Styro
Destrier
Posts: 86
Karma: 168
Pilot name: Styro
Platform: Android
Clan: GHOSTWARRIORs
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Rogatka
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Post by Styro on Mar 3, 2017 11:24:55 GMT -5
I see the dilemma here as being us and the way we look at the league system. First of all, it isn't necessarily a show of skill, that's why people are left feeling like they "don't get the credit they deserve". People tend to have this sense of entitlement. That arrogance which makes them believe for whatever reason that they are owed something, like the "credit they deserve" for beacon capping. Someone who has never played the game could probably do more damage than me in a match if you gave them a TT hangar and told them to go kill ?poo-poo?, that's just the nature of the game. Now of course with skill and experience a person can make much more efficient use of their bots and do more damage despite having less. So making damage the key to matchmaking is mostly a regulator, not a measure of skill. The damage is a regulator to keep people where they need to be. A lower skill player with TT hangar deserves a higher league simply due to the capability his hangar has to deal damage regardless of skill. If he runs blindly towards the enemy and mechs out every match, but in doing so racks up 750k consistently, then by all means he deserves to match with someone working their ?bum-bum? off to get that equal damage. That is exactly what Pixonic wants, they created a better motivator for people to upgrade, you essentially need to either pay or work your ?bum-bum? off to get to League of Legends. Now about the beacons. You think capping is deserving of more league points, for what? As I explained, and let me know if you didn't grasp the concept, the league system isn't a measure of skill but instead it is a regulator of damage. You still get gold rewards and in fact, from my recent light bots hangar test, farming for gold is actually almost as easy as it was before. You're just going against people more on your own level now. Stop looking at Leagues as a skill measurement and you will stop feeling like beacon caps aren't gaining the recognition they deserve. If they wanted to do that they would have made it run off of win percentage purely instead of damage. (I do agree that this has created battles where the majority heads blindly towards each other seeking to fulfill a damage mission objective, which is a problem) I agree that this post brings up some good points regarding the motivation of Pixonic. I take issue with the categorization of those complaining about the league point calculation as "entitled" and "arrogant". I don't really care about league points other than hoping that a higher rating means better competition and more competitive battles. My real complaint about the league point system is what you brought up in the last line of your post - what it does to the matches. People respond to incentives. Currently there is more incentive to do damage and ignore beacons. I think that makes battles worse. It may also get new players into bad habits where they completely ignore beacons in favor of damage. It leads to perverse situations where bots walk past beacons without capturing them, and where if we are down a beacon or two they just attack more wildly instead of trying to take beacons back. I want the incentives to match the win conditions so that players are motivated into better play. |
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Post by VivaLaResistance on Mar 3, 2017 11:36:36 GMT -5
It's sort of played now like a lot of the test servers are.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Mar 3, 2017 13:02:30 GMT -5
I don't know what to think at this point.
First, a question... is it confirmed through Pix that Leagues either do or don't affect your matches? Or is MM still independent of that?
My current view of things:
I had 4 good qualifying games and one crappy one, and ended up in Silver 1, thinking I should be in Gold, according to the similar performance of my bots with clanmates that I know are in Gold. Now, I am seeing some of the best matches since the MM changed. I mean, truly well balanced sides. I tend to be on the low end of the weapon and bot levels, but I still do pretty well... top 3 is normal. Sure, I see a diamond league player occasionally, but overall they are great games. I am running bots that I like to run that others say are impossible to use in the leagues if you want to do well... btw. From Rogs to Natty to Boa, I don't have the issues that I hear about as far as being relegated to using the meta builds, only. Now, if beacons are added to the mix, since I am usually one of the few to make an effort to get them when running solo... I will skyrocket up through this league and be ready to challenge soon. I don't want to if that means that my competition will be harder... not yet. I want more upgrades and more time deciding on what builds to take above Level 10. So, if it is based on that league score, which I thought it was... then I am all about leaving it to damage dealing only.
I think what Slow Reflexes was saying was: Leagues reflect the level of competition you will be better matched with, so if you are in a league that is too much for you, then getting even higher placement from something that does not relate to the performance you are capable of, is NOT going to be good. You will end up outclassed in every match and drop right back down if you move up. Damage dealt is a good metric to match folks with (as long as they are honest and not tanking, obviously) so if the Leagues are based on damage, and matches are based on your league, then it really is better to not get anything more from beacons.
However, the fact that players (the weakest link in all this, from tanking to this issue) ignore everything but damage to get the league points is still an unfortunate by-product of this system that needs to be addressed. If no one cares about winning... 「whiskey tango foxtrot」 is the point? So, I am of two minds. Let me do well and stay in the league that I fit the best in, but don't ignore the fact that winning is still the goal! Maybe more league points awarded to beacon caps is not the answer... but... what is? More Au for cappers like has been thrown around lately? Or like was said above... no points for the losing side? Maybe the top 2 losers just don't lose or gain points at all, while the last 3 lose then like they now do...
IDK... but there is definitely need for some reason for folks to care about beacons. Right now, leagues provide a nice boost in Au as you progress... that is, most likely, as big of a draw as the desire for many to be the best of whatever they do and just want to climb the ladder. So, personally, I think having an increased payout of Au for the winning side for caps, as well as providing a small payout of Au for the losing side's top beacon cappers, instead of league points (or Hell, maybe in addition to them, so that you keep the same focus on league progression but incorporate winning into it in such a way that one can still be rewarded for capping without skyrocketing up and being able to progress in the leagues, win or lose, if you are ready to...) is a possible step.
Or, maybe I am just cofrused and need a nappy and a blanky and a lullaby.
See y'all on the field!
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Post by VivaLaResistance on Mar 3, 2017 13:26:44 GMT -5
I tend to be on the low end of the weapon and bot levels, but I still do pretty well... top 3 is normal. That means you're doing more damage with less... or more so, equal damage with less. It will stay like that all the way to the top as you keep upgrading the damage output capabilities of your hangar. Eventually you can be a LEGEND! lol I notice that I've been faced with opponents that absorb a lot more damage than they used to, my weapons definitely haven't gotten weaker. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Mar 3, 2017 13:42:03 GMT -5
I tend to be on the low end of the weapon and bot levels, but I still do pretty well... top 3 is normal. That means you're doing more damage with less... or more so, equal damage with less. It will stay like that all the way to the top as you keep upgrading the damage output capabilities of your hangar. Eventually you can be a LEGEND! lol I notice that I've been faced with opponents that absorb a lot more damage than they used to, my weapons definitely haven't gotten weaker. Well, I am already a legend in my own mind... so don't need a game to confirm it  But, as to your observation... since bot levels don't affect MM anymore, it makes sense that you are facing folks with more HP that are in similar damage output ranges since more folk are going for higher bot levels now. Plus, the last update had a HP re-balance that had an effect of raising the HP of some bots in their middle levels, so you may be seeing the effect of that. Plus, Leo and Vitz and Natty have all had a HP buff recently... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 16:25:20 GMT -5
Currently there is more incentive to do damage and ignore beacons...It leads to perverse situations where bots walk past beacons without capturing them, and where if we are down a beacon or two they just attack more wildly instead of trying to take beacons back. This x10.. Now, when they fall behind on beacons there's no effort put into winning, only into frantically doling out damage to earn league points before the bar expires. I want the incentives to match the win conditions so that players are motivated into better play. There has to be something other than damage involved in the league rankings and rewards, because there's something other than damage involved with winning. |
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