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Post by couchtrader on Jan 25, 2017 6:55:09 GMT -5
I like it! I think the new MM would be good if it were applied to different tiers. Bot or weapon level, whichever is higher determines tier level. A 4-6 Mag gep would be thrown in Tier 3 and 4-12 to top. Likewise, 6-5 heavies in tier 3 and so on.
I highly encourage everyone to submit your feedback ( good or bad ) to Pix:
support@wwwrpixonic.zendesk.com
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bearre
Destrier
Posts: 122
Karma: 78
Pilot name: Bearre
Platform: Android
Clan: None
League: Silver
Favorite robot: RDB Griffin
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Post by bearre on Jan 25, 2017 7:03:09 GMT -5
Assigning tiers by level works well in many similar games be it tank battles or space ships,however for that you need to make the weapons equal or lower than the vehicle. If lev 4-6 bots all had level 4-6 weapons then equipment wise it would be an equal field.
The problem was high level players would keep a hanger of low level bots but put maxed weapons in them that new low level players could not yet get. Then they would slaughter the newbies and farm gold for their "great" scores.
If you keep the weapons less than or equal to the bot level this can not happen. A lev 30 can still play with friends in the low levels but he would have to take a low lev bot and low level weapons and play on equal terms.
This also makes logical sense as upgrading weapons would require modifications to the machine in sensors, fire control sysyems, ammo bays, etc. You cant just slap state of the art weapons systems on a primitive machine.
The new mm system is a complex mathematical formula that few fully understand in full, and in my opinion needs a star chart and tarrot deck to actually compute. Originality is good but building a new car doesn't mean you have to reinvent the wheel. The old standard of level based tiers works, in my opinion they should use it or another standard and proven mm method and keep the experimentation and inovation in other areas of the game.
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JstKnwImThad
Destrier
My strawberry yoghurt fills the void in my soul
Posts: 57
Karma: 32
Pilot name: ClMeThad
Platform: iOS
Clan: bMf3
League: Gold
Server Region: Asia
Favorite robot: Galahad
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Post by JstKnwImThad on Jan 25, 2017 7:35:30 GMT -5
I agree, how players are matched should be determined by levels, but not just bot levels. If only bot levels are taken into account, players would easily exploit matchmaking and thus giving clubbers the green light. Imho i prefer matchmaking in the past. A better way to deal with clubbing if I could do it is to just balance the power of clubber bots in lower tiers.
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poisonelf
Destrier
4 fair matches, not what exists today
Posts: 43
Karma: 10
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Post by poisonelf on Jan 25, 2017 8:26:23 GMT -5
These are some good ideas, but Pixonic for months and months have had feedback about max 12's in 4/6 matches. What did they come out with, they now can go in any level matches at will. Instead of even level tiers with something like weapons no higher than 2 or 3 bot size, they through everyone to the max 12's. Granted its not all straight forward simple task, there is many variables, such as matching 3 bot hangers and 5. They made no effort, just looked at nerfing anything that didn't effect max 12.
Exploits are everywhere, and nobody but max 12 is given any love. With most people not max 12, that is alot of hate to a player base. People bought these things to play this game, if it was a Gep, aphids in bronze etc. Apple at least backs up refunds to people a company sells stuff then makes it obsolete. This new MM where players had 4 different tier size hangers, now is obsolete, and people can't play with friends, kids, family members all so level 12 can play any level they feel like.
In a matter of 10 matches or so any player in this game can play bronze/starter level with any hanger 1-12. Whats worse is the max 12's with big bots usually hiding takes several minutes to wipe the full lower level squads, now they exploit low level clans just not dropping and win gold in 15 seconds.
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Post by Conflict's Student on Jan 25, 2017 8:39:39 GMT -5
MM should be based off of the hanger in play, modified by player rating. Player rating should constantly update based on results (which apparently it does now), but so should global ratings for each individual robot and weapon by level.
This would constantly balance shifts in the game "meta" as ratings adapt to players finding success with different setups, constantly leading to competitive matches.
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Post by zman on Jan 25, 2017 10:44:47 GMT -5
They just posted an article explaining the reasons behind the change.
Systems like the ones you are suggesting have massive problems that you guys aren't seeing. Hard shelves lead to exploitation and "clubbing" etc. The new system, once the kinks are ironed out, will be much more granular and effective and providing a quality play experience for everyone. Don't misunderstand me, the current kinks really really suck, but will get better.
Also, Tiers are coming to give us some transparency about where we're playing.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 16:48:21 GMT -5
They just posted an article explaining the reasons behind the change. Systems like the ones you are suggesting have massive problems that you guys aren't seeing. Hard shelves lead to exploitation and "clubbing" etc. The new system, once the kinks are ironed out, will be much more granular and effective and providing a quality play experience for everyone. Don't misunderstand me, the current kinks really really suck, but will get better. Also, Tiers are coming to give us some transparency about where we're playing. We are talking about tiers too. We will see new system in a few weeks. Currently it doesn't count hangar level/strength at all. Today I bought a few cosack and destrier to see what will happen, you can check pictures below. So what if I want to play with good old little robots ? How new system will handle it? Should I play a few weeks with furys to match against destriers? And after this system update of MM, I guess there is no reason categorize robots to heavy- light- or medium. Am I wrong ?
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bearre
Destrier
Posts: 122
Karma: 78
Pilot name: Bearre
Platform: Android
Clan: None
League: Silver
Favorite robot: RDB Griffin
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Post by bearre on Jan 25, 2017 17:15:53 GMT -5
They just posted an article explaining the reasons behind the change. Systems like the ones you are suggesting have massive problems that you guys aren't seeing. Hard shelves lead to exploitation and "clubbing" etc. The new system, once the kinks are ironed out, will be much more granular and effective and providing a quality play experience for everyone. Don't misunderstand me, the current kinks really really suck, but will get better. Also, Tiers are coming to give us some transparency about where we're playing. I already see squads of 2-3 players tanking (0-0-0) thus ruining matches for those trying to win, all to lower their stats so they can exploit weaker opponents. If weapons are equal or lower than bot levels then leveled tiers would be damned close to even. You would be looking at most at a 2-3 level difference to your most unmatched opponent. Not all bots and weapons are equal but a player who chooses wisely deserves the advantage over he who chosses poorly it's not an UNFAIR advantage. What is unfair is subjecting people to grossly uneven contests against bots and or weapons much higher than their own. The old system did that (4/12 geopards) and the examples of the new system doing that are everywhere. Even if the system "settled down" no one has yet mentioned a plan for dealing with those already tanking games to exploit the system you claim is so much harder to exploit.
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Post by zman on Jan 25, 2017 17:21:34 GMT -5
They just posted an article explaining the reasons behind the change. Systems like the ones you are suggesting have massive problems that you guys aren't seeing. Hard shelves lead to exploitation and "clubbing" etc. The new system, once the kinks are ironed out, will be much more granular and effective and providing a quality play experience for everyone. Don't misunderstand me, the current kinks really really suck, but will get better. Also, Tiers are coming to give us some transparency about where we're playing. We are talking about tiers too. We will see new system in a few weeks. Currently it doesn't count hangar level/strength at all. Today I bought a few cosack and destrier to see what will happen, you can check pictures below. So what if I want to play with good old little robots ? How new system will handle it? Should I play a few weeks with furys to match against destriers? And after this system update of MM, I guess there is no reason categorize robots to heavy- light- or medium. Am I wrong ? Actually hanger strength does matter and I can prove it. But, it is entirely possible to tank your Elo by throwing matches and club the uprise which makes hanger strength for the seals irrelevant. Now, you bought freshly minted 1/1 lights! Fun! And your competition didn't change! 「whiskey tango foxtrot」?!!! Yep, I've wrote about this before, basically there is a weird thing where the MM treats high level pilots who fild 1/1 and pits them against opposition as if they were running their strongest hanger. I can't explain it, probably some attempt at protection the low levels and newbies from the big back lvl 30s. Now, if you field a higher level bot, say a H6/6 you'll notice the MM making adjustments for hanger strength. I don't know where they wall or shelf starts, but there are reports of lvl 4 bots being treated correctly. They just posted an article explaining the reasons behind the change. Systems like the ones you are suggesting have massive problems that you guys aren't seeing. Hard shelves lead to exploitation and "clubbing" etc. The new system, once the kinks are ironed out, will be much more granular and effective and providing a quality play experience for everyone. Don't misunderstand me, the current kinks really really suck, but will get better. Also, Tiers are coming to give us some transparency about where we're playing. I already see squads of 2-3 players tanking (0-0-0) thus ruining matches for those trying to win, all to lower their stars so they can exploit weaker opponents. If weapons are equal or lower than bot levels then leveled tiers would be damned close to even. You would be looking at most at a 2-3 level difference to your most unmatched opponent. Not all bots and weapons are equal but a player who chooses wisely deserves the advantage over he who chosses poorly it's not an UNFAIR advantage. What is unfair is subjecting people to grossly uneven contests against bots and or weapons much higher than their own. The old system did that (4/12 geopards) and the examples of the new system doing that are everywhere. Even if the system "settled down" no one has yet mentioned a plan for dealing with those already tanking games to exploit the system you claim is so much harder to exploit. Yes, I am well aware that there are 「bum-bum chapeau」s that are abusing the Elo system by tanking their elo and clubing the upswing and it is a nightmare for actually calming the MM down. Pix is aware of it and will roll out a fix at some point. If people actually play the game and stop trying to abuse it the new MM will start to feel much better than the old.
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bearre
Destrier
Posts: 122
Karma: 78
Pilot name: Bearre
Platform: Android
Clan: None
League: Silver
Favorite robot: RDB Griffin
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Post by bearre on Jan 25, 2017 17:35:17 GMT -5
The problem is people will NOT stop trying to abuse this or any system. If people were enmass willing to compete honerably in equal competition then the old system would have been fine.
Even at the cost of less player flexibility the system has to force people into competing in controlled levels/tiers with strict limits in what they can use. It's sad but there are just too many people who are willing to exploit others for their own gain even in something as trivial as a game.
I wish people would just play and enjoy friendly competitive even matches then we wouldn't be having this discussion
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 25, 2017 17:46:13 GMT -5
From what I see, while a few are happy with new MM, most not happy. (I just checked Facebook ) Others have already made the majority of my counterpoints. I have but one protest. What you see on Facebook is what people are willing to make an effort to post, but this NEVER reflects the total opinion of an entire group. Negative experiences tend to drive humans to take action, even if that only action is to complain about it. Not a lot of humans bother to make the effort to create a post that says "I'm fine and everything is OK for me." Please don't take ANYTHING you see on Facebook as proof of anything else.
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Post by SawedOff on Jan 25, 2017 17:49:04 GMT -5
Pixonic issued a statement, not an explanation. Their statement was "you're too dumb to understand how difficult it is to balance the game (easily disproved if they looked at these forums) and we're going to find a way to make you pay (so you can have a max hangar or buy stalkers or whatever) and we don't care about the casual player, people that play with their kids,clans trying to help low level members, or new people learning the game. If you're not running a max hangar, screw you" signed, Pixonic developers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 17:50:48 GMT -5
Now, you bought freshly minted 1/1 lights! Fun! And your competition didn't change! W**?!!! Yep, I've wrote about this before, basically there is a weird thing where the MM treats high level pilots who fild 1/1 and pits them against opposition as if they were running their strongest hanger. I can't explain it, probably some attempt at protection the low levels and newbies from the big back lvl 30s. So with new MM, I am level 30, if I want to play with destriers I will face with furys? Fury will win all the gold? Protecting newbies from me? Why protection if we have the same weapon? So if we wanna play with destriers we should open a new account? So who will protect us from furys or galahads or lancelots with orkans tridents at level 12??
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 25, 2017 17:54:10 GMT -5
Pixonic issued a statement, not an explanation. Their statement was "you're too dumb to understand how difficult it is to balance the game (easily disproved if they looked at these forums) and we're going to find a way to make you pay (so you can have a max hangar or buy stalkers or whatever) and we don't care about the casual player, people that play with their kids,clans trying to help low level members, or new people learning the game. If you're not running a max hangar, screw you" signed, Pixonic developers. There's one of the Facebook People now! Way to have the absolute worst possible attitude, next you'll be declaring that you are going to refund all your purchases and stop playing because Pixonic doesn't care, am I right? Criticism is fine, but please make it constructive, mmmkay? You are just complaining in a passive/aggressive way, and there is plenty of room on Pixo's Facebook page for you to join in that chorus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 17:55:47 GMT -5
Pixonic issued a statement, not an explanation. Their statement was "you're too dumb to understand how difficult it is to balance the game (easily disproved if they looked at these forums) and we're going to find a way to make you pay (so you can have a max hangar or buy stalkers or whatever) and we don't care about the casual player, people that play with their kids,clans trying to help low level members, or new people learning the game. If you're not running a max hangar, scr*w you" signed, Pixonic developers. That's also what I understand from zman's posts.
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Post by SawedOff on Jan 25, 2017 17:58:54 GMT -5
TPosted by Dæmon L?l?th: there's one of the Facebook People now! Way to have the absolute worst possible attitude, next you'll be declaring that you are going to refund all your purchases and stop playing because Pixonic doesn't care, am I right? Criticism is fine, but please make it constructive, mmmkay? You are just complaining in a passive/aggressive way, and there is plenty of room on Pixo's Facebook page for you to join in that chorus.
You can shove your condescending passive-aggressive BS up your backside. Mmmkay?
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bearre
Destrier
Posts: 122
Karma: 78
Pilot name: Bearre
Platform: Android
Clan: None
League: Silver
Favorite robot: RDB Griffin
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Post by bearre on Jan 25, 2017 17:59:12 GMT -5
As I don't want to see this locked guys please try to offer alternative solutions and not just blast the new system or Pix. Yes the new system is painful at least so far for me,and even if it gets better it already has people exploiting it. So what are some reasonable alternatives that could work better and or be less susceptible to exploitation?
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 25, 2017 18:04:11 GMT -5
Now, you bought freshly minted 1/1 lights! Fun! And your competition didn't change! W**?!!! Yep, I've wrote about this before, basically there is a weird thing where the MM treats high level pilots who fild 1/1 and pits them against opposition as if they were running their strongest hanger. I can't explain it, probably some attempt at protection the low levels and newbies from the big back lvl 30s. So with new MM, I am level 30, if I want to play with destriers I will face with furys? Yes, you will face hangars with strength equal to the highest weapon level you currently own. according to recent anecdotal reports.Fury will win all the gold? Yes. A level 1 bot with level 1 guns does not stand a chance against anything except another rookie bot.Protecting newbies from me? Yes, new players should not be facing level 30 players.Why protection if we have the same weapon? Because otherwise people like you insist on abusing the system.So if we wanna play with destriers we should open a new account? Yes. If you want to return to the "Rookie tiers", you will need a rookie account.So who will protect us from furys or galahads or lancelots with orkans tridents at level 12?? You will, by building a better hanger without relying on manipulating the system to your advantage.Please have a F.I.N.E. day. Thank you.
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Post by zman on Jan 25, 2017 18:08:02 GMT -5
Now, you bought freshly minted 1/1 lights! Fun! And your competition didn't change! W**?!!! Yep, I've wrote about this before, basically there is a weird thing where the MM treats high level pilots who fild 1/1 and pits them against opposition as if they were running their strongest hanger. I can't explain it, probably some attempt at protection the low levels and newbies from the big back lvl 30s. So with new MM, I am level 30, if I want to play with destriers I will face with furys? Fury will win all the gold? Protecting newbies from me? Why protection if we have the same weapon? So if we wanna play with destriers we should open a new account? So who will protect us from furys or galahads or lancelots with orkans tridents at level 12?? If you want to run Destriers, level them up to four or five or six and have at it! But, at level 30 you are not allowed to run lvl 1 Destriers. This may change when Tiers come out, but right now there is a gateway to hell that opens when a level 30 pilot equips a hanger full of lvl1 bots.
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Post by zman on Jan 25, 2017 18:13:52 GMT -5
What I do not understand is what's the problem with level of players? I have been playing Counter Strike for years, say I am the highest level, they didn't tell me you are too experienced you can't play with newbies! This is ridiculous. If we have the same weapons everybody is the same. You are high level if you wanna play with destriers you will get level 12 trident furys lancelots level 12 with orkans. That's very fair I guess. Thanks Because they do not want level 30 player clubbing the newbies who don't even know what the color changing beams of light are. They assume no one that has played the game enough to get to level 30 should ever be running a level 1 hanger. Here is the simple solution, take the couple hours it'll take and level your Destriers to level 4 or 5 or 6, equip weapons appropriate for those levels and enter the fray. You should have decent games, especially when the MM quiets down. But, if you are skilled you'll likely be facing only opposition that is stronger than lvl 4/5/6, probably Mediums in the 5/6 range etc. But, since you are level 30 and skilled it'll be appropriate competition for you.
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Post by SawedOff on Jan 25, 2017 18:14:38 GMT -5
So with new MM, I am level 30, if I want to play with destriers I will face with furys? Fury will win all the gold? Protecting newbies from me? Why protection if we have the same weapon? So if we wanna play with destriers we should open a new account? So who will protect us from furys or galahads or lancelots with orkans tridents at level 12?? If you want to run Destriers, level them up to four or five or six and have at it! But, at level 30 you are not allowed to run lvl 1 Destriers. This may change when Tiers come out, but right now there is a gateway to hell that opens when a level 30 pilot equips a hanger full of lvl1 bots. If I'm level 30 and running 1/1 bots who is that protecting to throw me up against a maxed out hangar?
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Post by zman on Jan 25, 2017 18:17:32 GMT -5
If you want to run Destriers, level them up to four or five or six and have at it! But, at level 30 you are not allowed to run lvl 1 Destriers. This may change when Tiers come out, but right now there is a gateway to hell that opens when a level 30 pilot equips a hanger full of lvl1 bots. If I'm level 30 and running 1/1 bots who is that protecting to throw me up against a maxed out hangar? Its protecting the lvl1/2 bots piloted by pilots lvls 1-5 from being matched with someone with a massive experience advantage. I didn't say it was a great way of protecting rookies, but it is real, and intentional by Pix.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 18:19:31 GMT -5
So with new MM, I am level 30, if I want to play with destriers I will face with furys? Yes, you will face hangars with strength equal to the highest weapon level you currently own. according to recent anecdotal reports.Fury will win all the gold? Yes. A level 1 bot with level 1 guns does not stand a chance against anything except another rookie bot.Protecting newbies from me? Yes, new players should not be facing level 30 players.Why protection if we have the same weapon? Because otherwise people like you insist on abusing the system.So if we wanna play with destriers we should open a new account? Yes. If you want to return to the "Rookie tiers", you will need a rookie account.So who will protect us from furys or galahads or lancelots with orkans tridents at level 12?? You will, by building a better hanger without relying on manipulating the system to your advantage.Please have a F.I.N.E. day. Thank you. Here comes the accusations! I am abusing system? Manipulating system? Did you read the whole thread? Am I talking with bunch of kids?
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 25, 2017 18:20:25 GMT -5
Give a level 1 player a maxed out Triple Trident Fury and watch him fail miserably. Give the same 3T-Fury to a level 30 player and he will do some real damage. There is a HUGE difference in experience and knowledge of the game that you are REFUSING to acknowledge. In addition, at level 30 you have had access to Gold and WSP equipment for more than 20 levels worth of playing, so no matter what your stated intentions, allowing level 30 players to run level 1 bots is just asking for cheating, and somebody will do it, even if that's not you personally.
When I first started playing War Robots, I had a massive experience advantage because I know what CTF means. Unlike 99% of the rookies I slaughtered going from level 1 to level 10, I understood that you have to capture beacons to win the match, and that my weapons had varying ranges. When I started a new account on iOS after months of playing on Android, I roflstomped EVERYTHING in rookie tier until I could upgrade enough to escape it.
Your insistence on entitlement to use your advanced knowledge and experience against lower level players proves that you have the same mentality as all the cheating former clubbers, and you don't deserve to play this game anymore. The rules have changed, now 「dookie」 or get off the pot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 18:22:54 GMT -5
What I do not understand is what's the problem with level of players? I have been playing Counter Strike for years, say I am the highest level, they didn't tell me you are too experienced you can't play with newbies! This is ridiculous. If we have the same weapons everybody is the same. You are high level if you wanna play with destriers you will get level 12 trident furys lancelots level 12 with orkans. That's very fair I guess. Thanks Because they do not want level 30 player clubbing the newbies who don't even know what the color changing beams of light are. They assume no one that has played the game enough to get to level 30 should ever be running a level 1 hanger. Here is the simple solution, take the couple hours it'll take and level your Destriers to level 4 or 5 or 6, equip weapons appropriate for those levels and enter the fray. You should have decent games, especially when the MM quiets down. But, if you are skilled you'll likely be facing only opposition that is stronger than lvl 4/5/6, probably Mediums in the 5/6 range etc. But, since you are level 30 and skilled it'll be appropriate competition for you. Destrier was an example. I hope you can understand what I am trying to tell here. I suggest you guys read whole thread first.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 18:23:24 GMT -5
The question you should be asking is, "How will Pixonic protect the maxed out hangar guys from me!" Then run at them with your 1/1 punisher clad rooster-bot!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 18:25:12 GMT -5
Give a level 1 player a maxed out Triple Trident Fury and watch him fail miserably. Give the same 3T-Fury to a level 30 player and he will do some real damage. There is a HUGE difference in experience and knowledge of the game that you are REFUSING to acknowledge. In addition, at level 30 you have had access to Gold and WSP equipment for more than 20 levels worth of playing, so no matter what your stated intentions, allowing level 30 players to run level 1 bots is just asking for cheating, and somebody will do it, even if that's not you personally. When I first started playing War Robots, I had a massive experience advantage because I know what CTF means. Unlike 99% of the rookies I slaughtered going from level 1 to level 10, I understood that you have to capture beacons to win the match, and that my weapons had varying ranges. When I started a new account on iOS after months of playing on Android, I roflstomped EVERYTHING in rookie tier until I could upgrade enough to escape it. Your insistence on entitlement to use your advanced knowledge and experience against lower level players proves that you have the same mentality as all the cheating former clubbers, and you don't deserve to play this game anymore. The rules have changed, now ?poo-poo? or get off the pot. Kiddo read the whole thread I didn't say I wanna run level 1 bots. It was an example.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 18:26:42 GMT -5
The question you should be asking is, "How will Pixonic protect the maxed out hangar guys from me!" Then run at them with your 1/1 punisher clad rooster-bot! +1
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 18:35:28 GMT -5
If I'm level 30 and running 1/1 bots who is that protecting to throw me up against a maxed out hangar? Its protecting the lvl1/2 bots piloted by pilots lvls 1-5 from being matched with someone with a massive experience advantage. I didn't say it was a great way of protecting rookies, but it is real, and intentional by Pix. If you wanna protect level 1-5 newbies, you would match level 1-5 to "level 1-5" players! That's easy! So when I wanna play destriers (it's an example kids) then I play destriers with level 30 players! Im ok if MM match me level 30 players with same weapon strengths! That's all! Good day all!
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Post by Divine Thunder on Jan 25, 2017 18:35:46 GMT -5
Hm,
so far no thresholds have been crossed. However, there seems to be some heat building in this thread. Please take the advice of one of you co-posters and stay with the subject. Matchmaking needs to be discussed since it is the third team in this game. But let us not resort to name calling or other personal accusations. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, regardless of our opinion. Let them express them but express them in a respectful manner.
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