lock down wait. You have to time it, but it save a bunch of time. They are particularly good for Ravanas as you can keep firing through transcendence so as soon as it ends, you are doing damange. Yeah against Ravanas they are brutal...I maxed all four of my Cyclones and Ravanas just melt. IDK. I guess all bots melt if facing maxed titan weapons. The locking mechanism makes it good against fast bots that can dodge rockets and bullets, but frankly I don't see why it should be a Ravana counter. The main issue with Ravana is the extended immunity, so either you go with high burst or with high durability to outlast it. Scourge-like weapons have no specific advantage, as they have high sustained damage but limited burst.
One effect we may see is that many Ravanas are fairly fresh and not well levelled...
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Post by Munki on Jun 8, 2020 8:48:13 GMT -5
Yeah against Ravanas they are brutal...I maxed all four of my Cyclones and Ravanas just melt. IDK. I guess all bots melt if facing maxed titan weapons. The locking mechanism makes it good against fast bots that can dodge rockets and bullets, but frankly I don't see why it should be a Ravana counter. The main issue with Ravana is the extended immunity, so either you go with high burst or with high durability to outlast it. Scourge-like weapons have no specific advantage, as they have high sustained damage but limited burst.
One effect we may see is that many Ravanas are fairly fresh and not well levelled...
The big taser-type weapon advantage against the Ravana is that they stay locked on to the Ravana even if it goes into Transcendence or Phase Shift so once it comes back out, damage is applied immediately. Other weapons can obviously do the same thing technically, but with the amount of lag in the game, the continuously firing taser weapon ensures there is damage applied to the bot. The weapon's lock on ability really helps ensure the damage hits. We think we are shooting what is on our screens but it is what happens server side that actually counts.
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Post by shivaswrath on Jun 8, 2020 8:52:03 GMT -5
IDK. I guess all bots melt if facing maxed titan weapons. The locking mechanism makes it good against fast bots that can dodge rockets and bullets, but frankly I don't see why it should be a Ravana counter. The main issue with Ravana is the extended immunity, so either you go with high burst or with high durability to outlast it. Scourge-like weapons have no specific advantage, as they have high sustained damage but limited burst.
One effect we may see is that many Ravanas are fairly fresh and not well levelled...
The big taser-type weapon advantage against the Ravana is that they stay locked on to the Ravana even if it goes into Transcendence or Phase Shift so once it comes back out, damage is applied immediately. Other weapons can obviously do the same thing technically, but with the amount of lag in the game, the continuously firing taser weapon ensures there is damage applied to the bot. The weapon's lock on ability really helps ensure the damage hits. We think we are shooting what is on our screens but it is what happens server side that actually counts. exactly it's the lockon that's key...high burst does 「dookie」 all against a Ravana. They move and next thing you know what you fired is reloading and now you have to fire again but you have no burst. Scourges or Cyclones or Cataclysm.
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Post by Munki on Jun 8, 2020 9:03:47 GMT -5
The big taser-type weapon advantage against the Ravana is that they stay locked on to the Ravana even if it goes into Transcendence or Phase Shift so once it comes back out, damage is applied immediately. Other weapons can obviously do the same thing technically, but with the amount of lag in the game, the continuously firing taser weapon ensures there is damage applied to the bot. The weapon's lock on ability really helps ensure the damage hits. We think we are shooting what is on our screens but it is what happens server side that actually counts. exactly it's the lockon that's key...high burst does ?dookie? all against a Ravana. They move and next thing you know what you fired is reloading and now you have to fire again but you have no burst. Scourges or Cyclones or Cataclysm. If there was zero lag in the game, high DPS weapons would work. I know I could hit them by timing things. But with the network lag, I will see the Ravana come out of Transcendence on my tablet but the red has already put his bot into the next Transcendence on his phone or tablet so when my shot command gets to the server, the shot does not hit. Like how when we get shot by a bot that appears to be in Phase Shift. The lag is made so much worse by all the things that can be done and countered in the game these days. The taser weapons have the best characteristics to overcome that lag. I use storms on my Ravana and I hate fighting other Ravanas for this very reason.
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