|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 8:13:35 GMT -5
After watching a lot of War Robots videos on YouTube by many of the usual big names, iv noticed that they all seem to moan about Orkan Haechi and ember fury calling them so OP and needing loads of nerfs. The only reason I can see for this is that because finally there is something that counters everyone's favourite noob bot....the tarancilot...no tactic needed..just plod forward absorbing massive damage and take out the enemy..being protected by a great physical shield...a great energy shield...good HP and a charge function.
If anything is OP it's this...it may not seem obvious but little can actually stand up to a tarancilot...zeus is useless, thunders not much better, plasma hopeless and RDB won't even take down the shield.
This is honestly not a rant but I think everyone is overlooking a set up that truly needs a NERF as you are pretty screwed if the enemy drops 4 or 5 tarancilots...especially on beacon rush.
So what do you think? Is it really that bad having embers and Orkan haechis as it actually balances the game more....beforehand tarancilots could walk around with impunity
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 8:23:48 GMT -5
If you think that an Haechi can be compared to a Tarancilot, you are totally wrong. The Haechi is MUCH superior, because it has great firepower, extreme mobility and high survivability. The Taran Ancilot, instead, only has great defensive capabilities, mediocre (altough sufficient) firepower and it's slow as hell. It's very good, of course, and it was a problem in terms of gaming experience but there were a lot of possible solutions...no need to release even more OP stuff.
|
|
|
|
Post by wildboar on Dec 14, 2017 8:27:20 GMT -5
I have a Tarancilot ... trust me , it goes down like any other bot... and it's painfully slow
|
|
|
|
Post by hi5 on Dec 14, 2017 8:33:18 GMT -5
I disagree based on my experience. Tarancilots have several “hands down” counters 1v1 - a DB or Hellfire Rhino can push through the bubble and kill it easily. A Plasmahad can kill it too, with or without targeting the gaps in the physical shield. A DB Griff can also kill it if it pounces just right. Lead hose builds can kill it with some distance btweeen them.
A herd of Ancilots can be challenging or impossible depending on what you have against it, but can be countered with a similarly organized Blue side using above builds or just speed to stay up on beacons.
Haechi on the other hand has no “hands down” counter. PDB Griff can win sometimes but its usually crippled. Ancilot can win if piloted really well and maintaining distance vs Orks. And a Haechi can kill a Haechi. Not much else. And forget about a group of Dash vs anything other than maybe a herd of Ancilots - but speed/beacons would win out.
I think it’s op for the reasons many others have said - it’s combination of speed, firepower and Ancile is unmatched and there is no true rock/paper/scissors counter.
|
|
|
|
Post by ᕲΣΣᕲƧ on Dec 14, 2017 8:37:23 GMT -5
A haechi is basically an ancilot that is 50% faster and has 2 charges instead of 1. The charge is also instant instead of just a speed boost. Haechi is not a counter or balance to lance. It is a much better bot. If anything, haechi is like a next generation evolution of lance.
Although I do agree with you. On certain maps, especially before DIES, 4-6 lance (with more in reserve for subsequent waves) could make for quick games.
The big difference is, lance was obtainable. Yeah, it was a lot of gold and take a while. But everyone could have 1. Or 2 or 4 if they put in the time. Haechi is not available without real money for everyone except a select few. Just getting 1 is nearly impossible. Getting 4 without real money is a dream.
FWIW all it takes to kill an ancilot, now or pre DIES, is an orkan thunder lance.
|
|
|
|
Post by TravLar on Dec 14, 2017 8:38:02 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from 'cos I also found them difficult to deal with, but
a) You can get a Tarancilot of your own without braking the bank.
b) Plasmahad will beat him 1-on-1 and it can be a fairly quick fight if you hit the Lance right on the edge of the aiming block - the hits pass his physical shield
c) Punisher Griffin, just be out of his range or right in his face.
d) Lance with a Thunder and 2 Orkans is a Tarancilot killer.
e) DB Griffin and Thunder Carnage can both take him down with a good ambush
f) You can also take one down with an Orkan Rog if you use cover and well piloted Orkan Kumies often take mine out.
As soon as his Ancile shield is down he's really pretty soft to rocket fire.
Want it to feel weak? Run one against Haechi or an Ember or two...
|
|
|
|
Post by AzureAura on Dec 14, 2017 8:41:01 GMT -5
I wouldn't go as far to say that it needs a nerf
Tho maybe a price increase would be nice, it basically roams the battle fields in every match I'm in. Regardless of how long the match has been going on I always see one
|
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 8:43:04 GMT -5
I understand tarancilots are slow and can be beaten but it's really no different. I have been killed countless times by PDB's, tarancilots and other energy weapons in my Haechi. But if someone is going to say that the Haechi is OP or the ember is OP when they can be easily countered either by alone or a team then I don't understand the defence of the tarancilot. I mean 90% of the time I take out a tarancilot I am doing so by not being the target of it's fire and hitting from back or sides...but that's equally how haechis are taken out...couple of thunder blasts to strip shield then RDB from safety.
I just think without Haechi and ember then in most situations the ancilots reigns supreme
|
|
|
|
Post by ᕲΣΣᕲƧ on Dec 14, 2017 8:48:42 GMT -5
I wouldn't go as far to say that it needs a nerf Tho maybe a price increase would be nice, it basically roams the battle fields in every match I'm in. Regardless of how long the match has been going on I always see one In my experience, there have always been certain bots that dominated particular tiers or leagues. They are the bots everyone wants. The bots you'll see 3 or 4 of them in people's hangars. Increasing the price of the content everyone wants (and already widely complains isn't available enough) would be an existential threat to the game. Especially since the community is already beyond frustrated with pixonic. |
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 8:50:24 GMT -5
A haechi is basically an ancilot that is 50% faster and has 2 charges instead of 1. The charge is also instant instead of just a speed boost. Haechi is not a counter or balance to lance. It is a much better bot. If anything, haechi is like a next generation evolution of lance. Although I do agree with you. On certain maps, especially before DIES, 4-6 lance (with more in reserve for subsequent waves) could make for quick games. The big difference is, lance was obtainable. Yeah, it was a lot of gold and take a while. But everyone could have 1. Or 2 or 4 if they put in the time. Haechi is not available without real money for everyone except a select few. Just getting 1 is nearly impossible. Getting 4 without real money is a dream. FWIW all it takes to kill an ancilot, now or pre DIES, is an orkan thunder lance. Dash bots are obtainable now technically for free....using WSP points.. I got a Bulg this way. Also Heachi Orkans is only OP at max level...a level 9/9 Haechi Orkans would not beat a level 9/9 tarancilot. Your volley will strip it's shield and take a bot of health off..only problem is you have to wait a long time to full reload...in that time your mincemeat. With the ember the change I would make is changing reload to 15 seconds as the 5 secs is a piss take. |
|
|
|
Post by ᕲΣΣᕲƧ on Dec 14, 2017 9:01:56 GMT -5
Dash bots are obtainable now technically for free....using WSP points.. I got a Bulg this way. Also Heachi Orkans is only OP at max level...a level 9/9 Haechi Orkans would not beat a level 9/9 tarancilot. Your volley will strip it's shield and take a bot of health off..only problem is you have to wait a long time to full reload...in that time your mincemeat. With the ember the change I would make is changing reload to 15 seconds as the 5 secs is a piss take. I've been working getting a haechi from the offers since they started. I had like 33k in WSP on the first day. I've used all that, pretty much all the WSP I've gotten since, and a lot of gold on the haechi offers. Combined with with the components I've received from the black market, I have 7600 right now. At most I can get 240 day typically with 120 being closer to reality. Some day I can't get any or the offer isn't interesting because of the 2nd item. So you tell me, how long have offers been a thing, and how many days of 120 components will it take to reach 10,000? |
|
|
|
Post by CrownBlack on Dec 14, 2017 9:19:05 GMT -5
If you think that an Haechi can be compared to a Tarancilot, you are totally wrong. The Haechi is MUCH superior, because it has great firepower, extreme mobility and high survivability. The Taran Ancilot, instead, only has great defensive capabilities, mediocre (altough sufficient) firepower and it's slow as hell. It's very good, of course, and it was a problem in terms of gaming experience but there were a lot of possible solutions...no need to release even more OP stuff. so true ^^^^^. The tarancilot shield is easily broken. A Zeus Fury breaks it in 3 shots. The Tarancilot is rugged, durable but easily killed if you have decent teammates. FAR from OP. |
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 9:19:56 GMT -5
Dash bots are obtainable now technically for free....using WSP points.. I got a Bulg this way. Also Heachi Orkans is only OP at max level...a level 9/9 Haechi Orkans would not beat a level 9/9 tarancilot. Your volley will strip it's shield and take a bot of health off..only problem is you have to wait a long time to full reload...in that time your mincemeat. With the ember the change I would make is changing reload to 15 seconds as the 5 secs is a piss take. I've been working getting a haechi from the offers since they started. I had like 33k in WSP on the first day. I've used all that, pretty much all the WSP I've gotten since, and a lot of gold on the haechi offers. Combined with with the components I've received from the black market, I have 7600 right now. At most I can get 240 day typically with 120 being closer to reality. Some day I can't get any or the offer isn't interesting because of the 2nd item. So you tell me, how long have offers been a thing, and how many days of 120 components will it take to reach 10,000? Don't forget save up your keys and that helps with components and those daily game things can get some. I don't have a problem with the tarancilot if we stop nerfing everything that poses a threat to it. Any bot can be taken out easily if played right...whilst some might appear OP they still need skill. I have killed tonnes of Orkan haechis because they were not played correctly |
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 9:22:32 GMT -5
If you think that an Haechi can be compared to a Tarancilot, you are totally wrong. The Haechi is MUCH superior, because it has great firepower, extreme mobility and high survivability. The Taran Ancilot, instead, only has great defensive capabilities, mediocre (altough sufficient) firepower and it's slow as hell. It's very good, of course, and it was a problem in terms of gaming experience but there were a lot of possible solutions...no need to release even more OP stuff. so true ^^^^^. The tarancilot shied is easily broken. A Zeus Fury breaks it in 3 shots. The Tarancilot is rugged, durable but easily killed if you have decent teammates. FAR from OP. Hit a Haechi with the same Zeus fury 3 times and it's basically dead never mind just getting rid of a shield. I did so twice in a previous game today |
|
|
|
Post by Domino on Dec 14, 2017 9:25:03 GMT -5
The problem is when you have 5 Lances on the Red team all at once.
Lances in any flavour have weaknesses. Mobility is the major one.
Pixonic really really needs to create a hangar balance system, where you can only assign so much crap to a hangar. i.e you cannot have 5 Lances in 1 hangar. Or 5 dashs. Everything weapons/bots have a point value depending on effectiveness.
Lance = 8
Heachi = 9
Shocktrain = 8
Stalker = 3
Orkan = 5
etc etc. You can only have 80 points in your hangar. Build a hangar that fits into 80 points.
Forces light bots into the game, adds a level of depth. If someone wants to use a heachi and 3 mk2 shocktrains? you probably can only use 4 out of the 5 spots in your hanagar.
I would like to see this introduced on a test server and see how it works out because I think it will solve ALOT of OP issues.
|
|
|
|
Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Dec 14, 2017 9:43:39 GMT -5
Even when Pix was releasing the blog posts about Dashes, they admitted the big difference. Dash bots have a MUCH higher skill ceiling. There is a limit to how good you can get in a tarancilot. A good dash bot pilot has the most beneficial boon of all... mobility. Added with the awesome firepower of 3 medium weapons, decent HP, and even post nerf a pretty good Ancile, there is a lot one can do in a Haechi even if lower leveled than the opposition. I have one in my iOS hangar. Level 9 with level 7 weapons. I can hang with folks that have much higher setups because of the simple fact that I can close, strike, and retreat more than they can shoot at me. I’m beginning to agree that the double dash is the reason it’s OP.
IMO, YMMV.
|
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 9:49:02 GMT -5
The problem is when you have 5 Lances on the Red team all at once. Lances in any flavour have weaknesses. Mobility is the major one. Pixonic really really needs to create a hangar balance system, where you can only assign so much crap to a hangar. i.e you cannot have 5 Lances in 1 hangar. Or 5 dashs. Everything weapons/bots have a point value depending on effectiveness. Lance = 8 Heachi = 9 Shocktrain = 8 Stalker = 3 Orkan = 5 etc etc. You can only have 80 points in your hangar. Build a hangar that fits into 80 points. Forces light bots into the game, adds a level of depth. If someone wants to use a heachi and 3 mk2 shocktrains? you probably can only use 4 out of the 5 spots in your hanagar. I would like to see this introduced on a test server and see how it works out because I think it will solve ALOT of OP issues. I like ideas like this. Another was to have 3 slots for med or light bots and 2 for heavy. Stops stomping as you have to choose carefully when to drop each bot. To everyone else...i fully understand that the tarancilot has flaws like you point out...but so do the haechi and ember. Most bots can beat most bots under certain circumstances....ive killed dashes with Zeus fury, PDB's, well timed RDB's, tarancilot and just about every other build..just like all these have killed tarancilots. I could find a way to claim anything is OP under a certain circumstance....at over 1000 geckos are, at 300 Orkans are, at 500 RDBs are, at 600 Zeus are and so on |
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 9:54:08 GMT -5
Even when Pix was releasing the blog posts about Dashes, they admitted the big difference. Dash bots have a MUCH higher skill ceiling. There is a limit to how good you can get in a tarancilot. A good dash bot pilot has the most beneficial boon of all... mobility. Added with the awesome firepower of 3 medium weapons, decent HP, and even post nerf a pretty good Ancile, there is a lot one can do in a Haechi even if lower leveled than the opposition. I have one in my iOS hangar. Level 9 with level 7 weapons. I can hang with folks that have much higher setups because of the simple fact that I can close, strike, and retreat more than they can shoot at me. I’m beginning to agree that the double dash is the reason it’s OP. IMO, YMMV. To be honest you hit the nail on the head...they require more skill to be OP I think. Using your dashes carefully stops you getting bum rushed. A bad player in a Haechi isn't going to conserve dashes in case...they are not going to be good at target tracking when they jump etc. Bare in mind the dash is only good if your a good player with good situational awareness |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 11:25:46 GMT -5
I understand tarancilots are slow and can be beaten but it's really no different. I have been killed countless times by PDB's, tarancilots and other energy weapons in my Haechi. But if someone is going to say that the Haechi is OP or the ember is OP when they can be easily countered either by alone or a team then I don't understand the defence of the tarancilot. I mean 90% of the time I take out a tarancilot I am doing so by not being the target of it's fire and hitting from back or sides...but that's equally how haechis are taken out...couple of thunder blasts to strip shield then RDB from safety. I just think without Haechi and ember then in most situations the ancilots reigns supreme The reason is easy to understand: you lack experience with your Haechi and/or it is too low level. Have you ever asked yourself why top clans use ONLY Dash bots and there are virtually 0 Ancilots in their hangars? There's a reason if Dash bots are priced so high, and that's why EVERY top player has to spend tons of money to get them if he wants to stay competitive: they are the best bots around. And it really doesn't matter if you can kill them, of course you can! They are not invincible! But no other knife fighter build can kill a properly-piloted Haechi 1 vs 1. |
|
|
|
Post by bronzeknee on Dec 14, 2017 12:00:00 GMT -5
A haechi is basically an ancilot that is 50% faster and has 2 charges instead of 1. The charge is also instant instead of just a speed boost. Haechi is not a counter or balance to lance. It is a much better bot. If anything, haechi is like a next generation evolution of lance. Although I do agree with you. On certain maps, especially before DIES, 4-6 lance (with more in reserve for subsequent waves) could make for quick games. The big difference is, lance was obtainable. Yeah, it was a lot of gold and take a while. But everyone could have 1. Or 2 or 4 if they put in the time. Haechi is not available without real money for everyone except a select few. Just getting 1 is nearly impossible. Getting 4 without real money is a dream. FWIW all it takes to kill an ancilot, now or pre DIES, is an orkan thunder lance. Dash bots are obtainable now technically for free....using WSP points.. I got a Bulg this way. Also Heachi Orkans is only OP at max level...a level 9/9 Haechi Orkans would not beat a level 9/9 tarancilot. Your volley will strip it's shield and take a bot of health off..only problem is you have to wait a long time to full reload...in that time your mincemeat. You Dash into the Ancile Bubble and kill the Lance from there. A Haechi with Orkans can kill any type of Lancelot with ease. |
|
|
|
Post by mechtout on Dec 14, 2017 12:12:58 GMT -5
My midlevel bots melt vs a maxed orkan haechi so i'll just blame the mm until i have the maxed bots to really make an analysis if the haechi is op.
|
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 12:17:15 GMT -5
I understand tarancilots are slow and can be beaten but it's really no different. I have been killed countless times by PDB's, tarancilots and other energy weapons in my Haechi. But if someone is going to say that the Haechi is OP or the ember is OP when they can be easily countered either by alone or a team then I don't understand the defence of the tarancilot. I mean 90% of the time I take out a tarancilot I am doing so by not being the target of it's fire and hitting from back or sides...but that's equally how haechis are taken out...couple of thunder blasts to strip shield then RDB from safety. I just think without Haechi and ember then in most situations the ancilots reigns supreme The reason is easy to understand: you lack experience with your Haechi and/or it is too low level. Have you ever asked yourself why top clans use ONLY Dash bots and there are virtually 0 Ancilots in their hangars? There's a reason if Dash bots are priced so high, and that's why EVERY top player has to spend tons of money to get them if he wants to stay competitive: they are the best bots around. And it really doesn't matter if you can kill them, of course you can! They are not invincible! But no other knife fighter build can kill a properly-piloted Haechi 1 vs 1. I'm perfectly skilled with my Haechi.. .but that's the problem....for a Haechi to really be OP it has to be used with great skill. And saying I get killed a lot in it doesn't make me a noob...if 2 bots attack at the same time...i die....if a PDB jumps over cover after I have unloaded on another target...again I'm dead. The difference is tarancilot requires no skill...plod forward hit the charge and fire. There is always going to be a bot that's top and crushes others...before the dash this was the tarancilot who feared very little and at 5000AU a piece they are not exactly attainable to the average player. Certainly not 3 or 4 of them. |
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 12:18:50 GMT -5
Dash bots are obtainable now technically for free....using WSP points.. I got a Bulg this way. Also Heachi Orkans is only OP at max level...a level 9/9 Haechi Orkans would not beat a level 9/9 tarancilot. Your volley will strip it's shield and take a bot of health off..only problem is you have to wait a long time to full reload...in that time your mincemeat. You Dash into the Ancile Bubble and kill the Lance from there. A Haechi with Orkans can kill any type of Lancelot with ease. The only way you are dashing into an ancile shield is by surprise......funnily enough that's how you kill Haechi...wait whilst he's shooting elsewhere...jump over cover and unload plasma when he's out of rockets |
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 12:23:00 GMT -5
My midlevel bots melt vs a maxed orkan haechi so i'll just blame the mm until i have the maxed bots to really make an analysis if the haechi is op. To be honest yes a full level Haechi will melt bots...however a full level PDB can melt a Haechi.. .the problem is you are never against people with the exact level you are. So my level 9 Haechi with 10/11/10 Orkans will melt 10 and under....if I get surprised by a 12/12 PDB I'm toast if he is half decent. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 12:24:17 GMT -5
Sigh... not this again...
|
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 12:33:25 GMT -5
It's fairly clear that I'm not going to change anyone's mind. All I will say is that all bots can be countered and yes some are more powerful than others but they all have pros and cons...even dash bots...lets face it...most won't even play in champion league and as a result won't see many of these bots. I'm expert 2 and see a dash bot every other game...but when I do it's kumihos or haechis which melt under my fury Zeus. So it's hardly likely that they will spoil your game.
|
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 12:34:05 GMT -5
Sigh... not this again... Not what again? |
|
|
|
Post by CrownBlack on Dec 14, 2017 12:41:00 GMT -5
so true ^^^^^. The tarancilot shied is easily broken. A Zeus Fury breaks it in 3 shots. The Tarancilot is rugged, durable but easily killed if you have decent teammates. FAR from OP. Hit a Haechi with the same Zeus fury 3 times and it's basically dead never mind just getting rid of a shield. I did so twice in a previous game today and YOUR point was the Zeus was useless against the Tarancilot. My point is.....that it is not.
|
|
|
|
Post by iamgoot on Dec 14, 2017 12:57:28 GMT -5
Hit a Haechi with the same Zeus fury 3 times and it's basically dead never mind just getting rid of a shield. I did so twice in a previous game today and YOUR point was the Zeus was useless against the Tarancilot. My point is.....that it is not.
But everyone else's point is that the Haechi is so much better...so for 3 shots the tarancilots take NO damage but the Haechi is all but dead...all I was saying is that the Haechi doesn't need a NERF because it can be killed by many different bots same as everything else. And let's face it...the people wanting to nerf are the ones who don't have the bot...they want it to be no better than silver and gold bots on any way. I hear people on here all the time saying it should lose a dash AND it's energy shield....seriously?  If you want to test on what's more durable have a tarancilot stand at one side of the map and run every type of bot 1 at a time towards it and see how many kill the tarancilot then try and repeat with an Orkans Haechi.. Now the response is "Oh but that's stupid...ypu use cover to get close" uh yep and that's how you kill dash...you use strategy...yes 1v1 at 300 the Haechi wins...open field it gets toasted...wait till it unloads then jump over on rogatka tarans BOOM Haechi is toast this time |
|
|
|
Post by bloodynipples on Dec 14, 2017 13:38:49 GMT -5
What your basically describing is a point and shoot bot, you are totally ignoring skill. A Hechi in the hands of an unskilled player is the superior bot. A skilled pilot can kill at least 3 ancilots. All the faults you describe skill, not the downside of the bot. There is more skill that can be used with the dash bots, which make them even more deadly.
|
|
