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Post by SuperHero on Oct 27, 2016 21:53:15 GMT -5
Frankly you are levelling up way too fast. Your dmg avg is low considering the tier you are playing in.
I would not focus on trying to arm the Fujin and pick a totally better bot for that. Even a spiral Patton is better than a molot fujin in the tier you are in.
That Leo you have is another example of bad use of silver to level a weapon that is not useful right now. I also think you have read the forums wrongly, the wsp bots need to be LOWER than your normal bots. You are thus being thrown into tiers that your heavy hangar is not ready for,
Stick to your mediums for awhile and save enough for the right weapons and the fifth slot.
If you really feel the need to keep the fujin but don't want to buy the best weapons for it, then the Tulus are your best bet. HOwever, even my RDB Griffin eats a fujin s for BF. It might take longer, but 3-4 salvoes kills one, even in sentry mode
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Post by tttt on Oct 28, 2016 0:33:12 GMT -5
I could be reading the matchmaking page wrong, but it appears the wsp hit is applied to your highest value bot. That would be either of those 6/4s. Is that not correct?
Here's the section for 6/4 heavies:
52:L:4/12, 6/11, 8/10: 565
53:M:1/10, 3/9, 5/8, 7/7: 570
54:H:2/6, 4/5, 6/4: 575
Right now stalker is at 8/9 and the Fujin is at 7/7. Both heavies are at 6/4. Everything is definitely underpowered, but I'm also seeing some parity in the matches I'm in. Actually had my first highest damage/10 gold with this group today, and my average damage is increasing.
Which isn't to say I'm not screwing up. I do see the contradiction on that page. On the one hand, it's recommended to keep your bots within 5-10 points of each other. On the other hand, the tiers say bot level 9/11 is in gold. Well, with 6/8 heavies that puts lights at 12/12. Does that move everything to the top tier? Or is it a balanced silver hanger?
I could stop leveling the stalker at 8/10 and go for a
6/8 H, 7/9 M, 8/10 L hanger and be solidly in silver.
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Post by tttt on Oct 28, 2016 6:04:03 GMT -5
A level 6 Griffin has 92,000 health, while a level 7 Fujin has 98k with a 54k shield. If they're both RDB, then the Fujin has the edge.
That assumes they're both just blasting away at each other without using cover.
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Post by tttt on Oct 28, 2016 9:56:40 GMT -5
So, doing the math and trying out both for a while and listening to the advice (thanks all), here's the what I see
On paper, Molot-ts have about 10k more cycle damage than Tulus - Tulus getting off twice in the time Molots Fire and reload.
That assumes every bullet and missile hits, which in practice is not the case. If a bot is moving or goes to cover bullets miss, while the Tulus can still give splash.
Plus Molots do require line-of sight, leaving any bot exposed. I think they're best for 400-800 range suppression fire, which isn't what I want to do with the Fujin.
With three Tulus, the Fujin essentially becomes RDB, which adds nicely to the plasma Griffin and lemonhead Griffin/Rhino (yellow orkins/mags = lemonhead) I want to run. The stalker rounds out as a capper.
Once I get the fifth slot, maybe I'll stick the molots on a Griffin just for fun.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 28, 2016 10:27:46 GMT -5
A level 6 Griffin has 92,000 health, while a level 7 Fujin has 98k with a 54k shield. If they're both RDB, then the Fujin has the edge. That assumes they're both just blasting away at each other without using cover. Are you considering the Griff's jump as "using cover?" I assume not since you are factoring in the Shield for the Fujin. IMO that will always give the Griff the edge. He can shoot at max range, jump back out of the Fujin's range, then close again. The jump should be close to ready by the time they get back in range. Avoiding the damage is better overall... IMO. Plus, with so many hardpoints, he can dedicate one to getting the shield down and then unload the rest into the poor Quaddie. |
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Post by tttt on Oct 28, 2016 10:46:47 GMT -5
Nope, now you're talking tactics, I'm simply pointing out the math.
Look at base health for both at level 6. They are the same - so if a couple of RDB drivers are just walking toward each other and blasting away then the Fujin's shield gives them the edge.
I know that because I had a great time once using sentry under the bridge in Canyon, where I took out a Griffin and a wounded boa before getting killed with plasma.
Now tactics? That's where it's interesting. Remember, we're talking two bots with the same range weapons. The Griffin can unload and then jump back out of range, but during that time the Fujin can hit sentry and get the benefit of the shield, cut sentry and move forward to close the gap before the Griffin has to recoup their jump.
And don't forget, the Griffin has to come back in range to fire which exposes it to fire, and if it's not jumping out of range but simply jumping, a patient Fujin driver can wait for the landing pause to unload. Plus, any bot facing a RDG Griffin should be using cover not just for protection but to force the Griffin to close and remain in range.
Point being experienced drivers are the difference, and most of the harshing on the Fujin sounds like it comes from people going up against drivers not using it correctly.
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Post by Strayed on Oct 28, 2016 11:12:14 GMT -5
The thing is, the griffin shouldn't be attacking the fujin in the first place. The role of a midranger is to take out the highest threat level bots, which the fujin simply is not.
I personally have not faced a good fujin pilot before.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 28, 2016 13:25:07 GMT -5
OK, so if you take away the Jump then you should take away the shield. Tactics come into it, sure... but the ability is not always "on", so it will be a tactical move to use it... Just sayin.
If you say that the shield isn't tactical and is just part of the HP pool, then of course if they were just standing there trading blows, it would win.
But yes, I have seen some vids of the triple Orc Fujin holdin it down like a killer clown! But I just feel that the Griff gives more flexibility to a 1v1 battle.
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Post by tttt on Oct 28, 2016 16:15:50 GMT -5
Don't necessarily disagree. And to be clear, just standing there trading blows isn't the best tactic. ? I'm just pointing out the math.
I think of the shield and the jump cancelling each other out, if each driver knows how to use them. And of course, I'm assuming lvl6 heavies. Higher levels the Fujin loses, but I'm not looking at anything higher than 6/8 heavies right now.
I'm looking at the Fujin as medium support, with the shield some help against longer-range bullets and missiles. Pop it on, move to cover during reload. I don't see it as a first-choice knife fighter.
I have PDB Griffin as a knife fighter, and am saving up for a rhino too.
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Post by miatahead on Oct 28, 2016 16:30:25 GMT -5
The only tulu-only bot I like is noob-level cossack. anything else, you just sit there every 20 secs, unless you alternate fire.
I can think of 5 other rocket bot configurations I'd rather play than support fujian. And since Griffin only costs silver, I really see no reason to get Fujian over griffin as support bot.
But if you like it, go with it. Seems to me the collective wisdom is fujian is sub-optimal though.
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