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Post by mijapi300 on Mar 17, 2017 11:32:20 GMT -5
I absolutely love it. For the record I've played one game so far. I got first on the losing team and lost 12 points. While it's hard to look at, it's "right". Brings me back to my old Halo 2 days. If you win, you go up. If you lose, you go down. That's how it should be.
I also like that they added the tanking protection, where you can't drop below bronze league. Still sucks for Bronzers, but you can't win em all.
Keep up be good work Pixonic, and keep up the good work here mods.
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Post by Why? on Mar 17, 2017 11:48:08 GMT -5
That said, I am still losing trophies in Recruit tho. Remember that "keep ratings to <this> for 5 matches to advance to next league?" It keeps getting reset cuz I lose trophies at a loss
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Post by mijapi300 on Mar 17, 2017 11:54:41 GMT -5
That said, I am still losing trophies in Recruit tho. Remember that "keep ratings to <this> for 5 matches to advance to next league?" It keeps getting reset cuz I lose trophies at a loss I think it might be like that until you get out of Recruit league. Not positive but that would make sense. |
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Post by mijapi300 on Mar 17, 2017 11:55:44 GMT -5
Otherwise newbies would only get 20-30 games before being tossed to the wolves.
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Post by Replicant on Mar 17, 2017 12:09:47 GMT -5
This setup is a lot less friendly to lone wolves and people who play casually. It would have been better to either give damage-equivalent points for beacon capture or run a damage scale and a beacon scale side by side; net the results to your league rating.
I can see non-squad match-ups further degenerating: if a player feels his team is lacking, bailing withing the first few minutes and trying for another group looks a lot more rational than sinking 10-15 minutes into turning a -18 into a -12.
If you're going to have an individual league score, you need a score based on your individual contribution. Your individual damage percentage, number of beacon flips and beacon caps does this. Its not perfect, but I've yet to see a better alternative.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 12:14:42 GMT -5
10-15 minutes into turning a -18 into a -12. What game are you playing? Most matches last about 5 minutes. Rarely get to 10. There's certainly no 15. As to squads, I've not seen any in ages. Out of the last 4 games, I've seen 3. 2 of them lost. |
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Post by mechtout on Mar 17, 2017 12:16:32 GMT -5
Stay in the fight, a lot of my recent games spelled red wins, but turned blue in the last mins for some thrilling wins. Grab your three beacons and pound those reds
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Post by Replicant on Mar 17, 2017 12:25:35 GMT -5
10-15 minutes into turning a -18 into a -12. What game are you playing? Most matches last about 5 minutes. Rarely get to 10. There's certainly no 15. As to squads, I've not seen any in ages. Out of the last 4 games, I've seen 3. 2 of them lost. Most of my matches last about 10 minutes, but moving the timescale down doesn't change the point. They need a reward system that encourages a nash equilibrium. This new system still fundamentally encourages damage over beacon capping. If you prefer beacon capping over damage you still get lower rewards (or larger penalties), and you still have the free-rider problem. Beacons matter. What this new system does is encourage squadding so that you can eliminate the uncertainty behind who is going to take one for the team and go cap beacons. |
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Post by flounder on Mar 17, 2017 12:37:29 GMT -5
Just played the new system. My team lost, had 2 ditchers on my team, lost 12 cups, I had the most damage of all the players and one less beacon than the most capped.
I've played online games for 20+ years and you are asking a lot for team play on a public server.
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Post by Replicant on Mar 17, 2017 12:38:22 GMT -5
Stay in the fight, a lot of my recent games spelled red wins, but turned blue in the last mins for some thrilling wins. Grab your three beacons and pound those reds I'm all for it. I like playing the game and have basically given up on the league system. The best games are always the come-from-behind and last minute victories. My point is the incentive for staying in (beyond the enjoyment of playing) is at most 6 points. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 13:24:36 GMT -5
Just played the new system. My team lost, had 2 ditchers on my team, lost 12 cups, I had the most damage of all the players and one less beacon than the most capped. I've played online games for 20+ years and you are asking a lot for team play on a public server. This. Honestly it's just a knee jerk solution to a problem they still really haven't fully analyzed. This isn't all that complicated, but trying to make it happen through of series of tweaks isn't the right approach. They need to lay out the desired future state in terms of game play and player behavior, then map that to the current state and identify the gaps, then develop solutions with a full appreciation of the intended and potential unintended consequences. |
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Post by cakeordeath on Mar 17, 2017 14:15:03 GMT -5
I just put in 7 games (3 solo and 4 with a few clan mates, no comms). First impression, I really like the impact on gameplay. People are trying to win again and fighting to the end. All 7 games were exciting and several had dramatic reversals. It's suddenly all about beacon control instead of damage farming.
I have no clue if I will like what the system does to my league score but I really like that it appears to be motivating players to win instead of worrying about their damage ranking. I'm having more fun competing against the reds than I was competing against the blues before.
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Post by boomsplat on Mar 17, 2017 14:34:32 GMT -5
I'm disliking squad play on the new system....solo is solo but the MM still has problems coming up with decent 6v6 squad matches. Just lost 3 in a row for -45 points.....way too f'ing drastic so now I'm going to have to watch how much I squad.....just the opposite of what it seems like Pixo is trulying to do by encouraging squad play.
I racked up a nice bunch of points solo and then gave a chunk back squading....another reason to play less now. I'm just frustrated with the changes so it might be time to sunset this damn game.
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Post by ΜØØSE on Mar 17, 2017 14:44:37 GMT -5
I'm disliking squad play on the new system....solo is solo but the MM still has problems coming up with decent 6v6 squad matches. Just lost 3 in a row for -45 points.....way too f'ing drastic so now I'm going to have to watch how much I squad.....just the opposite of what it seems like Pixo is trulying to do by encouraging squad play. I racked up a nice bunch of points solo and then gave a chunk back squading....another reason to play less now. I'm just frustrated with the changes so it might be time to sunset this damn game. Why do you care about points? |
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Post by IStandAlone on Mar 17, 2017 14:55:23 GMT -5
Otherwise newbies would only get 20-30 games before being tossed to the wolves. I feel like pretty much every match now, I'm almost always up against people with bots and/or weapons 2 or 3 levels above mine. |
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Post by pewpew on Mar 17, 2017 14:56:02 GMT -5
What game are you playing? Most matches last about 5 minutes. Rarely get to 10. There's certainly no 15. As to squads, I've not seen any in ages. Out of the last 4 games, I've seen 3. 2 of them lost. Most of my matches last about 10 minutes, but moving the timescale down doesn't change the point. They need a reward system that encourages a nash equilibrium. This new system still fundamentally encourages damage over beacon capping. If you prefer beacon capping over damage you still get lower rewards (or larger penalties), and you still have the free-rider problem. Beacons matter. What this new system does is encourage squadding so that you can eliminate the uncertainty behind who is going to take one for the team and go cap beacons. I totally agree. For the people who don't see squads, I assume you are not playing in top tier? I had issues with the previous point system, but it made going solo a viable option. Now winrate matters a lot more, and gives a huge advantage to TT squads. At the top, MM cannot often find a suitable opposing team. Now point awards is basically a loose predictor of win rate. The whole original idea of the ELO system was to separate the metric from win rate. While this change has encouraged team mates to get beacons more, I don't see it as a net positive. |
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Post by boomsplat on Mar 17, 2017 15:05:17 GMT -5
I'm disliking squad play on the new system....solo is solo but the MM still has problems coming up with decent 6v6 squad matches. Just lost 3 in a row for -45 points.....way too f'ing drastic so now I'm going to have to watch how much I squad.....just the opposite of what it seems like Pixo is trulying to do by encouraging squad play. I racked up a nice bunch of points solo and then gave a chunk back squading....another reason to play less now. I'm just frustrated with the changes so it might be time to sunset this damn game. Why do you care about points? Because I would like to advance in league play. I started at Expert 3 and climbed to Expert 1 last week would like to make it into Masters in April. I don't care about the gold...I just like the idea of increasing competition as my bots get stronger. is there an issue with wanting to gain points? |
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Post by IStandAlone on Mar 17, 2017 15:05:44 GMT -5
While this change has encouraged team mates to get beacons more, I don't see it as a net positive. I haven't played yet today, but I think it will be positive overall, at-least in my league (silver 1). I have lost a lot of matches simply because people didn't cap enough beacons. I had a match last night, that came down to 3 on 1 and we still lost because we hadn't capped enough beacons early on. |
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Post by Thunderkiss on Mar 17, 2017 15:06:54 GMT -5
I'm disliking squad play on the new system....solo is solo but the MM still has problems coming up with decent 6v6 squad matches. Just lost 3 in a row for -45 points.....way too f'ing drastic so now I'm going to have to watch how much I squad.....just the opposite of what it seems like Pixo is trulying to do by encouraging squad play. I racked up a nice bunch of points solo and then gave a chunk back squading....another reason to play less now. I'm just frustrated with the changes so it might be time to sunset this damn game. Why do you care about points? because this game, by its very nature, is competetive? not sure why you'd ask such a foolish question. |
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Post by missleboatssuck on Mar 17, 2017 15:13:29 GMT -5
Ok, that was a frustrated player. The real issue is that switching up, bots/weps to compensate for changes take a very long time. Players who've been playing for 2 years likely have leveled up hangar options. Newer players like me don't. We geared up with the weps that were good when we started playing. As Pix shifts things around, newer player have a disadvantage as their hangars don't have options. By the time we switch up a new meta setup will be in place and we'll start all over.
So, buff plasmas with 1000m with 100m splash and I'm good. No need to work on my hangar. Lol
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Post by whatttupG on Mar 17, 2017 15:15:59 GMT -5
Nice to see someone is happy, I think this sucks. Server lag is so bad you can't even stay connected to your own squad, random play is a joke right now and the idea that the new point schedule is bring us all back to teams and beacons... I don't see it, sorry. Losing ground by the day and losing interest as well, it's hard to play when you can't even connect. Last game had 4 breaks in it that appeared to get everyone because while frozen you somehow can still hear the game continue in the background. When you hear silence eventually it would seem to me, that all 12.. or 10 really.. are all staring at their frozen screen too.
I read thru some of the comments on the official facebook page... holy cow... more love than your neighbor after slamming the better part of a case.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 15:19:18 GMT -5
Ok, that was a frustrated player. The real issue is that switching up, bots/weps to compensate for changes take a very long time. Players who've been playing for 2 years likely have leveled up hangar options. Newer players like me don't. We geared up with the weps that were good when we started playing. As Pix shifts things around, newer player have a disadvantage as their hangars don't have options. By the time we switch up a new meta setup will be in place and we'll start all over. Yes, I know this pain. Pix can change the rules of the game with the swipe of a keyboard, yet show zero charity when it comes to helping players adjust their hangars to those changes. If one more 「fluffernutter」ing Pix rep sends me a "just keep playing your main hangar" response to issues they intentionally chose to create, I'm going to detonate. |
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Post by ΜØØSE on Mar 17, 2017 15:40:09 GMT -5
Why do you care about points? Because I would like to advance in league play. I started at Expert 3 and climbed to Expert 1 last week would like to make it into Masters in April. I don't care about the gold...I just like the idea of increasing competition as my bots get stronger. is there an issue with wanting to gain points? Not an issue, it was a sincere question. I've always been an odd duck in that I'm very competitive (growing up with three brothers will do that) and love a good, fair contest. It really forces me to improve my skills, and helps me build respect for others. But status doesn't matter as much to me. I don't want to be the best, but I want to beat the best. The contest in itself is the thrill. The awards after just don't matter to me. I like the new MM system, because it puts me in better, more consistently competitive matchups than before. And as I improve, so does my competition. Perfect! This should continue to be fun, because they have dialed in a flexible system. But that is a result of the MM, not the leagues. The leagues are a status symbol. There is a little gold there when stepping up, but not much, and I don't need it. I'll take my silver from the matches. But if it's important to another player's pride to have a label of a higher league, and they get a sense of accomplishment from it, I'm happy for them. So when I see people upset about losing points, I'm interested in why. Truthfully, I'm probably the weird one here. |
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Post by ΜØØSE on Mar 17, 2017 15:43:02 GMT -5
Why do you care about points? because this game, by its very nature, is competetive? not sure why you'd ask such a foolish question. It was a sincere question, see above |
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Post by mechtout on Mar 17, 2017 15:58:42 GMT -5
Because I would like to advance in league play. I started at Expert 3 and climbed to Expert 1 last week would like to make it into Masters in April. I don't care about the gold...I just like the idea of increasing competition as my bots get stronger. is there an issue with wanting to gain points? Not an issue, it was a sincere question. I've always been an odd duck in that I'm very competitive (growing up with three brothers will do that) and love a good, fair contest. It really forces me to improve my skills, and helps me build respect for others. But status doesn't matter as much to me. I don't want to be the best, but I want to beat the best. The contest in itself is the thrill. The awards after just don't matter to me. I like the new MM system, because it puts me in better, more consistently competitive matchups than before. And as I improve, so does my competition. Perfect! This should continue to be fun, because they have dialed in a flexible system. But that is a result of the MM, not the leagues. The leagues are a status symbol. There is a little gold there when stepping up, but not much, and I don't need it. I'll take my silver from the matches. But if it's important to another player's pride to have a label of a higher league, and they get a sense of accomplishment from it, I'm happy for them. So when I see people upset about losing points, I'm interested in why. Truthfully, I'm probably the weird one here. why do people level up your weapons or bots? why do you want to play and beat the best players in the game? why do people look for easter eggs in games? everyone sets their next goals to conquer in games that they like, reaching the next league level would be an obvious one. for some maybe its staying in lower leagues and beating the top players. |
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Post by boomsplat on Mar 17, 2017 16:34:31 GMT -5
Because I would like to advance in league play. I started at Expert 3 and climbed to Expert 1 last week would like to make it into Masters in April. I don't care about the gold...I just like the idea of increasing competition as my bots get stronger. is there an issue with wanting to gain points? Not an issue, it was a sincere question. I've always been an odd duck in that I'm very competitive (growing up with three brothers will do that) and love a good, fair contest. It really forces me to improve my skills, and helps me build respect for others. But status doesn't matter as much to me. I don't want to be the best, but I want to beat the best. The contest in itself is the thrill. The awards after just don't matter to me. I like the new MM system, because it puts me in better, more consistently competitive matchups than before. And as I improve, so does my competition. Perfect! This should continue to be fun, because they have dialed in a flexible system. But that is a result of the MM, not the leagues. The leagues are a status symbol. There is a little gold there when stepping up, but not much, and I don't need it. I'll take my silver from the matches. But if it's important to another player's pride to have a label of a higher league, and they get a sense of accomplishment from it, I'm happy for them. So when I see people upset about losing points, I'm interested in why. Truthfully, I'm probably the weird one here. No problem....and it is not being upset with losing points it is just yet another change and then we'll discover some other unintended consequence. I'm in the same mindset as you, but the league provides an external view of your status instead of just your perception....before leagues, it was harder to figure out how easy or hard a match was. Not saying that the new league ratings make it perfect, but it does give you a pretty quick idea of how good your squad was and how good the red squad was. I'm not big on sitting there analyzing each match outcome for hours...I can now get a quick look at key players in both squad and by their league rating getting a good idea of the match difficulty. |
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Post by dms12008 on Mar 17, 2017 16:58:17 GMT -5
I was going to make my own rant about this but this is a good place to do it-
To everyone saying 'the new system is dumb bc I lost too many points when I played matches' I'm sad for you that u don't understand how it works but I'm happy for you in the sense that the 'problem' u think is there is actually not. Wins and losses average the same league point differential, which means as long as u remain the same effectiveness as a player, u remain in the same league, which makes perfect sense.
'I lost 3 squads in a row for a total of -45 points, then I played solo and won points. Therefore the new point system is flawed' <I'm sorry but this is so unfounded it makes me laugh and cry at the same time. If u went up against tough opponents multiple times it means peeps on your team have too high win%, or your squad itself is unbalanced. If u just keep playing it will balance out... DUH lol sry I hope no one thinks this is a personal attack. I'm just expressing myself in what I consider an appropriate internet forum tone.
To everyone bickering about how the point system doesn't truly reflect the value u bring to your team strategically- it's not supposed to b that way- points should b a reflection of how much money you've given to pixonic. Otherwise the game could not continue existing, because instead of focusing on how to get points everyone would actually focus on strategy (rn some people focus on points and some focus on winning. If u eliminate the ability to prioritize either one or the other, it limits possible ways to play, WHICH ELIMINATES NEED FOR GREATER VARIETY OF GEAR which does not motivate sales). I'm not saying it wouldn't b more fun that way, I'm just saying the idea that the point system MUST reflect skill is not taking into account that players have to b motivated to spend money, not just win.
I have no problem w the new point system, but I am disappointed that pix listened to all the whiners and made this change. Now the point system is based on what a bunch of losers THOUGHT was better for them but it's just bc they r too stupid to realize how well balanced it was in the first place. Capping beacons IS useless if u don't have the firepower to remove all reds from the respective beacon area.
Yes yes bring on the hate and tell me I'm a jerk and flag my post lol
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Post by googleme on Mar 17, 2017 17:18:42 GMT -5
Pix needs to leave everything alone. Stop changing things every few weeks please. We get used to one system and they change it again. Once again, winning is (amost) everything. I hate that. Players should rewarded for being good pilots.
You do not control who you will matched up with or how they play. You have very little control if your team wins or looses. You are one of 10 unevenly matched players on one of many different maps. Your play is much less influential than the other players or the situations you are put into. Now we get penalized because we were randomly paired with a loosing team? I was just starting to like the new MM.
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Post by IStandAlone on Mar 17, 2017 17:59:25 GMT -5
This is my first match under the new system, and I think the change made a positive influence. People actually tried to control the beacons.  |
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Post by whatttupG on Mar 17, 2017 19:03:15 GMT -5
I was going to make my own rant about this but this is a good place to do it- To everyone saying 'the new system is dumb bc I lost too many points when I played matches' I'm sad for you that u don't understand how it works but I'm happy for you in the sense that the 'problem' u think is there is actually not. Wins and losses average the same league point differential, which means as long as u remain the same effectiveness as a player, u remain in the same league, which makes perfect sense. 'I lost 3 squads in a row for a total of -45 points, then I played solo and won points. Therefore the new point system is flawed' <I'm sorry but this is so unfounded it makes me laugh and cry at the same time. If u went up against tough opponents multiple times it means peeps on your team have too high win%, or your squad itself is unbalanced. If u just keep playing it will balance out... DUH lol sry I hope no one thinks this is a personal attack. I'm just expressing myself in what I consider an appropriate internet forum tone. To everyone bickering about how the point system doesn't truly reflect the value u bring to your team strategically- it's not supposed to b that way- points should b a reflection of how much money you've given to pixonic. Otherwise the game could not continue existing, because instead of focusing on how to get points everyone would actually focus on strategy (rn some people focus on points and some focus on winning. If u eliminate the ability to prioritize either one or the other, it limits possible ways to play, WHICH ELIMINATES NEED FOR GREATER VARIETY OF GEAR which does not motivate sales). I'm not saying it wouldn't b more fun that way, I'm just saying the idea that the point system MUST reflect skill is not taking into account that players have to b motivated to spend money, not just win. I have no problem w the new point system, but I am disappointed that pix listened to all the whiners and made this change. Now the point system is based on what a bunch of losers THOUGHT was better for them but it's just bc they r too stupid to realize how well balanced it was in the first place. Capping beacons IS useless if u don't have the firepower to remove all reds from the respective beacon area. Yes yes bring on the hate and tell me I'm a jerk and flag my post lol I'm pretty sure I can add or subtract, I feel pretty good about my general ability to count but it doesn't seem OK to dislike this system with you. Is it OK if we get the math but still hate it too? |
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