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Post by pilotputput on Mar 20, 2017 14:54:57 GMT -5
The New League System looks like 1 big cash grab to me.
What was once a game that allowed every1 an opportunity EQUALLY for ALL PLAYERS (Both Kids & Adults) to advance at their own pace has now entered the business world of extreme competition for Adults Only.
So now, if you want to remain competitive at War Robots, you'd better get ready to break out your wallets b/c there is now no such thing as advancing at your own pace.
i "used to" enjoy this game with my young son Niko (who will be turning 7 in June) and now, he asks me almost every nite "to fight for him" b/c it's too hard for him.
Can Anyone Please Tell Me How a Game We started playing together just after Christmas has become too hard in 1 week?
Now, there's No such thing as allowing your upgrades to occur over time - it's Cash On The Spot or Die !
This game was actually pretty good like that - it reminded me of how when i was i child, i would have to wait for something to come in the mail vs today's "push button / instant results" mentality - This was something that even i enjoyed when i'm constantly trying to get him outside to either ride his bike or kick a ball around.
Anyway, all i have to say now is; "Well Done Pixonic - Did your accounting department justify this along the lines of ReCouping Lost Revenue"... Because That's exactly what it is... Making Pilots Pay for Gold vs Having A Chance 2 Make it for yourself.
(below is a quick Flow-Chart in 4 easy steps of how this all flows downhill) for those of us that fail to see what i'm trying to say:
--> from the Pixonic Accounting Dept wanting to ReCoup Lost Revenue,
--> to Pixonic Administration calling it New Rules of Fairness for the NOOBie,
--> to the Pilot(s) being forced to Level Up (Way Up) beyond their means,
--> to the Pilot(s) (and Parents) being forced to Pull Out their Wallet$.
Yep, Sounds Fair to me - more like Fair to Pixonic's Bank Account (in 4 easy Steps).
You know, last week i watched a video entitled something like "The God Bot made me 1M in damage" where i already knew this Pilot was referring to the 1st edition of the Dash Bot.
After watching the video i noticed this Pilot's excellence in shooting accuracy and asked a few simple questions regarding this person's technique and compared it to having an "automated app" b/c this Pilot was "that good".
Then, sometime later, the Moderator of the Forum has the guts to accuse me of cheating? Now Talk about Hypocrisy and The Pot that calls the Kettle "Black".
WHAT DO YOU THINK ?
Pilot(s) PUT PUT
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Post by Why? on Mar 20, 2017 15:00:40 GMT -5
I saw/read that altercation. I think the moderator meant that using an aiming app is against the rules and any discussion of it is against the rules either since it might give people ideas. I think a gap in comprehension on both sides led to you feeling bad...
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Post by Dredd77 on Mar 20, 2017 15:06:40 GMT -5
My 6-year-old son, who is not spending money to remain competitive, is having more fun and doing better in this MM than the old one. While I personally prefer the old style better, I don't believe this is a "cash grab" move at all.
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☆ CORVUSNEX ☆
Destrier
Posts: 106
Karma: 76
Pilot name: ☆ CORVUSNEX ☆
Platform: Android
Clan: iΔC
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Galahad
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Post by ☆ CORVUSNEX ☆ on Mar 20, 2017 15:15:19 GMT -5
Does your son have his own account, or is he using yours? I would expect a 7-yr old would not progress beyond the lowest 2 tiers, based on a kid's battlefield awareness and sense of tactics being limited.
If your son has his own War Robots account and the competition has gotten too tough for him, then something weird is going on.
If your son is using YOUR War Robots account, then he is likely facing opponents in an higher league that YOU are normally comfortable with. In that case, yeah, with the league system still being worked out he will be fighting in quite a few matches with players beyond his bot/weapons/skill levels.
Lastly, the idea that you need to spend real money on this game to be successful is completely garbage. At the top levels of the game, the most common bot is the GRIFFIN. Yes, frequently it is carrying a pair of Orkans but those are easily saved for with playing every day and just completing the daily tasks. Other good/serviceable silver and WSP only bot setups include:
Plasma Griffin or Rhino (Tarans/Magnums)
Russian Death Button ("RDB") Griffin (Tulumbas/CRV Pins)
Thunder/Pinata Leo
Trident Carnage
Trident/Pin Natasha
Molot Griffin
Thunder/Taran Boa
Workshop Points (WSP) just take time to earn, no skill or anything like that. And you can do very well with just silver weapons until you start reaching bot levels 8-9.
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Post by Dredd77 on Mar 20, 2017 15:21:58 GMT -5
Does your son have his own account, or is he using yours? I would expect a 7-yr old would not progress beyond the lowest 2 tiers, based on a kid's battlefield awareness and sense of tactics being limited. You'd be surprised. My son made Gold. I was so floored (and so proud), that I immediately bought him a Zeus as a congratulations.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 15:31:24 GMT -5
My 6-year-old son, who is not spending money to remain competitive, is having more fun and doing better in this MM than the old one. While I personally prefer the old style better, I don't believe this is a "cash grab" move at all. Does he play iOS? It seems the game experiences are quite different between the two platforms. My son (8) plays on iOS and it seems like a kinder, gentler world - he runs Leo / Gareth / Fujin hangar in low silver and does pretty well (around 60% wins). On Android, you can't get out of recruit without seeing full heavy lineups and premium bots. Gold league you will frequently see near max hangars. |
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Post by Scuzzbopper on Mar 20, 2017 15:36:06 GMT -5
Does your son have his own account, or is he using yours? I would expect a 7-yr old would not progress beyond the lowest 2 tiers, based on a kid's battlefield awareness and sense of tactics being limited. You'd be surprised. My son made Gold. I was so floored (and so proud), that I immediately bought him a Zeus as a congratulations. My 8 yr old has his own account and is in Gold with a 3 bot hanger. He has no impulse control to save for the 4th and 5th slots. I think his best bot is a 6/5 thunder/plasma Leo. He has a blast just blowing stuff up. Granted, he is on IOS where the competition seems to be a bit weaker... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 16:23:07 GMT -5
Elo Matchmaking could be interpreted as a cash grab for Pix in this way:
Pix took out the easy access to lower tiers. Anyone could load up on 5x 4/6 Thunder Sclutze and farm gold and buy a Fury in month (150 AU per day). If you had some more time to spend, 200 AU per day was a respectable salary.
Now, in order to get to the low tiers, you have to tank. A whole day of nonstop tanking will get you to bronze and you can only farm for ~150 games before being placed into a hard Leagues.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 17:00:57 GMT -5
Elo Matchmaking could be interpreted as a cash grab for Pix in this way: Pix took out the easy access to lower tiers. Anyone could load up on 5x 4/6 Thunder Sclutze and farm gold and buy a Fury in month (150 AU per day). If you had some more time to spend, 200 AU per day was a respectable salary. Now, in order to get to the low tiers, you have to tank. A whole day of nonstop tanking will get you to bronze and you can only farm for ~150 games before being placed into a hard Leagues. On android, it takes about 50 games to get from the high end of the league below bronze (recruit?) to the edge of gold, assuming you have a hangar that can do well in gold. Things will then slow down as there are lots of near-max hangars floating around in gold and you won't be farming anymore, you'll be working to win. While the tanking can be quick if you know what to do, the whole process is monotonous. To rake in meaningful amounts of gold you have to do it repeatedly, which I don't have the patience for. Yes, you can run any hangar you like while doing it... but in the old days you could just play high bronze or low silver and profit without worrying about moving up or down. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Mar 20, 2017 17:03:02 GMT -5
Elo Matchmaking could be interpreted as a cash grab for Pix in this way: Pix took out the easy access to lower tiers. Anyone could load up on 5x 4/6 Thunder Sclutze and farm gold and buy a Fury in month (150 AU per day). If you had some more time to spend, 200 AU per day was a respectable salary. Now, in order to get to the low tiers, you have to tank. A whole day of nonstop tanking will get you to bronze and you can only farm for ~150 games before being placed into a hard Leagues. OK, granted... but a 4/6 Thunder Shootsie, would have put you in Bronze, right? Even if it was in Low Silver... the Farmers were the problem. The rookies had no chance against them. There were just as many cries to stop that, back then, as there have been about the new MM. NOT that I am saying that the current manifestation of the MM is the best, but that calling it a cash grab to curb the very thing we were begging them to stop, seems a bit off base. Farming is generally accepted by most devs, but in every game I play that has a way to do it, they have some sort of penalty to keep it from being profitable to drop too far, and I, personally, see it as a way to game the system and take advantage of noobs, or at the least, people that are sufficiently lower than you (whether just in experience/skill, like the old MM, or in equipment AND experience/skill like the current one) in order to have easy wins that pad your Au vault in a way that is, frankly, dishonest. I get it though, morals are not part of it, people have different ways of playing, etc.etc. However, it is not supposed to be easy to get Au. The only ways that make it easy, make the game un-enjoyable for a team of other people. So far, anyway. Maybe an undiscovered way exists that leaves everyone perfectly happy... but as it stands, only the farmer gets anything out of it, at the cost of literally everyone else in the matches they farm in. So, I disagree with the OP, it is not a cash grab. They have other means to do that (think events and bots that cost only event currency... grrrr). I think, as far as the MM, they were being pretty close to honest. The old one was a spaghetti plate of code that was not going to do anything but get worse as time went on and they added things to the game. I believe them when they say it provides more room to tweak and nail down what to do. It does take a long time for each change to completely settle in, and then for us and them to decide if it was enough. Many aspects of each change can't be determined until they have rippled out to every device and people have played enough to find their place. IF they added everything that they could in order to keep the Bad People from doing Bad Things, all at once, the Chaos of the new MM drop would be exponentially worse both in scope and time. JMO, YMMV. |
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Post by Paps on Mar 20, 2017 18:07:12 GMT -5
Does your son have his own account, or is he using yours? I would expect a 7-yr old would not progress beyond the lowest 2 tiers, based on a kid's battlefield awareness and sense of tactics being limited. You'd be surprised. My son made Gold. I was so floored (and so proud), that I immediately bought him a Zeus as a congratulations. :D I'm in Gold League as well. Would you buy me a zeus if I call you Daddy? This is not weird at all, it's a legitimate ploy. |
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☆ CORVUSNEX ☆
Destrier
Posts: 106
Karma: 76
Pilot name: ☆ CORVUSNEX ☆
Platform: Android
Clan: iΔC
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Galahad
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Post by ☆ CORVUSNEX ☆ on Mar 20, 2017 18:44:22 GMT -5
You'd be surprised. My son made Gold. I was so floored (and so proud), that I immediately bought him a Zeus as a congratulations. I'm in Gold League as well. Would you buy me a zeus if I call you Daddy? This is not weird at all, it's a legitimate ploy. No dude, that sounds totally weird. Lol |
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Post by War Child on Mar 20, 2017 19:23:11 GMT -5
My 6-year-old son, who is not spending money to remain competitive, is having more fun and doing better in this MM than the old one. While I personally prefer the old style better, I don't believe this is a "cash grab" move at all. Does he play iOS? It seems the game experiences are quite different between the two platforms. My son (8) plays on iOS and it seems like a kinder, gentler world - he runs Leo / Gareth / Fujin hangar in low silver and does pretty well (around 60% wins). On Android, you can't get out of recruit without seeing full heavy lineups and premium bots. Gold league you will frequently see near max hangars. Android is filled with half hearted jackbuts that drops their hanger to fight noobies with their shiny ancilots that are nearly impossible to kill 1 on 1.While iOS is filled with good hearted honest players that play with each other in their respective leagues. Although that's what I believe.And sadly,I'm in Android,but I play for fun and a good close competition that excites me,win or lose,is one of the best feelings. |
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Post by blastronaut on Mar 20, 2017 19:41:56 GMT -5
Pixonic wants to make money, and changing the game to be more profitable is fine as long as it is done correctly. Treating your playerbase as guinea pigs to test a half-baked MM is something I take issue with.
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Mar 20, 2017 21:30:25 GMT -5
Does your son have his own account, or is he using yours? I would expect a 7-yr old would not progress beyond the lowest 2 tiers, based on a kid's battlefield awareness and sense of tactics being limited. You'd be surprised. My son made Gold. I was so floored (and so proud), that I immediately bought him a Zeus as a congratulations. What I'm hearing here is that I play as well as a talented 6 year old. Thanks Pixonic! |
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Post by Dredd77 on Mar 20, 2017 21:42:00 GMT -5
You'd be surprised. My son made Gold. I was so floored (and so proud), that I immediately bought him a Zeus as a congratulations. What I'm hearing here is that I play as well as a talented 6 year old. Thanks Pixonic! Oi, don't sell my son short, mate. He's sharp as a tack and has played a ton of games. |
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Mar 20, 2017 21:50:21 GMT -5
What I'm hearing here is that I play as well as a talented 6 year old. Thanks Pixonic! Oi, don't sell my son short, mate. He's sharp as a tack and has played a ton of games. I did say talented! ? And since my son is also in Gold 1, though 9yo, I suppose it shouldn't come as any sort of shock. |
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Post by Dredd77 on Mar 20, 2017 22:16:59 GMT -5
Oi, don't sell my son short, mate. He's sharp as a tack and has played a ton of games. I did say talented! ? And since my son is also in Gold 1, though 9yo, I suppose it shouldn't come as any sort of shock. We grow our replacements, don't we? |
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Post by agentfilthy on Mar 21, 2017 5:31:18 GMT -5
Definitely cash motivated changes. Hard to argue against that really. Whether you still enjoy the game or not is irrelevant to why Pix made the changes they did. The objective is ALWAYS to turn a profit. That's numero uno at all times. This isn't just a Pixonic mindset, it's everywhere in the gaming world.
Still the best mech battle game available, but not nearly as fun as it used to be.
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Post by lilryry on Mar 21, 2017 8:18:44 GMT -5
Yup, pix selling out hard and gonna milk this cow for all she's worth and then either run the game into the ground or sell it right before that happens
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Post by Scuzzbopper on Mar 21, 2017 9:11:47 GMT -5
Pixonic wants to make money, and changing the game to be more profitable is fine as long as it is done correctly. Treating your playerbase as guinea pigs to test a half-baked MM is something I take issue with. With a limited resources it is hard to do everything right by everyone in software game development. This isn't Bethesda or Activision or Microsoft. Bugs always creep in. As soon as it hits the street your "test base" suddenly goes from maybe a few hundred to tens of thousands. Yeah, it sucks. Could you imagine if you paid 100$USD to get this software and it had issues? Happens all the time in industry. Now I'm not trying to be an apologist but I'm pretty sure that pix has a pretty good grasp on what they are doing and cash-grabbing isn't one of them. They are following a tried and true model for mobile gaming: people can play for free and grind OR pay to play and get shiny toys faster. As I mentioned there is a modicum of impulse buying in the mix here. |
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Post by suntron on Mar 21, 2017 9:15:56 GMT -5
Yup, pix selling out hard and gonna milk this cow for all she's worth and then either run the game into the ground or sell it right before that happens I don't think Pix are money grabbers. Have you played a supercell game recently? If they ran this game: 1. Dash bot would be out and OP at a cost of 10k gold. Then it would be nefted a month or two later. So people spend then have to spend again to get next OP bot. 2. Leagues would have been in from the start and you could only progress quickly by spending loads. 3. There would be no talk of new maps or play modes just level 13 and 14 bots and weapons at massive costs. 4. You would have to be logging regularly, even at night to progress. All I ask is a bit more gold for progressing up the Leagues. |
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Post by ou812gr8m8 on Mar 21, 2017 9:25:29 GMT -5
Why did it become too hard for your son? Is he mis-matched all the time, or squadded with you and playing in a higher-league all the time?
I disagree they're selling out. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm not interested in progressing rapidly up the leagues... there's not enough reward for the slog, and I'll only meet more competitive people in higher leagues.
There is no giant, "well done, you've won War Robots" at the top of the leagues, so where's the incentive to rapidly progress up the leagues? Why would I need to spend money? It certainly wouldn't be for the small gold rewards.
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Post by Paps on Mar 21, 2017 9:32:20 GMT -5
Sooo, I take it that's a negatory on the gift zeus? ? Daddy Dredd77 |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Mar 21, 2017 9:52:34 GMT -5
The New League System looks like 1 big cash grab to me.
What was once a game that allowed every1 an opportunity EQUALLY for ALL PLAYERS (Both Kids & Adults) to advance at their own pace has now entered the business world of extreme competition for Adults Only. What makes you say that?
So now, if you want to remain competitive at War Robots, you'd better get ready to break out your wallets b/c there is now no such thing as advancing at your own pace. Why not?
i "used to" enjoy this game with my young son Niko (who will be turning 7 in June) and now, he asks me almost every nite "to fight for him" b/c it's too hard for him.
Can Anyone Please Tell Me How a Game We started playing together just after Christmas has become too hard in 1 week?
Now, there's No such thing as allowing your upgrades to occur over time - it's Cash On The Spot or Die ! Why? I still let my upgrades cook as long as they will go, so I can bank more silver and be ready for the next upgrade if possible.
This game was actually pretty good like that - it reminded me of how when i was i child, i would have to wait for something to come in the mail vs today's "push button / instant results" mentality - This was something that even i enjoyed when i'm constantly trying to get him outside to either ride his bike or kick a ball around.
Anyway, all i have to say now is; "Well Done Pixonic - Did your accounting department justify this along the lines of ReCouping Lost Revenue"... Because That's exactly what it is... Making Pilots Pay for Gold vs Having A Chance 2 Make it for yourself. Getting Dailies is a very decent amount of gold for free. I wait till I have all 5 and try to knock them out all at once... it's a shot in the arm of Au, usually. I don't think we are supposed to be expecting to get 10 Au every game... it is a struggle now, to place, for me. If I get first place and the capture bonus I literally dance a jig. Much more satisfying when the win is a hard fought brawl. Stomping on folks far enough below me that they don't have a chance just for Au, doesn't do it for me. (BTW... I am not saying you do that, just that the only way to get 10 Au every time is to be a farmer, and farmers ruin the actual games we play, not to mention the stats.) So I agree... Well done Pix!
(below is a quick Flow-Chart in 4 easy steps of how this all flows downhill) for those of us that fail to see what i'm trying to say:
--> from the Pixonic Accounting Dept wanting to ReCoup Lost Revenue,
--> to Pixonic Administration calling it New Rules of Fairness for the NOOBie,
--> to the Pilot(s) being forced to Level Up (Way Up) beyond their means, <-- Why is anyone forced to upgrade?
--> to the Pilot(s) (and Parents) being forced to Pull Out their Wallet$. <-- Again, why are you forced to do this?
Yep, Sounds Fair to me - more like Fair to Pixonic's Bank Account (in 4 easy Steps).
You know, last week i watched a video entitled something like "The God Bot made me 1M in damage" where i already knew this Pilot was referring to the 1st edition of the Dash Bot.
After watching the video i noticed this Pilot's excellence in shooting accuracy and asked a few simple questions regarding this person's technique and compared it to having an "automated app" b/c this Pilot was "that good".
Then, sometime later, the Moderator of the Forum has the guts to accuse me of cheating? Now Talk about Hypocrisy and The Pot that calls the Kettle "Black".
WHAT DO YOU THINK ?
Pilot(s) PUT PUT Questions in red were not meant to be in any way smart assed... I am truly trying to get a feel for why people feel the way they do when I don't see any of the same things I read about on so many of these posts. I hope you and your boy can figure out a way to keep playing that is fun for both of y'all, truly. I know anyone who doesn't agree that Pix is a money grabbing bloodsucker is instantly an, I think Blast called it, 'apologist', to many around here, but I couldn't care one iota less what Pix thinks about me. I only talk about it from my perspective as a pretty casual player. I think league placement may matter, like has been said, because things seem very settled where I am but may not be at the lower leagues (tankers are a BIG reason this is so... I do think Pix should have more prevention in place to keep this from happening, again, putting some weapon level caps in these leagues would help, but I don't feel any pressure to spend or upgrade too fast, as things are, in this league. I just accept that I will lose some games. I win some, too. It works. The games are so competitive and close now that I love them no matter the results. I stopped caring about placement and play for the game itself. Even if I lose, I still get a bit of Ag, and again, Au will come with dailies. Even the 8 victory one. If I am having a day with a lot of losses, I put the tablet down, do something else, and come back later or the next day. The wins almost always start up again at that point. The losses I'm getting, though, aren't crazy mismatches. They are almost equal level teams that outplay us, especially when the Reds are caring more about beacons than the rest of my team. But that is a player issue, not Pix's. Then there are games like last night. I was trying a few builds out that I have not played before. I am sure I was part of the reason we did not win on a few of those, as I was focused on determining the viability of a few mid-range builds. After looking at the hangars in the results after the matches, I got the impression that several others were doing the same, as there were a lot of low level Puns and Molots in various configs... like they were trying it out with the new mechanics. So, maybe that is Pix's fault for giving us more to play around with and to decide whether or not to spend any time on upgrading and using. But, I am glad they added the buff, quite frankly, since I love MGs so much, and have been, for a while, trying to find places for them in my main hangar. A few days of crazy builds as people figure out if they want to use them or not, is cool with me. But I digress. |
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Post by blastronaut on Mar 21, 2017 10:11:18 GMT -5
Pixonic wants to make money, and changing the game to be more profitable is fine as long as it is done correctly. Treating your playerbase as guinea pigs to test a half-baked MM is something I take issue with. With a limited resources it is hard to do everything right by everyone in software game development. This isn't Bethesda or Activision or Microsoft. Bugs always creep in. As soon as it hits the street your "test base" suddenly goes from maybe a few hundred to tens of thousands. Yeah, it sucks. Could you imagine if you paid 100$USD to get this software and it had issues? Happens all the time in industry. Now I'm not trying to be an apologist but I'm pretty sure that pix has a pretty good grasp on what they are doing and cash-grabbing isn't one of them. They are following a tried and true model for mobile gaming: people can play for free and grind OR pay to play and get shiny toys faster. As I mentioned there is a modicum of impulse buying in the mix here. I hear you. But I think a gradeschooler could've anticipated the problems that launched with the new matchmaker. It's a real zero-effort item at the core of their game mechanic. |
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popsicleandhammer
GI. Patton
Posts: 134
Karma: 75
Pilot name: Popsicle&Hammer
Platform: Android
Favorite robot: Rog
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Post by popsicleandhammer on Mar 21, 2017 10:41:40 GMT -5
I don't know man. I've not spent a dime on this game but I've got five slots and two Au items (a pair of Orkans). I feel very competitive in mid silver (Android). Yes, the competition stacked up a bit after the change, but I just saw that as evidence that MY skills were not up to snuff.
If you're getting beat, you can do the easy thing, and buy better equipment, or you can do the difficult thing and grow as a player. My weapon and bot levels haven't significantly changed in the last couple of months, but my damage average is up and I'm meching out less often. Plus, I'm generally having more fun, since my matches tend to now be fairly well balanced instead of total blowouts.
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