I'm tired of complaining about shocktrains
Mar 3, 2018 23:30:02 GMT -5
via mobile
northempire likes this
Post by northempire on Mar 3, 2018 23:30:02 GMT -5
We don't have to do this, it could be moderated with warnings and bans... we could be like TeamLiquid.net ... we can have good things!
Just read the Team Liquid rules for the strategy section:
SC2 Strategy Forum Guidelines: Mark II
The following is an updated, most recent, version of the SC2 Strategy Forum guidelines. Breaking any of the rules laid out here will result in warnings or bans.
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable.
That said, there are people much more qualified to talk about strategy than others. You will see their posts in this forum highlighted with a light blue background. Statements by these â??blue postersâ? will be weighted differently than had they be posted by complete unknowns. Thus, the less reputation you have, the more you need to back up your claims as previously described. Note, however, that this does not excuse outrageous claims by a good player â?? in the end, every claim will need proof.
Other Important Strategy Forum Rules:
YOU MUST WATCH REPLAYS when they are provided when responding to a thread.
No balance whining/discussion. We can't do anything about balance, especially in the strategy forums. Instead, discuss how to overcome perceived difficulties.
The Basic, General Rules of Teamliquid still apply. Of those, the most commonly broken rules include:
Donâ??t post one-liners that donâ??t add anything to the discussion.
No poll/survey/spam threads.
Don't be an ?poo place?.
Special Threads
There are a few special threads in this forum they deserve specific attention:
SC2 Strategy Recommended Threads
Before opening any type of thread or asking a question, you should probably read this thread first. Chances are thereâ??s already something for you!
Simple Questions Simple Answers
This thread is for the most basic of questions that are just a few lines(or even one line) and can be answered in a few lines(or one line). More often than not, these questions won't generate too much actual strategy related discussion, if any discussion at all. Also, if your question is not race specific, this is probably the place to go. Some examples of questions include:
Why do some pros not mine the middle minerals at the beginning of the game?
Why do I see Zerg players not scouting the close positions first?
How many workers should I transfer to my new natural?
More guidelines can be found in the opening post of the thread.
The Race Specific Help Me Threads:
The [image loading] Help Me Thread, The [image loading] Help Me Thread, The [image loading] Help Me Thread
The race specific help me threads are where you want to go when you have a strategy-related question or discussion topic, but you don't think it deserves its own thread. For example, if you want to know how to generally respond to a "1-1-1" build as protoss, you would ask here. You wouldn't ask in the simple questions thread, because the answer could be rather complex and is more strategy related. You also wouldn't open up your own [H] Help Thread, because you just want to know the general answer and you don't have a replay(a pre-req of a [H] thread) for a specific game. You wouldn't open a [D] Discussion Thread, because the topic you want to discuss isn't meaty enough, i.e. it has a definitive answer that can be summed up in a few lines.
Opening Your Own Thread
All threads opened in the Strategy Forums must fall into one of the following categories:
[H] Help Thread: Post a replay, give your own analysis, get help! Aka "Why did I lose?"
[D] Discussion Thread: Be clear about the topic and the feedback you are hoping for.
[G] Guide: Know what you are talking about.
Thus, the first rule of opening a new thread is that all threads must have at least one of the 3 main tags([H][D][G]) in the thread title and may include the [L] Low Level tag. Tagging your threads is very important, as the difference between [D] Stephano Style and [G] Stephano Style is worlds apart. Please use thread categorization correctly as described below. It give readers a reasonable expectation of what they can expect to find once opening the thread and you will get faster feedback faster as well. Categorizing threads also makes it easier to find threads later on using the search function. For example, you can easily search for â??[H] Stephano Styleâ? and there you are.
The following is an explanation of all the types of threads and tags in the Starcraft 2 Strategy Forums.
[H] Help Thread: Post a replay, give your own analysis, get help! Aka "Why did I lose?"
Posting a [H] Thread:
It is absolutely required that you post a replay. No exceptions. Nobody is going to be able to help you if you wonâ??t post a replay.
Additionally, first put some thought into what happened in the game, and include your own analysis into the thread. It might be wrong, but try your best. It doesn't have to be long; just a few lines is enough to give people a starting point to give you advice. The more analysis you give, the better advice you will get in return. Your thread will be closed if you wonâ??t put any effort into it.
If you have specific questions, ask them along with your analysis. Itâ??s always easier to reply if we know what exactly you need help with.
The macro factor: Before asking for advice, please read the guidelines for replay analysis. You should be able to determine if you lost because of macro or not. If you lost because of macro, we permit specific questions about macro. Do not ask for generic advice. Instead, ask for specific advice based off of the replays you post. Examples include:
He was able to get an expansion up and he held an economic lead all game, what should I do in response to this after my opening from the replay?
He was able to keep denying my expansion by doing XYZ, what should I have done to be able to expand?
Feedback on [H] Threads:
Before responding, YOU MUST WATCH THE REPLAY. Too many times, people give generic advice without watching the replay which doesn't apply at all to the specific game in question.
Be respectful in your response and remember Rule No 1.
Be respectful as the original poster of the opinions people give you â?? you came here looking for help. If you disagree with a reply, cite examples or give some sort of analysis supporting why you disagree.
Only reply to a help thread if you are an experienced SC2 player.
Experienced players should be direct and give advice that is generally accepted as standard. Their advice should be as specific as possible, as open-ended advice (â??play fasterâ?) isnâ??t very helpful.
When responding, differentiate between your opinion(in your experience) and what is generally accepted as standard.
Do not simply respond: "Macro better", especially if macro wasn't a large determining factor in the loss. If the problem was really macro problem, point out specific fixes the macro.
Try to answer the users questions or pinpoint their mistakes: While an entire overview of their play can be useful, your first and foremost priority should be to address the biggest problems in the game.
[D] Discussion Thread: Be clear about the topic and the feedback you are hoping for
Posting a [D] Thread:
This is the most open form of thread. Use a Discussion thread if you are not certain about some game mechanic and you want to get the feedback from other players. This can be about strategy and tactics, the role and viability of certain units, rock paper scissor counters, etc. The building blocks of what becomes sound SC2 strategy.
While the thread is less formal, please be clear and concise on the topic you want to discuss about, and open with your own opinion. Donâ??t make the topic too broad.
Make sure that the topic is worthy of discussion. If it can be definitively answered easily, it should probably be in a race specific help me thread. Use your own judgment for this.
This is the perfect way to post a strategy you came up with that is not quite ready to be turned into a guide (See below). Post your strategy and point out the areas where you are not sure about its validity and ask for feedback.
Feedback on [D] threads:
Be respectful and remember Rule No 1.
You wanted to generate discussion, so please donâ??t brush off suggestions you donâ??t agree with. Post your counter argument and back it up (Rule No 1). The same goes for people replying to such threads.
Threads like these are a welcome place for people less experienced to ask for opinions, make suggestions and engage in discussion.
[G] Guide: Know what you are talking about
Posting a Guide:
Guides are complete, detailed, and comprehensive advice for a specific strategy or tactic that can be generally executed and is not situational. Guides are held up against the highest standards of quality in this forum. They are the most valuable resource for the average player. Writing a good guide may yield you wide appreciation and e-fame, but comes with a lot of work and responsibility.
Naturally, do not write a guide about something you are not experienced with. If you have come up with a new build and you just won 6 games in a row with it, do not start writing a guide. Play your build more, tweak it, find out its weaknesses and follow-ups and branches. A good rule of thumb is to play a strategy until you lose a couple of times with it against different counters, then modify it until you win most games again, then start to think about writing a guide.
A good guide does not necessarily have to be written about a build in a specific matchup, although that is most common type of guide. If you have found a new, incredibly effective way to micro Helions you can write a generic Helion micro guide.
Most of the time, guides will introduce builds in specific matchups. Look through the Recommended Strategy Thread to get an idea on how to write good matchup build guides. There is no perfect recipe, but a few things to take care of: State the goal of the build, strengths, weaknesses, possible follow-up, and adaptations to what the opponent does. Dedicate a chapter to scouting and how to react to what you see within your build.
To give you an idea of the quality we are eventually aiming for, have a look at some incredible already written guides:
[G] Doc's Somewhat Definitive Guide to TvZ
[G] PvZ: Dealing with Muta
Feedback on Guides:
Be respectful and remember Rule No 1.
A guide is always evolving as the game is being more and more understood and as people find counter strategies. As the author it is your job to keep the guide up to date. If other players find weaknesses or suggest changes to the build, it is your job to alter it accordingly. If you disagree, fall back to Rule No 1: Post a replay or some other form of proof that the criticism isnâ??t valid.
Put effort into your criticism of guides. Responding to a 2000 word guide with "Hellions would ?grape? this build" is not acceptable. Explain in depth, with as much effort as the guide-writer did, why you think hellions at a specific timing in a specific circumstance would do well versus the build. As always, remember Rule No 1 and back everything up with empirical evidence. Your point will be much more believable if you back it up with replays or vods, preferably from professional players.
[L] Low Level: You know you aren't a star player and you need help with fundamentals
First off, the [L] tag should always be used in conjunction with another tag. Use the [L] tag if you are still learning the basics of the game and if you have fundamental problems / questions. There is no clear cut line where "Low Level" starts - it's up to you. Do you feel you need input from a top tier player, or are you still working on mechanics? Judge your own skill.
Please note that making a [L] thread does not exclude you from obeying the rest of these guidelines or allows you to ask stupid questions.
And Finally, Contribute!
Contribute to this forum! Give good and meaningful advice when you can. Write good introductory OPs to spawn discussion. Even when your thread does not follow these rules here at all, if it is still a well written OP, it will stay. We will always reward effort put into our forums.
This site has been the number one resource for Starcraft strategy for one reason: Because its base of enthusiastic players put an indescribable amount of combined effort into it. Be a part of the best source for Starcraft 2 Strategy anywhere!
The following is an updated, most recent, version of the SC2 Strategy Forum guidelines. Breaking any of the rules laid out here will result in warnings or bans.
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable.
That said, there are people much more qualified to talk about strategy than others. You will see their posts in this forum highlighted with a light blue background. Statements by these â??blue postersâ? will be weighted differently than had they be posted by complete unknowns. Thus, the less reputation you have, the more you need to back up your claims as previously described. Note, however, that this does not excuse outrageous claims by a good player â?? in the end, every claim will need proof.
Other Important Strategy Forum Rules:
YOU MUST WATCH REPLAYS when they are provided when responding to a thread.
No balance whining/discussion. We can't do anything about balance, especially in the strategy forums. Instead, discuss how to overcome perceived difficulties.
The Basic, General Rules of Teamliquid still apply. Of those, the most commonly broken rules include:
Donâ??t post one-liners that donâ??t add anything to the discussion.
No poll/survey/spam threads.
Don't be an ?poo place?.
Special Threads
There are a few special threads in this forum they deserve specific attention:
SC2 Strategy Recommended Threads
Before opening any type of thread or asking a question, you should probably read this thread first. Chances are thereâ??s already something for you!
Simple Questions Simple Answers
This thread is for the most basic of questions that are just a few lines(or even one line) and can be answered in a few lines(or one line). More often than not, these questions won't generate too much actual strategy related discussion, if any discussion at all. Also, if your question is not race specific, this is probably the place to go. Some examples of questions include:
Why do some pros not mine the middle minerals at the beginning of the game?
Why do I see Zerg players not scouting the close positions first?
How many workers should I transfer to my new natural?
More guidelines can be found in the opening post of the thread.
The Race Specific Help Me Threads:
The [image loading] Help Me Thread, The [image loading] Help Me Thread, The [image loading] Help Me Thread
The race specific help me threads are where you want to go when you have a strategy-related question or discussion topic, but you don't think it deserves its own thread. For example, if you want to know how to generally respond to a "1-1-1" build as protoss, you would ask here. You wouldn't ask in the simple questions thread, because the answer could be rather complex and is more strategy related. You also wouldn't open up your own [H] Help Thread, because you just want to know the general answer and you don't have a replay(a pre-req of a [H] thread) for a specific game. You wouldn't open a [D] Discussion Thread, because the topic you want to discuss isn't meaty enough, i.e. it has a definitive answer that can be summed up in a few lines.
Opening Your Own Thread
All threads opened in the Strategy Forums must fall into one of the following categories:
[H] Help Thread: Post a replay, give your own analysis, get help! Aka "Why did I lose?"
[D] Discussion Thread: Be clear about the topic and the feedback you are hoping for.
[G] Guide: Know what you are talking about.
Thus, the first rule of opening a new thread is that all threads must have at least one of the 3 main tags([H][D][G]) in the thread title and may include the [L] Low Level tag. Tagging your threads is very important, as the difference between [D] Stephano Style and [G] Stephano Style is worlds apart. Please use thread categorization correctly as described below. It give readers a reasonable expectation of what they can expect to find once opening the thread and you will get faster feedback faster as well. Categorizing threads also makes it easier to find threads later on using the search function. For example, you can easily search for â??[H] Stephano Styleâ? and there you are.
The following is an explanation of all the types of threads and tags in the Starcraft 2 Strategy Forums.
[H] Help Thread: Post a replay, give your own analysis, get help! Aka "Why did I lose?"
Posting a [H] Thread:
It is absolutely required that you post a replay. No exceptions. Nobody is going to be able to help you if you wonâ??t post a replay.
Additionally, first put some thought into what happened in the game, and include your own analysis into the thread. It might be wrong, but try your best. It doesn't have to be long; just a few lines is enough to give people a starting point to give you advice. The more analysis you give, the better advice you will get in return. Your thread will be closed if you wonâ??t put any effort into it.
If you have specific questions, ask them along with your analysis. Itâ??s always easier to reply if we know what exactly you need help with.
The macro factor: Before asking for advice, please read the guidelines for replay analysis. You should be able to determine if you lost because of macro or not. If you lost because of macro, we permit specific questions about macro. Do not ask for generic advice. Instead, ask for specific advice based off of the replays you post. Examples include:
He was able to get an expansion up and he held an economic lead all game, what should I do in response to this after my opening from the replay?
He was able to keep denying my expansion by doing XYZ, what should I have done to be able to expand?
Feedback on [H] Threads:
Before responding, YOU MUST WATCH THE REPLAY. Too many times, people give generic advice without watching the replay which doesn't apply at all to the specific game in question.
Be respectful in your response and remember Rule No 1.
Be respectful as the original poster of the opinions people give you â?? you came here looking for help. If you disagree with a reply, cite examples or give some sort of analysis supporting why you disagree.
Only reply to a help thread if you are an experienced SC2 player.
Experienced players should be direct and give advice that is generally accepted as standard. Their advice should be as specific as possible, as open-ended advice (â??play fasterâ?) isnâ??t very helpful.
When responding, differentiate between your opinion(in your experience) and what is generally accepted as standard.
Do not simply respond: "Macro better", especially if macro wasn't a large determining factor in the loss. If the problem was really macro problem, point out specific fixes the macro.
Try to answer the users questions or pinpoint their mistakes: While an entire overview of their play can be useful, your first and foremost priority should be to address the biggest problems in the game.
[D] Discussion Thread: Be clear about the topic and the feedback you are hoping for
Posting a [D] Thread:
This is the most open form of thread. Use a Discussion thread if you are not certain about some game mechanic and you want to get the feedback from other players. This can be about strategy and tactics, the role and viability of certain units, rock paper scissor counters, etc. The building blocks of what becomes sound SC2 strategy.
While the thread is less formal, please be clear and concise on the topic you want to discuss about, and open with your own opinion. Donâ??t make the topic too broad.
Make sure that the topic is worthy of discussion. If it can be definitively answered easily, it should probably be in a race specific help me thread. Use your own judgment for this.
This is the perfect way to post a strategy you came up with that is not quite ready to be turned into a guide (See below). Post your strategy and point out the areas where you are not sure about its validity and ask for feedback.
Feedback on [D] threads:
Be respectful and remember Rule No 1.
You wanted to generate discussion, so please donâ??t brush off suggestions you donâ??t agree with. Post your counter argument and back it up (Rule No 1). The same goes for people replying to such threads.
Threads like these are a welcome place for people less experienced to ask for opinions, make suggestions and engage in discussion.
[G] Guide: Know what you are talking about
Posting a Guide:
Guides are complete, detailed, and comprehensive advice for a specific strategy or tactic that can be generally executed and is not situational. Guides are held up against the highest standards of quality in this forum. They are the most valuable resource for the average player. Writing a good guide may yield you wide appreciation and e-fame, but comes with a lot of work and responsibility.
Naturally, do not write a guide about something you are not experienced with. If you have come up with a new build and you just won 6 games in a row with it, do not start writing a guide. Play your build more, tweak it, find out its weaknesses and follow-ups and branches. A good rule of thumb is to play a strategy until you lose a couple of times with it against different counters, then modify it until you win most games again, then start to think about writing a guide.
A good guide does not necessarily have to be written about a build in a specific matchup, although that is most common type of guide. If you have found a new, incredibly effective way to micro Helions you can write a generic Helion micro guide.
Most of the time, guides will introduce builds in specific matchups. Look through the Recommended Strategy Thread to get an idea on how to write good matchup build guides. There is no perfect recipe, but a few things to take care of: State the goal of the build, strengths, weaknesses, possible follow-up, and adaptations to what the opponent does. Dedicate a chapter to scouting and how to react to what you see within your build.
To give you an idea of the quality we are eventually aiming for, have a look at some incredible already written guides:
[G] Doc's Somewhat Definitive Guide to TvZ
[G] PvZ: Dealing with Muta
Feedback on Guides:
Be respectful and remember Rule No 1.
A guide is always evolving as the game is being more and more understood and as people find counter strategies. As the author it is your job to keep the guide up to date. If other players find weaknesses or suggest changes to the build, it is your job to alter it accordingly. If you disagree, fall back to Rule No 1: Post a replay or some other form of proof that the criticism isnâ??t valid.
Put effort into your criticism of guides. Responding to a 2000 word guide with "Hellions would ?grape? this build" is not acceptable. Explain in depth, with as much effort as the guide-writer did, why you think hellions at a specific timing in a specific circumstance would do well versus the build. As always, remember Rule No 1 and back everything up with empirical evidence. Your point will be much more believable if you back it up with replays or vods, preferably from professional players.
[L] Low Level: You know you aren't a star player and you need help with fundamentals
First off, the [L] tag should always be used in conjunction with another tag. Use the [L] tag if you are still learning the basics of the game and if you have fundamental problems / questions. There is no clear cut line where "Low Level" starts - it's up to you. Do you feel you need input from a top tier player, or are you still working on mechanics? Judge your own skill.
Please note that making a [L] thread does not exclude you from obeying the rest of these guidelines or allows you to ask stupid questions.
And Finally, Contribute!
Contribute to this forum! Give good and meaningful advice when you can. Write good introductory OPs to spawn discussion. Even when your thread does not follow these rules here at all, if it is still a well written OP, it will stay. We will always reward effort put into our forums.
This site has been the number one resource for Starcraft strategy for one reason: Because its base of enthusiastic players put an indescribable amount of combined effort into it. Be a part of the best source for Starcraft 2 Strategy anywhere!
And look at this tool getting warned in this thread, you are required to watch replays before offering advice in the rules... www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/518183-zvz-how-do-i-play-against-lurkers ...love it!
And they make new members read the TL 10 Commandments when they sign up.
you mean like the anti-jerk policy in butterscotch shenanigans?
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