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Post by ou812gr8m8 on Feb 24, 2017 11:52:11 GMT -5
I like the idea... it's simple and elegant.
I'd also like to have multiple hangars each with their own league score, so we can have the option of running different bots. I guess the "lower-league hangars" would have to be re-tested if bots or weapons are changed, but it's an idea to counter one of the reasons for tanking mentioned above.
Also, more hangars = more robots + weapons = more upgrade expense, so Pix should win too.
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Post by launchpad on Feb 24, 2017 12:21:22 GMT -5
Owh... so you are the hero, making suggestion for the benefit of everyone, using your OWN JUDGEMENT.... Lol Using common sense and reasoning. This actually doesn't benefit me at all, because I've experienced no problems with the new MM. I haven't heard anyone refer to something so trivial as "heroic" since the last time I saw my six year old niece. Err..... It was sarcasm.... So Mr. Hero thank you for your thoughtfull insight. Really kind of you to spend time and energy to find a solution to a matters that's considered a problem by some whiners. Surely the community here should applaud your heroic enthusiasm....
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Post by mijapi300 on Feb 24, 2017 12:35:44 GMT -5
Using common sense and reasoning. This actually doesn't benefit me at all, because I've experienced no problems with the new MM. I haven't heard anyone refer to something so trivial as "heroic" since the last time I saw my six year old niece. Err..... It was sarcasm.... So Mr. Hero thank you for your thoughtfull insight. Really kind of you to spend time and energy to find a solution to a matters that's considered a problem by some whiners. Surely the community here should applaud your heroic enthusiasm.... Is the barista at your local coffee shop a hero in your eyes? Or perhaps the dog that is trained well enough not to crap on neighbors lawns? I personally don't care about tanking. It doesn't affect that much from my perspective. A 5v6 or 4v6 match is not unwinnable. The "whiners" as you put it, are completely justified in their griefs. No matchmaking system should provide an easy method of seal clubbing. The most ideal solution would be a more complex matchmaker that takes several factors into account. But the easiest solution to the current system would be to make tanking a lot harder to do.
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Post by miatahead on Feb 24, 2017 12:59:58 GMT -5
Remember, Pix read the wiki and this is what the wiki wanted.
Clubbing doesn't sound so bad now, does it?
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Post by mijapi300 on Feb 24, 2017 13:08:11 GMT -5
Remember, Pix read the wiki and this is what the wiki wanted. Clubbing doesn't sound so bad now, does it? In my opinion (as a lower leveled player), clubbing was by far worse than this, and the comparison isn't even close. Clubbing occurred in almost every single match as a new player. There were 1-2 mag geps every single game. The worst part? You could not do anything about it. It was impossible to avoid. At least in this system, if you find yourself outmatched constantly, you can alter your strategy and put yourself in a lower tier where you can be competitive. I've played 50+ games below 100k dmg, 50+ between 100-200k, 50+ between 200-300k, and about 20 games from 300-400k. I haven't seen a single top tier bot in a single match. There simply isn't a problem of clubbing in the lower levels anymore. Tanking is a problem, which is easily fixed. But clubbing isn't.
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Post by miatahead on Feb 24, 2017 13:47:09 GMT -5
Clubbing was worse because they didn't address the problem - Geps and level 30 players playing with noobs. They saw the complaint as an opportunity to change MM, to affect all players and all players experience. I can tell you MM is worse up top now than it was before.
Fixing tanking by either creating a 'cost' to play or a 'penalty' for drops will kill the game and will not fix tanking. There is no solution to tanking. You can just sit there and do nothing. Pix can disconnect (due to interruption or no capacity) and what you get a 'penalty' or lose what you 'paid' to play? Will immediately kill the game and I guarantee you MM will be worse because there won't be enough players of equal standing to make quality matches.
Frankly, I like good matches, but I don't want every match to be a 10 min grindfest. I need to grind for silver, which under their revenue model requires you to play match after match. With constant 10 min grindfests, you tire. Under this league MM, most matches are complete landslides. So you don't even have enough time to earn silver. Which is what they want.
I bought premium 5 days before v2.6 rolled out because I needed silver to max my hanger and was getting about 400-500k or more silver per match. Now with v2.6, I struggle to get 300k silver per match. This is reflected in my average damage going down nearly 100k since v2.6. Other top players have commented to me something similar happening to them.
Flat out, its a poor MM revamp to the playing experience. I mean, come on, the way to exploit it is to just simply tank which requires zero thought or imagination? How stupid can Pix be to not see the problem and not see it as a problem?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 13:58:42 GMT -5
Clubbing occurred in almost every single match as a new player. There were 1-2 mag geps every single game. The worst part? You could not do anything about it. It was impossible to avoid I never saw it at that level and I've only been around, since last fall. Three days after I started I was presented with an offer to buy a Gep and get 30 days of a little gold miner bot for $4.99. I bought that, stuck some Punishers on it, and as soon as I could I loaded with with Pinatas. Instantly I was able to fight back. Rarely did I see full clans. Most often it was 1-2 solo clubbers, as you've noted. Still, even those solos weren't in every match. I think I saw a squad of them a handful of times total and then I just dropped. By the time I got my 4/6 Boas I was already focusing my efforts on them whenever they were spotted. More often than not the Geps seen right at the start were not followed by a full hangar. Most seemed to have just a couple. Take them down and the match was normal. Also, many many clubbers had very little tactical skill. It was common to see them just charging at everything with their finger locked on fire. That's just not a hard combat style to counter. Don't get me wrong, there were some very good Gep fighters, but they weren't the standard. The Aphid Geps were the most brutal IMO. Like everything, not all of them were particularly skilled, but wow, someone that was very good with them could devastate an entire team with a single bot. Hangar not required. I know this, because I did it myself many times with a 1/10 Aphid Gep. I think people have magnified the Gep problem due to a few crushing experiences and just threw their hands up way too early. There were plenty of threads about people just quitting when they saw a Gep drop in (Just to note: Many of these same people are now whining about 'tanking' after spewing nonsense about the nobility of dropping when they saw a Gep). Gep clubbers really did not have that great an impact on me. My overall point, people were able to counter them and they weren't impossible deal to with.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 14:28:29 GMT -5
It's been fixed. Really a non issue. Don't believe me? Tank and see what happens.
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Post by mijapi300 on Feb 24, 2017 15:16:20 GMT -5
With skill and tactical ability, they were possible to deal with. What I intended to get across was that they were impossible to avoid. I joined the game about a week before the new MM. So I didn't have the time to grow my hangar to 4/6 boas yet (which would've taken me out of the bottom tier and not be applicable at all to what I was saying). In the new MM you can, entirely on your own, completely avoid clubbers even being in your matches. Granted you can say the same thing about this as you can about your argument for clubbing. Not all new players will know better, and they will feel they're stuck getting picked on.
There isn't really a way to satisfy everyone. I think this MM more satisfies the masses, but it doesn't satisfy the regulars and high level players (who make up almost the entire community on the thread). I think that contributes to the heavy lean of the general conversation towards favoring the old system. Because it worked better for higher tiers and clubbers. And let's be honest, 90% of the users on this forum are either fit in one of or both of those categories, so the new MM hurt them.
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Post by launchpad on Feb 24, 2017 16:39:07 GMT -5
Err..... It was sarcasm.... So Mr. Hero thank you for your thoughtfull insight. Really kind of you to spend time and energy to find a solution to a matters that's considered a problem by some whiners. Surely the community here should applaud your heroic enthusiasm.... Is the barista at your local coffee shop a hero in your eyes? Or perhaps the dog that is trained well enough not to crap on neighbors lawns? I personally don't care about tanking. It doesn't affect that much from my perspective. A 5v6 or 4v6 match is not unwinnable. The "whiners" as you put it, are completely justified in their griefs. No matchmaking system should provide an easy method of seal clubbing. The most ideal solution would be a more complex matchmaker that takes several factors into account. But the easiest solution to the current system would be to make tanking a lot harder to do. What a wise thing to type by the person claiming doesn't care. A pity that a hero is a hyppocrite. Maybe pixo would hire you as PR? Or your title in the forum changed to be "defender of the innocence"? Lol
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 17:08:58 GMT -5
Biggest complainers are hidden seal clubbers. They can't compete with the new MM. frankly I like the new MM. they set their bots X/y and expended z wins. I'm ? lol
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Post by mijapi300 on Feb 24, 2017 17:18:53 GMT -5
Is the barista at your local coffee shop a hero in your eyes? Or perhaps the dog that is trained well enough not to crap on neighbors lawns? I personally don't care about tanking. It doesn't affect that much from my perspective. A 5v6 or 4v6 match is not unwinnable. The "whiners" as you put it, are completely justified in their griefs. No matchmaking system should provide an easy method of seal clubbing. The most ideal solution would be a more complex matchmaker that takes several factors into account. But the easiest solution to the current system would be to make tanking a lot harder to do. What a wise thing to type by the person claiming doesn't care. A pity that a hero is a hyppocrite. Maybe pixo would hire you as PR? Or your title in the forum changed to be "defender of the innocence"? Lol A person can be aware of a problem without personally caring about the problem. Also, in none of my posts have I defended Pixonic. The new matchmaking system sucks. The old one just happened to suck more. And I've explained in detail why this one sucks a little less. Not to mention it's hilarious to see all the pissed off seal clubbers that had previously spent $20 on gepards that they never actually got good enough to pilot correctly.
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Post by Replicant on Feb 24, 2017 18:26:37 GMT -5
Remember, Pix read the wiki and this is what the wiki wanted. Clubbing doesn't sound so bad now, does it? In my opinion (as a lower leveled player), clubbing was by far worse than this, and the comparison isn't even close. Clubbing occurred in almost every single match as a new player. There were 1-2 mag geps every single game. The worst part? You could not do anything about it. It was impossible to avoid. At least in this system, if you find yourself outmatched constantly, you can alter your strategy and put yourself in a lower tier where you can be competitive. I've played 50+ games below 100k dmg, 50+ between 100-200k, 50+ between 200-300k, and about 20 games from 300-400k. I haven't seen a single top tier bot in a single match. There simply isn't a problem of clubbing in the lower levels anymore. Tanking is a problem, which is easily fixed. But clubbing isn't. I found I could deal with Gepards by running Thunder Schutz, but in the new MM nothing I do changes my yo-yo opposition.
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Post by mijapi300 on Feb 24, 2017 19:37:18 GMT -5
In my opinion (as a lower leveled player), clubbing was by far worse than this, and the comparison isn't even close. Clubbing occurred in almost every single match as a new player. There were 1-2 mag geps every single game. The worst part? You could not do anything about it. It was impossible to avoid. At least in this system, if you find yourself outmatched constantly, you can alter your strategy and put yourself in a lower tier where you can be competitive. I've played 50+ games below 100k dmg, 50+ between 100-200k, 50+ between 200-300k, and about 20 games from 300-400k. I haven't seen a single top tier bot in a single match. There simply isn't a problem of clubbing in the lower levels anymore. Tanking is a problem, which is easily fixed. But clubbing isn't. I found I could deal with Gepards by running Thunder Schutz, but in the new MM nothing I do changes my yo-yo opposition. Thunder Schutz worked against the clubbers that were terrible, yeah. But from my experience, the majority of them weren't stupid enough to come closer than 250m to a thunder schutz. It was pretty well known to both clubbers and non-clubbers that thunder schutz was the only possible counter in the lowest tier. So it was very easy as a clubber to look out for thunder schutz and stay out of range of major damage.
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Post by ewing411 on Feb 24, 2017 19:54:18 GMT -5
<snip> The problem - the real problem - is the large amount of people tanking by ditching matches. Tanking, in general, isn't the issue. People are going to find a way to tank, regardless of the system. In the current system, tanking by doing zero damage doesn't ruin the game, as long as the person tanking partakes in the other objective of the game, capturing beacons. <snip> When I ditch it isn't to facilitate Tanking. With 1st spawn Sniper Heroes, MM deciding the other use side needs a 25% to 33% damage advantage, all-of-your-beacons-belong-to-us, or my-backpack-has-a-hole-in-it sometimes this game needs a surrender button and save everyone some time. People who only do beacon captures do bug me if it is clear they aren't drawing any agro, the six on five is a mismatched slaughter fest, AND they are clearly only in it for the beacons (not winning the match). That and the one time when this Cossack abdoned the beacon he started to take just to jump over into the dry dock and get the one I was doing. I've never left a match so early as that.
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Post by Replicant on Feb 24, 2017 20:31:38 GMT -5
I found I could deal with Gepards by running Thunder Schutz, but in the new MM nothing I do changes my yo-yo opposition. Thunder Schutz worked against the clubbers that were terrible, yeah. But from my experience, the majority of them weren't stupid enough to come closer than 250m to a thunder schutz. It was pretty well known to both clubbers and non-clubbers that thunder schutz was the only possible counter in the lowest tier. So it was very easy as a clubber to look out for thunder schutz and stay out of range of major damage. I don't disagree that a smart clubber would try and maintain range. My experience was that with my 3/5 Schutz & Cossack Hangar, I saw very few seal-club-six matches (few than the TT matches I currently get banded in to) and to the extent that I saw Gepards built to club, they were not so bright that I couldn't trade mechs 1:1. Maybe I was just lucky. 3+ Gepards was almost always a loss, and vs. 2 Gepards it really depended on ad hoc teamwork. But over-all I had a chance to take them down whereas with the current MM, if I get matched against level 10+ heavy mechs with matching guns, its a pretty one-sided fight. Changing my tactics doesn't appear to change my opponents. I guess I'm saying my experience has been pretty much the inverse of yours. I take people pretty much as the come, so not trying to prove you wrong here... its just odd that MM (pre and post) can give such divergent results. Another poster joked that the new MM was monkey-powered. In retrospect, maybe not so much a joke, and not limited to just the new MM.
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Post by Conflict's Student on Feb 24, 2017 20:49:40 GMT -5
Thunder Schutz worked against the clubbers that were terrible, yeah. But from my experience, the majority of them weren't stupid enough to come closer than 250m to a thunder schutz. It was pretty well known to both clubbers and non-clubbers that thunder schutz was the only possible counter in the lowest tier. So it was very easy as a clubber to look out for thunder schutz and stay out of range of major damage. I don't disagree that a smart clubber would try and maintain range. My experience was that with my 3/5 Schutz & Cossack Hangar, I saw very few seal-club-six matches (few than the TT matches I currently get banded in to) and to the extent that I saw Gepards built to club, they were not so bright that I couldn't trade mechs 1:1. Maybe I was just lucky. 3+ Gepards was almost always a loss, and vs. 2 Gepards it really depended on ad hoc teamwork. But over-all I had a chance to take them down whereas with the current MM, if I get matched against level 10+ heavy mechs with matching guns, its a pretty onesided fight. Changing my tactics doesn't appear to change my opponents. How the heck did you deal with them on blue? You might get a single side beacon in a schutze (or even 2 in a cossack), but even when I tried going directly across center they would usually be raiding the red spawn before I could get into weapons range of a single enemy. I agree that facing 1 or 2 Geps was generally manageable because, yes, many of them seemed to drive straight at you like lemmings who never learned to strafe (especially when they were armed with mags). I could just never come up with a way to escape Observer Mode when one of my "allies" was taking all the kills along with a majority of beacons along the way. Things got slightly better in low silver when reds became more likely to put up a little fight, but the matches still tended to suck every single time a Gepard spawned on my side. With the current MM, I can at least inflict a little damage when paired both with & against 12/12s. Under the old MM you had to hope that the only clubbers were on the red team if you wanted to get any gameplay.
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Post by Replicant on Feb 24, 2017 21:32:45 GMT -5
I don't disagree that a smart clubber would try and maintain range. My experience was that with my 3/5 Schutz & Cossack Hangar, I saw very few seal-club-six matches (few than the TT matches I currently get banded in to) and to the extent that I saw Gepards built to club, they were not so bright that I couldn't trade mechs 1:1. Maybe I was just lucky. 3+ Gepards was almost always a loss, and vs. 2 Gepards it really depended on ad hoc teamwork. But over-all I had a chance to take them down whereas with the current MM, if I get matched against level 10+ heavy mechs with matching guns, its a pretty onesided fight. Changing my tactics doesn't appear to change my opponents. How the heck did you deal with them on blue? You might get a single side beacon in a schutze (or even 2 in a cossack), but even when I tried going directly across center they would usually be raiding the red spawn before I could get into weapons range of a single enemy. I agree that facing 1 or 2 Geps was generally manageable because, yes, many of them seemed to drive straight at you like lemmings who never learned to strafe (especially when they were armed with mags). I could just never come up with a way to escape Observer Mode when one of my "allies" was taking all the kills along with a majority of beacons along the way. Things got slightly better in low silver when reds became more likely to put up a little fight, but the matches still tended to suck every single time a Gepard spawned on my side. With the current MM, I can at least inflict a little damage when paired both with & against 12/12s. Under the old MM you had to hope that the only clubbers were on the red team if you wanted to get any gameplay. Thunders put out more damage than mags at short ranges. Follow them in and assist. That clubber is like a medium tank-bot, and he draws all the attention. 1-2 mag geps felt a lot like 1-2 ancillots does now. More than two and I dropped As blue didn't need me anyway. Beacons often worked out ok too. I led with a Cossack so could get initial beacons. Matches with 2+ geps on blue were never high-gold earning matches, but with1-2 I still felt relevant and earned gold. Side question: Who do I have to off to get rid of the "Gepard" under my avatar?
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Post by Dredd77 on Feb 25, 2017 0:45:04 GMT -5
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Post by mijapi300 on Feb 25, 2017 2:20:49 GMT -5
The point of the thread was to offer a quick and easy solution to the current MM, not rant about anything.
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Post by Dredd77 on Feb 25, 2017 2:21:59 GMT -5
The point of the thread was to offer a quick and easy solution to the current MM, not rant about anything. I understand. Maybe we need to rename "Rants"
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Post by mijapi300 on Feb 25, 2017 2:26:21 GMT -5
The point of the thread was to offer a quick and easy solution to the current MM, not rant about anything. I understand. Maybe we need to rename "Rants" I responded without reading the new rules first. Apologies, and I completely understand. Although I had good intentions with this thread, it did turn into the same arguments that took over every thread. I'm totally on board with you guys' decision to move anything matchmaking related to the rant section. Thanks!
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